By | May 25, 2018 46 Comments

Sociopaths keep changing their demands, keeping you in turmoil

When you’re dealing with sociopaths, figuring out what they really want is nearly impossible. Why? Because they keep changing what they want.

When my ex-husband, James Montgomery, moved into my house, I agreed to convert my basement, which I used as a small gym, into an office for him. I put away my gym equipment. I hired builders to install more electric outlets to run his array of computers, televisions and business equipment, which required enclosing the lower part of the walls. Making the improvements, and installing a small bathroom downstairs, cost me $6,000. (He promised to pay me back, but of course he never did.

When Montgomery first moved into the office, he was delighted.

When we had an argument, he complained about being forced to work out of a dark, dank cellar.

Then, when he was trying to butter me up, he was pleased that “Nuffles” (one of his pet names for me) made such a nice office for him.

Later, as our marriage was falling apart, he again bitterly complained about his deplorable working conditions.

Did Montgomery like the office, or not? I have no idea. The whole issue illustrates how sociopaths will say anything, even directly contradicting themselves, depending on their agenda at the moment.

Moving the goal posts

Many Lovefraud readers have described another, more insidious manifestation of changing sociopathic demands the phenomenon of continuously “moving the goal posts.” Here’s how this works:

Sociopaths tell you what they want, which we’ll call “A.” You give them “A” except now they want “B.”  You give them “B,” but now they want “C.” This can continue for “D,” “E” and “F.” In fact, it can continue through the entire alphabet, and then through the entire Greek alphabet. Each time, sociopaths insist that this will make them happy.

One target of a sociopath used a different metaphor to describe this behavior “moving the line in the sand.” This person said:

Moving the line in the sand is  a red flag.  It serves many purposes.  It damages the target.  But it also grooms, tests and weakens the target.  Plus, the target  commits and gets deeper and deeper to recoup the loss (remember we talked about  recouping the loss.)   Because it is used to test the target, I think it is an important red flag to look out for.

The target finds himself/herself tolerating more and more and doing more and more and the spath does less and less and  needs/wants /implicitly demands/expects more and more.  Sometimes its from an overt agreement, sometimes its  from implicit agreements that the line gets moved.

Off balance

What happens to you as they keep changing the rules? You are totally off balance. You can’t figure out how to treat them, or how to be around them, because you keep getting mixed signals.

Sociopaths then make matters worse by demeaning you for not doing what they want. You try to explain that you did what they wanted previously, but now they want something different. The sociopaths vociferously deny that they ever told you anything different, and insist that they always wanted what they recently demanded and that you misunderstood them.

Sociopaths are so convincing that you begin to wonder if you did, indeed, misunderstand them, and if you’re losing your mind.

Moving the goal posts is a form of gaslighting. It messes with your sense of reality.

Empty inside

Why do sociopaths do this? Why do they keep moving the goal posts?

I think the main reason is that sociopaths are not fully formed human beings — they’re empty shells. They have no core personality, no inner fiber, no guiding purpose. Their desires are not based on stable objectives, but passing fancies. They make demands according to whatever they feel like doing in the moment,

Plus they get bored easily. As soon as they tire of one form of entertainment, they want another.

A key question is, do sociopaths do this intentionally? Given that some sociopaths actively try to crush their targets, I certainly think it’s possible.

What do you think? Did you experience sociopaths who kept moving the goal posts? If so, were they clueless or doing it in purpose?

Lovefraud first published this story on July 1, 2013.

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Every personality disordered person I have ever known has done this. I think this gives them one more way of being in control. Because, based on their changing desires, we respond to make it happen; or we have a strong reaction of some other sort. So, in a sense, they are in control of us if we respond to these moving ‘goals’.

Psychologically all manipulation is about controlling the environment. In my experience no one tries to control everything around them more than someone with a personality disorder. It is their nature. And they do it every second of every day. It is a driving force in them.


slim Agree.


yes, a driving force.


Mine did this, too. No matter how or what I did (literally bending over backwards), to please was NEVER enough, it was wrong..if I gave him A, he wanted B..and on and CANT PLEASE THESE PEOPLE. It is a sick game they play, to keep you CRAZY..and until you catch on (in time)..they WILL continue to play with YOUR mind. Its about CONTROL.


First, I would like to comment that, when I was growing up, I was a nervous wreck coming home from school, as I had no idea what kind of mood my mother was in when I came in the front door.

Second, since there was no opportunity to comment on “Parental Alienation,” (announcing a webinar class), that we have to address sociopathic parent(s) may pit children against one another, in an attempt to keep the entire family off balance.


Yes, “moving the goal posts” was exactly what the sociopath who was in my family did. She was one of the beneficiaries of my parents’ estate, and I was the person responsible for settling everything.

I carried out my fiduciary responsibilities to my parents and their estate, and bent-over-backwards trying to accommodate the disordered beneficiary. However, she was constantly “moving the goal posts” and making life a living hell for me.

There is no doubt that this disordered human being was fully aware of exactly what she was doing. Her goal ultimately was to win by destroying me.

Well, it has been almost 4 years now since I got everything settled in my parents’ estate and I released the sociopath from my life.

Anyone who has been on the path to freedom from a sociopath has truly been on a warriors’ journey!!!!!


My sociopath couldn’t decide whether to keep me or let me go. Her primary “mask” was that of a devout virgin christian based on her so-called “best friend”.

She was 17 at the time and I had just turned 21.

From the time we got together, she put me on a calling schedule. I was only allowed to call her on Tuesdays and Thursdays for one hour. However, she would call me whenever she felt like it.

We would only have one date per week and it would last about 2 1/2 hours on a Friday. I later discovered that she spent the rest of the time hanging out with friends (and most likely other guys) and doing whatever she felt like.

I imagine I was kept on a strict schedule so that she could keep tabs on me while she played the field.

