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Reliability – either it is or it ain’t

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)

What is the one characteristic that we must have, and must demand in those with whom we are associated? My thought is that it is reliability.

Most virtues exist on a “sliding scale.” These vary from “all the way” excellence to total ineptitude. Most folks are some where in the middle and that is pretty acceptable. The one virtue, however, that is all or nothing is reliability. You are either reliable or you are not. It is sort of like dead or pregnant either you is or you ain’t. There is no middle ground.

If I employed someone, I would be willing to put up with just about any deficiencies, but not with unreliability. The unreliable person is bound to fail you at precisely the worst possible time. There is an old saying about a Viennese man who, when asked if he had been faithful to his wife, answered, “frequently.” Of course the man who has “frequently” been faithful, has not been faithful at all. By the way, statistics from the Hite Report show that 66% of all married men have been unfaithful at least once. Yet 67% of all married men say that adultery is always wrong.

It is almost impossible to “screen” for reliability except by being around someone for a while and observing them. I heard it said that some people are like “rocks” and others are more like papier-mache painted to look like rocks, but crumble when any pressure is applied.

If you have a relationship with someone who is not reliable, it really doesn’t matter what other admirable characteristics they have if they lack that one, because you never know when they will let you down. We tend, though, many times, to overlook “one” episode of irresponsibility or unreliability and give the person “another chance.” But how many “second chances” are required to realize that someone is UN-reliable? Where do we draw the line?

We must expect consistency from those we deal with on a day-to-day basis. It doesn’t matter much if it is a friendship, a love relationship, or an acquaintance relationship, reliability is a necessity for a successful relationship.

The virtue of reliability is more than just important if we are to avoid the trauma from dealing with psychopaths, it is imperative. If we continue to deal with people who are unreliable, we will continue to experience trauma from those unreliable relationships.

By refusing to tolerate unreliability in those close to us, we make ourselves more immune to psychopathy. By tolerating unreliability in people close to us, we invite pain and emotional trauma. When we find ourselves in a relationship with someone who is unreliable, we must extricate ourselves from the relationship as quickly as possible.

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Joyce, this is a terrific article and it talks about a MAJOR “Red Flag” for me. There is something that really makes me crazy about unreliability – it’s simply a metphorical snapping of fingers in someone’s face to be consistently unreliable.

Nearly every spath that I’ve encountered were always late for appointments (or, were no-call-no-show), always late for work, always making broad and sweeping assurances that they would do what they said they would, and never did….grrrrrr.

A person’s word is their bond, and it is this belief that was thoroughly exploited by past spaths. Because I had such a strong sense of accountability, I would go through flaming hoops to make sure that I did whatever I had said that I would do, to my own detriment.

Today, I don’t make promises, but I won’t be late, either! 😀

GREAT article, Joyce!

Brightest blessings

Joyce,
I have to agree on this 100%!Lack of reliability was why I felt so insecure with my spath!He was always making promises…..but never keeping them.He might keep the facade up for awhile;just until I began to relax and let my guard down!He was always begging for “ONE MORE CHANCE”! Until the day I finally left,I would always weakly back down and give in.He knew I would….He banked on it!
The day I did leave….the day that I just kept walking,was no different.He did the same thing.Calling out how sorry he was,he’d never do it again,dada…..I just let it fall on deaf ears!

Blossom4th, GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!

Blossom, we must reach the point of NO MORE with the jerks. I can’t tell you how many (hundreds?) of “second chances” I gave to people who were unreliable but no more. Put up or shut up. Do or go.

Reliable means more than just doing what you say you will, it also means being RESPONSIBLE for the things you are responsible for. Behaving in an “adult” manner, not like too many teenagers do.

Interesting point Oxy, and certainly a major red-flag. I would venture however, that projecting the appearance of reliability does not exclude the possibility the person is still a P.

Mine was a model of consistence and reliability in the day to day stuff, coming home on time, calling when he said, being hours early for work, chauffeuring the kids, or my parents, or me. He was reliably “cheerful, upbeat”. Zero signs of infidelity. A model husband. This was the day to day micro level. How could I leave someone who everyone I know views as “perfect” mate?

On a macro level he was creating crisis and chaos in our lives, and with the benefit of hindsight, engaging in mind crippling gaslighting, actively and deliberately trying to destroy me.

