Lovefraud received the following e-mail recently from a reader, who we’ll call “Iris.” She was married for 20 years to a man who she now realizes is a sociopath.
I avoid talking to my ex-husband as much as possible, but he is 4 months behind on court ordered spousal support as I am in school getting my business degree and working. He has to pay $600 a month for 3 years. The court also ordered the support to pay me back for $11,000 I had to put into our house and property to make it “sellable” after he left me in the dust and moved to another state. He left me with 5 acres, a house falling apart, a barn with code violations, and our 3 family dogs. I went into survival mode and got it all fixed and sold and re-homed all of my dogs (who I love and miss very much) through a wonderful adoption agency. He also owes me for a mortgage reimbursement check he forged my signature on and cashed after he talked the mortgage co. into sending it to him in Calif. I filed a police report.
I was hoping you could help me. I e-mailed him with the threat of taking him to court and he called several times before I answered. I try to avoid talking to him because I always feel I am being manipulated. Within our conversation, he was mean, evil, nice, ugly and caring and same old guy. I brought up that I know how he operates and that it took distance for a lengthy period of time to see that he was a sociopath and smooth talker and that his agenda is to “win” and manipulate. I said many other things also. HE ADMITTED THAT HE OPERATES DIFFERENTLY AND DOESNT FEEL THE SAME AS OTHERS. I was blown away. The only other time that he ever came close to this was when I was about to leave him several years ago when I found out he was cheating on me again. His exact words were, “I can’t help it; I’ve always gotten a RUSH out of getting away with stuff. It’s been like that since I was a kid.”
I guess what I “need” to know is, why did that hit me so hard? Why did it make me so emotional when he said he operates differently? Why did it make me feel sorry for him? Why do I feel so exhausted and why can’t I stop crying now? Does his admission make it that much more real? Did the reality that he really is a sociopath and my whole marriage was meaningless overwhelm me? I have been divorced for a year and a half and apart from him since Nov. 2008. We have a 21-year-old son. We have not even had to communicate much.
All I know is, I am still affected in a very dark way because of being with him for so long. I’ve been to a psychologist once a week for quite a while. It helps, but she doesn’t KNOW what it actually feels like. Do you have any words of wisdom to help me move on? I am ok most of the time, but I don’t trust anyone and can’t even think about dating. I feel paralyzed sometimes and felt that way throughout my long marriage. I still find myself resorting back to thinking, “maybe it was me.” Am I damaged for life? I am usually pretty busy, but when I have time on my hands, things still get dark and I am tired of feeling like this.
Extreme difference
One of the hardest things to wrap our brains around is the extreme degree to which sociopaths are different from us.
On the home page of Lovefraud.com, I state that sociopaths have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. Think about it. Sociopaths are missing all the qualities that make up the core of our humanity.
This is why coming to terms with the idea that sociopaths exist is so difficult. In order to grasp the concept of sociopaths, we have to give up some of our most cherished beliefs about what it means to be a human being living in our society.
Exploding myths
In our society, we may have differing points of views as old or young, men or women, liberals or conservatives, religious or secular, management or labor, or any other polarity. Still, some cultural ideas are so widespread, and so entrenched, that they are regarded as axioms.
When sociopaths are factored in, however, these axioms are nothing but exploding myths. Here are a few:
1. We all want to be loved. Sociopaths don’t care about love. They don’t even feel love. They certainly do not feel empathy for fellow human beings. When they appear to be acting out of love, it is probably nothing but manipulation, a tactic to advance their agenda. Sociopaths only want three things: power, control and sex.
2. There’s good in everyone. This, unfortunately, is not true. There are people in the world who are rotten to the core, and they’re the sociopaths. But unaware of the inherent evil of these predators, we believe that everyone deserves a chance, a second chance, and even more chances. Sociopaths milk this belief by promising to reform, but they never do.
