Many women have written to Lovefraud about husbands who they’ve come to believe are sociopaths. They were astounded to discover that, not only was the husband cheating, but he was having sex with men.
Lovefraud reader eyeswideshut writes about this in a recent comment to the post, After he’s gone: looking at the sociopath through open eyes. She asks:
Now that I know he is also gay, is sociopathic tendency in married gay men not common as well? When I read the stories of the women in the book (“Straight Wives”), many of the men sound like sociopaths as well. Have you studied this phenomenon? Is it possible that gay men who choose to live the lie of married life are likely also socios?
To this, another Lovefraud reader, Leslie, commented:
On the third extended date I had with the SP, I turned to him one night, after we’d been together, and said, “Have you been with men?” Something in the way he’d made love made me think he had. He stared at the window and said in a monotone, “I have never made love to a man.” It was the same monotone he used to deny that he was living with a woman when I asked him that a year later. He was. I don’t have hard proof, but I know the guy had had sex with men.
Then alohatraveler commented:
I have heard from another victim of my sociopath that he was starting to get more “experimental” when she knew him. She knew him after me. He was expressing an interest in having sex with a man, but of course, with a woman present, because he was “not gay.” We both also saw an ad that he posted looking for sex with a transsexual. Then he placed an ad where he wanted a traditional type of woman.
“Not a gay bone in my body”
Shortly after I met my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, he proclaimed to me, “There’s not a gay bone in my body.” I had no reason to doubt him. But when I left him after two-and-a-half years, I learned a lot about his sexual activities:
- He had sex with at least six other women during our relationship.
- He was heavily into Internet porn.
- He solicited gay male prostitutes.
- He tried to arrange threesomes and looked for swinging couples.
In short, he wanted sexual thrills. The more different kinds of thrills, the better. I’m lucky I didn’t get a serious disease.
Screw anyone
Sociopaths are hard-wired for sex. They have an excessive need for stimulation, excitement and sensation. They also have no fear and no inhibitions. From a sexual perspective, that means a voracious appetite and anything goes.
Dr. Liane Leedom writes that sociopaths only want two things. One of them is power. The other is sex.
So when it comes to sexual orientation, I believe sociopaths are neither straight nor gay. In short, they’ll screw anyone.
Lovefraud has heard from gay individuals—men and women—who were involved in gay relationships with sociopaths. I asked several of them if they thought the sociopath was actually gay. They all agreed with my theory and said the sociopath was not gay.
Sex with an agenda
This does not mean, however, that sociopaths are out of control. On the contrary, to them, sex, and sexual orientation, is just something to be used in order to achieve their objective, whatever that is.
Perhaps the most egregious example of this is the case of James McGreevey, the former governor of New Jersey. McGreevey, you may recall, resigned from office after proclaiming in a news conference that he was a “gay American.”
The truth was that his political career was imploding under a series of scandals. As I wrote in a review of the book written by McGreevey’s wife, I believe the former governor played the gay card because it was the best way to spin his political collapse.
Sociopaths use people for sex, and use sex to get what they want. Anybody who suits their agenda will do.
If it suits their agenda to be married with children, then that’s what they’ll do. But if sociopaths indulge in same-sex relationships, in my opinion, it’s because they’re sociopaths, not gay.
Taylor I can relate to that rage upon finding out what I was dealing with – I always knew something was wrong, but to find out he is a psychopath – well that made me angrier and sadder than I could express. Please tell your story (in as safe a way as you can) as you feel able to – this is a great site for exploring all the enlightenments that arise as you think through the past relationship in light of this new evidence.
As someone who has been out for three months, I can tell you that the first few weeks are very up and down but gradually it gets better after that … you are likely to feel very lonely to start with because they monopolised all of our time in the past. It’s a big hole to adjust to. But you are living in truth now – the lie is out of your life and that can only be a positive thing for your future – there was no hope at all with a psychopath.