Right up till the end he was ably to portray the well intentioned, dedicated “family man” who was a victim of other influences, business partners, the markets, jealous colleagues, you name it.

Obviously he was very good at it, and I was in deep denial, explaining away the inexplicable as “he is depressed” because he lost his career (he destroyed it) , he is doing his best, (recklessly driving us into one virtual ditch after another) he deserves to be “in charge” as he was so successful in business, ( while he was controlling and manipulating every thing about our lives to our detriment and his sense of power)
So while NOT being reliable is a deal breaker, and a good boundary to establish, the APPEARANCE of reliability can be a very effective smokescreen for the “charming” “succesful” P.

anitasee:

I agree 100%. The one I knew was like that. He told me himself he was “unreliable” yet he has a six figure income, holds down a big job, has been at the same company for over 20 years, huge house, expensive cars, etc. Usually, someone who is that “unreliable” is not going to have all of these things in his life. But he has pulled it off and has done it very well. I can’t help but think the credit must all go to his wife. She has been the one taking care of everything while he has cheated the whole time. He probably wouldn’t have half of what he has if it wasn’t for her.

You’re right of course, Anitasee, they can APPEAR RELIABLE as part of their mask…just as they can appear “loving” and “truthful” while not being any of those things.

Reliability is more than just being on time, it is being responsible, and doing what you are supposed to do without having to be overseen like a petulant teenager who doesn’t want to clean their room.

But they sure can fake things.

anitasee, Louise

My spath was like that too. He gave the appearance of being an industrious, hard working, god fearing man. He went to the opera. He was on time for work. He attended religious services.

Always, he was dressed to the “9’s” in super expensive clothing, no wrinkles in anything, best of cut, fabrics and style, in a a way that screamed “obedience to the system”. Had an earnest, scrubbed look about him. Perfect grooming.

It sort of didn’t fit when you saw his car (20 years old and rickety) and a house that was small and looked neglected, with weeds and peeling paint. That was the first sign that something wasn’t right.

Then, of course, I discovered the lies. Crazy lies. Ones where he’d have been better off telling the truth.

And then discovering all the other shit that followed.

Appearances are deceiving.

And then there is the little thing about him saying “ILU” or “XO” or whatever way he said he loved me. But he never SHOWED IT. On occasion he would SAY IT but never LIVE IT. I told him over and over again that love isn’t something you SAY it’s something YOU DO.
He couldn’t DO LOVE. And when he SAID LOVE, it was lies.

Athena

Some good observations, Athena….the INCONSISTENCY in his personal appearance and dress and his home and car are telling points.

Interestingly a couple of the people I know who I think are full blown psychopaths are very neat in their persons, and if you met them out and about you would think them very clean, neat, and organized, but their homes are SEWERS…literally…with cat boxes over flowing, trash, clutter, and DIRT to the level you can not comprehend.

OMG…according to this, I am a ppath!! Hahahaha!! My car is 18 years old…great car…Honda…still running great with a lot of miles on it…why get a new one? Why have a car payment? I do take care of my house, but do tend to have quite a bit of clutter…yep, it would probably look a little unkempt inside by some people. I dress very well. Always try to be very presentable. Most things are expensive; some are not. Expensive shoes and handbags.

Oooooh, no…God I hope I am not one!! 🙂

Louise, you are NOT a psychopath, it takes more than a cluttered house to make a Psychhopath. LOL I too drive POS-es (pieces of shiat) vehicles that run, but are PAID FOR–TA DA!!! and It is okay with me if you write your name in the dust on my furniture, just DO NOT WRITE THE DATE! LOL

I dress “well” but everything I own has come from Goodwill or Savers or Salvation Army….why pay Higher prices when you can get THE BEST for next to nothing if you shop carefully?

I have high quality antique furniture but every piece of it was bought at a bargain somewhere through the years a piece at a time. And every piece has a “back story” behind it. Where I got it and how and from whom….and what a “deal” I got on it.

But I LIVE in my house so there is a patina of scratches and dents on my furniture, and some dust, and some cat hair and now, dog hair, in the carpets, and I don’t worry about someone coming in here and seeing the dust. If they don’t like it they can get a rag and do it themselves or leave. Their choice.

What I am talking about with the people I was talking about above is a SEWER, open the door and the cat shiat smell would knock down a were wolf, can’t find the floor for the stuff filling the rooms, garbage…like on those “industrial hoarder” shows.

ps I’m not saying everyone who is a lousy house keeper is a P though…I know some folks who are lousy housekeepers that are good folks.

