Lovefraud received the following e-mail recently from a reader, who we’ll call “Iris.” She was married for 20 years to a man who she now realizes is a sociopath.
I avoid talking to my ex-husband as much as possible, but he is 4 months behind on court ordered spousal support as I am in school getting my business degree and working. He has to pay $600 a month for 3 years. The court also ordered the support to pay me back for $11,000 I had to put into our house and property to make it “sellable” after he left me in the dust and moved to another state. He left me with 5 acres, a house falling apart, a barn with code violations, and our 3 family dogs. I went into survival mode and got it all fixed and sold and re-homed all of my dogs (who I love and miss very much) through a wonderful adoption agency. He also owes me for a mortgage reimbursement check he forged my signature on and cashed after he talked the mortgage co. into sending it to him in Calif. I filed a police report.
I was hoping you could help me. I e-mailed him with the threat of taking him to court and he called several times before I answered. I try to avoid talking to him because I always feel I am being manipulated. Within our conversation, he was mean, evil, nice, ugly and caring and same old guy. I brought up that I know how he operates and that it took distance for a lengthy period of time to see that he was a sociopath and smooth talker and that his agenda is to “win” and manipulate. I said many other things also. HE ADMITTED THAT HE OPERATES DIFFERENTLY AND DOESNT FEEL THE SAME AS OTHERS. I was blown away. The only other time that he ever came close to this was when I was about to leave him several years ago when I found out he was cheating on me again. His exact words were, “I can’t help it; I’ve always gotten a RUSH out of getting away with stuff. It’s been like that since I was a kid.”
I guess what I “need” to know is, why did that hit me so hard? Why did it make me so emotional when he said he operates differently? Why did it make me feel sorry for him? Why do I feel so exhausted and why can’t I stop crying now? Does his admission make it that much more real? Did the reality that he really is a sociopath and my whole marriage was meaningless overwhelm me? I have been divorced for a year and a half and apart from him since Nov. 2008. We have a 21-year-old son. We have not even had to communicate much.
All I know is, I am still affected in a very dark way because of being with him for so long. I’ve been to a psychologist once a week for quite a while. It helps, but she doesn’t KNOW what it actually feels like. Do you have any words of wisdom to help me move on? I am ok most of the time, but I don’t trust anyone and can’t even think about dating. I feel paralyzed sometimes and felt that way throughout my long marriage. I still find myself resorting back to thinking, “maybe it was me.” Am I damaged for life? I am usually pretty busy, but when I have time on my hands, things still get dark and I am tired of feeling like this.
Extreme difference
One of the hardest things to wrap our brains around is the extreme degree to which sociopaths are different from us.
On the home page of Lovefraud.com, I state that sociopaths have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. Think about it. Sociopaths are missing all the qualities that make up the core of our humanity.
This is why coming to terms with the idea that sociopaths exist is so difficult. In order to grasp the concept of sociopaths, we have to give up some of our most cherished beliefs about what it means to be a human being living in our society.
Exploding myths
In our society, we may have differing points of views as old or young, men or women, liberals or conservatives, religious or secular, management or labor, or any other polarity. Still, some cultural ideas are so widespread, and so entrenched, that they are regarded as axioms.
When sociopaths are factored in, however, these axioms are nothing but exploding myths. Here are a few:
1. We all want to be loved. Sociopaths don’t care about love. They don’t even feel love. They certainly do not feel empathy for fellow human beings. When they appear to be acting out of love, it is probably nothing but manipulation, a tactic to advance their agenda. Sociopaths only want three things: power, control and sex.
2. There’s good in everyone. This, unfortunately, is not true. There are people in the world who are rotten to the core, and they’re the sociopaths. But unaware of the inherent evil of these predators, we believe that everyone deserves a chance, a second chance, and even more chances. Sociopaths milk this belief by promising to reform, but they never do.
3. Parents love their children. Most of us probably believe that, even if our childhoods were imperfect, our parents loved us and did the best they could. We don’t want to consider the idea that some parents simply don’t care about their kids. But if sociopaths have any concern about their children, it’s roughly equivalent to the concern they feel for an inanimate possession, like a flat screen TV. There is no real love.