During phone calls she would say things like “we’re unequally yoked. You’re not a Christian and I am. We’re not meant to be together.” She would drill that in week after week. Oddly enough, she would also end the conversation by setting up the next date or next phone call. So on the one hand, I wasn’t good enough to have a future with, but it was ok to keep dating.

On one particular occasion, I hadn’t spent time with her in a few weeks because she was doing her final exams to graduate high school. She said: “No, that wouldn’t be a good idea. It just wouldn’t.”

No further explanation.

A week later she called me nonstop to go out.

For the first six months we held hands everywhere we went. She initiated that on our first date. Then one night she dropped my hand and said we would no longer hold hands because it’s “PDA” (public display of affection). I’d never heard of that and my heart sank when it happened.

The same night she wanted to go to a coffee shop and asked what I would be having. I told her I don’t drink coffee but I would just hang out while she drank. She threw a fit and told me that “we are incompatible” (because I don’t drink coffee).

Really interesting question. Happened to me constantly. I used to think it was because he had all these lies in his head and wasn’t sure what he demanded of whom. But now I think it was a test of my devotion. “Is she still under my control? Let’s find out…”
I do agree it kept me off balance, so maybe that is their ultimate goal. But my sp was kind of a parrot. If he heard that a coworker’s wife made the best meatloaf, he’d ask for meatloaf. Then say he hated meatloaf, and put me down for making it. I passed the test. Lucky me!


You know, I think the meatloaf type thing happens because they have no real sense of self, and are constantly trying on aspects of other people’s personalities. I do feel sorry for sociopaths, in a way. They never asked to be afflicted by these severe personality disorders.

A snake cannot help being a snake — it was just born like that, or created by its parents, if you think nurture as well as nature forms these monsters. How awful to live in such a shallow world, where you never really experience love or true joy. And to not even know who you are, well it is kind of tragic.

Zoe, I think you touched on an important aspect, and perhaps why we stay with them? Even though my SP could be a really mean @$$, most of the time he wasnt. Even in the discarding period, when i knew he was cheating, he seemed sad he had to spend time to ‘recruit another one’ rather than actually looking forward to it. Maybe I’m rationalizing, but on the scale of crappy behavior, mine seemed milder than most stories I’ve read here. Still unhealthy, still addictive, still demeaning, but not as violent. He wanted what everyone around him had, tried on their words, their look, their behavior, their hobbies. But alas, everyone leaves. Part of me does feel sorry for him but a much bigger part of me is glad he’s gone. I can’t fix him. I accept that.


Shescomeundone, I definitely believe there is a spectrum of psychopathy/sociopathy, and while some seem violent others largely do not. In my case, like someone in one of Sandra Brown’s articles, I “graduated” from my marriage to a Malignant Narcissist, maybe a sociopath light, if you will, to being in a relationship with a criminal with previous convictions of mainly white collar crimes, but there was a gun involved in one incident, and extortion by physical force in another.

But as you said, even the worst one, whom I will call ‘Anthony’, was charming most of the time, had 500 “friends” on Facebook, and could have made a mint of money in sales if theft by deception was not so lucrative for him. He was truly that charismatic, when he wanted to be, but would become intense and angry when he did not get his way, and had that characteristic “sociopath stare”.

I remember once sitting at a bar with him, and he was actually paying me back a very small percentage of what he had originally “borrowed”. He was so full of rage, that without even raising his voice much he had me shaken to the core. He told me menacingly that I had “no idea what [he was] capable of.” And I am sure that he was correct. After he left the bartender asked me if I was okay even though the conversation was relatively quiet.

I really want him to be put away for his crimes even though I have not had him criminally charged for what he did to me. I would rather live in peace, and well, just LIVE, because I do believe that under certain circumstances psychopaths are capable of absolutely anything. And part of me feels like a coward for not coming forward to the police, but I have seen how victims are sometimes treated (including me as an abused wife. It sucks, but the courts do not always achieve justice.

I just hope the state does not blow his case and let him off. As Donna said once, the courts do not seem to care that much about crimes against women that do not involve serious physical harm. And if you are well connected, sometimes the case just gets dismissed on some technicality. Unfortunately, the legal system is still an “old boys network” and despite #MeToo, or maybe even as a backlash, the patriarchy is still protecting it’s own.


In regards to what they are capable of, I feel the following statement my sp made sums it up well. I was still letting him live off me for a few weeks because I wouldn’t want to throw anyone out in the cold because I am human. I cried one night saying I am scared of what he might do to me during these final days. He responded that he wouldn’t risk going to prison. Not that he was incapable of such action or would never hurt someone. But that the possible legal risk was too great in his mind. Occasionally I feel sorry for him knowing his life will be one con after another. But then I feel much more sorry for all the past and future victims/survivors. And really there is nothing to feel sorry for the sp about because they will never feel hurt or shame for what they are. Thanks for the discussion lovefraud survivors:) being able to share with all of you has made my recovery easier.


They DO borrow the identities of those they come in contact with. They borrow our hopes and dreams, or fave books, or our love of cheese. Anything that they can use to glue together a persona is up for grabs. One of the spaths I dated has a strong online presence. I have gotten onto his blog and read stuff that is directly lifted from my life, and re-purposed for his facade.

It is interesting if you can watch them from a distance. You can see that they are always role-playing. There is no authentic, grounded, foundational personality. It is all acting–like a father, a lover, a generous helper, a spiritual leader, a president, a concerned friend. They are all roles that they piece together from getting close enough to other people, watching TV, reading books, anywhere really.

I think that is why they sometimes get it terribly wrong, and we experience WTF moments with them. I think, if they are not really intelligent, that they just don’t know when they are off the mark and that the person they are pretending to be isn’t being consistent.

