By | February 2, 2017 41 Comments

Sociopaths Lie Even When The Truth Would Work Just Fine

Husband Liar Sociopath

Every week, a chapter of my book, “Husband, Liar, Sociopath: How He Lied, Why I Fell For It & The Painful Lessons Learned” (available via, just click on the title or book cover) will be published here on Lovefraud. To read prior chapters, please see the links at the bottom of the post.

Chapter 38A:

I always considered Paul honorable and honest, so it took me an embarrassingly long time for inconsistencies in his version of events to register as what they were—lies. I knew my husband had faults and, in all likelihood, had had an affair with Anne-Marie, but it never occurred to me that he was fundamentally dishonest and a chronic liar. But I could not escape the observation that Paul lied seamlessly about even the smallest things.

One night, I asked Paul if he had locked up the house. That task typically fell to me, but I was not feeling well and had already gone to bed. “Of course,” Paul replied. The next morning, I was up before Paul and noticed that the front door was unlocked and a window in the kitchen was wide open. From then on, when Paul told me he had locked up, I found an excuse to get a glass of milk or leave a note for myself in the kitchen, only to discover that Paul had lied about locking the house for the night. Perhaps it was just too beneath him or too much effort, and it was easier to lie than take the extra minute to check if the doors were secure and his family was safe.

Sociopaths lie for the sake of lying. They lie about little things. They lie about big things. Some people have observed that sociopaths will even lie when telling the truth would be more advantageous. Others have observed that sociopaths lie not only to cover up questionable and even nefarious activities but also to feel in control and to manipulate others for the sheer fun of it. Why lie about locking the house for the night or taking the dog for a walk or forwarding a phone message? That’s just what sociopaths do. Dishonesty and chronic lying are their hallmarks.

One summer evening, on Daniel’s twelfth birthday, we planned for Paul to pick up a pizza and be home no later than 6:30. I called in the pizza order. Paul knew the timing was important, because I had to leave by 7:00 to get both children to their sports practices forty minutes away. Daniel wanted a special mushroom and pepperoni pizza from his favorite pizza place, which happened to be close to Paul’s office.

Daniel, Jessica, and I waited and waited. Six-thirty came and went. No Paul, no pizza, and no phone call. At 6:50, I called Paul’s cell phone. No answer. At 6:55, there was still no sign of or word from Paul. Just as we were about to get in the car to leave, Paul pulled into the driveway. He got out of his car holding a pizza. It was 7:02.

“Where are you going?” he asked, his voice laced with annoyance.

“Practice. We’ll just heat up the pizza when we get back,” I said.

If you are a reasonably normal person and you did not get home on time with a pizza requested by your pre-teen son on his birthday, what would you do? Wouldn’t you apologize and try to do your best to make it right. Not if you are a sociopath.

First, a sociopath does not care that his son is disappointed or hurt. With no empathy, a sociopath does not have even a flicker of concern for another human being’s feelings, even those of his own child.

Second, a sociopath cares only about himself. The only true emotions he can experience are anger and frustration. (A sociopath can experience pleasure and pain, but those are sensations, not emotions.) Paul felt frustrated and angry that he took time to stop whatever he was doing to get a pizza and to get home before he really wanted to be there. Now his family was leaving, and he would be alone (something he detested, because sociopaths dislike being bored), and it was not even the kind of pizza he liked. The fact that he knew his family had to leave at 7:00 did not mitigate the fact that he was the one who had been inconvenienced and he was the one who felt abandoned.

Third, a sociopath never thinks he does anything wrong, because he is an inherently superior being. If something has gone awry, it must be someone else’s fault. As always, I was a convenient target of Paul’s blame. I had grown accustomed to being held responsible for everything from misplaced credit card invoices (I had not figured out yet that Paul took them on purpose and hid or destroyed them so I would not notice his spending on “extracurricular activities”) to having no socks to wear (the fact he never put them in the laundry hamper was my fault somehow) that I hardly noticed.

Start from the beginning:

Chapter 1

Go to previous chapter:

Chapter 37B


Identifying names, places, events, characteristics, etc. that I discuss here and in my book have been altered to protect the identity of everyone involved.

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Hope Springs

Yes, you do grow accustomed to being the one who is yo blame for everything.

That is the sad truth.


When the public is fed this, who am I to expect anything different?