3. Parents love their children. Most of us probably believe that, even if our childhoods were imperfect, our parents loved us and did the best they could. We don’t want to consider the idea that some parents simply don’t care about their kids. But if sociopaths have any concern about their children, it’s roughly equivalent to the concern they feel for an inanimate possession, like a flat screen TV. There is no real love.
4. Truth and justice will prevail. Many of us end up in legal battles with sociopaths, such as filing for divorce or claiming fraud. We approach the legal system assuming that we’ll get a fair hearing and justice will be served. But for sociopaths, court is show time. They lie to suit their agendas, and judges either don’t see it, or don’t care. Court isn’t about truth, it’s about winning, and sociopaths are wired to win.
5. We should live according to the Golden Rule. “Do to others what you would like them to do to you—”this rule of ethics is at the center of every major religious tradition. But if the “others” are sociopaths, living by the Golden Rule sets us up to be exploited. Treating them as we want to be treated, we’ll eventually find ourselves drained, and the sociopath on to a new source of supply.
Recovery
So how do we deal with the loss of what we thought were unshakeable truths? I think recovery has three aspects to it.
1. We accept that they are what they are. It is extremely unlikely that any sociopath, by the time he or she is an adult, is going to change. We must give up feeling guilty, or responsible, or even concerned. We may need to release grief or anger over what happened to us, but we must realize that there is nothing we can do about them.
2. We are grateful that we are not them. Although sociopaths probably don’t realize it, theirs is an empty, barren existence. They do not feel love, they do not feel human connection, they do not feel the warmth of belonging to anything. We may be in pain, and temporarily feel paralyzed, but we can recover our humanity. They don’t have a chance.
3. We resolve never to be exploited again. Now we know that sociopaths exist. We know how they think. We know how they act. We will never lose this knowledge, and knowledge is power. We take back our power, establish our boundaries and move forward.
Yes, the experience of a sociopath rattles us to the core. But it is possible to learn from it, gather ourselves and live again, with much more wisdom than we had before the nasty encounter.
To Everyone –
I have spent the last 3 days reading the posts on here and want to acknowlege everyone’s pain, everyone’s acceptance, and everyone’s recovery regardless of where we are all on the ladder. WE ARE HERE AND NOW!
those that have been here for awhile and the news ones I see coming in. WE ARE HERE NOW!
This is a place of comfort for me – I am not alone! that in itself is huge. The knowledge, the information – all of it…
I don’t own a computer so I use the one here at work and read when I can and take the time to post when I have even more time.
I know the damage a computer can cause – now. and just like I won’t the xSpath in my life or my home, neither will I let the computer in. Very little info out there for him to know about me. As I know for a fact he is cyberstalking me.
Knowledge is power and ignorance is sometimes bliss.
The NC Rule is the best rule – it is like a bad drug. Yes it hurts – Yes we wonder – Yes it’s the best thing we can do for ourselves.
Nonaction – exactly what the alligators and snakes can’t stand! no acknowledgment – (do I know you? no – never did, never will – don’t really want to try to anymore)
Even for our children parents friends – they are responsible for their own choices and the fact that sometimes they can say “I know there’s something wrong with me”, well, yeah it’s just words. dust in the wind. Show me by action – you will never see one looking on this website or posting anything against us.
As for loving them?? Well – that’s God’s job. not ours. we have to love ourselves.
I wish I could say more – but time to go home.
Thank you everyone! God Bless! Hugs out!
WE ARE HERE!
Dear Sheila Leanne,
Welcome to LF and am glad that you are here…and glad you are healing. Your post shows that you ARE healing! So keep on sharing when you have time and can. God bless.
I really enjoyed this article AND the post by finally_phoenix. What an amazing head you have on your shoulders. I am still working through anger and after reading your words I have more strength and knowledge to do so. You are strong and insightful and I hope to read many more of your posts, we need more women like you around!
Dear Lostinthedarkness and ALL-
Excellent posts. Have been no contact for a year, then when I thought it was safe, I answered a text, then realized I needed to block him from my cell. $4.99 a month- totally worth it. NO FACEBOOK, email NOTHING. It feels great. I had forgotten what boring feels like. My life is thankfully BORING. I pay my bills the best I can, I work out as often as I can, I study, take care of my daughter and am cleaning up the house. I am doing the best I can, day at a time to take care of me and my girls.