Oxy:

Well, I guess my house is not THAT bad…haha! But it is pretty cluttered, some of it is due to being such a small house…no where to put everything. My bedroom is the messiest because that is where I pretty much “live.” I know what you mean. My house is NOT like hoarders bad, but I have to admit, I probably would be embarrassed if a friend just popped in! It is also due in most part to my depression that I have gone through…just not feeling like cleaning my house, etc. My house NEVER looked like this until I went through this with spath and quit my job…kind of sad that experience did this to me. But my house does NOT smell and I am extremely clean about my own body. It’s just mostly clutter…no awful pet smells (I have no pets now), etc. Clutter is pretty easy to clean up. Just get some garbage bags and throw most everything away!! It really is mostly stuff that I don’t even need. I had already made up my mind when I was at my mom’s that when I came back, I was going to get it cleaned up and in order. Soooo, I will be doing that in the next couple of weeks.

Me, too…I also know people who are not good housekeepers, but are the best people you will ever meet.

I’m still trying to reconcile in my mind my old car and my expensive clothes, shoes and handbags though…haha!! Geez!! You all got me thinking now!

Hi…..my name is EB and I haven’t vacumed my house in 3 weeks and I have skiis sitting on my front porch and none of the beds in the house are made. Oh yeah….My car is a mess from the work I do……Ice chests, glitter from ornaments, pine needles from hauling Christmas trees and dog hair from Hols.
BUT… I do have Bouncy hair!!!! 🙂

…..and not to mention my red stillettos!!!

EB:

Yay! Glad I am not the only one!!! 🙂

Erin,

You made me laugh. I have red stilletettos and bouncy hair too.
Ha ha.

No, this was something more sinster. The clothes were studied, purposeful. I can’t really describe it, except, if you compared how he dressed to a normal man, even a normal well dressed man, he stood out far and above that. The clothing and personal appearance were stunning. It’s because it was part of the mask.

Once I saw that, then I uncovered more elements of the mask and inconsistencies (going to worship services, while lying through his teeth)……claiming he was living alone while living with a woman……claiming he had multiple homes while he had one…..

The critical thing about the spath is the facade, the mask.

As you know.

Athena

For me….one of the ‘insights’ into a persons reliability is when they PROMISE.
I promise i’ll be there at 5.
I promise I’ll take the trash out when I get home.
I promise never to do xx again.
I promise you look great.
I promise……..

When a statement is prefaced with ‘I promise’…..you can bet your not gonna get whats promised. All your promised is another excuse!!!
Normal reliable people don’t have to PROMISE! Why, they intend to do as they say……not intensify the statement with a promise!!!

I PROMISE……is a red flag for me to upcoming unreliability.
It’s always the precurser to the let down.

Athena~ you described my former spath tenent perfectly.
He drove a brand new (stolen) BMW sedan with fancy rims etc…. His wardrobe was all Italian Suits (stolen) and he whipped out his nice grained leather wallet…..European fancy edition, to pay freely for my starbucks when we first met to sign the lease, and he gave me a very personalized gold leafed check for a deposit on the rental.
That was all I got outa him……the free $3.00 starbucks.
The check bounced…..the gold leafing on the check was worth more than the check itself.

After I evicted them (in only 30 days)…..OMG….the house was a PIGSTY! OMG!!! The mold growing in the fridge, the dishes around each bedroom with gook in them -moldy…..the nasty ass bathrooms, the rooms you couldn’t enter with STOLEN merchandise from floor to ceiling. The trash bags with diapers and trash piled up in the front office 10 deep.
YUP hoarder style all the way!!!
But the Beemer was always washed and shiny black. The clothes always dry cleaned and pressed to perfection…..and the shoes polished.
That was it…….all a facade!
I was horrified to see the shambles my place was in…..and so were the cops!
I kicked his ASS with my red stillettos though……shiney, polished and clean!!! 🙂

I know what callmeathena was saying when she said appearances”didn’t fit”.My spath/husband has OCD and he kept me working all the time to satisfy his obsessions….instead of him doing the work!When it came to his car-whoa!He didn’t care that it was full of litter.He didn’t maintain it.For a long time he never had a decent vehicle.For a long time I wouldn’t help him with his vehicles;afterall I was working my ‘fingers to the bones’ taking care of the home and our daughters.But once they were grown and left the home,not as much to do,he was able to talk me into cleaning his car and adding oil & transmission fluid as necessary.

