Why do psychopaths go after what they want regardless of the negative consequences they may experience? According to the journal Nature Neuroscience, the answer may be chemical—an overactive dopamine reward system.
Read Driven toward reward without regard for consequence on Time.com.
Read the scientific study, Mesolimbic dopamine reward system hypersensitivity in individuals with psychopathic traits, in Nature Neuroscience.
Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader via Facebook.
Our Family Wizard can help you co-parent with a sociopath
Sister-sister, Chrissy would probably benefit from attending a 12-step recovery group like Alanon, or Coda. You could offer to attend a few open meeting with her to get her aquanted with the idea. All and all though, she has to chose for herself. As much as you might care about her, you can’t fix her. She has to be willing. 12- step groups answer the question, “HOW?” with the answer, “honesty, openness and willingness. If she can manage to get a hold of those basics, she can change her life… 🙂
Dear Sistersister,
Once I went to visit Uncle Monster in a VA alcohol rehab (I had driven my grandparents to see him) and part of the thing was that The FAMILY had to attend a “group session” in order to be able to visit with their fammily member who was an inpatient in the VA Alcohol Rehab.
I had NO idea at the time what “alcoholic” was vs. “drunk” or anything at all about family dynamics etc. but in this “group” setting I learned something that didn’t even REGISTER WITH ME until years later when I was in nursing school and we were studying FAMILY ROLE THERORY.
Any family, especially dysfunctional ones, has DESIGNATED roles for each member to play. In fact, in some families there is a child who is expected to play the role of “family scape goat” and in the OPEN the role is “well, we would be doing fine if it wasn’t for Johnny’s drinking/drugging etc” but in fact, what the family SECRETLY SAYS TO JOHNNY is “Keep on drinking so we can blame all the family’s problems on you!”
IF, God forbid, JOHNNY ACTUALLY WERE TO GO TO A PROGRAM and get sober, the FAMILY would crumble—there would be NO one to blame things jon, so if he starts to “improve” they subtly or not so subtly push him back into the drinking and when he replases and things go back to NORMAL everyone sighs with relief that the family is OK!
This is so ingrained in some families that if the scape goat dies, one of the other children will be “appointed” to that role and will start to drink or drug, or fail in school, etc.
As long as the family KNOWS WHAT TO EXPECT OUT OF LIFE, and things go according to that SCRIPT then everything is “safe”—as crazy as that sounds.
In my family, the oldest of the family women had to be the “peace maker” and that was PEACE AT ANY PRICE, and to keep the family secrets and enable the family bad boy.
I saw my egg donor’s role change the week my grandmother died, and she assumed almost a DIFFERENT “personality” (she had intermittently this “sweetness” about her that my grandmother did (although she would retain her feelings of being justified in PUNISHING anyone who didn’t conform to the assigned roles.
After my step dad died, she started to “groom” me to take over this role when she died, and I rebelled at doing that and then she started to GET FRANTIC that there would be no one to assume the role (I am an only child) so she started to groom my DIL for this role. Even though she really didn’t like or trust the DIL from the time C brought her into our family.
Then when the DIL and the Trojan Horse P betrayed her, she was SOME KIND OF PISSED, but over the next 12 months she started doing some hard core pushing to get me ready to assume the role when she died. When that didn’t work, she about “lost it” with anger, rage and the INSECURITY of not knowing what would happen to the family bad boy when she was gone. All HELL was breaking loose and I was NOT GOING ALONG WITH THE SCRIPT. Even with punishment it wasn’t working and her ANXIETY was out the roof because things were not going according to the SCRIPT laid down.
My adoptive son D and I were talking today about how the things we expereince as a child still effect us as adults. He just becomes VERY anxious during loud arguments or outbursts of any kind, no matter how “justified” they might be because he still remembers being a little boy huddling under the stair way while Daddy is tossing pianos and tables around the house.
I have a “problem” (I get anxious) with passive-aggressive behavior or what I call “quiet fits,” where someone is mad as hell, and you know it, but they are masking it behind a smile and kind, soft words.
Why are we effected by different things like this? Of course it is because we LEARNED to be afraid and/or anxious when we perceived that “all hell was breaking loose” either quietly or loudly.
This young woman has learned in her family how to COPE with whatever is going on in her family dynamics that allows her to decrease her anxiety by KNOWING what is going to happen. It isn’t about it being good or bad, or nice or terrible, but about DECREASING the anxiety of NOT KNOWING WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
If she acts A then she knows B will happen. If she acts X, she has NO idea what will happen and it makes her anxious and scared to even try to act X—better the known devil than the unknown one.
She has learned to cope in a CRAZY house, and has no idea how to cope in a house that doesn’t function like hers does, and atr 19 she still thinks that her house is the way the world is. It may not be comfortable but she learned early on that trying to be DIFFERENT got her punished and made her afraid and anxious.
Until she learns that there are other POSSIBLE WAYS, she will go on repeating the same behaviors because she is afraid to try something else because at this time, she sees no benefit in trying.