I was married to a spath and then dated on for four years. I have finally decided that being alone is much better than surviving in a relationship with a toxic person.
When I was in the F*d up relationship, I felt anxiety all the time. I never knew if I would get cake (less and less) or get figuratively- punched in the stomach. They thrive on your telling you things to cause you pain- just to see if they can still get a reaction.
I recently met someone whose last name was — no kidding- SPATH. He broke a date, then texted like crazy- wanted to know when I was available, I texted back then he set another time- waffled- then broke a second date. He then texted me all weekend. I did not answer- and deleted his name from contacts. At least I don’t spend time trying to figure out- I just delete and make other plans or enjoy my own life. If they are not enhancing- I really don’t have the spare time, I am too busy with my own life 🙂
I may not post often but thank you for being here.
Dear Missymudd,
YOU DID GREAT!!!! ONE Red flag and GONE IS MY RULE! One sign of anything dishonest or rude, and no amount of the “love bomb” will pull me back into the web!
ONE AND DONE!!!
Thanks Oxy! You are very right and I have came to feel that way now. I did berry my daughter in Sept 2009 it just took me this long to get over the mourning.I told her the last time I seen the girl I loved was then. She no longer has any heart left. He has her so brain washed on top of her narcissistic behaviors she had in the first place. I know there will always be something as long as those kids live with them that will come up and slap me in the face and I know that if she came to me for help tomorrow if it had do with the kids. I know I would help her but if it came for me to help her for her.I do not believe it will ever happen again. My mental health worker said that I will always love her because she is my daughter but the sad part or maybe the good part is I feel nothing for her right know. Nothing at all but disgust and shame. I want to deny she is my daughter when asked She has never had love or respect for me and I do not want to waste another minute trying to get something that she is not capable of giving. As long as I try to see my grand children they will make my life miserable but I do not care I am not afraid anymore. They will have to kill me to stop me from seeing my grand children and if they choose that path well them my grandchildren will be free. Ive lived my life and will gladly sacrifice what is left for those three children. Believe me the spath has threatened right in front of her and she stood up for him when I told him I was not afraid of him and why. I just wish they would let me see my grandchildren in peace and keep there big mouths shut instead of causing shit then blame it on me when I stick up for my self. He is so good at what he does with her because she is as blind as a bat as smart as a rock and as selfish as the pigs eating slop. I can not believe that I worked so hard for a person like that to show me a little respect. I think I had the smart as a rock problem but no more.
dear grandmother,
I want to tell you something, I hope that you take it the right way and not take offence. When you first posted here, I was wondering if you were real or just a spath trying to create drama. I suspect everyone because my own spath was so good at hiding what he was, it’s hard to trust. Now that I have gotten to “know” you better, I see that you are very much like me. You just want to do “what is right”.
Grandmother, the spaths KNOW THIS. They understand our mentality. and they will use it against us. That’s why they are able to use the grandchildren against you. Grandmother, you can’t allow yourself to be PREDICTABLE. EVER. THEY USE THAT AGAINST YOU. DO NOT REVEAL YOUR CARDS. KEEP THAT ACE UP YOUR SLEEVE. spaths are predictable. you can always predict them if you STUDY THEM AND WHAT THEY DO.
My spath sister is like your daughter. I loved her so much, but now I realize that she was destined to be a spath and part of it is my fault. You see, she was born with selfish, narcissistic tendencies which were obvious even as an infant. (she could charm strangers from her stroller at 6 months old and my mom noticed it – mother freakin weird ain’t it? but my mom told me this YEARS AGO!! Mom said this about my sociopathic brother too!! They are Mom’s only two sociopathic children and she noticed the charm at infancy!!)
