Many women have written to Lovefraud about husbands who they’ve come to believe are sociopaths. They were astounded to discover that, not only was the husband cheating, but he was having sex with men.
Lovefraud reader eyeswideshut writes about this in a recent comment to the post, After he’s gone: looking at the sociopath through open eyes. She asks:
Now that I know he is also gay, is sociopathic tendency in married gay men not common as well? When I read the stories of the women in the book (“Straight Wives”), many of the men sound like sociopaths as well. Have you studied this phenomenon? Is it possible that gay men who choose to live the lie of married life are likely also socios?
To this, another Lovefraud reader, Leslie, commented:
On the third extended date I had with the SP, I turned to him one night, after we’d been together, and said, “Have you been with men?” Something in the way he’d made love made me think he had. He stared at the window and said in a monotone, “I have never made love to a man.” It was the same monotone he used to deny that he was living with a woman when I asked him that a year later. He was. I don’t have hard proof, but I know the guy had had sex with men.
Then alohatraveler commented:
I have heard from another victim of my sociopath that he was starting to get more “experimental” when she knew him. She knew him after me. He was expressing an interest in having sex with a man, but of course, with a woman present, because he was “not gay.” We both also saw an ad that he posted looking for sex with a transsexual. Then he placed an ad where he wanted a traditional type of woman.
“Not a gay bone in my body”
Shortly after I met my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, he proclaimed to me, “There’s not a gay bone in my body.” I had no reason to doubt him. But when I left him after two-and-a-half years, I learned a lot about his sexual activities:
- He had sex with at least six other women during our relationship.
- He was heavily into Internet porn.
- He solicited gay male prostitutes.
- He tried to arrange threesomes and looked for swinging couples.
In short, he wanted sexual thrills. The more different kinds of thrills, the better. I’m lucky I didn’t get a serious disease.
Screw anyone
Sociopaths are hard-wired for sex. They have an excessive need for stimulation, excitement and sensation. They also have no fear and no inhibitions. From a sexual perspective, that means a voracious appetite and anything goes.
Dr. Liane Leedom writes that sociopaths only want two things. One of them is power. The other is sex.
So when it comes to sexual orientation, I believe sociopaths are neither straight nor gay. In short, they’ll screw anyone.
Lovefraud has heard from gay individuals—men and women—who were involved in gay relationships with sociopaths. I asked several of them if they thought the sociopath was actually gay. They all agreed with my theory and said the sociopath was not gay.
Sex with an agenda
This does not mean, however, that sociopaths are out of control. On the contrary, to them, sex, and sexual orientation, is just something to be used in order to achieve their objective, whatever that is.
Perhaps the most egregious example of this is the case of James McGreevey, the former governor of New Jersey. McGreevey, you may recall, resigned from office after proclaiming in a news conference that he was a “gay American.”
The truth was that his political career was imploding under a series of scandals. As I wrote in a review of the book written by McGreevey’s wife, I believe the former governor played the gay card because it was the best way to spin his political collapse.
Sociopaths use people for sex, and use sex to get what they want. Anybody who suits their agenda will do.
If it suits their agenda to be married with children, then that’s what they’ll do. But if sociopaths indulge in same-sex relationships, in my opinion, it’s because they’re sociopaths, not gay.
distraught,
Sometimes we have to get stung a few more times to confirm for ourselves that that really is what it is and that we really don’t like that. It’s like touching a bench that has a sign that says “WET PAINT.” We know what wet paint is but we just have to check it out don’t we?
I can speak for myself though. It does eventually go all the way away. I found a letter today on my computer. It was titled “VENT” and it was something I wrote to the Bad Man. I wrote it when I was still mad as hell but didn’t quite understand what it was that happened between he and I. I guess I was still ruminating as Dr. Steve says. It was amazing to me how I see everything different now. I was just arguing in circles with the wind, to be honest. I never did send this letter because I did know by that time that it would only invite more attacks on me and I had had enough of that.
I cannot TELL you how I have struggled with whether or not he was toying with me the entire time. I can pin him on virtually every level of the characteristics of a sociopath EXCEPT his hurting intentionally. He was one of those S’s who was in no way outwardly abusive – it was all revealed later with many, many lies exposed and he went into the most apalling scapegoating, self-preservation mode that I have ever witnessed – downright subhuman is what it was. Not ready to go into my story yet, but I will say that it seems that while we all seem to have been with the same man, there are variations in our stories and my therapist pointed out something to me that has helped me a great deal as we were trying to figure out – was he a sociopath, malignant narcissist, borderline personality disorder, etc. He said “There is no such thing as a good clean disorder”. So, while there is no doubt in my mind that he is a sociopath, I also believe that he is one, completely messed up individual and to which degree he was any of the above mentioned disorders I will probably never know and whether or not he was laughing his way through it, I will never know. I just have to focus on what I DO know – and that is plenty for me to know that God knew what he was doing when he removed him from my life.