I’m not saying there is “no hope” for her, but it is up to her to WANT to change, and change causes anxiety and uncertainty and that’s not easy to deal with.
The most SECURE man in the world is the guy on death row who knows he has NO appeal, and he knows what his last meal will be and when ,and how he will die. He knows that nothing he does can change this. He waits. He doesn’t have to make any decisions, so there is no anxiety about making the right or wrong one.
The more “freedom” to choose we have, the less “secure” we are, but to me that freedom is worth the anxiety of making decisions and hoping we made the right one, or the best one.
Some people you can help, and some people you can’t. All you can do is to give someone an opportunity to help themselves, really. If they take advantage of it, find, if not, don’t feel any guilt about it, you did the best you could to facilitate them helping themselves. We DON’T however, owe anyone a free ride on our backs unless that person is a tiny infant that we are responsible for taking care of.
I so agree with you above post, Oxy. In fact, a lot of times it’s the family member that acts out the most; the one who ends up in therapy/treatment first, that is the healthiest one in the group….at least they’re asking for help, not hiding the family secret, and climbing out of denial.
Oxy, have you read Falkners, “As I Lay Dying”? I read it years ago in college, and I thought it was an excellant literary example of these ideas. I might have to read it again.
The unspoken rules for people who come from dysfunctional families are: 1. Don’t talk; 2. Don’t trust; 3. Don’t feel.
The absolute biggest sin against the family is to get honest about it! Pretty scarey stuff for someone who hasn’t learned any other way to be.
Dear Kim,
Ah, yes, the old rules of “don’t talk, don’t trust and don’t feel” I know them well! LOL Unfortunately.
I don’t remember reading it, but I will see about reading it. I was a chemistry major so just took the required amount of lit classes, though I have always been a big reader, my reading wasn’t “guided” by much except my own interests so I missed a lot of good stuff.
The perfect example, I think, of the punishment of the person in the family who wants to get “healthy” is my egg donor’s anger at me and her feelings of justification in doing whatever she can to make me come back and tow the family line!
I jguess at 63 I am finally becoming the family REBEL! LOL just like I should have done as a teenager! 🙂
I agree, Oxy. You described Chrissy’s world quite well.
And Kim, yes, I have suggested — and listed — support groups and even bought her “Codependent No More.” She loved the book. She called me up and said it all happened just like in the book when she told them she was moving out! And then she dropped out of high school. I don’t think the two are unconnected.
She’s scared. The unknown is extremely frightening, even though I told her I would be there for her no matter what — but “no matter what” doesn’t include not meeting my conditions. She has to hold up her end, and lying about quitting school is clearly not that.
My conditions are:
Go back to school in some way. (If she learns to cut hair or fix cars I’m fine.)
Attend at least one support group.
At least making moves toward moving farther out of her family’s orbit (and no, not moving in with me).
And these are subject to verification.
Now who’s the controlling one? LOL. I’m kind of comfortable with the controller role, though, as long as I understand that it’s open ended: Success is not the point. Doing the right thing, to the best of my ability, is.
The point is, she gets something when I get something.
I just would like to know what kinds of programs might be available for a young woman in New York City to move into a supportive, semi-independent living situation.
Dear sistersister,
Well, I’m kind of the same way—the “controler”—in that my “help” is conditional on YOU making the effort to help yourself. LOL
I really had decided my son C was “helping” himself, until he lied to me in late December, and BOINK! It hit me between the eyes like a cast iron skillet and sent me reeling! HE WAS LYING TO ME!!!! Sheesh, OUT THE DOOR!!!
Because I had let down my guard and TRUSTED him I got blind sided! I had a lot “invested” in his success at helping himself, and when I found out he wasn’t willing to either move out or meet the CONDITIONS to take advantage of my “help”, well, it HURT because I do love him, but I don’t need lies or deception.
There are quite a few folks I know that I WOULD help if they were willing to help themselves, but you know, they are not and so therefore I just stand aside and watch them roll from one bad situation to another.
Not all these people are psychopaths, by any means, but I am not responsible for providing for their needs. It is a good feeling if we can mentor someone and it turns out well for them. My stepfather was a great mentor to his students when he was a coach and a teacher, he changed people’s lives with his mentoring and his caring. Some of the relationships lasted 60+ years!
EB, Hens, One-step and Gemini—boy you guys had a party last night after I crashed! Some serious subjects on some of it besides that moldy rainbow cake!
Sometimes people come here who have English as a 2nd language and they may not grasp what we are saying, or they may be a “bit in their cups” with booze or whatever, or like Des, her wording is not mainline, but WE KNOW HER so we accept who she is and don’t think she is a P or a troll.
Over all, I think there is a pattern to US just like there is a pattern to THEM.
None of us are perfectly “functional” or we wouldn’t be here, but we are LEARNING TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES.
I think there are the trolls who come here like the most recent male troll with his word salad and trying to prove that Steve ‘s article didn’t know what it was talking about. That kind of troll is EASY TO SPOT. They come here CRITICIZING and CORRECTING, come on strong—gonna impress us with how smart they are.