4. Truth and justice will prevail. Many of us end up in legal battles with sociopaths, such as filing for divorce or claiming fraud. We approach the legal system assuming that we’ll get a fair hearing and justice will be served. But for sociopaths, court is show time. They lie to suit their agendas, and judges either don’t see it, or don’t care. Court isn’t about truth, it’s about winning, and sociopaths are wired to win.
5. We should live according to the Golden Rule. “Do to others what you would like them to do to you—”this rule of ethics is at the center of every major religious tradition. But if the “others” are sociopaths, living by the Golden Rule sets us up to be exploited. Treating them as we want to be treated, we’ll eventually find ourselves drained, and the sociopath on to a new source of supply.
Recovery
So how do we deal with the loss of what we thought were unshakeable truths? I think recovery has three aspects to it.
1. We accept that they are what they are. It is extremely unlikely that any sociopath, by the time he or she is an adult, is going to change. We must give up feeling guilty, or responsible, or even concerned. We may need to release grief or anger over what happened to us, but we must realize that there is nothing we can do about them.
2. We are grateful that we are not them. Although sociopaths probably don’t realize it, theirs is an empty, barren existence. They do not feel love, they do not feel human connection, they do not feel the warmth of belonging to anything. We may be in pain, and temporarily feel paralyzed, but we can recover our humanity. They don’t have a chance.
3. We resolve never to be exploited again. Now we know that sociopaths exist. We know how they think. We know how they act. We will never lose this knowledge, and knowledge is power. We take back our power, establish our boundaries and move forward.
Yes, the experience of a sociopath rattles us to the core. But it is possible to learn from it, gather ourselves and live again, with much more wisdom than we had before the nasty encounter.
Dear Grandmother,
I know it probably felt good to hang up on your daughter, but in all honesty, there is no way you can get her to “understand” what he is or to CARE what she is. Part of the entire thing they think and feel is that NOTHING IS EVER THEIR FAULT. It is your fault (as far as they are concerned.) When my P son was 17 I called the cops and turned him in because he had taken my car in the middle of the night to use to haul the loot from the robbery of the business of a friend of ours….and he was FURIOUS at me “betraying” him! LOL
He was mad at ME for “betraying HIM”????? Of course he was not at fault for STEALING MY CAR, or robbing a friend’s business and shutting their business down for weeks because he stole their computers. Of course not. Then when he got arrested for robbery less than a year later it was also my fault because I had turned him in for the previous robbery! DUH…then 2 1/2 years later when he killed a girl and got sent to prison for that, it was STILL my fault because if I had not turned him in at age 17, he wouldn’t have killed her at age 20?????
My P son has not lived in my home since he was 17, he just turned 40 two weeks ago. He has really not been a part of my life except in my “fantasy” like some long distance relationship. He is for all practical purposes a STRANGER to me. I used to have a little boy that was a sweet heart, then I had a teenager who was a pain in the butt and couldn’t be controlled….then there was a man, a man who is and was a STRANGER TO ME that somehow I let him convince me I owed him something….no matter what he did to whom….just because I had once given birth to a little boy who was no longer around, who was gone.
But I realized finally that the STRANGER, the MAN in the cell is not my little boy, not my baby, and not even the troubled teenager, he is an EVIL man, a KILLER….and he is just where he deserves to be. PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE, I HOPE.
Grandmother, I know you love your grandkids, but just be aware that your STRANGER WOMAN will use them against you, hurting them in order to just get back at you for what she thinks you OWE HER….in reality you owe her nothing, but she believes you owe her everything. You can’t change that. As long as you do not expect her to change, maybe you can deal with it and see your grandkids, but she will make you and them “pay for” that in “emotional blood.” That is what they are and what they do. They are EVIL. God bless.
Oxy do you think that my grand children’ s life will be more safe with me out of the picture. I think his goal is to make there life miserable weather I am in the picture or not. He will control them as long as she keeps letting him because she gets off on his control. Those boys life will not be good with or without me in there lives. Me being in there lives at least makes them feel they are not alone. Even if they are dead afraid to talk to me like the middle one is. He hugs me with all he can but says nothing. I choose to stay in the same town and not let them drive me out of my town do you think I made the wrong choice for my grandchildren. It was a hard choice to make but I could not leave them alone to the wolves. I also know both evil ones did not get a word I say but it felt good to tell her anyway. I have given up on her getting it or I would still be grieving for her. I do not blame myself for everything anymore. I realized that she is not the only narcissist in our family. I now face that it is inherited. My oldest sister is the same way all about herself and so was my grandmother. I have excepted that I can not change her and wasted to many years trying. I will be glad when my grandchildren grow up because then I will completely stay nc. And yes They are Evil.Very Evil. Thank you
Dear Grandmother,
I wish I had a crystal ball and could answer your question….I know those kids are not going to be “safe” no matter what…as long as he and their mother are around those kids will be emotionally abused and who knows how else. If you can see your grandkids without too much drama I think you being in their lives is a good thing, and you can tell them, “Grandma is here for you, and I will always love you, no matter what.” That has got to be something very valuable to a child to know that there is at least ONE person in the world who loves them…so on that score, I think it is important that you stay in contact with them.
