Many women have written to Lovefraud about husbands who they’ve come to believe are sociopaths. They were astounded to discover that, not only was the husband cheating, but he was having sex with men.
Lovefraud reader eyeswideshut writes about this in a recent comment to the post, After he’s gone: looking at the sociopath through open eyes. She asks:
Now that I know he is also gay, is sociopathic tendency in married gay men not common as well? When I read the stories of the women in the book (“Straight Wives”), many of the men sound like sociopaths as well. Have you studied this phenomenon? Is it possible that gay men who choose to live the lie of married life are likely also socios?
To this, another Lovefraud reader, Leslie, commented:
On the third extended date I had with the SP, I turned to him one night, after we’d been together, and said, “Have you been with men?” Something in the way he’d made love made me think he had. He stared at the window and said in a monotone, “I have never made love to a man.” It was the same monotone he used to deny that he was living with a woman when I asked him that a year later. He was. I don’t have hard proof, but I know the guy had had sex with men.
Then alohatraveler commented:
I have heard from another victim of my sociopath that he was starting to get more “experimental” when she knew him. She knew him after me. He was expressing an interest in having sex with a man, but of course, with a woman present, because he was “not gay.” We both also saw an ad that he posted looking for sex with a transsexual. Then he placed an ad where he wanted a traditional type of woman.
“Not a gay bone in my body”
Shortly after I met my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, he proclaimed to me, “There’s not a gay bone in my body.” I had no reason to doubt him. But when I left him after two-and-a-half years, I learned a lot about his sexual activities:
- He had sex with at least six other women during our relationship.
- He was heavily into Internet porn.
- He solicited gay male prostitutes.
- He tried to arrange threesomes and looked for swinging couples.
In short, he wanted sexual thrills. The more different kinds of thrills, the better. I’m lucky I didn’t get a serious disease.
Screw anyone
Sociopaths are hard-wired for sex. They have an excessive need for stimulation, excitement and sensation. They also have no fear and no inhibitions. From a sexual perspective, that means a voracious appetite and anything goes.
Dr. Liane Leedom writes that sociopaths only want two things. One of them is power. The other is sex.
So when it comes to sexual orientation, I believe sociopaths are neither straight nor gay. In short, they’ll screw anyone.
Lovefraud has heard from gay individuals—men and women—who were involved in gay relationships with sociopaths. I asked several of them if they thought the sociopath was actually gay. They all agreed with my theory and said the sociopath was not gay.
Sex with an agenda
This does not mean, however, that sociopaths are out of control. On the contrary, to them, sex, and sexual orientation, is just something to be used in order to achieve their objective, whatever that is.
Perhaps the most egregious example of this is the case of James McGreevey, the former governor of New Jersey. McGreevey, you may recall, resigned from office after proclaiming in a news conference that he was a “gay American.”
The truth was that his political career was imploding under a series of scandals. As I wrote in a review of the book written by McGreevey’s wife, I believe the former governor played the gay card because it was the best way to spin his political collapse.
Sociopaths use people for sex, and use sex to get what they want. Anybody who suits their agenda will do.
If it suits their agenda to be married with children, then that’s what they’ll do. But if sociopaths indulge in same-sex relationships, in my opinion, it’s because they’re sociopaths, not gay.
I have been told it was “craziness” we shared…. No I was fooled, gullible, in denial I did not trust my gut instinct, wearing rose colored glasses being “groomed… is it my fault I believed the lies… taken in by the lies…it seems easy to place the blame on us .. reminds me of Taylor Swifts song… 15 when someone tells you they love you , you ” believe ” them…it comes from our emotions…fairy tales, women are told to find a man to take care of them at least some families may or may not be telling their daughters this….we also need to educate young girls who can be easily influenced to “believe” them…..empower them now so they can stop the cycle of this kind of abuse….the worst kind..