If I can offer you some advice from my own journey so far … no contact … this is recommended by this site and is the best healing strategy bar none. You will notice after time away from your ex how disordered and confused you feel if you come back into contact with them again – staying far away from their pathology is definitely the best bet.
Another thing that helped me is to write out what I am going through and as much of the history of the relationship as I could. This helped me to understand his behaviour and attitudes in light of knowing his disorder. It also prevented me from taking revenge on him that could have come back to bite me in the ass. Anger is a good sign – use it to your benefit – write about why you’re angry. And come here lots to read the archives and post your thoughts as this knowledge seeps in – you’ll likely have a bit of a rollercoaster of feelings in the first few weeks – we’ve all been through that too and understand it. You will find support and encouragement here for the tough times (as well as smacks on the side of the head from Oxy’s skillet if you start blaming yourself or start talking about going back to him lol)
I am so sorry you went through this, but please believe … it does get better with time. You will get through this and come out the other side okay.
Till next time
Midlife 🙂
He’s beautiful, like a statue standing at 6”²3”³. He has an athletic build because of carpentry and skateboarding. I have always felt sexy and beautiful, but next to him I have to admit that at times I felt a bit average. He’s charming, can make me laugh till I cry, and is super intelligent (though not educated). He was seemingly in touch with his feminine side, asking me how I felt, frantically contacting me when his strange mood swings caused me to walk away from him at times. “YES! Someone who actually works at a relationship”, I thought to myself early on.
Yes, I’ve been bewitched. However, as someone who has studied psychology independently for as long as I can remember, I have wondered out loud if he actually experiences human emotions or if he just mimicks them really well. I thought at first that he was just a narcissist and showed him the DSM IV’s description. He only admitted to falling under a couple of the descriptions”
I’m set to meet with him tomorrow. The relationship ended on March 26th because of my opinons on one day finding two ex girlfriends (polyamorous) and joining their lifestyle in the future. HE made ME the freak for wanting monogamy and being angered by his pining over two exes when he has a funny, fun, beautiful, sexy, smart, nurturing, educated woman RIGHT in front of him.
Just the day before he was concerned about us”coming back to my house after a small misunderstanding to snuggle so he could feel comfortable and sleep well and not worry about us. In a matter of days he went from giving me constant attention to vascillations between nonchalance and lashing out (calmly of course) during our “breakup” meeting. He said that we have no sexual future if I am not “excited about his future plans” and “if I wants me to forget them he’ll forget ME”.
It seems he HASN’T forgotten me though”he’s the one chasing me, literally, when I turn the opposite way to avoid contact with him and forcing himself in my face being playful, seemingly to try to make me miss him.
I honestly was so excited when he finally called”memories of him smiling, standing in the snow waiting for me after work, having to see me in the mornings before I left and basically being at my beck and call haunted me. His smile, his physical energy, his kisses, jokes, voice haunted me. He made me feel like he was in love because of expressing things like wanting to move in together by June. He spoke of all our plans for the Spring and Summer and further on. HE was the one always talking about the future, not me. If you could print out every single one of my thoughts during the day, you would have seen that his face would have been the background.
After reading all these stories, I am feeling differently.
I also have wondered at times about his sexuality. He mentioned hurting a man in his mid 40’s when he tried to come onto him. Somehow later on though he ended up living in a condo that was under the man’s name. I probed and he shook his head and said he didn’t want to talk about it. I asked him flat out if he’s hooked up with guys and all I got was a silent head not. On another occasion he said “I like having sex with girls” and I said something to the effect of “yeah right’ (in my opinion it took a little too long to consumate the relationship though he was always aroused just being close to me) and he asked if I thought he was a “homo”. YOu could hear the anxiety and fear in his voice…
I don’t know what tomorrow will bring.
Dear Notthatgirl,
You didn’t ask for an opinion but I’ll give you one anyway.