Or they come here like some of you may remember the guy who kept wanting us to write hm a perfect letter to his GF that he had done everything for and she had dumped him and he kept writing this long letter and then slipped up and told us he wanted to CONTRTOL HER–DUH! Most of us were getting suspicious about him by that time anyway.
He was another one of those HOOVER suckers, just sucking away at the SUPPLY, all about Me me me!
Sure new folks tell you about their hurts, that’s part of the therapy we offer, and helps us get to know them. But it isn’t loing before they are saying comforting things to newbies, but that guy and another one or two I can think of were really convinced they were victims, when in fact they turned on bloggers here like mad snakes!
Sometimes victims are raw and get offended feelings and I try to NOT hurt people’s feelings. And you know, it is NOT my job to police this place, it is Donna’s and that’s why we have the abusive button. I use it. But when you consider the number of posters over the last 2+ years that I have ‘Met” and blogged with—-if 1-4% of the general population is a P, I would think that out of the HUNDREDS OF POSTERS who have been through here, the percentage of the ones here who I would say are “majorly dysfunctional” (or P) is much less than on the street.
Wow….reading all these disgrunteled posts about posters in this site is starting to worry me and dissapoint me. Makes me wonder if I’m being judged for the few times I post anything, weather it’s when exposing my pain and vulnerability or contributing my 2 cents worth.
I’ve been reading the articles and blogs on in this site ever since I questioned the confusing, painfull, toxic relationship I was in and after resesarching all I could when I found myself in the throngs of pain and confusion of emotional abuse.
The roof is litterally caving in on me, and I’ve fallen into a state of dispair were I can barely pick myself out of bed in the morning to function.
I have considered LF an oasis and a hughe source of releif for information, an occasional place to vent or offer my thoughts…..now I see clicks here between people and I’m not sure it’s safe here…..with out being judged.
Aeylah, Nothing you have said or done would lead anyone on LF to judge you. We are all here for the same thing: to heal after a run-in with a psychopath.
The problem arises when someone steps in, and we, usually individually, start to pick up the same kind of red-flags we missed in the past; the ones we are just now learning to recognize.
Sometimes someone arrives and immediatly becomes combative; everything is something to debate; they want to argue and contradict; they want to play a head-game and win.
It does happen from time to time. You will come to see it, too.
Most of the time, when we see something that just doesn’t set right, we will call for operation grey rock….or we will start a conversation about our potted plants. The reason for this is that we don’t want to feed these energy zappers, and if we remain unemotional, and uninvolved, nothing escalates, no one gets hurt or “spathed”.
LF has been accused at times of being clickish…I think most everyone here has thought so at one time or another, but you must remember that the people who come here are smarting from being duped. It takes most of us a little while to trust.
I believe that the overwhelming majority here are genuine warm, kind and caring people, who want to help.
So please don’t feel like you can’t trust, or be open here.
I’m glad you’re here, and that I’m here and that we have a place to go…. 🙂 Keep coming back!
Dear Aeylah,
Whgen I first started here at LF severall people made me feel very welcome. One of the things I do not like about some groups that you blog on is that people “post around” you or ignore you and that always made me NOT want to come back.
So, I started “welcoming” people when they came here as soon as I saw a new name. Several people that I have “welcomed” came back later and said to me that it was very comforting for them to be personally welcomed. I still try to do that when I see new posters and many other of the bloggers do so as well, because this is A WARM AND CARING GROUP OF PEOPLE who want you to feel welcome here and to feel that you can trust LF—but this is an open forum and anyone can log on here to read or post.
I have never been oon a single blog of any kind that there wouldn’t be some creep show up to FLAME others. It happens RARELY here and there are ways to put a STOP to it by hitting the “report abusive comment.” button.
Donna doesn’t have enough time to monitor every post or poster 24/7/365 and she depends on US to spot abusive posters and notify her.
Sometimes, especially late at night, if there is a group of people up late posting it gets pretty silly and joking between the bloggers or the “subject of the day” gets pounded into the ground.
I hope that in no way will you feel unsafe here. What kim was talking about the “gray rock” or the “potted plants” is something that 6 months or a year ago when someone came here trying to stir up trouble several posters (not a clique) decided we would talk about POTTED PLANTS or a Gray ROCK so others could get the idea we “smelled a psychopath” from the RED FLAGS we were seeing. We also would report it to Donna.
When someone comes here and is trying to be manipulative or start a fight, the official and the unofficial rules are to IGNORE THEM. Do not engage with them. If you have been blogging with them, STOP, and report the abuse. It will be taken care of. Donna usually warns them (because not everyone knows appropriate berhavior) but if they continue to be problematic, they are gone. The traditions of LF are that this is a CARING and SAFE place, but just like everyplace on earth, there are people who are NOT kind and caring and they show up here juist like at every Parent teacher association meeting and every church service and every political rally.
The difference here is that when they start waving their red flags signaling their bad intentions they are not allowed in this space to disrupt the healing atmosphere or to name call other posters or acuse and abuse other posters.