Anyway, my sis was not a bad person, she was just selfish and “empty”. She copied everything I did and used me to do her school homework most of he life. Then my exP decided to send a trojan horse spath to infiltrate my family. She was the easy way in. Dumb as rocks AND a narcissist. In fact, her nick name is ROCK. The spath husband has turned her evil.
I’m not sure that any of this info will help you. But I will tell it to you anyway. I don’t understand it very well myself, so I’m only reporting what I have experienced so that others can help clarify it, learn from it. Do youknow what I mean?
This field of study is new. Robert Hare is the “resident expert” but LF readers know even more. We’ve been there, done that.
My sister is a narcissistic idiot. her husband is a sociopathic evil that entered her life and made her evil too (my fault because of my spath who created this situation). My parents are (to the best of my knowledge) narcissists.
nothing is simple, grandmother, but what I have come to believe is that spaths enter our lives to give us TUITION. And that tuition is SOOOOO EXPENSIVE. We don’t want to pay, I DON’T WANT TO PAY. but what can I do? I just pay and I’m greatful that at least I’m gaining something because if I die, God will give me points for what I learned.
One last thing, I want to say (I’m amazed that YOU inspire me so much even though I doubted you were even REAL), she is always going to be a thorn for you. We are human…If God had allowed me to have children I believe they would have been the worst imaginable nightmares. I’m not ADULT enough to have had kids. Only time I was pregnant, I was 15. Can you imagine?
Grandomother, your life is not about your daughter, it’s about YOU. and only YOU. that’s the responsibility you were given. YOU. God loves YOU. (huggs) He’ll take care of the rest.
sky.
Dear Distressed Grandmother,
How I relate to you! Like you I have now totally GIVEN up with both of my biatches of spath daughters. I used to love them so much as little girls, but they are adult women now, one is almost 47, the other is 45.These little girls are DEAD just as Oxys son that cute little boy, is DEAD too. I CANT STAND either of them. I havent seen the older one since Dec. 2008, and Ive been total NC with her for 2 years this June. The longer the time lapse, the better, saner, happier I feel. They are truly horrible people, they con, lie, manipulate, use people, have no empathy, no remorse, no conscience. I was asking myself recently do I still love them? No. I dont eithe r like or respect them, so whats to love?
I have given and given to them and they sucked me dry, and gave Nothing back, no love, nothing. Now, I know they are the ENEMY of my soul.
The older one writes for this magazine “Travelling with kids.” It makes me want to puke to read her articles!
They are full of lies! She tells people she lives on the North Shore, {very upscale area}with her significant other, and their “blended family’.-his 2 kids and her 3 kids. ALL LIES! The truth is, her 3 kids live FT with their dad, and she babysits them in her ex husbands home weekends only! Pass me the sick bowl, I need to puke!
She lives in one rented room of a shared flat, and the kids bunk beds are in store!!,Her latest article was all about the sandwiches she makes for them every day to take to school, and how they dont like Vegemite.{In UK they call it Marmite, its yeast extract. }All about how she takes ages making cheese scrolls, quiches, ham rolls, cuts up fruit for them, etc, all lies!Her husband gets th e 16 yer old girl to make the sandwiches each day! spath D doesnt see them all week!
There was a comment section under the article and I couldnt resist it, I wrote, “Funny how you have to make sandwiches for your 3 kids when they dont even live with you and you only get to see them weekends!” Shed also written how Mum{me} was a snob and wouldnt let her as a kid,have Devon,{Bologna } in her sandwiches!I commented that this was untrue and the only reason I didnt buy it was it was full of preservatives a nd cereal.I also said.”Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!”
Of course, I checked the article a couple of hours later, and ,you guessed it, shed DELETED my comments!I knew she would!
How do I feel? I feel GOOD! The biatch knows Im ON TO HER and her lies now!I BACK SPATHED HER and it FELT GREAT!!