Can someone answer this for me if a persons identity is one with (no soul) would that be the same thing as no conscience? …
Interesting question Spirit – lack of soul I think includes lack of conscience but also includes lack of empathy or humane tendencies. Sociopaths have been described as without souls and ‘soul eaters’ by various writers. Lack of conscience though is a combination of a few things – lack of guilt certainly – guilt helps us as we think of doing something and after we have done something. Guilt helps us learn right from wrong in practical situations – say we’re thinking “I might burgle a house” then when we think of it we might get a twinge of guilt at the people it could affect and the wrongness of it.
If we did burgle the house we might suffer a mix of guilt and fear – guilt for doing something we know is wrong and fear of being caught for it. Conscience as it applies to sociopaths I think also involves the idea of measured thinking. Most people t hink through the consequences of particular actions and are able to think “If I do that then I will feel guilty”. But sociopaths are impulsive – Liane Leedom has written about this. So they don;t get that chance to think ahead and consider what they might feel.
To my mind the soul is the highest part within us – the part that is able to appreciate beautiful music, a stunning flower, emotion expressed in a deep relationship. The soul is a huge concept – the inner Godhead I think. The part that strives to overcome the burdens of the flesh and the daily toil to keep body and soul together. Sociopaths lack this aspect because of their lack of empathy and humanity and their flat affect. They are unable to experience the full rainbow spectrum of human emotion … so maybe they have souls but they are undeveloped? Soul is such an ethereal concept … great question though
And you’re dead right – it doesn’t always take two to tango. Sometimes one person declares a covert war against the other and arms themselves to the hilt while the other opens themselves completely not expecting attack. That glib phrase makes me so cross – it flies in the face of the reality we all know with these people. And yet there is a grain of truth there too – our tango steps were in staying there to take the abuse because we didn’t recognise it for what it was – we believed the excuses we were fed ‘I’m just tired’ “I’m stressed at work” “I moved the money to the other account”
And yes believing in the fairytale of happy ever after certainly leaves women vulnerable to this sort of dynamic – we should be reading girls stories about princesses who kick ass 🙂
Donna,
As I read my way through LF, this really screamed out at me.
There were signs early but I never caught on or had even a clue until I found him on a site 3 years ago looking for sex and listed as “bicurious”.
Then, I looked at all of the other signs that finally lit up for me in neon lights;
his addiction to the adult dating sites
his preoccupation with certain kinds of sex I would not agree to.
his addiction to internet porn. I put a key stroke logger on the computer and found him not looking at pictures of women AND men.
Discovering that he had visited porn shops, almost on a daily basis, looking for men and women.
His enormous addiction to sex and anything related to it.
All the time I was confronting him with this, he said it was just a “phase”. Right.
Yes, they WILL screw anyone. In my ex’s case, I know today he is indeed bisexual. I also feel that myself and the child we had were nothing more than a screen for him to hide behind.
spirit and pollyanna, For a long time, I’ve been calling my ex a spiritual vampire, who thought nothing of sucking my soul dry. Through a plan, and I DO believe everything he did was premeditated, he slowly but surely took everything, right down to draining my soul. I believe my ex has a very tarnished soul, inflicted and infected with his personality disorder which is why he latched on to mine.
pollyanna, you are VERY correct. It doesn’t take 2 to tango at all. Mine declared war against me and it was a plan all along. A lot of little battles were won by him, but in the end I won the war.
Thanks Pollyannanomore… your response to my question makes perfect sense to me . I appreciate the time you took to help me understand the complexing question for me. =)
I’m reading all of this and forwarding bits to my brother. his wife is a major S/P, and she’s pulled so much of this on him from “you can’t sleep in the same part of the house as me” to hitting on one of my gay gal pals at a party- and no knowing she was my friend- actually telling her she was living with a woman in Provincetown, MA, but was on vacation- and that they were in an open relationship. We later found that she does indeed have a second life in Massachusetts with another woman, involving two children.
My brother is constantly praised at how wonderful he is in bed, and having a wife say “Let’s bring another woman in for fun” now and then has made him a happy guy-but that’s the only time they EVER spend together. he says that is the only time they ever sleep together, less than he can remember. It usually is right around the time this woman finds ways to get money, or is trying to get out of trouble with something she pulled at work (she was fired last year for embezzlement, got someone ELSE fired for it who wasn’t at fault, but managed to get another job at another brokerage and somehow seems to be doing the SAME thing without retribution by law or anyone else). We still don’t know how she isn’t in jail, or what her life was like before she met my brother because she’s changed that story at least a dozen times.