To enlightened,
Your therapist’s comment is word for word from a book I read but I can’t remember which one. I started by thinking the Bad Man was a Borderline, then a Narcissist, and then finally a Sociopath.
As far as I know, he did not think this our relationship and all the others following me were a game. He does think he is a victim of psychos. To him, women are psychos when they react to his attacks and fight back. He always played the victim of me. I couldn’t stand it!!! And I also spent hours, weeks, months… okay… at LEAST A YEAR trying to figure out how he was able to work this out in his mind… that he was a victim of ME!?
The Bad Man never asked me for any money although he did file an insurance claim against me when we had a minor fender bender. It was my fault and my car was damaged, his was barely visiably damaged but he did file a claim. It was not a claim that any normal person would file for a car with 175,000 miles on it. He just cashed in and my insurance hit the roof later. It was completely my fault and it was not a drama thing but it would be too hard to draw a diagram here. :o)
The way I see it, there are things about the Bad Man that are very exploitive. Since he was formerly a “missionary” I assume he was very good at raising money for his missions which involved a lot of fun cruising around tropical islands, eating coconuts and things like that.
I don’t think this whole thing is a game for the Bad Man and I also think he doesn’t know why he is mad all the time and why no one can measure up and why his demands on women are unreasonable and why people are so mad at him and ganging up on him and fighting back.. blah blah. I think he truly believes he is a victim of people. And I still think he is a sociopath even if he isn’t laughing.
Donna wrote this essay. It took me awhile to find it again but here is an essay on that very subject… what if they don’t show all the symptoms. In case you haven’t read this one, here it is.
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/10/07/if-someone-has-most-psychopathic-traits-its-reason-enough-to-leave/
Okay, I REALLY hope this goes to the ‘straight or gay’ blog – even though I originally thought I was posting to another blog altogether and totally messed it up 🙂 Anyhoo…
ALOHA TRAVELER…
Thank you for your response. That is exactly how I feel. The guy will NEVER be able to see himself as ‘evil’ in anyway. His brain is on autopilot to fix any thought that could cause him to look at himself in the mirror and not love what he sees. I know he is a liar and the most self-centered human being I have ever run across in my life. But, after almost a year of ruminating and talking to friends and family who know him well, he thought he was in love with me – the ‘affection’, if you will, was real. I was a narcissistic supply (read somewhere that they tend to ‘idealize’ their narcissistic supply – until they no longer fit that bill). I believe he adored me and idealized me until… another story. But the man turned on a dime and vilified me, jut as you said. And Mr. Wondeful couldn’t deal with what he had done. I don’t believe it even took his twisted mind more than 30 seconds to turn himself into the victim. But I am educated and aware enough to understand that it was about him the entire time. My feelings never counted – weren’t even on his radar. I have left out about a novels worth of info that I have learned about this man I called my best friend for 3 years. Sociopath.
Neither straight nor gay – If only I could have read these articles years ago. My X drank for the first 13 years of our marriage and caused me endless debts and trouble. I supported him to get off the drink but found a couple of years later that he was visiting car parks etc. I found this out when he actually took me to one. I refused to take part but he seemed to have a strange facination for men. He had always been heavily into porn. He got very abusive with me, and after testing me a few times he decided that ‘that side of our marriage was over’. I was very ill at this stage and didnt think things through.
I got a transplant and boy did I wake up. He was frequenting places, he had a girlfriend, the house was full of hardporn, and he was drinking again.
He decided to use violence at that stage to convince me he was normal and I was crazy.
I left after 30 years of marriage and have managed to sell the house but he is being very difficult doing things that a normal thinking person wouldnt dream of. He wont clear the house and wont give me the keys to do it.
This site has been a revelation to me and given me the strength to carry on. Thanks everyone Smokey
ok i need help because im dealing with a sociopath who refuses any form of sex/intimacy sleeping together any element of a relationship is gone….and in order to get those things I have to comply with the sociopaths requests and still don’t get them…he lives with me and it’s literally no contact…no touching no kissing nothing…no sleeping together…days with no contact and in order for me to have ‘contact’ with him I have to play this sick horrific game of asking, begging, asking getting rejected, asking…getting yelled at degraded called names…all for asking for a hug..or some physical contact….then it goes on and on…and then he asks me to wear certain thigns or dress a certain way, showr, shave, do this or that…just to get a hug or any form of affection…has anyone heard of this knid of horror before…being the victim of it it is beyond torture….the person is also physically abusive, just abusive in general…cheating having sex with everyone except his ‘gf’ into men def bisexual hits on anything aruond…will do anything….but makes his ‘gf’ jump thru hoops and suffer for any form of anything…
Melanie,
I had gone through something very similar to what you are describing.
For the first few months the s was insatiable sexually, he pressured to have sex all the time, at odd hours even when I had the flu. As soon as we moved in together, he was no longer interested in sex. I tried initiating every few weeks of so, but he would reject it. I felt like I was begging, it was humiliating so I stopped asking.