I’m totally new to discover thru extensive googling of the thing’s he’s done to me & someone that befriended me & used me to gain access in-between me and my bf by dangling the carrot (meth) infront of him like a grey hound chasing the rabbit did then the races begin as he treated me even worse. But this maggot Jen (a drug dealer) that had come into our lives thru a mutual person told me he was gaslighting & stonewalling me. When I came upon Lovefraud & The 3 Faces of Evil.
What I read and identified with every word on every line blew me completely away & just couldn’t believe that I had finally solved one of the biggest mind & emotional torment mystery in my life that was going on & I did it by myself with no help from those close to me that I know knew exactly what was going on but wouldn’t help me fill in the blanks. They kept the answers of what he’s doing to me well guarded like as if they were guarding the Mona Lisa! All I ever got for answers were sad pathetic attempts to mask their grins & keep this fake sad look appearance when facing me to trick me into thinking they were on my side but they never were. And tell me “idk” to every direct question I asked them all. Sometimes begging in tears for my pops to quit keeping his secrets of me wondering if he had somebody on the side cheating on me. My s.p. would talk to hisself anyways when working thru job issues fixing cars but as time started going on I noticed it was like he was having conversation with somebody but there was nobody around & he didn’t have a cell phone & he barely used mine but only called the same 3 people. His parents, a friend, & pops at the shop. It was like he and pops had a code of talk bc they would talk in such a low volume using only a few words but I’d say what did you just say & they’d get well my s.p. would get this disgusted annoyed look on his face & both deny even saying one word when I know dam well they said something bc I heard them talk. This happened all the time. What’s weird is our mutual friends gf started doing the same thing as my bf of 4 yrs did when they were in the same room together. This is not even the tip of the iceberg. But to finish up part 1 of my story I started becoming paranoid even more & then teasing him about hiding a girl in the attic in the garage. Which led to him getting super pissed off and irritated that I’d even think that he would cheat on me as he is a “1 woman man & I was more than he could handle”! So I started hearing a woman’s voice eventually & asked him finally if he had sum sort of device installed in his mouth or ear, in his head that allowed some sort of communication between him and the female I hear him having a conversation with. He stick to his story that he’s only talking to hisself & that nobody is here in our house or in the attic. And so it began the demise to our once happy relationship and family that lead to our forever end of him & I & the increase of him telling me that I was crazy, paranoid with all the trimmings of becoming insecure and that’s unattractive to any man that your with.
I have so much more to share as far as my story goes but just writing this has taken so much out of me that I need to take a break.
I’m glad I found this community as the magnitude of horrific pain I’m experiencing is more than I can deal with some days. My some days are better than other days but I miss him so much and am still in love with my abuser. Idk how to live without him. But am doing my best each day to learn how but it’s very different and difficult in what I’m used to living life as everyday.
Things like stated weren’t always as bad but is it possible that maybe he did actually at one point was in love with me or was he faking it the whole time?
2 months after we lost our home due to neighbor’s house fire unexpectedly burned out house down also then 2 months later a car falls on his head crushing his skull leading to a facial peel off reconstructive surgery. I’m trying to dissect this all even though common sense tells me that he was a sociopath before these 2 tragedies or if these 2 major events increased his sociopath tendencies? Behavior’s were going before these 2 events took place by him talking to hisself.
Thank you for reading the beginning of my story and I welcome all comments, opinions, and constructive advice positive, negative or indifferent with this newly discovered label I have within the last month finally have put a identity to the abuse I’m going thru.


You hit the nail right on! I to was ever so grateful when I could stop turning myself inside out to understand wtf was happening! I knew it was bad but I had to go back into the ring to make sense of it. Sherri Schrieber says your head wants to make sense of the madness and that this reaction is normal. It’s rough girl, but the good news is it gets better. Stay in it. Don’t fear it. Feel it. Breathe…continue getting up…there’s a lesson there and I finally got it..this will take time..probably about a year or so but I feel your pain.


Thank you for your comment! What was the lesson learned here that you finally learned? I can’t imagine what your talking about at this moment bc I feel so gutted emotionally mentally that my pain is like hot knives stabbing me over & over. I can’t stand hurting this badly & can’t understand why he chose me to do this to. I’m such an amazing good person. The realest person one will ever meet so I’m told…I now feel the realest rawest pain I’ve ever felt in my life. I can’t wrap my head around this no matter how many ways I reread the explanations or even dissect every frame of my relationship in the past 4 years, I just can’t. I’m used to being way to loved not way too much confusion and torment inside my own head, mind, heart and skin.
How do I get over quickly somebody that I simply should hate greater than Hitler when I try and tell him how much I hate him I love him even more? I don’t want to love him I don’t want to like him or hate him I want my memory to be erased of his evilness and existence so I don’t even know who he even is!!
Is that possible to have happen???