If you are smart, you will NOT be there for the “meeting” tomorrow. This man has ALREADY shown you what he IS—and that is UNfaithful to ANYONE.
They will screw a snake if it will hold still or someone will hold it, and they aren’t even faithful to them! Get ye hence, dear girl, and avoid all the problems that go with a sociopath! 😉
I actually believe Jamie when he told me he was never with a woman. Thus, I don’t believe sociopaths are default bisexuals.
I also believe that some sociopaths may “want” a monogomous relationship. They just can’t deliver and when the thrill of the new catch wears off, its on to somebody new with of course the victim to blame…
OxDrover,
I’s fine…I was actually hoping for as much feedback as possible. Thank you!
He doesn’t think what he does is “bad”. His mindset is kind of hippie-ish. He says he loved and STILL loves both of the girls; they were all in the relationship together. He claims to have becoming pretty much an alcoholic wreck once the relationships ended (in 2000?) due to some dramatic story that drove them all apart. It’s all so outrageous, aand I wonder what is true or not.
I’m imagining he may try to say that he has forgotten about that lifestyle and wants to try out a “normal” lifestyle with me and “see how it goes”.
I’d like to think of myself as intelligent but when it comes to men I do make stupid mistakes. I don’t really think I’ve ever been with a sociopath though. :-/
Not that girl – (playing devil’s advocate) ask your rational self:
* Why is he telling me about this 2000 relationship?
(my guess – to gauge how much you’ll overlook right off the bat – how ‘stoopid’ you are)
*If this story is even true (which it may not be – it could be , but also it could just be a dupe thermometer) how reasonable is it to expect him to change who he is and have a ‘normal’ relationship, or put better; the relationship you want?
xxxxx
I admit he admitted this to me (the exes) fairly early on. I tried to break it off immediately, literally running out of his apartment. The next morning he was frantic trying to regain my favour. I allowed him to take me to dinner and told him I couldn’t continue knowing what I know. He pleaded not to end things, to take a risk, he doesn’t know what the future will bring with the exes and what will develop btwn. US. I was, however, already addicted to the exhilaration I felt in being around him, which I hadn’t felt around anyone in years and called him teh very next day and we continued. The whole tiem I’m thinking I’ll “cure” him and the whole time I guess he was thinking the same thing. The relationship only lasted from Late December until the end of March, but he has made an impression.
I think I can be very strong…I will make an update soon.
Dear Notthatgirl,
If you think you can be very strong… then be strong and see what happens when you suggest something normal, natural and self-preserving… tell him you would prefer to discuss whatever it is that he would like to talk about on the phone… watch him go off the handle. (RED FLAG)
You said something that we have all experienced or felt at one time – and it is the one thing that holds us back/keeps us in this place of wonderment, bewilderment, confusion, attraction, etc..
“Im imagining he may try to say that he has forgotten about that lifestyle and wants to try out a “normal” lifestyle with me and “see how it goes”
Its not til we stop “imagining/hoping” and come out of the FOG and grasp the REALITY OF WHAT IS/WHAT WAS WITH HIM IS WHAT WILL ALWAYS BE. Again, what you got the first time around is what you will get again and again and again.
You said he has made an impression. Im wondering other than the sexual or physical attraction (or confusing that with making an impression on you) what might you be referring to?
Because the impression you have shared here about him – is nothing to be following up on – or following thru with a meeting. You cant cure a guy who wants to have multiple women (And he does and he will – whether you agree to it or not or know about it or not).
Please dont fool yourself ontop of him being able to have the chance to fool you again. And thats their game plan…. discard when youre not a willing participant in his “future sexual plans” and wait a while until youve forgotten the real issues and are just “excited” when he finally calls and flashback to memories of the things he did to make sure you stayed and were romanticized enough that he could lure you into his sick ideas of a future.
Or he made an impression on you that he may be bi-sexual — as long as youre comfortable with that, then he isnt really hiding anything in that regard.
