Why do psychopaths go after what they want regardless of the negative consequences they may experience? According to the journal Nature Neuroscience, the answer may be chemical—an overactive dopamine reward system.
Read Driven toward reward without regard for consequence on Time.com.
Read the scientific study, Mesolimbic dopamine reward system hypersensitivity in individuals with psychopathic traits, in Nature Neuroscience.
Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader via Facebook.
Our Family Wizard can help you co-parent with a sociopath
kim – ‘I need help to find the courage, desire, ambition, to go into the world again, after my last devistating relationship, and 2.5 years of insulated isolation. I DON”T WANT TO GO.
I’m scared and I’m kicking and screaming and even angry”
acting spathy. I don’t want to act spathy. I need some help’
this is so beautiful; you so want the healing. 🙂
all BEST to you kim – just the way you are…a harmed warrior for healing.
one step
Dear Kim,
Remember back when you were scared chitless to go into the world and the “friends” you had then that you kept enabling, and couldn’t say “no” to—and how in a panic you were?
Those days are GONE Kim, you are NOT the same struggling person in a panic now, YOU ARE STRONGER, WISER, AND READY FOR A NEW CHALLENGE going toward healing.
Yes, you might be ready to go back into therapy, because when you were in therapy before you weren’t ready to hear the messages it gave you, but NOW you have taken in those messages, and made them your own. Still, like the rest of us,, NOT PERFECT, but who gives a rat’s big booty if you are perfect or not, I don’t, do YOU? I hope not!
Kim everyoone here on this web site has made some BIGGGGG blunders of decisions, you do NOT hold a patent on making BIGGGG BOOO BOOOS. You and I are among some great, smart, cultured and educated men and women here who have really screwed up big time. We (all of us) do not have a patent on being “stoooopid”or doing things that “ruined” our lives.
It was a good thing to have some “down time” living with your daughter and being her “househhold help” for a while, and having time and less stress to work through some of the issues and problems you had, but you’ve got that beaten down now, KIM—I know it is scary to get back out there, damn scary, but I can see how you have GROWN while you have been here at LF, I can see how HARD YOU HAVE WORKED to quiet those demons, to keep them under control and to work on he “new and improved” version of Kim, the same way I have worked on the “new and improved” Oxy—
Hang in there Kim, and TOWANDA!!!!! For you!!!!
I just wanted to toss out my two cents for what its worth, and its late so hopefully I don’t ramble to much.
Just because some won’t change or don’t change does not equate to can’t change. Along those same lines treatment may make some worse but it does not follow that it makes all worse. I agree with Oxy in that there are some that absolutely won’t change.
So many are looking for the “nature” or “nurture” piece so they can have something clean and easy to point to and say this is what makes them different. But things are often very complex and it is both nature and nurture combined with a 3rd piece that often can over ride those two and that piece is choice. Just yesterday a new piece of research came out about what makes us all unique (genetics). They:
have found that we differ from each other mainly because of differences not in our genes, but in how they’re regulated ”“ turned on or off, for instance.
The scientists found that even if different people have identical copies of a gene ”“ for instance ORMDL3, a gene known to be involved in asthma in children ”“ the way their cells regulate that gene can vary from person to person.
This is just another piece piled on to the growing theory. To quote another previous study:
“An appreciation of the idea that differences in gene expression can occur over vastly different time scales helps understand some of the complex relationships between genes, brain and behavior,” Robinson said.
The picture that is emerging from these and other studies suggests that social signals can have a profound effect on when and how genes function.
An organism’s genes, its environment, the social information it receives, “all these things interact,” said Clayton. “Experience is constantly coming back in to the level of the DNA and twiddling the dials and the knobs.”
So it is probably not just one thing, though it would be nice if it was. It is a combination of many things all together.
Hey, BloggerT, long time no see! Glad to have you chime in with your reasonable, rational and scientific mind to counter my rantings! LOL
And, I think you are right of course! Genetics, environment and the TIMING of events in environment are all critical. While there are usually great similarities in idential twins, raised apart, they are however NOT 100%, as long term studies of these children have shown. They have identical DNA (the only detectable differences are finger prints) but the environments in which they are reared are different, have different things happen at different times, and supposedly there is a 50%-80% correlation between them in, if one is a Psychopath, the other is. But since “being a P” is not a Yes or No question, like some things, and instead is a SCALE of behaviors and traits, it would be intrersting to know, point for point, how these children with identical DNA fare in different environments.