Little52 what’s the lesson to be learned that your talking about exactly? Can you explain it to me or what lesson you’ve learned from your sp experience please.
I think I try to understand but in the end I am still in major pain n disappointment in all the time of 4 years wasted. I’m trying to think back as the person that told me while he was working on my Subaru (my 1st car he worked on fixed then broke it then never fixed it again an still sits unfixed 3 yrs later. That’s the 1st of 4 he’s had his hands into an purposely ruined by doing shit half way but only enuf to nigger rig so I’d stop bitching about it until the that Jerry rig gave out. He never ever fixed my stuff right or complete. But did a perfect job on everyone else’s cars. His reason is “I’m not a paying customer, fuck her” about my explorer which he didn’t put the head gaskets on when he replaced the radiator bc it finally blew overheated for the last time”. $1300 to put gaskets on. I ain’t got that kind of money & “I’m not a paying customer”. Excuse me~~i think I overpaid and want my money owed back. Loser


It’s very interesting what you had just written.
Mine, believe it or not also a mechanic used to mumble something to himself quite often. When we were together on holidays (I live in England, he in Michigan) he would lock himself in the bathroom for at least 45min and talk to himself or sing something. He was driving me nuts as he tried to prolong everything just so we don’t go out sightseeing. When I was getting impatient he would accuse me of being there to see stuff not for him!
Anyways, he was very prone to accidents as well, often sending me pictures of a bloody finger etc so I could feel sorry for him. He also claimed that a heavy piece of equipment fell on his head as well , it was a lawn mower as far as I remember. Then he used that apparent incident to pretend that he was diagnosed with brain damage by his psychologist who never existed as it tuned out!
He only has one friend who I think has sociopathic tendencies as well , they used to abuse seagulls together and the guy is a marine biologist!
My point is that maybe they talk to themselves because they are lonely, it’s like having an imaginary friend.


Wow, that’s as far as I’m able to comprehend about your reply cloud79. It leaves me wondering if perhaps we were dating the same man or not? Oh my gosh, I do know a car fell on his head bc I was about 20 feet away from him when it happened but for your s.p. to make up those lies to get you to believe he had brain damage just drops my mouth to the floor. But I’ll tell you this much a dear friend who was at 1 point my home health care client does have major schitzophrenia with bipolar, ADHD, & other ailments wrong with him did keep me imprisoned? in believing he had brain stem cancer that was inoperable due to the fact of where the cancer was located. He told me he had 9 months to live & had spend 3 years looking for me & was relieved when he found me finally so that way he could die peacefully now bc he got to see my face & smile once again & tell me that he’s always been in love with me. (Blew my mind)-worse than that was I spent countless hours and days researching for a cure or a way to go into your brain stem which you know that’s where every nerve and stuff that makes your body function is in your brain stem. One wrong cut could paralyze you, blind you etc.
So at that point not even knowing it I was living under the same roof with 2 narcissistic sociopaths. I don’t think looking back that Ty was a s.p. bc he felt love & showed love way more than my bf did or could ever express I think in our entire relationship. 1 worshipped me & the other targeted me- (? I don’t have a word for what I’d say my bf did). Long story short I found a surgeon who made it possible to operate on the brain stem cancer thru a method called the “Gamma Knife” it’s a laser procedure. I noticed that Ty never had his paperwork from his Dr appts nor anything ever did add up and I began to intensely question him nonstop until I couldn’t take it anymore. I flat out told him that I don’t understand why you would find me to tell me your dying of cancer and allowed me bc he knew I’d not let death win without a hell of a fight first. All the exhausting hours on the computer researching, calling everywhere in us and overseas to keep my promise to him that I would find a cure to kill his brain stem cancer. I made that promise and I kept it. I found his life saving cure persay but a big piece of the puzzle was missing. After hours and hours of beating a dead horse persay just wanting him to admit to me I had wasted over 3 weeks and countless hours that he never had brain stem cancer and I laid out my proof in my case that nobody could deny any further. He finally broke and confirmed what I had feared to be the truth days before.
It broke my heart bc I care so deeply for Ty and I do know he’s mentally ill. He’s got a smile and a sparkle in his eyes that make your darkest of days brighter than the sun could ever shine.


Probably not the same guy but if he was I wouldn’t even be surprised! I spent over a year worried about his health , researching meds for his apparent polyneuropathy, stomach problems , you name it! Not to mention countless sleepless nights when I was lying in bed worried that my future husband was so unwell.
As it turned out my he forged all the divorce papers to pretend he was single and while I was so worried thinking about his health not being able to sleep he was happily shagging his wife and made her pregnant while we were in a relationship!
It’s so disgusting that I still can’t comprehend how someone can even have an idea to do something like that!