He would once in a blue moon initiate, but everything had to be on his terms. Laying a certain way, wearing certain things. For instance he liked me more “boyish” to have cropped hair, androgenous clothing. He never made any sounds during sex. He was also very aroused by aputees. He was corresponding with a number of amputee women on line. He even told me that he has offered one of them money. I asked “why” he could not give me a direct answer.
He rolled his eyes and grimaced if I tried to wear dresses, make up or nail polish.
He actually said humiliating things when I tried to wear a summer dress once. Nothing slutty.
He also had these super infatuated relationships with male friends. He idolized them and when they did not live up to his expectations, he discarded them. He was homophobic, but I think he was a latent homosexual, very ashamed and in denial.
When pleaded with him to talk to me and see what we can do about the lack of sex, he would get really angry and say things like ” sex is over-rated”, “things change, relationships change, it cannot be always like a honeymoon” I would feel so angry and frustrated because he never talk to me like a real person, he preached and lectured, even about sex.
The worse thing was is that he would have sex with me after watching cheap porn. Like the kind where women are aneroxic, drugged up and all body parts been through plastic surgery.
Few years after I was discarded I found out that he was seeing someone while we were still together. One of his students of course. They got married. It’s just matter of time before he discards her because she might start questioning him.
melanie:
I responded to your post under the “Sociopaths and Sex” thread.
You said “any element of a relationship is gone.”
That’s your starting place in making the decisions you have to make. When I realized there was no relationship left to save and that all I was to him was a source of supply, I did what I had to do to get rid of him. Or, as I put it “to get rid of a sociopath, become a sociopath.”
In other words, you shut off every human emotion you have towards this creature and view what your relationship solely in terms of supply and demand. If you cut off the supply, you immediately are assuming control. This is a fight for scarce resources, which I suspect are all under YOUR control.
My question to you is what do you supply him? With me, I was a personal ATM, social director and lawyer who provided social respectability. At the end, I took back my power because I decided I wanted my resources FOR MYSELF, and I was the one who was going to end it.
Don’t think he’ll give up easily — unless he has already lined up your replacement. That said, these creatures are infamous for running the “PITY PLAY.” They appeal to our pity. So, you’ve got to turn off your emotions and realize one thing — EVERYTHING IS A LIE WITH HIM. He has no feelings. So, you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do, no apologies.
melanie:
Meant say I responded earlier to your post under “Me Me Me…”
Ellejay:
Your story is exactly my story – I was with this S for 3 years, the sex was crazy, nothing was ever good enough for my S. He would go on craiglist have my picture out there – talk to couples and pretend as it was me.
It was easy for him to tell me what he wanted sexually because it was his fantasy. I fell for it more times than i count. Each time, thinking (after i do this, he is really going to love me, he wont ask me to do anything crazy now!) nope, nothing was ever good enuf.
he would tell me i was boring, when i would be at work, (he had nothing to do, but pretend like he was a recording artist making music) he would ask me to send him pictures of my body parts or ask me to tell him one of my wildest fantasies..now i realize he was showing all this stuff to his buddies.
he has videos of me! I’ve always considered myself an upstanding citizen (now, i feel like nothing but a broke WHORE). He has managed to manupilate me out of $30,000 , which he would always say he was going to pay me back (and i BELIEVED IT)
When, we finally were on the brink of breaking up, he let me see him do the unthinkable with another man (at this point, i was really thinking, we were going to bond now) since i saw this act – the part that gets me is that i still wanted to be with him after i saw him do this. (SICK). HOW ABOUT the next day he acted as if it never happened. Talked to me like it was another day in the park.
This is when i knew i had to break up with him. Finally, as i mentioned about i gave him $30,000 over a 3 year period, he came in my house (took everything he had ever given me) perfume, pocket books, worn shoes and sneakers, jewelry, and then to make matters worst, HE SPAT IN MY FACE.
Needless, to say, i havent seen him since, he did send me an email requesting me to meet up with him, to have his cell phone (which i was paying for, for the past 3 years) transfered to his name. not even caring that he spat in my face, and took everything he ever bought for me, while he walks away with $30,000 of mine that he owes me. i am broke, it sends me chills that i thought he was the man for me.
i never responded to him, i changed my cell phone, home phone, email address at work. complete NO CONTACT (its been 5 months) and i havent heard from him. His mom did call me to let me know that “my son said he has no hatred in his heart towards you”
I am like – you got to be kiddn me – He has a new victim now, and i hope he doesnt do to her what he has done to me:
finacially F#$! me, brain F#$!, sexually disgraced me and all of this is on video which he threatened he would show everybody where we live.
3 somes, 1 on 1s, his brother. I am not liking myself at all – why because i knew better, i wasnt raised like this and now, i have to get my mental, financances back and hope he doesnt disgrace me with the videos.