My brother’s cars have been “stolen”, and we are convinced she’s given them to people she’s sleeping with because one has Onstar and was found with a baby seat, in the same town we think her other life is. She’s managed to empty his bank account three or four times that he’s admitted to- but he won’t divorce her because he is “committed to make the relationship work, like he promised”, (he has a son from the previous marriage, his late wife was amazing and wonderful, and died of ovarian cancer when she was 32).
His son was taken shopping by this woman once and left in a car for 4 hours- when she was in the ‘red light’ district of our city. The cops found the boy- just five years old, sitting in a car surrounded by prostitutes who were trying to give him candy through the window. Her excuse was she needed to “burn off some energy” and visited a brothel to do it. I go to the gym, or walk our dogs.
I live in a different state. My best friend has tried to help my brother see the issues with this woman but he is convinced that my brother must be scared to death of what this woman will pull if he leaves her. He just is afraid of having his son lose another mother figure and he is, in effect, alone, but she appears at his work related events- and it makes him look good to this bosses. (you know the charm and the sickening sucking up behavior works well on bankers). It’s only been three years of this woman, but I know it’s going to get worse. My best friend, who went to school with my brother, is hoping to help him snap out of it- whatever spell she has him under. I’m just afraid that unless my nephew says “I hate her”, she’s going to be around forever. The S/P appeared just after the funeral of my sister-in-law, and seemed to hone in on my brother- as if she saw a Lexus in her future. Sadly, she was right.
Donna,
I would have to agree with you. I think they are ‘anything goes’. I began to wonder if both my PX’s were secretly gay. I started paying attention to my last X’s habits/behaviors and found[it seemed] he wanted to respond to anything sexual and EVERYONE seemed to be a potential sexual conquest for him. Older, younger [I mean possibly children], different races, attractiveness seemed to not matter to either one of them as long as some type of ‘thrill’ could be gotten from it.. freaks even!! I never was subjected to any of it…as he knew I would never agree, participate or condone such behavior. I know my daughter by him who can read him like a book said he is the type that is anything.[this was all hidden till the last few years and he began to act weirder and weirder]. And from what I have heard over the years both my X’s went on to engage in just about everything thought of: possibly including beastality. The depths some of these disordered people fall into…really shocks/scares me. No wonder we are sitting ducks for these people…they cross lines most of us never even heard of!! *shudder!
siennaseenya:
“He just is afraid of having his son lose another mother figure…”
If your brother believes this he is seriously deluded and I would love to sit down with him and personally disabuse him of this notion.
My father was an S and my mother was a malignant N. The damage these 2 wreaked on their 3 children is incalcualble and immeasurable. 2 of us appear to the outside world as successful professionals (and the third, a conman, can appear successful when he’s clipped someone for millions, which he’s done). However, the three of have spent a lifetime lurching from one disastrous relationship to the next because what a child learns at the hands of a N/S/P parent is not trust and love and self-worth.
Rather, the child of a N/S/P has no self-worth, because these users convince a child that he is worthless except to the extent that he can be used to further the objectives of the N/S/P. The child of an N/S/P has no self esteem and lacks boundaries because the child of a N/S/P learns to give in to the N/S/P, no matter what the cost, in the futile attempt to make the N/S/P happy. The child of an N/S/P never learns to trust, since a N/S/P parent does nothing toc earn a child’s trust with their unreliability, self-centeredness, manipulative behavior and lying. And the child of an N/S/P never learns to love, because the child of a N/S/P has it drilled into his head on a daily basis that he is unloveable.
And what is the end result of the N/S/P brand of mothering/fathering? The sad resdult is that the child of a sociopath or any other cluster B disorder ends up feeling as empty as the sociopath does himself.