So much of what y’all say is ringing true.
Zoe, is the “sociopath stare” the one where he’s totally void behind it? I saw that often and it’s CREEPY. No soul.
Slim, my spath was not very intelligent so I had many wtf moments when he wasn’t getting it quite right. He would hear confusion in my voice, change the subject, and rant how everyone was jealous of him. Then came the control full force by setting all new rules to assert his dominance. Those were the worst when I questioned him, he moved that goal post to another flippin field!


The “sociopathic stare” is supposed to be a hallmark of a personality disordered person with Cluster B tendencies. It is menacing and reptilian, as I experienced it, a foreboding of what might happen if you do not make this person happy. Some say it is to establish dominance, but I found it plain threatening, and it had its desired effect.

My simple request for the return of funds ‘Anthony’ had borrowed, an interaction that takes place every day among rational people. When he persisted in his excuses and delays as to why he could not return my funds, I told him that I would have to “take steps” to ensure their return. I believe that I was supposed to be frightened away, and to some extent, I was.

But I also knew that I was entitled, legally and morally, to get my money back from him. Because he had used a variation on his real name, my Google searches did not immediately turn up evidence of his prior convictions. When I saw one of his mug shots for the first time, I felt like my internal organs were in the grip of a vice. The emotional wrench of this discovery was actually physically painful. This person was supposedly my beloved. Who was he really? Was our relationship just a lie, a long con?

The dawning of these revelations ebbed and flowed depending on each new tack the sociopath took to secure my affections and my money. The sad part for me is that he really did not have to offer much for me to succumb to his charms, and I remain very disappointed in myself, a city-girl who was taught not to trust anyone blindly.

The look let me know how easily it would be for him to annihilate me, the look of a lion just before he eats the zebra. And yet, when the charm turned back on, I could not quite access my rightful impulse to flee. And I came back. Sigh.


Their “love of cheese”? You too, huh? Sottocenere is the best cheese on the planet, but many, many others are right up there, for me.

Just kidding. I agree with everything that you wrote. It is all an act, one that they are constantly trying to refine. Persona, reputation, and public opinion are all that are important to them.

And I believe that they must have some kind of inner risk calculus that they use to decide how far that they are willing to go. ‘Anthony’ had already spent a few years in prison, but insisted to me that he was a minor player forced to take the fall for a larger group of individuals. Inexplicably, fear of going back to prison did not keep him from repeatedly re-offending.

His cover story did not pass the WTF test even as he spoke the words, and was a less plausible lie than if he had taken responsibility for his crimes and feigned redemption. I just kept saying, “Why the f *@k would you do that?”

He said he had joined a motorcycle club, and they had made him take the fall for their misdeeds. ‘Anthony’ even claimed that the alleged victims had initially made a lot of money from their dealings with the MC, and only went to the cops when the market turned south. Simply unbelievable, on so many fronts.

And yet, I do feel sorry for psychopaths, despite the fact that they do not feel that their lives are empty, or care about the fate of their victims at all, only because they had NO CHOICE in becoming psychologically disordered.

Don’t get me wrong, I have much more empathy for the victims, and the helpless family members (especially offspring) who are abused over and over, and may even inherit those terrible traits and genetic dysfunction.

I also wish that courts and prisons used psychopathy as a factor in sentencing and parole equations, like Canada does. The public truly needs to be better protected from these monsters, and the legal system is not cutting it. Still, there but for the grace of God go I, in my opinion.

One time I threatened to call the cops if he didn’t leave my house. More than threatened because I was already dialing, bUT he did leave, so i hung up. Going to prison was the only thing that openly scared him. I mean it should scare anyone. But he was less than a year away from his retirement and he would lose everything if he were arrested because he worked for the city.


they do this.


I also have sympathy and compassion for these types. They didn’t ask to be mentally ill. But my sympathy is only from a distance, more toward the entire group of disordered people, and isn’t really directed toward any individual. On an individual level, when I see the misdeeds and devastation, I feel mostly disgust and anger. I still get twinges of wanting revenge even. I don’t act on them, but I do fantasize that he will get punished.

I know they can ‘control’ themselves when it serves them. But my sense of it (as I have a narcissistic mother) is that they cannot do this every minute of every day. They are what they are, and in the long run they continue to abuse. And I think the higher they are in the spectrum of their disorder the more impossible it becomes for them to behave.


I don’t have sympathy for these types. My sympathy is always with the victim.


they do this a great deal.


am new to this site, after falling for a love bombing married man. I literally feel like I’m stuck in a bad nightmare. This man lured and chased me down with flattery- claiming to be “stuck” in a marriage that he had to stay in for 3 kids. He claimed to be in love with me, that I was his best friend and soulmate. This fling went on for 8 months until the discard happened.

I was randomly talking to a woman I know and she advised me she was talking to this man too ( not knowing me and him did). I was blown away and went to someone I trusted- a mutual friend. And that’s where the nightmare started.

The mutual friend has been harassing me for weeks now. Claiming she is running this now and protecting his wife and kids from finding out. I have no intention to tell his wife I just want to be away from them all. The friend opened a social media page calling me a slut and whore with no mention that HE chases women, not only me. She has said I’m pathetic and my ego is hurt and to go find another boy toy. I’m beyond exhausted mentally I’ve never been in a situation like this had anyone been slandered this way?? It’s awfu


sbff8, wow, what a nightmare. I’m sorry that you were sucked into this married man’s con game. Looks like he has created a “sociopath smear campaign” against you & is using this “friend” to do his battle with you. Or both the married man & this new person setting up the fb is also a sociopath?!?

I would recommend that you get a lawyer involved to send this “friend” & married man a cease & desist letter immediately to take down the social media site they created and also to stop telling people lies otherwise you are going to sue them. This might stop them both. Interview lawyers to make sure you are not hiring another sociopath or narcissist.

do a search here on lovefraud:

sociopath smear campaign
sociopath triangulation

After the lawyer letter just follow the NO CONTACT RULE with both these people. Do a search on this rule here at LF and the net.