Lets hope her editor read my comments before she deleted them!Her 13 year old son was badly injured last week. He phoned up his Dad at work to ask him if he could go surfing with his mates after school..Dad said OK. what Gson didnt tell his dad was hed go jump off a small clifff onto rocks, at high tide, badly lacerate his back, stitches to his head, if hed been knocked unconscious hed be DEAD now, drowned. My SIL rang her from the Hospital, She didnt even go visit her son in Hospital! Words fail me!
I have NO love left now for either spath daughter.Only contempt and disgust.As Oxy says Ive cycled thru anger, sadness, bargaining, disbelief, feeling sorry for them,despair, sadness again, anger again, on and on. Now NOTHING .Except contempt. And finally I shouldnt say it but REVENGE felt GREAT!!It felt BLOODY MARVELLOUS!!
Mama gemXX
Superkid 10, these people are so childish, they love to show off. That was what he was doing sending that woman around for a job. How insensitive and blatently obvious. What a creep. Mr X borrowed my car shortly after we met to go the doctor but really he took it over to his X wifes house on the pretext of visiting the childrne in order to show off. It was a nice car and he didn’t own a car himself. he pretended he had a distain for cars and the pollution they caused but as soon as he finds a new victim with a nice car he goes around showing off to friends and particularly his discarded girlfriends.
Lesson Learned, Donna Anderson, andÂ
shojo170,Â
Thank you so much. I’m crying tears of gratitude and joy. Thank you for seeing me and mine. Thank you for caring. Six kids on your own?! You are a legend!!!Â
It has been such a journey, such an uphill battle. I’ve lived in flight or fight for far too long. I have a few rules now that I have learned to live by through all of this. My number one rule is: always do the right thing. Always. And number two: remain child focused. I can’t go wrong with those two rules. Yes, they are simple but very profound. Number three? It is a great one. I don’t feel sorry for adults. I know it sounds harsh, but it’s what got me into this mess in the first place. I felt sorry for him. I tried to fix him. I spent years holding him up, scaffolding him with a beautiful world full of cupcakes and cuteness and babies and love. He sat in the middle of it like a hissing snake… Acting like he owned it, like he owned me and them. And when I would speak up against him, he’d either rear his angry head and bite or he’d crumble into a crying mess of guilt and blame. Â So I learned to be quiet and not to say anything. I do feel sorry for adults when disaster strikes and it’s out of their control… But we all choose! I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me. I just need support. And your words have been just that.Â
Thank you for sharing your pain and your wisdom. I chose Finally Phoenix as I feel like I am finally rising from the ash. New, strong, resilient. How amazing you all are. Even when we take steps back… It’s okay. We’re all here. We’re all supported. We can get through this and go NC and actually learn to love ourselves.Â
Thank you, Lesson Learned, for speaking of love and children. I work closely in their school with the students, staff, and parents and recently we put out a survey to all to list in three words what everyone feels they need to thrive in a good school
Environment. And the first word that EVERYONE listed, from 6 year olds to 60 year olds was… SAFE. We all just want to feel SAFE. It is our most basic human need. If we don’t gave that, we have nothing. The second most common word was respect, followed by words like integrity, cooperation, community. But SAFE, everyone chose without even thinking. It’s across the board… At school, at work, but especially ESPECIALLY at home. I work to create safe around my children. And they thrive in that. I have also learned to create safe around myself. And it has done wonders! Spaths destroy safe. They hold nothing sacred. They know that once they destroy safe, then they can control with fear. But fear only truly exists on the physical, if we let it. I mentioned my relationship with fear in the turning point thread. Fear is nothing. We are stronger than that. Fear is physical reaction we have. Say a car is about to hit you… You feel fear, and then adrenalin kicks in, and you MOVE! Adrenalin is so liberating. My ex, he’s a coward. He would talk and yell and threaten me and the kids. But I stopped feeling afraid when I figured out that if he did try to physically hurt me again, I’d let my adrenalin kick in and protect us all. He just likes to play games and manipulate. The kids and I like to feel safe and warm and loved. So we have created a life without him that focuses on just that!!!
Thank you again for your support. I cannot thank you enough. Your posts are helping heal so many wounds.Â
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