Yeah, your brother is doing his kid a real favor. Give him a gun and tell him to put the kid out of its misery now rather than let the S “mother” kill him slowly. It will be more kind in the end and the kid will thank him.
Also, you said your brother is “committed to make the relationship work, like he promised…”. Oh, how well I know that song. Hell, it’s not a song, it is an opera. I was a one man Salvation Army as far as my S was concerned. I was his lawyer, his social director, his lover and his ATM. The emotional and financial bleeding was endless. And why did I stick around? Because I was determined to win back that wonderful man I fell in love with. Problem is, he never existed. He was an illusion. I would knock myself out trying to get him into therapy, couples counseling, etc. No takers — except when he sensed that I was at the end of my rope, and then he’d sing his song about how “You’re right. I’ve been running from my problems and need to go into therapy.” It was a crock of shit. As soon as I did what he wanted/gave him the money/took him on the trip, he’d revert to his lying, thieving, manipulative, cheating ways.
I was involved with my S 15 months. It was 15 months too long. I got rid of him 15 months ago. 7 months ago I met a wonderful man who has taught me what trust and love is all about.
Your brother needs to look at this relationship in dollar and cents. I’m sure he’ll find what I did at the end of the day — he’s making 100 percent investment and getting 0 percent return. I hope he cuts his losses while there is still time – to save both his and his son’s lives.
To All – who agree that they are neither gay or straight but rather “anything gos” – its crazy. My S was down for anything and everything.
i would come home and he would say “i want you to see something” hoping that I would be into it…. it would make me sick to my stomach – he would watch people have sex with animals – and pretend not to like it.
He would watch gay porn – and then protest after watching it – I WOULD NEVER LET A MAN TOUCH ME…(not true, cuz i saw it with my own two).
the sick part is, i some time miss this jerk, who stole EVERYTHING from me. I am healing but the sh##! hurts!
I am broke, totally broke in DEBT – i took good care of this man – just like he was child!
and yes, i cant seem to get over it – HE SPAT IN MY FACE! with a dead look in his eyes – YUCK, YUCK YUCK
I HAVE TO GET OVER THIS AND I WILL.
hedidntbreakme…You WILL get over this. The Betrayal Bond book helped me a lot. Part of it is online at http://www.enotalone.com/article/4291.html. Women Who Love Psychopaths also helped me. I read the e-version, second edition. Also a big help was the book The Emotional Rape Syndrome. You miss him because you bonded. YOU don’t fake love. YOUR love was real. So of course you miss who you thought you were in love with. And your brain chemicals and hormones bonded you and fear and secrecy also create some of the strongest bonds….hence the phenomena of “foxhole friends” from times of war or “Stockholm syndrome” when victims fell in love with their kidnappers. Put the shame and blame on him…NONE of this would have happened without him. Keep reading. You will break through all the types of bonds holding you, as long as you stay no contact.
thank you Justabouthealed. i will read this resources – lawd knows i need help. there has been NC for the past 5 months (and i had no idea i was dealing with S)
I just knew it was time for me to run – after the spitting incident.
I was reading an article about NC – and one thing it also included was not to go searching for the character on facebook and myspace….i was doing so well with the NC until i went on his myspace page (why, to see what he was doing)
Of course, he has a picture of his new victim first and foremost as the first pic on his page. He NEVER had a pic of me on myspace with him. the sh##T hurt so bad. He always made me feel unattractive, but others always seem to think i was attractive and he would hear them say it to me but no no no he always wanted me to think i was an ugly duckling. he WOULD NEVER TAKE A PIC OF ME AND POST IT ON MYSPACE.
so thats why i feel stuck again because eventhough, i didnt speak to him, i went looking for him on the internet and there is was him and his new women. HIS EYES LOOKED LIKE THE DEVIL IN THE PICTURE.
I AM GOING TO GET BETTER. TRY TO GET OUT OF THIS EMOTIONAL FUNK I AM IN AND GET OUT OF DEBT, i was in a good place financially and mentally before i met him. just got outa of a divorce and i was feeln good. until this clown fooled me.