Thank you. I talked to my local police department and he is helping me also now b


I can’t believe it’s a smear campaign and people do this!! I’m scared to leave my house or face anyone but I’m the one who is being blamed? I’m not married and I didn’t chase after this man. He was obsessed with me. He constantly wrote me love letters and wanted to meet me all the time. He said he wanted his children to meet me and his mother. I just don’t understand what these people do this for. I’m glad to be reading on this site


Hi sbff8, glad you found this wonderful site too!! YEP! That’s what evil sociopaths do = smear campaigns to destroy those that are telling the truth.

He set this smear campaign up long before you broke it off with him. Sociopaths are always 10 steps ahead because nice people have zero clue that these people exist and that they do these evil tactics. My ex did a horrific smear campaign against me, most victims end up losing friends & family because they belive the sociopaths smear campaign of lies. I too lost long time friends. But I know the truth and so do you hon. Hold your head high…you were sucked into this con mans game.

Know that all married men will say that the are not in love with their wives, just staying together for the kids, or we are roommates. But know that 87% of married men when caught in an affair want to stay with their wife (Dr So he has been playing you hon with his lying words. I know this hurts, I’m sorry to be blunt but I think it is best so that you know that he is not a good person. That you were a good person that was conned into his con game.

As the ex wife of a sociopath, I want you to know that this guy most likely has many many mistress on the side. It was most likely not just you. When I finally escaped my ex, I found out that he was seeing at least 3 women in two different states, possibly 5 (the other two not sure).

When I finally left, I found a counselor who told me I was married to a sociopath. I told her I thought that he had cheated on me with at least 8 to 12 women during the marriage. She said it was more like “3 to 4 times that many” as sociopaths “are serial cheaters”.

During our marriage I was having sex with him weekly. He was telling me how much he loved me, that he was thankful that we were married etc etc. All lying words while also abusing me….he was telling his mistress the same lies. We both traveled for business. He had mistress in town & away at business stops. I also found sites on his computer that were “hook up” sites. So no doubt my ex had many one night stands too. These types lead a double, triple life. Sociopaths are always looking for sex from people. Along with money, a place to live etc etc.

This guy’s wife most likely wants to leave without even knowing you exist, but he has broken her down & twist her mind up with the same type games that he is playing on you if he is a sociopath. This other person that has set up this social media account to bash you might also be sleeping with him too. You just never know and if he has been telling her lies to her to protect him. These people are seriously crazy and the more you read here at love fraud the more you will see the truth with this guy.

My advise is dont get caught up in this current tornado smear campaign of destruction. He may call the police on your or something else. Sociopath can easily lie to the police & judge in court.


He wants to push your buttons for fun & to make you mentally break down. Sociopaths love love love to push peoples buttons to get an emotional out of them. Dont play his con game right now. Just thank your LUCK STARS you are free of him!! Slam the door shut on him asap by following the no contact rule!!

Sociopath HATE to be exposed. And right now you are exposing him. So please Follow the no contact rule. And look into sending him a cease & desist letter via a lawyer and/or work with the police.

What ever you do, DO NOT ENGAGE an any conversation directly with this woman or this married man. Just let go. This is not easy but like I stated you do not know what lengths this guy will go to so that his wife does not find out about the affair. She most likely wants to leave him, most likely if he is a sociopath she is being emotionally, mentally & verbally abused (as that is what sociopath do to their wife). Why avoid any conversation with them?…you dont know what they have planned up their sleeves…ie get you arrest (there are many stories here on LF and other support sites that the true victims of a sociopath gets arrested).

I’m sorry that you are enduring this nightmare. Glad that you researched for answers & had the courage to post here at Lovefraud. You are in a safe place to vent & educate yourself. Donna & Terry have created a library full of valuable information for unraveling the craziness of a relationship with a sociopath and also a great forum to find support.

Keep asking questions & venting. 💜💜💜

ps look at the site Psychopathyawareness. wordpress. org. another great site to educate yourself on who you are dealing with.


You are really right. When I told my best friend about what this mutual friend did to me she said “she’s probably sleeping with him” This was hard for me believe at first but I put nothing past him. He’s trying to maintain his family and image because he’s the singer in a band locally and upcoming. I just really want to slap myself for being so stupid. A- for even entertaining the idea of a married man saying he’s living with a roommate. B- that I played into it.

No one understands how he did it I cannot explain it other than love bombing. He stalked me, started conversation online. We really got to know each other. The sad thing is I lost two family members and we talked about death and loss and I really believed he cared for me. When he said he was in love with me and wanted me to leave my life for him I said no. I didn’t try to break up a marriage like this crazy woman said.

She said I was a thirsty b**** and I wanted attention and he busted my ego. That’s not what it is I could admit it if it was. She said I was jealous I found out he was talking to another woman other than me. No. That’s also not true I was shocked. Hurt. No one seems to address that HES MARRIED and was talking to several women. As soon as I figured out what he was doing and exposed him- this woman sent me a photo of 5 envelopes with my jobs address on them my friends and said if I ever told his wife she would mail them with personal pics exchanged over the months I knew this man. I feel tricked lied to and just in a total state on confusion.

I thought I knew this man. I really did. We talked every day and just to find out that he talked to others too. He said he hoped his wife would leave first and that we could be together publicly.

Your writing about the wife really made me think. I do hope she finds out- but she probably already does. This crazy mutual friend is probably lashing out and defending him so she can continue a relationship. I can’t believe it because he’s like his mother and age of his mother but like I said nothing would shock me.

He love bombed me so so bad. He would write me constantly long love letters tell me I was beautiful. When I blocked him on all social media he flipped out and said we are best friends he wants to stay in touch and be friends.