Joyce:

So true about reliability. Like you, there are lots of things I can tolerate in the people in my life. And like you, a lack of reliability isn’t one of them. That is a non-starter.

I suspect my strong reaction to a lack of reliability stems from having 2 parents who were, when I was growing up, absolutely notorious for promising anything in the moment to manipulate me into doing what they wanted, and then never following through with whatever they had promised in the moment. When I was involved with the S-ex, part of the reason (and there were so many reasons) I used to walk around with my stomach in knots was because of his total unreliability. In those rare instances when he actually foillowed through with whatever he promised to do, I would be awash with relief.

Recently I have been having some problems with a colleague at work. When I analyzed exactly what could be the problem, I realized that several of the the red flags of sociopathy were waving right in my face. But I also realized that the real obvious problem which I was ignoring was his total lack of reliability.

One things a person is telling you when they demonstrate a lack of reliability – that you and your time are of no value to him. That’s it. Plain and simple. You are of no value to him. Zip. Zilch. Nada. And I have learned the hard way (and apparently need to re-learn the lesson every now and again) that once that message has been sent to you, the message isn’t going to change or improve with time. Instead, the blow-olffs will increase, and the so-called apologies/excuses will only be more self-serving. More to the point, tha t so-called relief comes at a very high price – your self-respect. Because inevitably you turn your anger on yourself rather than justifiably turning the anger where it should be turned – the person who is dissing you by showing a lack of reliability.

I also realized that by permitting this colleague to be so unreliable I was essentially enabling his poor performance. In the old days I would have tried to clean up his mess quietly to maintain peace in the workplace. This time I walked into my boss’ office, laid out the scenario for her, and threw him under the bus.

Amazing how that knot in my stomach vanished just like that.

HEy, Matt, wonderful to see you lurking around here still!

Glad you sent the guy under the bus, too! What a wonderful feeling to have it off your chest and under the bus where HE BELONGS. I hope your boss appreciated what you did. It sucks when your boss doesn’t pick the ball up and run with it. Mixing metaphors here a bit, but you get the idea.

Yea, reliability is a big thing with me too…I’ve always been pretty doggone reliable and I let others get by without being, and like you, I turned my anger inward. NO more. Now I’m throwing’em under the bus too.

I’m not sure you can do so, but did you see the article about the parole protest for my son? If you could, could you write a letter of protest for me…the directions are in the article? I’m scared to death he may actually get out this time and so am trying to get every literate person I know to write a letter…and a couple of relatives who are not so literate! LOL Thanks if you can do it, if not I understand.

Matt,
Awesome job! well done.
I wish we could throw every single spath under the bus, WHERE THEY BELONG.

Until then, I’ll just have to enjoy your victory, vicariously.

Oxy, I will write a letter about your son. Can you post a link to the article again? I can’t find it.

Interesting that you have similar observations, Athena and Louise.

My theory is that the “hyper vigilance” I saw about the day to day “appearances” of things, dishes done, cars washed, clothes to the cleaners, haircut etc. was his way of keeping up the “mask”, keeping things in “order”, was an offset to the pyramid of lies he was juggling, too many to keep straight, unless he simultaneously ran a very “clean ship”, had the obvious stuff tightly organized.

Maybe also telling is that the first thing I did whenever he was out of town was let the dishes pile up, clothes fall in a heap, leave the beds unmade. It was like a vacation from the rigid sense of order he imposed, on a very chaotic mess.

The chaotic messes, it turns out, were manufactured for my benefit, to keep me destabilized, insecure, fearing for the welfare of my family. He invented them to manipulate me, while taking care of his every whim on the sly. I am still gobsmacked by all the diligence it took to float those lies for 27 years, confounded by the notion that it gave him satisfaction to have several “fake” persona’s and lives, while keeping me dancing on the head of a pin.

He is faking a new one now, with the new wife and caregiver, gone “back to the church” etc. No hint of his obsession with porn, let alone trolling for one on one sex with men. Go figure.

anitasee,
yep, it’s fricking off the wall unbelievable. But we better believe it because that’s what they DO.

anitasee:

Hmmmm, the more I think about this, the more I see this to be true and what I also had observed, but did not put two and two together.