Even children sharing a womb before birth have NON-identical environments since it is quite common for one twin (even identical twins) to get a greater or lesser “share” of the food available there by where or how the placenta is placed, and there is often a fairly large (percentage wise) difference in sizes of twins due to this difference in the environment of the womb.
There is no way possible to have totally identical environments past the moment of conception, though there are ways that DNA can be manipulated. They are already doing that in research on cattle by making one egg split into 8 embryos which are then emplanted into 8 different cows, so those DNA-identical calves can be raised in different environments to see how those environments influence feed conversion, growth and maturity rates, milk production and fertility, etc. Over the centuries people have selectively “bred” for different characteristics in animals, which is called developing a “BREED” from dogs to horses and cattle with the selection criteria being different for different purposes.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, which ever way you look at it, humans have not generally “selectively” bred themselves, unless you do find the odd culture or race here or there, like the Spartans or the Nazis, who did or tried to do this “selective breeding” with humans. But in many instances children who were not “perfect” were less likely to survive because resources to keep them alive were not available.
Children who were “uncontrolable” in The Biblical times of the Jewish Law of Moses could be brought before the rulers by their parents and if found uncontrolable could be put to death. I think this would have solved some problems for a few families today, but I’m not sure that law was actually enforced even then, even if it was “on the books.” I can’t imagine myself taking my son at age 17 to be stoned by my neighbors….in retrospect, I would have wished I would have done so, but at the time it would have been unthinkable.
Many breeds of domestic animals have had “aggression” bred out of them so that theyy became safer for their owners to deal with, but humans have actually, I think, had aggression reinforced in the genetics because in many cases, the more aggressive gets the resources and if there is a shortage of resources, the less aggressive starves and suffers a loss of reproductive powers vs. the more aggressive.
Too much aggression though, and the community would likely “team up against” the abusive aggressor and eliminate him, thus decreasing his reproductive powers. So there has to be a balance between aggression and cooperation but on the whole, I think the psychopath who is higher in cooperation (apparent cooperation) but high enough in psychopathic traits to take UNFAIR advantage of the community’s individuals would “win” in the survival game and in the reproduction game by spreading their seed far and wide.
But in terms of selection of the fittest, if every human was a psychopath and there were no potential victims to feed them, where would the species as a whole be?
So I think in the meantime, since we can’t most likely change the outcome of genetics entirely at least, and over all don’t have a great deal of influence over the micro-environments of the child’s home, maybe we should concentrate on empowering the victims to recognize and flee the predators among us.
Oxy, exactly. I think we women tend to be attracted to powerful and self-confidant men, and if we don’t take the time to really get to know them, and jump right in with both feet, we may have “selected for psychopathy”
Especially with the charm and love-bombing they do.
Yea, in many species the females are attracted to the most aggressive or strongest male in the competition. There has also been some studies done on WHY certain women are more attractive to men than others, because of the “reproductive” potential that is indicated by certain body shapes, etc. That’s also why younger women are more attractive to males than us “more mature” women. It is programmed into the species, pick physically healthy young partners who will give you a better chance of viable offspring. For the female she bonds to the male (even in normal females we tend to bond more than males do through sexual contact) so he will hang around to help feed her during the gestation, and she gives him sex all through the month not just when she is fertile to keep him around, and he sneaks around in the cave and has sex with other women as well, (multiple partners assures more offspring for the male) so he beats the other men into submission so they have no partners and he has multiples, etc.
Dr. Leedom said one study of kids born in public housing in England, that 25% of them were sired by known psychopaths. We all know that many if not most of the P males we know are very promiscious and many have multiple kids by multiple women moving on to new women and more kids, leaving behind the old relationships and women and kids to fend for themselves. Unlike in the cave-dwelling days though, a woman today can provide for her child and she and her baby will not die of starvation because he moved on, or she failed to adapt to a multiple-wife harem.
I think the Biblical story of Abraham and his wife Sarah, who because she was barren gave Abraham her maid Hagar to have a child for her husband, which the maid did. Then, when Sarah had her own son, 12 or 13 years later, she wanted Hagar and HER son thrown out into the desert. Since she was the WIFE and actually owned Hagar (and therefore the son as well) she had Abraham put them out into the desert, where they would have died had not God in the story intervened. Abraham actually did it reluctantly, but Sarah did this out of jealousy, and probably had a pretty good idea what the result would have been of Hagar being put out of the camp in the middle of no-where in the desert.
Hagar had actually gotten to the point that she lay down where she could not see her son dying because it was so painful for her to observe his death.