Little52 what’s the lesson to be learned that your talking about exactly? Can you explain it to me or what lesson you’ve learned from your sp experience please.
I think I try to understand but in the end I am still in major pain n disappointment in all the time of 4 years wasted. I’m trying to think back as the person that told me while he was working on my Subaru (my 1st car he worked on fixed then broke it then never fixed it again an still sits unfixed 3 yrs later. That’s the 1st of 4 he’s had his hands into an purposely ruined by doing shit half way but only enuf to nigger rig so I’d stop bitching about it until the that Jerry rig gave out. He never ever fixed my stuff right or complete. But did a perfect job on everyone else’s cars. His reason is “I’m not a paying customer, fuck her” about my explorer which he didn’t put the head gaskets on when he replaced the radiator bc it finally blew overheated for the last time”. $1300 to put gaskets on. I ain’t got that kind of money & “I’m not a paying customer”. Excuse me~~i think I overpaid and want my money owed back. Loser I’m so angry I can’t finish my original point I was writing. I’m sorry everyone


Oh dear. Stop making excuses for him. Stop wondering when he became a sociopath. Stop wondering if he loved because they don’t love. This guy found it easy to fuck with you. I don’t even want to imagine a sociopath on meth! Can’t imagine a worse scenario except the socio I knew was an attorney on Coke. They use people like tools. They only want to win. They get bored and find new entertainment…you did nothing wrong. You trusted. Forget him and focus on your insides. Your heart and soul need healing. Don’t ever let your happiness depend on other people until you learn to love yourself. Be honest with yourself. React authentically. Cmon there’s a lot of work to do…..


I am trying to stop thinking about him and wondering all this stuff and not trying to make excuses I promise..If I am I don’t mean to & it’s just how my head operates. I appreciate you reaching out to me and just making sense of it all for me is sometimes harder for me to wrap my thoughts around things that are as simply put as you have stated here clearly.
Sometimes the simplest truths or answers are just the most basic ones that are the hardest to accept. But know this I’m trying I think to not complicate the truth anymore than what I’m doing already.

Thank you


I think that another reason that sociopaths lie is for a “systems test”. They reassure themselves that the system still works – that their lies are still working. js


It might be worth considering that Paul arrived late on purpose, so he could create disappointment in his son and inconvenience his family. A normal person would not just have apologized for being late – he would have called when he recognized that he wasn’t going to make it on time so Ona could plan accordingly. Spaths often don’t just lack empathy, they are sadistic, which feeds their power and control desires.


I agree. It was his way of taking the spotlight off of his son and shining it on himself. His thinking was, “I am the center of the Universe and everyone will have to hold their breath until I arrive”. He just didn’t count on scheduled practice which thwarted his little drama to steal his sons spotlight by being late. This is what upset him. He went to all that trouble to be late and still didn’t get the light shining on him. No supply!
Once you get that their are people in human bodies who are not human, you self imposed suffering stops. You stop trying to twist into a pretzel to understand what is happening. You realize it us not you.


Freshlygutted (I love your choice, here. It is a perfect title for what’s been done to you)

I know your last question was directed at another participant here. But I wanted to chime in and provide some support.

First, I hear your pain. And we have all felt it, down to our bones, in our hearts, to the point where we truly wanted out of own skin.

I know I had moments of reprieve, but then the pain would flood in just moments later. I felt and nearly believed it would never end and that I simply could not survive it.

We ask LOTS of questions when we ‘finally’ get what and who we are dealing with. We want answers, answers, answers. And we want details. This is fine. But be prepared. The answers are always much less about your individual circumstances and waaaay more about the absolutely predictable patterns of abuse perpetrated by these types, and our nearly as predictable ‘responses’ to their tactics.

This can feel very unsatisfying. And the responses can sound canned and repetitive.

We don’t honestly have the absolute answer as to WHY they are the way they are. This understanding is a work in progress. So there are no concrete scientific narratives to give you 100% assurance that ‘he never loved you, or is incapable of love’. Or to answer questions that are relevant to your particular set of circumstances. What we have is an overarching understanding that is based partly on science, and largely on experience.

We do have a LOT of experience on this forum. Lots of new folks show up, and then there quite a few of us who have been ‘out of the chaos’ for a long time. And all this anecdotal experience boils down to some very basic understandings about EVERY single relationship with a personality disordered person. No exceptions.

One basic thing is the total NO contact is crucial for breaking the traumatic bond. Any continued contact, however small, only serves to continue the cycle of confusion and abuse.

Another is they do not change. No matter what they say. No matter the situation. No matter what. They behave the same way over and over and over.

We also feel pretty confident that they don’t share our emotional abilities. What they do feel in high levels are anger and contempt. Otherwise they experience excitement (which is not an emotion), and entitlement, and superiority.

There is more we know. But those are a few basics.