The one I knew dressed in very expensive clothes…I mean VERY expensive…Bally shoes, $150 dress shirts, etc., but he did wear the same thing all the time. He kept his Mercedes immaculate, but when I walked into his apartment…OMG!!!!!! He was embarrassed to take me there and even admitted it to me, but of course, I didn’t care…I was “in loooooove”…hahaha!!! He had clothes piled up three feet high…not exaggerating. He had dirty wine glasses sitting all on top of the counter near the sink. He had NO toilet paper! The mirror in his bathroom was so dirty from all the splash marks that you couldn’t even see in it! He had no bed. At the time, I didn’t think about these things (as we all do not…we are so caught up, we don’t see ANYTHING!), but later it all made sense. Of course he didn’t have a bed…he wasn’t planning on staying there much longer…he was going back to his marriage. Why invest in the expense of a bed when he was going to go back home?? It also made sense as to why he had no toilet paper…he most likely was staying at his house sometimes…probably going back and forth. It also made me realize that his wife obviously takes care of all the cleaning in the house…without her around, that is what his place would look like!!! It was absolutely horrid. So what I am realizing thanks to Arianna is that anything that was seen by the outside world (his appearance and his car) was kept immaculate and anything that was hidden like his apartment, was a mess! Yessssss, part of the mask!!! Great observation!!! I never put this together before! Hey, now I know I am not a spath…I drive around in an old car and I don’t care who sees!!! 🙂

Louise isn’t it amazing what we start to put together into a “picture” when our eyes are no longer blinded by ‘LUUVVVVV” ? LOL

Anitasee, yep ditto to what I said to louise.

My P BF lost the house in the divorce and he “lived” at his hunting cabin…really cute “play house” but NOT a house to live in…no indoor plumbing or running water…5 miles at the end of a dirt trail, not even a road. He also had an RV trailer that he “lived in” part time, but no real HOUSE or APT.

He was of course planning on moving into MY house.

(head shaking here) AMAZING what we can see 20/20 in hindsight.

Oxy:

Yes, it is amazing what we see when the blinders are off.

Sure sounds like he was planning on moving into YOUR house! So glad you got away from that one!!

Unreliable? This is interesting because once you know a psychopath, they are totally reliable to what they are. The one I married has been reliably psychopathic, untruthful, manipulative and cruel, to his victims for 45 years while appearing to be a pillar of the community where he lives, a well dress lawyer in an immaculate house with an immaculate car and a phony, glib personality. The only outside sign I can see on him is his creepy eyes and funny gay butt walk. I suspect he is a closet homosexual because it does not fit his mask to come out.

Yeah, my X hub was a freak about organization and spotlessness…it became a huge bone of contention. He was preatty OCD, and I was a so-so housekeeper who did my best….never good enough, and he would kibbits, and tell me how to do everything. One day I was hanging laundry on the line and he stood behind me telling me the way it ought to be done. I didn’t say a word, just dropped the shirt back into the laundry basket and walked away.
I did this on several occasions, while cooking, doing dishes, whatever. Yes. It was just one more way to tip the power balance, and chip away at my self-esteem.
Interestingly, within about a year of my leaving the house was a wreck. Lot’s of unfinished projects and such.
Even my grown kids commented about it. He was always riding them, too. Funny.

This was what tipped me off that something was wrong in the relationship I had with the person who might well have been an s.

It showed me there was a serious disconnect between her words and her actions. She would routinely lie, break appointments at the last minute, apologize, and then do it again. It was scary to realize that there was nothing outside of her — no code, no established rules of conduct, no belief — that held her accountable.

This is why I agree very much that reliability is a key factor in establishing a real relationship with someone.

More than her just not being able to keep her appointments was her use of language, which made her unreliable, and which I later learned in symptomatic of an s. S-paths use language instrumentally, which means that they do not use words to convey feelings or establish trust, but rather to “get things.” In other words, “I love you” in s-path language really means “I am saying ‘I love you” so that I can get you to do things for me.” They do not really love anyone.

It led me to wonder what was going on inside her if language could not reveal it. The best guess I could come up with complete chaos entirely unregulated. When the bond is broken between language and emotion, between words and meaning, the interior life of a person becomes a wild no-man’s land. Any visitor should take care not to remain there very long.