I know I’m best walking away and I have. But my issue is now I want him to get his karma. What if his wife never finds out what he does?!!!! People around the community think he’s the best person in the world and I know the truth.


sbff88, I know you want “karma”…this will come to him. I promise you this with out you ever being evolved. These sociopaths leave a trail of destruction behind. They create nothing but chaos & drama in their own lives & everyone that gets sucked into their con game. He will be exposed sooner then later just by him exposing himself. This happens Just sit back grab some popcorn because he will drop his mask to the world and you can just say “I told you so” without ever being involved in exposing him.

He states:

He said he hoped his wife would leave first and that we could be together publicly.

Right here he is blaming his wife for the reason why you two could not be together. This is the start of his “sociopath triangulation” of you against his wife. Divorce can be filed by the husband or wife. This was a very covert manipulation tactic by him to keep you in his hooks. He had no intension of divorcing his wife.

Sociopaths never want to let go of anyone that they hook into their con game. Especially their wife. Sociopaths see people as objects. His wife is just an object like a car or house. He will never let go of her even when he divorces him, he will find some way to call her, stop by the home etc. Sociopath hate to let go. This is why the NO CONTACT RULE is necessary.

PLEASE follow this rule for ever with them. As sociopaths are known to boomerang back into a past victims life just because they are bored, need money, want sex etc etc. Even YEARS from now this could happen to you. SO BEWARE!! Keep the door shut. Even if he sends you a nice message. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM…he is just throwing out bait to see who will bite. Once you respond they know they can suck you back into their con game. Just ignore & block him asap.

This guy is using this woman who set up the social media account & also sent you the photos. He is keeping an arms length from the law himself but still trying to have control over you thru this other woman. This other woman could get arrested for sending you these threatening photos via the mail not him. you see how he is controlling you & her while he stands clear of getting arrested??

This guy is extremely covert manipulative. VERY DANGEROUS. This is what I am talking about. This woman is basically stalking you. She would get arrested. But my guess is he is the puppet master behind these photos & threat. This is why I am advising not to react to their game. You dont want to get tangled up in his web of deception & get arrested.

What he is doing with getting this other woman involved to harass you is called ***“Sociopath Triangulation” (look this up here at love fraud and also on the net.

When you are in their tornado you can not see that that are intentionally getting others to fight while they sit on the side line and laugh. Now the attention has shifted from their cheating, lying & manipulation to others fight over them. Do you see this with his whole game??

My ex was a master at triangulation. When I finally had proof that he was having a two year affair with a married woman 15 years older then him, with a son in collage he did just that. He triangulated me with his mistress. I took the bait & so did she. We had a few heated phone calls…we fought over a cheating lying man. I look back and just laugh at myself now but during the time my ex h had broken my spirit down & my self esteem to a point I did not thing I would ever find someone to love me again so I fought for him & our marriage. He blamed me then her etc etc all a con game. Sick man he is. And so is this guy you were tangled up with.

I now am educated and recognize that ALL of his mistress were just victims like myself. He runs an endless con game. His mask might not slip to the world when he is young but I know as he ages & his behavior becomes more irritate he will be exposed. So will this guy you were with.

you state:

What if his wife never finds out what he does?!!!!

Oh, she knows he cant be trusted right now. She knows his words are not adding up to the truth. His actions are showing her who he is daily, but his lying words are twisting up her mind so much she cant find to door out of the marriage. She will escape some day. She will just get sick of his crazy chaos & drama.

She might even call you to help her understand his behavior. If you are in a safe place where he can not harm you then you might want to talk to her. This might heal both of you. I know it would have been nice for one of his mistress to tell me exactly how he love bombed them & also what he was saying about me back when I first escaped.

But he had their minds twisted up so much that they were defending him and being triangulated. I know I shared the truth with one via text. She called me lots of nasty things none of which I am. I know this from what my family & close friends tell me as who they see, it’s the same person I feel I am.

(When I escaped & my counselor told me who he was (a sociopath) I feared for the mistress lives so I contact all of them once I found out he was cheating with 3 woman two different states & two more that I was not sure about. It had nothing to do with me being vindictive towards him or them but everything to do with protecting his mistress from being harmed or killed as he threatened me may time before we married & after, after leaving I realized he was indeed capable of killing me and them. One mistress I sent a letter to her, one I emailed her and the other I knew & she knew me I called her. I kept my emotional out of the conversation and letters. Just told them I was finally divorcing him and that he was a sociopath & directed them here to Lovefraud & other sites. One dumped him immediately (the one I sent the letter to) the other one was to deep into his brain washing she sent me nasty emails telling me to “put my big girl panties on and move on”. I knew the truth and did not engage with her but was kind in a return email and knew one day she would know that I told her the truth & that he was lying)

Just thank your lucky stars hon that you were only tangled up with him for 8 months. Now just educate yourself here at love fraud. I would suggest you buy Donna’s book Lovefraud 10 signs you are dating a sociopath and analysis everything that you read with your relationship and use it when you start to date again to make sure you are dating a healthy minded person.

The more you learn how to recognize their behavior the more you can spot them as these types are EVERYWHERE blending into society in public but behind closed doors they are abusive.

What you endured by this guy..lying, manipulating, cunningness is all ABUSE!! Emotional, mental, verbal abuse. Verbal abused does not have to be yelling…it can just be manipulating someone with their words. like this guy did to you.

Look at the National Domestic Violence Hotline website to learn more about what emotional, mental & verbal abuse is and how to recognize it in your future when you start to date again. Know that the BULK of domestic abuse is emotional, mental & verbal abuse. Physical abuse typically does not come into play until the woman is about to leave or has left. Be picky who you date. if you see RED flags write them down and talk them over with your most trusted family members. Its better to be alone then be with someone who does not treat you with respect & kindness.

Do a search on “Setting boundaries” and also look at your local library for books on this topic. This guy steamed rolled over your boundaries. My ex did the same.