How to do it so that they are abused the least amount by your dtr and the man, that is a question that only you can answer.
I wish I did have a crystal ball that would tell me what is the best way to proceed…sometimes, it seems like there just is not perfect answer and we have to just do the best we can. God bless! (((hugs)))
Thank you for your advice Oxy. I will not go over there any more than I have to and would not go there at all if the baby was in school. Seeing the boys at school now and again works for me. It also lets them know that I love them and I am not as crazy as the paths lead them to believe. I really do not like calling her my daughter anymore. As you say about your son she is a stranger whom I do not know or want to know. My daughter is dead! That stranger in her body will no longer get anything from me dead or alive. The only ones I will help is those boys. Praise the lord I saw the light and she is his problem know he can be her judge.Hugs to you too!
Dear Grandmother,
My friend in Florida whose P son wouldn’t let her see her Granddaughter after she had been primary caregiver for the child from age birth to age 8–she went to the girl’s school and volunteered in order to see her. Her son now has a new child by his new wife age 1-2, and the girl is now 15-16 (can’t remember exactly) and finally my friend gets to spend more time with her, as she made friends with the girl’s crazy mother who let my friend see the girl on her “alternate weekends”—my friend has no relationship with the baby, but she does have a good relationship with the girl. Even though the girl knows her father Is cruel, and her mother is a borderline personality disorder (rages and fake suicide gestures) the girl herself is according to my friend, doing very well. VERY WELL. My friend has managed to be there for her granddaughter using every trick in the book and it probably saved this girl’s life and sanity! So hang in there and do what you can to keep in the lives of at least the older children since you already have a relationship with them. With the baby being so young and it difficult for you to even see him, it may be that for now you might want to concentrate on the older kids and sort of let the “heat die down” about going over to her house. Just keep praying for them and spend as much time with them as you can.
It isn’t easy when the child we love is gone, replaced by a toxic stranger who looks like them…but I think you are definitely on the right path. (((hugs))) and God bless you and your grandchildren.
Grandmother,
I know you’re only human and instinctively spoke to her as if she was human too. i did that for my sis but it fell on deaf ears, I think. What I’ve figured out is that spaths don’t speak to us out of emotions like what we have. They are out for something, so when she asked you what she had ever done to you, she was FISHING for information on what your hooks/weaknesses were. You gave her two: lack of respect and taking your grandchildren.
Grandmother, never, ever show your cards to the spaths. Never speak with them with any emotion and don’t tell them how they have hurt you. Be gray rock when you speak with her.
I know she USED to be your daughter, but now she has been bitten by the vampire spath and she turned into one too.
((hugs))
sky
Thank you both of you I think you have both given me very good advice
Hugs
grand mother
Dear Grandmother,
Sky is right on this one for sure. If you tell them how they have hurt you, then they KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO DO IT AGAIN!
Even if they were to “say sorry”—it is only words not sincere, and you can bet they will do the exact sme thing again.
