According to researchers, not all pedophiles molest children. And not all child molesters are pedophiles. Now, many experts view pedophilia as a deep-rooted disposition, much like heterosexuality or homosexuality.
Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia, on LATimes.com.
Skylar, I said the exact opposite of what you are repeating. I said I applied that quote to schizophrenia. I didn’t apply it to paedophiles. I give schizophrenics a much bigger pass than most other people when it comes to pointing a finger and saying they are evil. Just like we give a certain kind of pass to Lenny from Of Mice and Men, because he was mentally handicapped and didn’t understand what he was doing. I can’t say people with Down syndrome are evil, even if that serves as the explanation for some specifc person causing harm.
If a person is functional and not confused, like mentally handicapped or hallucinating, it is that person’s fault if he fails to manage a fetish/perversion/evil drive/whatever you want to name it and causes harm to someone else. A person who is genuinely psychotic or mentally handicapped or has dementia does not have as many resources to draw on to govern themselves or transcend what is afflicting them. I hope that clarifies what I was saying.
I agree that pornography is not a victimless crime. First and foremost if it was made with an actual child in it, that was my biggest issue right there. But I think it borders on dishonest not to recognize that a person like the guy in the article is choosing what he regards as the lesser of two evils. Do I look at pictures/a movie, or do I violate a child? And the child in the pictures is an abstraction or blind spot. I mentioned frequency and scale in another post to someone. I do myself see somebody who actively abuses a child differently from a porn consumer. And I am NOT prepared to defend that: I understand that consumers of this sort of thing have to be held accountable just like active abusers. I don’t know if actual punishments are the same.
I also know that opting for porn rather than in-person abusing may not necessarily be guided by concern for children’s welfare (and mistaken belief that porn is victimless), it could be a self serving calculation, or just easier to access.
I’d be really curious about the study you mention that shows that pornography makes the problem worse. I thought that the escape valve vs. wolf-feeder question hadn’t been resolved. This would be new information for me.
“Oh but you mis-quoted me. I didn’t say it means what I think it means. What I said was, It means whatever I meant by it. I maintain that you are arrogant, and I am moving on. Bye now”
kim frederick, I think those two quotes are close enough in meaning. The more of a distinction you might try to draw, the more arrogant the second one itself sounds. I think it’s good to stay aware and attuned to how other people are likely to take one’s language. I’m being called out on that myself right now, as much as I disagree with what’s being contended about me and my posts.
Sorry for using quotes, though. I didn’t mean to imply you had said exactly that. But clearly using quotes can give that impression and I probably should have used some other symbols or quote verbatim. I would probably still have the very same thing to say about it. I you would like, I’ll remove the quotes or correct the words quoted.
Thank you for your opinion of me.
No problem.
Goerge was an enabler, Curley, a power freak who wore a glove to keep his hand soft for his seductive, vulnerable, child-like wife, and Lenny liked to fondle soft things til they died….Lenny ended up with a bullet in his head. What’s your point? It was a tragedy, for sure. All the charactor’s in the story were dysfunctional. It doesn’t follow that I, or anyone else should pity sex offenders.
And no. The distinction between what I said and what YOU said I said is huge. And how you interpreted what I said and how you put your spin on it. I bring this up as an example to those who are not as far along the path as I am.
Stick around. Please. We can all learn from you. And, I thank you for that.
My point was that we give Lenny a pass which we don’t give to Ted Bundy or Robert Chambers. You probably wouldn’t say “It was a tragedy” about a number of other people who died because they themselves killed someone.
I trust that Skylar will not conclude that because I give schizophrenics and mentally handicapped people a greater pass than functional people who choose to do harm and John Steinbeck wrote a story, that it follows that she or you are I are supposed to pity sex offenders.
There do exist people who pity all offenders, or many. Do they absolve them, release them, or defend their acts? Maybe if they are nuts. But some don’t do those things, they just pity the offenders for being offenders. Some people pity psychopaths in general. I think it’s possible to administer the death penalty with tremendous pity, and not because you think the convict is innocent or good. It doesn’t mean making a drama or glorifying or sentimentalizing or excusing this criminal. And it can and should be independent of one’s sense of the suffering of the convict’s victim’s, meaning it needn’t and shouldn’t detract from one’s attention to that. Some anti-death penalty advocates DO lose sight of that, but I am talking about being willing to see the individual held fully accountable, i.e. executed. That person can be pitied not in spite of the monstrous deeds he committed, but actually in proportion to the monstrosity. Which first requires recognizing the monstrosity and harm done.
I’m not telling anyone they should do that or anything like it.
What?
I posted the link to the original article because I thought it offered an interesting scientific perspective on the origins of pedophilia. The more I learn about personality disorders and other mental conditions, the more amazed I am at how complex they are.
Finding a biological cause of pedophilia is not an attempt to excuse their behavior. Apparently there are those who realize that their desires are harmful, and want to overcome them. Maybe there is hope for this group of people.
If the ones who are child molesters are cruel and sadistic psychopaths, rather than pedophiles, I think it’s important that society knows there is a difference.
This doesn’t excuse any harmful actions. But it may help those who are charged with dealing with people who commit offenses.
“And no. The distinction between what I said and what YOU said I said is huge. And how you interpreted what I said and how you put your spin on it. I bring this up as an example to those who are not as far along the path as I am.”
kim frederick, OK, how I interpreted something was not how you meant it. We are two separate people. That’s why it’s optimal to adhere to conventions regarding what is *commonly understood* by this expression or that. And don’t you think that rather than stating that something means whatever you meant, it’s better to try to clarify what you did mean? Whether it be that sentence or the expression “word salad”?
I acknowledged that the quote and the “misquote” can be interpreted differently. And I’ll repeat that the “huger” the difference in interpretation, the more arrogant the actual quote sounds to me.
You seem to have trouble accepting people having different opinions from yours. If you think there is some reason I am supposed to be here conforming to yours, that’s a problem.
The scientists have concluded something that you or others don’t like. I expressed something you didn’t like. I interpreted something in a way that was not your interpretation. Twice. In one case after you used some words in some non conventional yet unexplained way. I’m not getting why I am supposed to be adapting to your opinions and secret understandings of what you meant by something.
I have to say that since you raise the subject, my opinion of where you are on your path also differs from yours, and your statements display some supreme arrogance. Your implication that I am to serve as some sort of specimen for examination and illustration of God knows what — dysfunction, dishonesty, venality, trolling? — is going way too far.
Please stop giving me your attention. I don’t think I said anything inflammatory to Skylar when I mentioned Lenny, and your responding with your straw man argument about something not following was a completely unnecessary response to something I was addressing to someone else.
I’m not here for this drama.
I entered this thread when disagreed with some people’s logic and premises, and was disturbed by talk of exterminating people — seemingly or possibly including people who hadn’t even done anything yet. Please see Donna’s post above mine. I don’t think my opinion is that much at odds with hers, and I don’t think extermination would match well with hers. I am sorry if the way i expressed my thinking was triggering. But please leave me alone now.