We also know stuff about being a victim of these types. And you can find tons of articles on the website about how you have been abused, and why you are feeling so much pain, and what it will take for you to have your life back.

I hope you stay here and get all the information, wisdom, and support you can. This place SAVED MY LIFE. I am not exaggerating.

((((Hugs and LOVE))))


Slim THANK YOU FOR writing to me. Thank you everyone. I read every word and begin to cry again bc I no your all correct in every sense of the meanings of being right.
I miss Derrick so very much daily. I don’t want to miss him or even still be so in love with him. But how can I just let go of our life we built for 4 years. Its very difficult for me to “just get over it, move on, or be told to find somebody else” I hate feeling and worse knowing he is content with his self and life goes on as usual without any thoughts or concerns about me or if I need help with our house utilities. I’m not even a glimpse or a speck of anything to him now when I used to be his whole world and he’s still mine. Its only 1 sided tho. He won’t fix what he ruined on my explorer bc he told our pop’s “fuck her…she’s not even a paying customer” like…really???I’m guilty of inquiring to pop’s about what he’s doing, what he’s doing, if he’s even at the shop, when I’m there I sit in distracted thoughts how I can’t believe he’s not even come in to say hi and kiss me like he used to do every time I showed up. Hed stop what he was doing no m a tree what and hug kiss me then get back to work. We were inseparable and close at one point for first 2 years. It just astounds me to No end how this change has drastically led to him being so hateful and cruel to me.
I want to know if there’s any ability to have my memory erased of all our time together and erased so idk who he even is at all so this traumatic episode doesn’t linger on & on & on. I want my memory wiped from even knowing who he even is at all?
In planning on staying in this community forever. Thank you I’ll write more later when I’m not so sleepy.
Good night all


Well, my so called mechanic promised to repair everything at my apartment when he visited me in London . Guess what?! Didn’t do shit!!! Was just laying down on the sofa claiming he suddenly developed hernia! And at night he was creating arguments , packing up suitcase and threatening to sleep on the street. Every night same scenario…



The way you feel is normal and natural. You loved him because he acted good to you and you expected him to keep his commitment and to be the person he said he was and to feel about you the way he said he did. He is disordered if he can leave you and feel nothing.

You are in pain because you’re a good caring person who bonded in a right and normal way in your relationship. It is an unbearable pain and it’s difficult to stop thinking about it, because his behavior is so wrong and so hurtful. You have experienced a big loss and you have a lot to grieve. You will feel better, but it takes time and hard work of grieving. Consider trying to spend some time resting your mind from thinking about him to give yourself a break, maybe spend some time with a friend or family member talking about something else or doing something else. After taking a break, allow yourself to go back to your thoughts about your loss. You may feel a little bit better.

When you feel ready, you might also consider getting your vehicles fixed by a competent mechanic, and figuring out ways to take care of your living expenses and your home maintenance needs without his help. After 4 years it is likely your everyday lives are interdependent and it is difficult to find new ways to get things done. It helped me feel better when I finally got rid of the half built projects in my yard, and hired my son and other helpers to do the things that my ex psychopath did. It was sad at first, but in my situation I realized the ex spath really didn’t get things done very well at best.

Take good care of yourself. You have value to the people who care about you. Anyone who leaves you and treats you badly does not deserve the good things you have to offer in a relationship.


Just a thought about healing…reliving the relationship is doing you NO GOOD. I started here at Love Fraud and got education about the Psychopath. But it wasn’t enough to heal from the 30 year train wreck of a marriage. I ended up doing online therapy with

That helped tremendously. Be happy that you got out and put ALL of your energy into YOU. NO CONTACT IS THE FIRST AND BEST STEP.


Hey Slim! What a well written, clear and concise post! I really like your explanation about how the responses can sound canned and repetitive. Nice one.

Best, One Joy


I haven’t posted here is a very long time. Hopefully, a few of the old-timers are still here. I need to talk a bit about my dad; not a spath, but a narc. a few weeks ago he put a piece of land up for sale that my mom had given to me. given the family dynamics (my mom had advanced dementia), it was not transferred into my name. I did stop it’s sale in the past. I was shocked to see a sale sign on it a few weeks ago.

I spent a lot of time discussing the situation with a friend who said he would help. We went to see my dad (we are as estranged as possible, given that my mom is still in the home. I haven’t really spoken to my dad for 8 or 9 years). It was tough.

Initially I felt relieved, and very angry. Now, I feel angry and a whole lot of other feelings that I haven’t been able to process yet. Greif is big. I am have a chronic debilitating illness, and I fight very hard to keep going. The land was to be my place to build a little house. I was laid-off a year ago, and have had to live on my savings, or I would have put the well in this year. This land, part of the farm I grew up on, means a lot to me. Now, he’s taken that, also.