You will surviving this horrible moment in your life & thrive now because you understand that there are lots of people who have personality disorders and they will lie, cheat, abuse for fun.

Wishing you all the best. 🌺🌺🌺

Take care. 💜💜💜


Thank you taking the time to write me. It’s really helpful in trying to understand. I hope that the police help me and I want nothing to do with these people. I just can’t believe they are turning it on me. Because I spoke out and exposed him. I do feel bad for his wife because it could not have just been us 2 women. And I don’t think he ever will stop. He was the sweetest man to me I’m in a state of shock. I read up on trauma bond and I think that’s where I’m at.


Sbff8, you’re so welcome. I know you are hurting right now. But, with time your emotions will settle and you will have peace in your mind. When you break up with a sociopath thats when you really see their evil side. This guy is really showing you his evil side as to how far he will go to destroy you. My ex did the same once he was served divorce papers & in court. Cant imagine what he was saying behind my back because in person he was ruthless. it’s a true awakening to who far evil people will go not to be exposed to the world.

Glad you are reading up on trauma bonding. This is definitely an important aspect of healing. Also know that every time he sent you a text, email or called you he was releasing bonding hormones & also endorphins in your body & brain. Endorphins make us happy & elated. It’s like a dog receiving a treat after doing something the owner wants them to do or a ball for a dog to play with.

This is why for me I will not communicate via text or emails. I just talk on the phone or in person. And dont let anyone call me thought out the day. It becomes addicting to receive text & emails. This is scientific fact. Just look around you, at all the people walking around with their cell phones in hand waiting for that endorphin rush. Just like alcohol & drugs. This is a major way for a sociopath to control people & their minds via text & emails constantly. They control your mind & time = lovebombing.

Sending you huge hugs. Take care.


Sbff8, wanted to also let you know you might want to do a search here at Lovefruad and the net for:

“Sociopath Idolization, devalue & discard”

These are the steps a sociopath does to their victims. I think that “Destroy” is the last step for the sociopath to do to their victims. You did the right thing going to the police. KNOW THIS!!


Jan7- this is what I just don’t understand yet – I’m reading a lot. Why would he say these things and love bomb me, I didn’t have anything he wanted. If he never truly intended to leave his wife- why would he say so. Like I said, all along every time he asked me to leave I said no. I said if his marriage was over without it involving me one day then we could talk. This man was my best friend (I thought). He would talk to me about everything. His wife is a school teacher and it all started to make sense to me that he started luring me in September of last year. Around April he started to say he needed to be a good man and he didn’t want to lose his children. (His wife was going to be out of school for the summer). So he had to start the discard.

He would come over as soon as his kids were on the bus- this mutual friend who is attacking me and siding with him said that I need to realize that I’m nothing but a side piece and if his wife ever is told she will ruin my life.

There is more than just me. But I’m keeping my mouth shut. In fear. But someone will eventually tell. I just don’t know WHY. He chose me. He was obsessed with my appearance my outfits he would write me long love letters about my body and how he wanted to be beautiful like me. It wasn’t a sexual hookup type of relationship we talked about life things. I think that’s what hurts me most. When the other woman came out and confided in me he wrote her too I couldn’t believe it.

Why do they do this? I felt so hurt like I wasn’t enough. He had to go to this married woman, hr would talk to her sexually and porn she said. I just am very blown away.


sbff8, I know it hurts tremendously right now. I know you are crying, sobbing, angry, everything. I know you feel like not getting out of bed. But, I promise you with time, educating yourself here at love fraud & imposing the no contact rule with him, you will see the light of day again.

According to Steven Hassan cult & domestic abuse expert the most likely time to get sucked into a Cult or domestic abusive relationship (which you were in with this guy) is when you have a live change happening in your life such as relationship breakup, move, new job, empty nest, divorce, etc etc. Why this time? because your guard is down.

Sociopaths can see vulnerable people & target them quickly. They will use their words to try and hook a new target into their game. These types are extremely persuasive with their words & love bombing. This is how most likely he hooked you into his game. Throw in the fact we are all wanting a relationship & love. They know this.

You state:

“Why would he say these things and love bomb me, I didn’t have anything he wanted.”

What did he want from you? Most likely sex!

My ex husband had 3 women on the side in two different states, possibly 5 not sure about the other. He was getting sex from all of us.

But the ultimate thing a sociopath wants is POWER & CONTROL over others! My ex had control over 4 to 6 women (including me). This guy had control over you & his wife and the fact he played in a band he most likely met many other women.

It is very normal when you break up with someone to start to turn inward to learn…what could I have done to make the relationship work…but what you have to realize is there NOTHING anyone can do to have a normal, healthy, loving relationship with a sociopath. There brains are literally wired differently (scientific fact!).

You state:

“If he never truly intended to leave his wife- why would he say so.:

Would you have stayed with him, if he said I am never leaving my wife?

NO, more like hell no…over time you would have realized that you wanted a man who would marry you & possibly have kids (if that is what you want). EVERY MARRIED man will tell another woman that he is not “in love with his wife”, or “I stay for the kids”, etc etc. Because they know very few woman will have a relationship with them if they say they just want sex.

Dr Phil had a show once (I really dont watch tv but one day was flipping channels) where he had the mistress & the wife on the show. He stated that 87% of married men when caught in an affair want to stay with the wife not the mistress. And of the 13% that do leave their wife most of the mistress & husband relationship breakup soon after because there is no trust or foundation. It was based on sex.

I know this hurts hearing this hon.

You state:

“He would talk to me about everything.”

Know that sociopaths are “Pathological liars” (do a search here on LF and the net for this term).

His wife thinks they are best friends. So did I. but in reality sociopaths love to talk and more importantly they love to twist peoples minds up with their lies. Most of what this guy told you was most likely a lie. My ex too.