My P son STOLE FROM ME, and stole from our friends, and used my car (stolen from me) to haul the loot and then he gets MAD AT ME because I call the cops and turn him in. I HAVE BETRAYED HIM!!!! WTF? He didn’t “betray me” first by stealing my car, robbing my friends? NOT IN HIS MIND…..In his mind, I was the one who BETRAYED POOR HIM. I had explained to him (this was years after the fact) that it was my last ditch effort to keep him from doing something stupid and going to prison or having an adult felony record (he was still 17 at the time and his record would have been sealed when he turned 18) I asked him “what could I have done to stop you from wrecking your life?” He looked at me (this conversation took place BTW after he was arrested for MURDER and he was in prison for that murder) He looked at me and said “Well, I don’t know what you should have done, but you should NOT have turned me in.” The look on his face was one of OUT RAGE. LOL
Yea, he betrayed me by stealing my car, stealing from me (family) and from my friends, but I wasn’t supposed to do anything to him about it except say “bad boy, don’t do that again.” LOL But they learn what our “weaknesses are” they learn what they can do to hurt us most and THAT IS WHAT THEY DO. Your daughter knows that your grandchildren are your “weak point” because you love them so she will use that as much as she can to hurt you—doesn’t matter to her if she hurts THEM in the process, as long as she can HURT YOU. Respect? She doesn’t even know what it means, but she knows that if she talks to you “ugly” she hurts you, so guess what? THAT IS WHAT SHE WILL DO because she knows it will hurt you. She is in CONTROL of the situation because she has all the CARDS—the KIDS and RESPECT and what can you do about it? Go NC? Well if you go NC then you hurt yourself more because you deprive yourself of seeing the kids. CATCH 22 for you. NO WIN for you.
It is like someone HAS KIDNAPPED someone or something we love and holds them for RANSOM. If we pay we lose, and if we don’t pay we lose. My egg donor tried holding money over my head as an obligation (she offered to “give” me money if I needed it) I declined which meant she couldn’t give me a “gift” and then hold it over my head….so then she tried the other tactic and that was to drive me away from my home which I did love….what she didn’t realize was, that while I love my home, I am not longer TIED to it and would GLADLY leave here and live in a shelter before I would live in fear again. There is no more “hold” that she has over me that I will sacrifice “anything” for.
Your x-daughter has control over those kids and she knows that she has a control over YOU through them.
I saw a show on 20:20 last night about a man whose Italian x wife who had lost custody in the US for GROSS ABUSE kidnapped their young son and took him to Italy even though he has FULL custody in the US. The Italian courts have limited the child’s contact with his father and over 4 years the child has been whipped to and fro and terrified. The father has gone deeply into debt and spent his entire life for the past 4 years trying to establish a relationship with his son who now no longer speaks much English, but the P wife continues to use the child as a pawn, a possession…and the father continues to lose precious time with his son that he loves above all else. While the child grows up, confused and in fear of losing his “home” with his uncle who is fostering him.
I don’t know if you saw the one where the woman kidnapped the child and went to Brazil, remarried and then died a year or so later and the new husband’s family who were wealthy and well connected kept the kid and fought him from going back to US to his biological father for five years. Last year with the help of the state department, the father finally got his son back to the US. At what cost to the children? It is heart breaking that psychopaths can play this game and TIME is on their side, and the children suffer in insecurity in the meantime.
God bless you Grandmother…you are in my prayers. (((hugs)))
Any advice girls on how to have NC when there are innocent little kids involved? I am so afraid if I cross my spath…..she will Casey Anthony me…..I have to fly a little beneath her radar just to visit the kids…..but I always have my guard up…..she is 35 years old now….and she seems to be getting better at her games !!! As I get older it seems harder to stay ahead of her…..her life is like a nightmare….within 3 days of last week she got fired (again, for taking the kids to work with her) she had a wreck and totalled out her son’s car, she got thrown out by her landlord and has gathered up enough money by playing victim to move. She lives like a gypsy ….moves, trashes the place, gets thrown out….leaves most of her possesions behind and goes and buys all new stuff with money she does not have….it’s the same pattern….and of course she drags her 4 innocent little children with her!!! I wish I never had to lay eyes on her again, but have to stay somewhat connected because of the kids……I am always stressed and on “high alert”….Love you all……
Dear Creampuff,
I wish I had a crystal ball or a magic wand so I could fix this or give you a guar-un-teeed RIGHT answer! But I don’t and I can’t.
I understand your fear of the “casey anthony” reflex response.
First off you have “got it” that she is going to continue to repeat this pattern and you recognize what the pattern is. Secondly, you know that there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO CHANGE THIS…. and next you know that you love these kids, but you are POWERLESS to do a darned thing about what is going on…that you love them but you have to do it from a “distance” that is safe for you and them.
I wish I had an answer but the only answer I can have is that you stay as close as you can safely stay to the kids and take care that you don’t “incite” her to violence against them in order for her to get revenge on you. And you PRAY, AND PRAY HARD AND OFTEN! ((((HUGS))))) and God bless.