Yep, Lebo, reliability is one thing that is important I think in ANY relationship. With people who are not reliable or responsible you can not manage to have any kind of meaningful relationship. So if either of those things is lacking, the relationship is built on sand.

Divorced from Gaslighter

Some hoarders are undoubtedly S/Ps, but most of them aren’t. I have struggled with some hoarding issues, but have gotten better over time. I think the hoarding was mostly triggered by “losing” everything that I cared about and the problem was made worse by having to relocate numerous times — each time with the loss of things that I wanted to keep. The lack of stability in my life combined with the constant moving, and never having enough storage space, etc., made me very messy at my worst point.

But while I was married to the S, I spent endless amounts of time trying to maintain our endless series of homes to his ridiculous standarsds. Anitasee mentioned the relief that she felt when her spouse left town, and I remember feeling the same way. By golly he gone for three days! I can load the dishwasher whichever way I want! I can fold the clothes the way I want!

He never lifted a finger to help, because manual labor was beneath him, but he was ALWAYS using his exquisite sense of taste to make my list of chores longer and harder. For example, he bought designer sheets in the 1980s that were NOT permanent press to use as a bedspread, because he didn’t like regular bedspreads. The bed was then very time consuming to make to have it look right, and of course, once a week I had to iron the top sheet/bedspread. He also picked out ceiling light fixtures that were extremely difficult to clean and polish, and only looked decent when they were at their shiniest. I could think of a thousand other examples. He picked out EVERYTHING we ever owned together because “it meant so much” to him to have things just so. I wasn’t cleaning “our” stuff, I was cleaning “his” stuff.

DivorcedfromGaslighter, there are different types of hoarders, I think – I know of people who hoard because it’s the ONLY thing that they CAN control – often victims of abuse. The exspath “hoarded” things that didn’t make sense and always tried to place intrinsic value on them. LMAO!!!!! After he left, he gave his attorney a “list” of personal belongings that he wanted to collect and it was just incredible – NONE of the things that littered the house were on the list – just the things that helped him to present a “normal” facade. Oh, and “his” cat that he ruined and didn’t see fit to help feed for the time that she was in my care.

“He never lifted a finger to help,” is something that I can identify with. When I was experiencing excruciating flares associated with my medical condition, he NEVER offered to cook a meal, clean the house, clean the litter boxes, do laundry, or even assist me. Instead, he would get up at 4:30am to get ready for work, turn on the overhead light to wake me up, LEAVE the light on to make SURE that I didn’t get any rest (pain-induced insomnia), and then leave for work. LMAO!!!

Ick……such a$$holes, right?

Brightest blessings

Hoarding a lot of times is a sign of depression.

Truthy,
I can relate to the cat thing.
We had 5 cats. One day, I was cleaning the litter box and he says, “I would never do that, clean the litter box.” He was trying to make me feel bad for doing such a dirty mundane chore. I looked at him and said, “It’s an honor to clean the litter box.”

I thought he would understand that anything I do for my cat babies is a gift because I loved them so much. But he didn’t get it, because that kind of thought process is foreign to him.

After I left him he calls me and says, “Why can’t I have at least one of the cats?” ROTFLMAO! “BECAUSE Spath,” I said, “you said you would never clean the litter box. They need a clean litter box.” Poor spath hadn’t thought that far ahead, I guess.

Divorced from gaslighter, I know several people who are “world class” hoarders who I think are DEPRESSED and that is the problem, my ex best friend, is one such. She has an abusive husband, and though I had “known” him for 30 years I didn’t really get to KNOW him until he retired, and then her HOARDING GOT HORRIBLE…and her depression got worse. Unfortunately, her depression, her denial, etc. ended our 30 year friendship…but I pray for her every day. I know that her husband is emotionally if not physically abusive, but because he traveled for work, I never really realized just HOW ABUSIVE he was until 2 years ago when I visited them and he even lit in on me. I walked out immediately. I haven’t heard a word from her since.

I realize she is terribly depressed and buying things is her outlet, but she is to the point that you can not even get into some rooms of her home and those you can it is just tiny pathways between piles of stuff. SAD.

Other hoarders may hoard out of anxiety…so there are multiple reasons people hoard (and hey, we all keep stuff we will never use!) Psychopathy is only one of the reasons people hoard.

but I also know psychopaths who are WORLD CLASS hoarders as well as FILTHY in their homes, while their persons are clean and presentable.

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