They will lie about everything just for fun. Just to make your mind go crazy. Its fun to them and some how it built into their Brian structure. A normal person might lie so that someone does not get hurt i.e. when asked “do you like my dress” you might say yes, but really you dont like it. But you dont want to hurt them. Sociopaths WANT to harm others!! They want to screw with you brain, they want to break you emotionally down so they lie to confuse your mind. To stress you out, to make you keep thinking about what they are saying. Looking back everything from day one my ex lied about!! Everything. Bet the same with this guy.

Open your mind up to this. Every time you read an article here at LF analyze to this guy. One day you will see the truth = he was a con man!! And con man lie.

You state:

“He would come over as soon as his kids were on the bus- this mutual friend who is attacking me and siding with him said that I need to realize that I’m nothing but a side piece and if his wife ever is told she will ruin my life.”

What this woman does not realize is SHE TOO is being used by this Sociopath con man. He is manipulating her with his LYING words to control her & for her to do his dirty work! He used his wife…maybe for a cover to look normal, for money, a place to live in the beginning…what ever it is….his wife was used & is still being used, you were used by him…EVERYONE a sociopath cons into their con game is used for something.

Do you see that this woman is being used by him to do his dirty work to keep you silent?

You state:

“It wasn’t a sexual hookup type of relationship we talked about life things”

Sociopaths are great talkers.They can talk to anyone without insecurity or fear. This is why people are attracted to them (to meaning in a sexual way). But sociopaths are different they have no fear…they should like they have figured out life…my ex talked about everything. I am more reserved. When someone talks about everything it’s a RED flag to me now. My ex talked about his “feelings’…but in reality he has no emotions so they were all lies. HE and all sociopath tell us normal people what we want to hear. That is how they con us. This guy told you want you wanted to hear. He told you about your appearance to control you, to make you focus on your appearance more to please him. This took time away from other things you might want to spend time on. He was conning you with this,

You state:

“When the other woman came out and confided in me he wrote her too I couldn’t believe it.”

Sociopath run the same exact scam on everyone. If it worked once they keep doing it. So this other woman is not a surprise…he is most likely texting many many woman. His emails & text were probably almost identical to you and to this other woman.

Do a search on:

Sociopath madonna & whore.

This will explain the reason why a sociopath has a “wife” and mistress. PLEASE PLEASE know that you are not a “whore” this is just the psychological book term used. I think it will give you clarity. On why he had a mistress(s) on the side.

Just know that you are a good persons, kind, hardworking, caring as this is who sociopaths target. You must start to see that he was not normal minded. You are trying to see him as a “normal persons” by asking the “WHY was he…”.

He is NOT normal minded. Once you grasp this you will see who he is. BTW everyone does exactly what you are doing (me too) trying to see them through the eyes of a normal person. I know my ex h is not normal and is down right evil. In time you will see this too if you keep educating yourself. So keep reading here at love fraud. Keep asking questions. This is a great place you are at = asking questions = your mind is awaking up to all of his brain washing & mind controlling cult leader words!!

Sunnygal (here at LF) always moves post up to the top for people to read on the forum so keep reading Donna’s new post, sunny gal moved up post and then do searches on the top right corner and ask questions.

You are stronger then you know!! Keep moving forward!!


Thank you. You really make complete sense it’s just mind blowing to me these evil people exist.


sbff8, you’re so welcome. I was right were you are now. Confused, hurting emotionally & mentally, felt like I had been run over by a mack truck. I sobbed for months & months after escaping. I think everyone that escapes a sociopath and then learns who they really are it’s mind blowing…our whole sense of this world has changed when finding out these evil people exist.

There is a free audio book on you tube called The sociopath next door by Harvard Professor Dr Martha Stout. It’s worth your time and so are Donna’s videos up at the top of LF and also all the great info she has on the home page in the Yellow box.

Just take one day at a time, some days one hour, or minute at a time. It hurts but I can promise you this in time you will see him for who he is, if you continue to educate yourself and you will be sooooo soo soooo thankful that he broke up with you. That is a BLESSING to be discard by a sociopath. At the time it does not feel this way. But for me, I am thankful that my ex h had other supplies on the hook in order for me to escape his abuse. I worry for them. I warned them so hopefully they have learned the truth and warned his new targets.

Hugs to you. You are doing a great job opening your mind up to the truth of this evil guy. I’m sorry that you were tangled up in his web of deception. but so thankful that you had the strength to research his behavior, find this incredible site Lovefraud and had the courage to post your story.


Hi Sbff8, DONNA & everyone,

this was just on my news feed:


“Yahoo news Former Piston player goes on tv to tell his wife he has slept with 341 woman” (there is a video on this news feed with the counselor & the wife & husband on this page also)!

YES!! this former Piston Pro basketball player sleep with 341 woman before & during his marriage!!!

When I sat on my new counselor’s couch after escaping my then husband (now ex), I told her I thought my husband (now ex) had slept with 8 to 12 woman. She told me that it was “more like 3 to 4 times that amount as sociopaths are serial cheaters”.

Here is a perfect example of this! And a counselors that is NOT educated what so ever on sociopaths or their abusive ways.

This wife in the video walks away…that is her GUT INSTINCT to WALK WAY but the counselor is telling her not to walk away.

Our marriage counsel did the same thing to me when I said in marriage counseling with the sociopath siting right next to me saying I wanted a divorce & I was done with the marriage. The counselor Literally talked me into staying with him!! I stayed another 7 years in hell. Mean while my then husband was telling me not to trust counselor on the drive home (so I would not go back & he would have full control over me) so I did not return to counseling. I stated every trait of a sociopath without knowing when describing my then husband to the counselor she never told me these were traits of a sociopath. I hope this wife divorce this SOB sociopath!

This counselor thinks the issue is his drinking problem…it is NOT and we all know this he has PERSONALITY disorder!! He will never change.

Hope you post this video Donna & the yahoo article.