I have contacted 3 lawyers – but the last one is taking a while to get back to me. This land sale is part of a larger picture of an ill-handled trust that my dad screwed up. he was the trustee for a trust put in place by another relative.

I feel trapped. Things have been really hard for the last few months, and I don’t think i have felt quite this “frozen” in fear in 30 years. I was not in good shape before he did this.

The land is no longer listed…although he said it was sold the day I talked to him, that WAS A LIE. I don’t know if it was subsequently sold or if he pulled it. I have called the real estate guy to find out, but haven’t got hi yet. don’t want to leave a message with my name.

My dad has lied, lied, lied about this trust for years. he has evaded dealing with it…oh, i need to sell such and such before I can pay out even a fraction of it…then he bought a boat. And lied about it. there’s just years of this crap.

I know we should never be surprised by what they do – he’s lied many times when he could have simply told me the truth. the vitriol that poured out of his mouth last week…he complained about all the things I had done to him in the last few years. WTF?!!! I haven’t talked to him, but that’s a narc’s mind – everything is a personal affront and an injury. He talked about how I had taken advantage of him, how I had mishandled the money I did have (ergo he doens’t have to what’s right or legal as I don’t deserve it…fuuuuu)…Hard to hear what he actually thinks of me. Hurt a lot.

do y’all thing narcs love people? …in their oh so limited ways?

so, I am left with a loss of land, hope for my health (I need to be away from man made chemicals in the environment), and finally the “head-on” loss of my dad. I feel really fucked up.


for some reason I can’t edit the above post. I wanted to add that I don’t think my dad loves me at this point in his life. I think he may have when i was a kid. you know, when I was compliant.


It sounds like you have a lot to deal with. Whatever your Dad feels for you and whether he is a narc or a spath, it does not sound like he cares how you feel. Love is action, and it does not sound like he is acting in ways that take into account your best interest. It sounds like he is trying to steal from you and justify it by accusing you of mismanaging money, etc. Even if it were true, it doesn’t give him the right to steal.

Dealing with the hurt his treatment of you causes is a big job. It is so painful when parents don’t truly their children in the naturally selfless way of normal parents.

Depending on the value of the land and other assets in the trust, it would be good if you got the best lawyer you can afford to sort it all out. You may be able to bring civil suit against him, or petition the court to appoint another trustee, and there may be criminal charges if he is stealing from a trust. Having the security of the land so you can move forward with your plans to build on it, may help you have the resources to deal with the emotional issues.


Hi Anette, Nice to see you! Thank you for your reply. You know, it’s like when we first get spathed, the reflection of our experiences is needed for healing.

The principal of the trust should have been paid out a long time ago, and the trust dissolved. I actually cannot afford a lawyer – contacted legal aid and the university legal aid to no avial. My friend found someone who is willing to at least talk about it (the idea being that he might be willing to work on contingency), but I haven’t heard back from the lawyer. I will call again this afternoon. I fear that it is too late to stop a sale. I fear…well, that’s kind of my fairly constant state right now.

Love is action. He doesn’t, and hasn’t for many years, taken me into account when he makes decisions that affect me. He’s been very ticked when I call him on his actions(in the past, been as NC as possible for the past few years).

I wish the rest of my life wasn’t such a shambles… it’s a time that I need to “coast” with this grief and pain. I think I am not very good at accepting things as they are. Well, a lot of “as they are” is pretty difficult right now. I had a business relationship fall apart when the person didn’t pay me – really liked working with this guy, but I also recognized some little twinge of something that reminded me of a feeling I had with the spath. Lot of money tied up there that I will likely never see.

Feeling like my “picker is broken.”(There was a lovefraud poster years ago who used to say this about herself.) Feel victimized….or, ergh…there is a lot of pain, and certainly not all of it is going to get resolved quickly. I feel ashamed about the state of my life. I feel ashamed about how hard things are, how impossible it is to fix most things because of the nature of my illness…My dad has shamed me, the guy I work for has disrespected (shamed) me. How do I start to not accept shame, to not take it in? (I know, bug questions. ;))

Again, thank you. I will re-read and re-read and hope for stickiness of wisdom.

One Joy


Unless your father is acting differently now due to an age-related disorder, he probably always treated you and others from the same selfish motivation. It’s very difficult to change the foundation of one’s world view and view of one’s self when you’ve been exposed to disorder from a parent (who stand in the shoes of God to their young children) from a young age. It may feel very unnatural for you to stand up for yourself and to expect others to treat you fairly, on a very basic inner level. Your dad probably ‘trained’ you to accept bad treatment by ‘punishing’ you in some way if you stood up for yourself; and you’re conditioned to allow others to mistreat you now. If you do stand up for yourself in little things (when exploiters test you as a potential victim), it may surprise you when people don’t ‘punish’ you but respect your needs instead.