And yes nothatgirl….they really are “talkers” – leaders in the relationship planning out futures and “saying” all the right things and plans so far down the line that its too good to be true! And it is! Because once reality sets in and you dont agree to be polyamorous all those words go out the door and he is not willing to forget the other women – but he will threaten to forget you and switch off so fast…. you see this is not a good man. This is not a decent guy. This is not a good impression of a caring loving giving man. This is a selfish toxic person.
He wasnt thinking you would “cure” him… he was only thinking how much more do I have to do to get her to agree, to get her to give in and see how cool it would be to share our love and sexual encounters with other women I love…etc…. hey some people do it – and to each his own — but obviously it wasnt what you wanted the first time around –
I really hope you choose not to go. To just test the waters and say lets just discuss this over the phone — Im still rather uncomfortable with the way our last meeting went and the way you treated me. So what is it you wanted to meet about and discuss… you will be making an update sooner than you can blink – that he freaked out and split.
I may be wrong… but what do you have to lose to see if he is a good decent caring understanding of your feelings kind of guy who says ok no problem we can talk about it over the phone if thats better for you – or if hes a loser and doesnt agree to it – because his intentions are not what you think they are.
The only mistake you could really make is sleeping with him again without being tested or seeing him and setting yourself back…please reread articles and posts here at LF…help yourself be stronger than agreeing to meet with a guy who treated you WAY less than you deserve as a woman and who is incredibly selfish. GL!!!
No matter what keep us posted, as many of us have been in your shoes in some form or another and can give you advice and support when the impression fades to reality.
Hello Learning-thank you for responding.
He has always hated talking on the phone, as do I. I much prefer face to face, though my reasons are probably different than his (he doesn’t get to work his magic over the phone). So you are absolutely right, he would not agree to talk on the phone.
when I say I thought I would “cure” him and he thought the same, I meant that he thought he could cure ME of my interest in the mundane normalcy of monogamy.
When I say that he made an impression on me, Im recollecting the way our relationship unfolded. It’s like the line from a Sade song, “The rose we remember, the thorn we forget”.
Our first true interaction was a bit intense though I’d seen him around the community for many years. I was being harangued by a family member and my fiance at the time. I always thought he was beautiful and there he was, at the right time. He was a smiling face, seemingly empathetic and caring to my feelings among people who were supposed to care but treated me poorly. My ex fiance was never concerned about my feelings instead labeling them as “crazy”. My fiancee saw us conversing, assumed that I was cheating and moved out that night. This was fine by me because that relationship needed to come to a close anyway (he was not very nice either, but that is another story).
The things that made the impression on me were the constant attention; no matter what his work schedule was he would be almost desperate to see me. He had to see me every day. As I said, I have always seen him around but only have ever seen him with one girl. When we started dating he immediately confessed to not having been with ANY women for 7 years, though he did tell me about some dates and some flirtations. Seeing how he was never looking happy or satisfied, I believed him and felt special. I too have been celibate for years at a time, and some people didn’t believe me. In ways, I felt that I found the male version of myself (we have similar family backgrounds and living situations as well). Also, this may be TMI, but the first time we were alone he kissed my feet and even put my shoes and socks back on. I felt worshipped.
Anyway the constant attention and “fighting” for me are the MAIN draws. I was exhilarated and happy. I would wake up smiling and literally lol thinking of our interactions and silly physical games (piggy back, superman). I was giddy.
My mother just called to inform me that he ran into her a few moments ago and he told her we are meeting tomorrow. WTF? It was like he’s staking a victory…he barely talks to her (claims to be scared of her…we both have Latina mothers and mine reminds him of his).
I was angry and wanted to text immediately “what was THAT little stunt?”
I will keep posting. I already feel so much stronger.
PS, we were both tested before we slept together for the first time…he posed no objection. That was another reason I believed his stories of pining for the exes and not having been with any women since them.