This makes me sick to my stomach that the counselor told this wife not to walk away from the cameras & this sociopath!!


This is awful


still do this.


Lung Hi all, first post.

I have been out of a relationship like this for over six months now. I’d like to believe that I have moved on, but I find myself very drawn to my ex. Is moving the goal posts always considered abnormal behavior? My ex would be so sweet and attentive and patient and then suddenly, she’d seem so completely removed and disinterested. She’d say she was happy with our life together, and my son, but it often seemed like she either wanted to convince me she was happy with it or wanted to convince herself that she could do it. Either way, it didn’t feel like it’s what she wanted towards the end. We moved into a new apartment and the first day we were there, she went out with a friend and bought stuff to decorate the new apartment. She even hung it up and surprised me with it. The very next day, she was telling me how miserable I made her. She said I was too needy and controlling because I was so needy and codependent. Then I told her she could leave and she laughed then silently started moving her things outside to be picked up. I guess I panicked at the thought of her leaving me so I texted her from 30 feet away to try to stir some emotions in her about what it would do to my son. It became clear that she didn’t feel guilty about this, although it probably wasn’t fair for me to try to bait her using my son. I guess I just wanted to know if she really was capable of just leaving that quickly and easily. It didn’t seem possible. We’d been together for six months already, and it just seemed “off” that she could just be ready to go without hesitation. She agreed to come back in, but I feel like she could tell I was trying to be manipulative and she exploited that opportunity because she ended up using it as leverage to run the show. She could see how scared I was to be alone and how it hurt me to think my son had gotten close to her and she was just going to leave. I frequently tried to use tactics like this to make her reconsider, but whenever I felt like it was working, like I had somehow gotten through to her, she’d end up with all the cards. Anyway, I rambled a bit but I just have so much on my mind. Even after all this time, I still think about her and even call her. I told her multiple times that I believed she was evil, and I never got any kind of emotional response to that. She never even seemed offended or bothered by it, but she’d use it as leverage. Is that a form of moving the goal posts? Or am I way off? Sorry for rambling, I just really want to understand. Anyone have any insight for me? I’m open to hearing anything to make sense of this. Please and thank you! Have a wonderful day, all!



Sadly, what you describe is classic behavior for someone with a personality disorder. The manipulations, the hot and cold emotions, love bombing followed by disdain, behavior that is contrary to previous behavior, using information as a weapon (leverage, as you called it), no exhibitions of guilt when being called evil (because they don’t care if they are, and TOTALLY believe they are not anyway). And being vulnerable with these types of people only gets us more abuse, no sympathy, and certainly no change of behavior.

It would really be best to stop having anything to do with her, before she ropes you and your son in for more abuse. And, make no mistake, treating the two of you this way IS abusive. Don’t put your son through it. Take care of BOTH of you.

These types only want one thing: Control. And they will do ANYTHING to remain in control. When they are in control they can get otherwise healthy, normal people, to do lots of stuff they want. Give them sex, attention, money, credibility, etc.

Think of it this way…they are forever in survival mode, and believe if they don’t stay in control they won’t get what they WANT, every second of every day. And they cannot bear this. They are more like children than adults, in that they cannot regulate their desires. They MUST fulfill their whims, and cannot postpone any level of gratification for long. This makes them irrational on the one hand, and quite calculating on the other.

If they are especially intelligent their manipulations can be quite complex and subtle, making them look smug and superior. The less intelligent are more obviously ‘bad’ or ‘crazy’, but can still bamboozle the best of us.

Please draw a firm line between yourself and your son, and her. She is not worth the risk.



So I’m in the midst of a terrible smear campaign. This mutual friend is taking my photos and writing whore and made a fake fb account. She’s writing terrible things saying I sleep around with married men which I truly do not. I can’t sleep I have panic attacks she keeps posting and saying she’s sending my job a letter to my Job that i was having phone sex on company hours. It’s a nightmare. She’s blaming me and not him at all.


sbff8, I’m sorry that this smear campaign is happening to you. Very emotional time for you. What ever you do, DO NOT ENGAGE in any conversation with this person whether via the internet, phone or in person. Just go to the police and/or get a lawyer involved for a cease & desist letter other wise you will sue her/him also look into the social media site to have these post removed asap due to stalking & harassing. Follow the NO contact rule (google) with this person & him.

DONT TAKE THE SOCIOPATH BAIT!! He wants to triangulated with her. He wants you fighting over him. Sociopath love to have control over others. He may want to get YOU arrested. So dont play his/her game.

YOU are educated on sociopath smear campaign & sociopath triangulation, so just sit back & dont play his sick & twisted game. He wants you to get emotional dont let him rent space in your mind.

When you dont play a sociopath’s game = YOU have control not him!!

Remember sociopaths love to have control over others.


I did contact the police and the states attorneys office and they are getting back to me. The flying monkey of his ( the mutual friend I confided in) made a social media page saying I’m a slu** and I sleep with married men and I only told on him “because I was jealous and ego hurt” he rejected me. He didn’t reject me he discarded me because summer was coming- because his wife is a school teacher.

I put it all together especially when a second woman told me he had been writing her. It wasn’t a physical relationship he had with her but who cares. He was still engaging with her and telling me I’m the only one he’s ever had this feeling for.

The slander is awful. I have heard his wife found out and the woman harassing me said I did it. I don’t even know his wife and I did not tell her. I would never I’m too afraid of these people I just wanted out. There are more than just me so who knows who told. You want to know the twisted part? I feel bad he got caught. I just wanted to be far away from him and let karma handle. In the meantime I feel sick. She posts things daily- private things just between him and I. I have plenty of things even voicemails of him saying he loved me so much. I’m not doing anything. I’m not slandering him I’ve had no contact. The way she’s slandering has to be illegal. She’s saying the most wretched things


TGke good care.

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