I understand that you may not be emotionally up to a legal battle. You might consider what the value is of the assets that your dad is stealing from you, and consider getting a loan to pay a good attorney. You may come out ahead monetarily, even if it costs you something up front. Whatever decision you make should be what you are comfortable with and what’s best for your health, which is most important.


yah, punishment was always about withholding.
I think he has always been like this. Mom told me a couple of stories about there first couple of years of marriage. My Mom was raised in a violent alcohlic family, and was the peace-keeper in the family. She was groomed to be supply, and she and dad perpetuated that. I have heard stories about him in the past 5 years that speak to this behaviour when I was a kid and recently, with other people.

Don’t know if dad has some dementia issues or not – not around him enough to tell. I can see the high blood pressure written on his face, and that can affect people’s judgement.

With my Mom’s advancing dementia over the last few years, he has lost her as his moral compass. The issue with the trust may not have happened if she was still able to influence him. Yet, I am sure that she would always choose not upsetting the apple cart too much. I love her very much, and miss seeing her as much as I would like to. With her living with him and the dogs (new and difficult allergy) it’s been difficult.

There was a time that my compassion and desire to help others were assets in my life. They seem to now make me prey.

I was up for talking to dad, but if I can’t save the land I don’t know if I want to move forward. it;s what I really care about. But I am not sure that I am thinking very clearly, either.

Again, ty.


Just re-read my post (sorry about the typos and grammatical errors…not able to edit). See very clearly that withholding was punishment:

– affection
– money(mine)
– respect
– approval
– support

he’s a peach.

My folks didn’t have a lot, and I never expected anything monetary from them. When I got sick a few years ago and needed help, and he had the means, he didn’t care to help me.

I guess that I expect more abuse when I stand up for myself in difficult situations. It IS what happens in conflicts with disordered folks, though. Because of my illness I have to stand up for myself a tiring amount of the time. As people don’t understand the illness, they think I am whacky and I get treated with disdain. This constant has really affected me. The moral of the story: respect comes from those who are capable of giving it.


Respecting others is a choice, most people have the capacity to choose to respect or choose to exploit.

If he is stealing from the trust and from you, that is straight up wrong. He could be criminally charged. As a practical matter, embezzling/stealing from trusts is probably one of the easiest crimes to get away with and happens a lot. You have every right, and maybe an obligation to yourself if you view it that way, to use the law to get what is rightfully yours and to stop him from stealing from you. I understand that it might not be worth the trouble, but you are entitled to have what is legally yours and he does not have the right to steal from you.


Annette, this “new” blog has me a bit stymied. It doesn’t give me the option to reply to your last comment. I just want to say thank you. I have been so up in my head and really lost. Don’t know why it’s so bad, but it is. Anyway, I want to thank you again. You have really helped me out today.

I am going to keep posting for the next while. Lf is a great resource and I need to come back for a while to help unravel this pain.

One Joy


I’m glad you’re feeling a bit better. LF is a wonderful resource; I have sympathy for those who were victimized before the internet was available.

Whatever the reason you’re feeling bad, your feelings are real and you are responding in a normal way as any healthy person would respond to having been treated abnormally and badly. It is especially difficult to overcome when one has been mistreated and neglected as a child. It is likely that you have already overcome quite a lot to have done as well in life as you have. I was targeted in my mid 40’s and despite knowing what healthy behavior and relationships are and despite having a fair amount of self confidence, the experience damaged my self esteem and left me doubting myself in many ways. I’m now somewhat paranoid and easily triggered by others’ behaviors that would not have bothered me previously. I am more sensitive and for the first time in my life worry what others think of me. It never crossed my mind before the spath, I guess I just figured everyone thinks I’m wonderful and if they don’t there’s something wrong with them. LOL, sounds arrogant, but that was my basic view without ever really considering it. I didn’t know there was any other way to be. If a child is loved and valued, they are likely to value themselves and others in a balanced way. The spath experience changed that for me. I imagine it is very difficult to overcome a world view and self image that has been established early in one’s life.

What your dad feels or doesn’t feel about you and what he thinks of you has nothing to do with you. He approaches everyone from the same motivation and if it suits his purpose to treat someone badly, he will do so because of his values and beliefs. It has nothing to do with you and your worth. He is one who is deficient. You might keep in mind and remind yourself that when people act badly towards you it’s because they are bad people, not because there’s anything wrong with you; and they treat everyone badly if it gets them what they want.