In the story, Hagar and her son were both saved from death, and the story concludes with Hagar’s son’s descendants becoming a great nation. I wonder though if Sarah and Abraham and their son every knew what happened to the woman and her son.
Was Sarah a psychopath? Not sure, of course, but this was a pretty cold-hearted thing for her to do, but in those days the culture was a bit different than it is SUPPOSED TO BE now.
Thank you Oxy. I try to drop by from time to time. Here is another article you and others might like:
Controversially, and for the first time in the US, the court was permitted to see evidence from functional brain scans from neuroscientist Kent Kiehl related to Dugan’s diagnosis of psychopathy. – http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/full/464340a.html
midlifecrisis
Thanks for a wonderful uplifting post.
I was sick after the rack of lamb and vow never to eat a baby again. I I could taste the sad unlived life in the meat and it made me hurl..the sheep in the slaughter truck..it’s appalling, it’s horrific. I would rather be with that sheep, die like the sheep than to ignore it, of course I can see how cruel it is. never aplogise for inspiring kindess to the planet and all sentient beings.
Oxy
finding it hard to hear about experiments on rats, punishing them with electric shocks etc. We are talking about human beings. I have never met a psychopathic rat. Traumatising animals until they become crazy and aggressive equals misery to me. I know it goes on, but it is unacceptable to me on any level. bullfighting, breeding…
like the animals have no soul?, no reason other than to be manipulated by us. WHO ARE WE TO ASSUME THAT IT’S RIGHT?
Thanks Midlife
Up late tonight, too much coffee today!
I was thinking of asking you the same thing, so that’s cool. Would be awesome to have a localish lovefraud buddy.
beanie.corp@hotmail.com
Will delete that once you’ve seen it.
Thanks Bulletproof – I have actually been listening to a song today with that very title – look it up on Youtube! It’s great for us thinking of getting back into dating again after the horrible experience with the PSYCHOPATHS – the lyrics are especially apt.
This vegan path is MY path and I recognise it isn’t for everyone, but I can say it has made me view the world in a different way spiritually and it has brought me some healing and tenderness I couldn’t access before in the state I was left after the PSYCHOPATH. I do see some sense in the Hindu (?) belief of reincarnation and often think to myself – next life I could come back as a dog – how would I want to be treated? So how do I treat this dog who I am priviledged to have live with me in my life? I hate the idea of ‘ownership’ of animals – I don’t own them I am just fortunate to have them in my life.
ONE STEP – what beauty and pain in what you wrote. Longing and yearning for something better. I can feel what you are feeling and I understand what you wrote about looking at the world differently now and the people within it you encounter. I sometimes look at people going about their lives – shopping and socialising and having fun and think :
“How lucky are you all to live in the ignorance that evil stalks the earth in human form? How could you live with the knowledge I have? That there are demons amongst us that blend in and look like anyone else?”
Having this experience totally changes your worldview -we are all fortunate indeed to have survived it – survival and thriving is testament to our strength and it’s not a linear climb upwards. There are valleys of doubt and despair on the way upwards and who knows where we will end up? We probably won’t ever be the same as we were, but we can only keep on reaching upwards.
I know that feeling of not wanting to move on. I am feeling it myself and am being gentle for now with myself about it. But every now and then I have to give myself a kick up the ass … it’s hard. I am left with lots of pain and emotional baggage – how do I explain the past ten years to a new partner? When is the appropriate time to display my scars and explain why I am likely to sabotage and want to run away? How do I get rid of the shame I am feeling?
There are no easy answers to any of this – just taking it one step at a time as your name says seems to be the best way. I believe we will all make it through and you’re so right that being able to come here and be real in all our shame and pain helps immensely. Just expressing what is boiling in our hearts often dissipates the horrid energy and allows it the voice it seeks – it can then remove the strangehold it has on our souls.
Just remember we have all survived a horrific experience – one that stalked our souls, targetted us as victims to be manipulated and reduced us from full and beautiful people to objects of supply for another. It totally changed our view of the world and of humans and relationships and exposed us to evil that we previously had not encountered in its raw form. There are bound to be long term consequences from it – most of us are not in active therapy at the moment and are guiding ourselves through this journey of healing – it has twists and turns and sometimes we can’t even see the path ahead. We just have to keep on walking and TRUST that around the next bend is a beautiful spot or a small bench to rest and reflect on or a waterfall from which we can quench our thirst.
One Step – I am sorry you are in so much pain right now. It was palpable from your words and I wish I could ease some of it for you today. It sucks what that woman did to you – she should be jailed for the rest of her life at a minimum.