Hi One Joy, so nice to see you! I’m sorry for what you are going through with your narcissistic father. I do remember your description of him well. First, I’m wondering if you have a legal aid society where you live? If not, you might consider a prepaid legal service. For $17 a month, you can get free legal advice. I have used both of those services in the past many times, and they were lifesavers for me. Knowledge is power, so you should at least find out all your options and what you can do. Hopefully, once you take action, you will start to feel better. I’m sorry for the suckiness of having to deal with P.O.S.parents. Been there.

It will be especially important to find out your legal entitlement and how to fight him in court. As you know, it’s pointless to share your actual feelings of anger and disappointment with him, so you may need to process that separately. For what it’s worth, I think it takes a LOT of guts to face the pain of growing up with narcissistic parents. And it takes strength. I think you’re up for it. You’re a smart cookie and an amazing woman. You can do this.


Hi Star,

How is your life?

Legal aid will not take this, nor will the uni. legal aid. I had reached out to a lawyer early last week that might take this on contingency…but he did not get back to me yet. I finally got through to the real estate broker…the land is sold.

I will still pursue dealing with the trust through the lawyer.

my dad is a horrible man. this pain I am feeling – it’s on him. He has tried to convince me to the contrary, but no, it’s on him.

one joy


I have written on the site in the past( probably in 2012-2013).
recently I had some disturbing information that I would like to discuss with someone whom I had corresponded with online. I do not recall her username, however she was struggling with the reality that not only was her ex, but her children involved with attempting to do her harm.
If anyone should remember her, please post onsite.

Thank you for any help you can give.



Hi, ((HUGs)). I can so relate to your experience and pain.

I have spent a lot of money divorcing my exspath and then getting the assets from him.

I have found that if you go directly to the source , realtor, court ect, that people are generally kind and honest. Contact the real estate agent who listed the land. Trust me, they do not want an issue with ownership. They might even be able to provide you with resources.
Also, take whatever paperwork or proof you have and go to your local court and see if you can do something about claiming the land.

Here is the key to finding success. You have to do this without calling out the behavior of the narc. I know this because at points I felt crazy, I sounded crazy. This, LOL, did not help me in any way. Try and have all of the facts and information in writing so that you can leave a copy behind. Trust me when I tell you attorneys are not necessarily the only people that can resolve this for you.

Good Luck-



I think that your comment is probably meant for one/joy_step_at_a_time. This poster posted about issues that you address here.


Hi discovering, unfortunately, it’s too late to deal with the real estate agent. my land is no longer mine.

One Joy


That is terrible news. I am so sorry to hear.

The proceeds from the sale are somewhere, and you are entitled to them. It’s a crime to steal from a trust. There is probably some court official who has jurisdiction over the trust, possibly the Commissioner of Accounts or similar. You may be able to go directly to the local courthouse and get some help. Your father can be criminally charged. Do you have copies of the trust documents? What attorney drew them up?


I just ran across a recommendation for this on-line legal help site in an email newsletter for abused women. Maybe this is a resource that could help you get some legal information inexpensively to help decide whether to take further action.

You might consider looking into the possibility of recovering the assets that your dad is stealing from you through legal channels.

from Bonnie Kaye’s newsletter:
“One of the most difficult problems for our women is having the financial resources to hire an attorney to learn about your rights during the divorce. Sometimes just a first consultation can run $1,000.00, and then several hundred dollars per hour. Even when you have a phone call, you’re billed in time slots of 15 minutes which can mean $100.00 or more for a short question. When you have limited resources, this may seem impossible.

Now there is a solution. JustAnswer is a service that can save you a lot of money and give you peace of mind. They cover family law in the US and in Canada, as well as medical problems, computer problems, home repairs, and veterinary problems. I have never had to wait more than an hour to get a response from an expert, and most of the time, I get a response within minutes.

I pay $36.00 a month for peace of mind, and there is no time limit. You can order the service for a month or keep it on-going like I do. I’ve asked legal questions for a number of you already, but I always advise our women to get the service. You can ask as many questions as you like. I have asked many questions about medical problems in my family as well as computer advice. I think it’s so wonderful to have your own team of experts for such a wonderful service. The link below will take you to the Family Law link, but you can ask any question to try it out yourself. Give it a try—and let me know what you think. There’s no cost to try it out on any topic—legal including divorce and custody, medical (live doctors on line!) or computer problems. This can be a deal breaker. At least you can get a lot of preliminary answers before you have to get a lawyer to go to court which will save hours of time and hundreds if not thousands of dollars.”


Here is the family law link referenced in the newsletter.


One/joy It might be worth a try. The lawyer who drew up the trust has a copy. My mom had a trust and the lawyer who wrote it has the copy.

Annette- Thanks for the information. This can be useful to many.

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