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How to recognize and recover from everyday sociopaths - narcissists
KatyDid,
Yes, absolutely! You are right. However… community colleges, while much cheaper than universities, still cost money. I’m not saying it isn’t a considerable cost savings, but for me and my daughter — we are actually quite poor so community college is tough. I’m not saying it isn’t doable — we are determined — but we can’t just whip out the checkbook.
In our area where we live, the (current, not adjusted for next 4 years’ inflation) cost of tuition of 2 years community college followed by 2 years of the state school, not including room and board (this would be living at home) and not including books, not including commuting costs — just tuition/fees — is about $30,000. That is a huge chunk of money for us.
But yes — that is probably the way she will do it! That is, we think, the cheapest route. Plus, see what scholarships she can get. She’s starting early to do her research (she is a sophomore).
Athena,
I REALLY appreciate your perspective. You are right — I am getting more worked up about it than I probably should, and 2 years early! It is very reassuring to hear that many others have been through this and found ways to make it work. I guess we will, too. 🙂
I am also terrified of taking out student loans that I cannot repay. I have a friend who did that for her son — she is $40,000 in debt (it is a debt in the name of the parent — not in the name of the student), she is now unemployed, about 63 years old, cannot pay this debt back, cannot get it discharged in bankruptcy and she does not know what to do. I fear myself getting into that situation — so will avoid student loans like the plague, trying anything else we possibly can.
Thanks Athena, good advice. I agree with you 20Years, loans in this economy when we don’t know what we are facing as a nation much less individually, are pretty risky, especially when there is no way other than paying up to get out of them.
I went to school on scholarships, grants and working. I also had a little bit of child support but I did have two kids…I lived very frugally, and a friend and I started a house cleaning business and we cleaned houses for people between classes, plus we also had other jobs and I bartered with others for things I needed with other non-traditional (single parent) and older students. I was the BARTER QUEEN…I baby sat for a guy who had a little girl and he worked on my car, I cooked for him and his daughter, and he bought the groceries..I rented a house that had been damaged by the previous renters and agreed to fix it up at my own cost, if he wouldn’t raise the rent til I finished school, so I had a cheap place to live, I carpooled kids and myself to school, I tutored other students, so I managed to get through school debt free—and did it with a kid on each hip and finished with a 3.97 GPA. You can do whatever you set your mind to do if you are willing to WORK at it and delay gratification on your “wants” and stick just to your “needs.”
Regarding university degrees:
Am against this entitlement attitude that kids are entitled to university education. Some are waking up to the fact that it’s not the panacea it used to be. Something to be said for working a couple of years too. Helps kids get some direction, gives them time to sort out who they are, and heck, a little hard work never hurt anyone. And the self sufficiency they learn, now THAT’s an education that carries them through life.
Katy, who worked her way to earn her university degree with a toddler, NO family, and no friends. and NO WELFARE.
Katy, I agree with you about a college education is not an “entitlement” for any of us. I had a full ride scholarship at 16 when I first started to college and I didn’t know what the heck I wanted and I ended up dropping out….going on the adventures to Africa with the Sperm donor P and coming out self supporting at least with some job skills, and eventually went back to college with a kid on each hip, working and taking care of my kids and appreciating my education. When I got out of high school I had NO idea what I wanted to do and didn’t have the self discipline or maturity for college as I’d never been allowed to make a decision for myself.
When I did go back to college, I worked hard at it and had a focus and a maturity that I sure as heck didn’t have when I was a kid right out of high school. I’d had plenty of job experience by then, and life experience as well. I also knew by then how to manage money and time which was one of the things I had learned prior to going back to college as an adult.
LIFE EXPERIENCE even if it is working at McDonald’s is a good thing for everyone I think. Having things “too easy” is not a good thing either me thinks. Feeling ENTITLED to the folks buying you a new car because you turned 16 isn’t a good thing either….working and buying your own car, paying your own insurance etc. is a learning experience and a maturing experience that makes one appreciate what they work for. Well, it does SOME people, with my P-son, he feels ENTITLED to whatever he WANTS and he’s willing to ROB, STEAL and KILL to get what he wants, but normal people do learn to appreciate what they EARN.
Oxy
One of the hardest lessons for me and one of the saddest things I witness here on LF is how willing some are to give the spath power over them. I don’t think we can heal from the spath until we face our own participation, what we did to our relationships or marriages. For my part, I turned over my responsibility to care for myself and once I claimed that back, he lost most of his power to abuse. Being financially independent from him CUTS a huge tool spaths can use to control and abuse. Staying angry at what he does not give or provide just feeds the negativity. Getting free and being self sufficient is SO empowering.
I did not have good parents and leaving home was one of the most empowering things I ever did. My pedophile father and my raging controlling hating mother no longer got to force me into anything. The first two weeks until I
got a paycheck was hard. I ate boiled macaroni and canned cheese soup to make mac and cheese for those two weeks. I still remember, it cost 39 cents for the mac, and 29c for two cans of cheese soup. My first purchase from my paycheck was a Henry’s Hamburger. MMM. Good.
I did provide for my daughter what I never had. And she hates me for my deficiencies. The car at 16 was used, she ridiculed it to her friends. Her education was the finest engineering school in the USA and she refused to let me see grades or progress, at 18 they can do that, stop the college from releasing grades even though the parent was paying for it. She dropped out and joined the Army. The BEST thing she could have done b/c it taught her that mom wasn’t such an overbearing taskmaster (dusting/vacumning on Sat was her family chore). And deployed to Iraq showed her what real torture and miserable lives are the norm for kids over there, and don’t get me started on what is normal for girls in MOST of the world.
She now has a degree in math and English literature and earns income as a writer, while still serving in the Army. Not bad for an angry resentful kid.
Katy, who earned her degree at age 34.
Katy
you said something that resonates with me today “until we face our own participation”
I’m at 8 weeks no contact – I have some very down days, but overall I am feeling better. I will admit some days I am seized with pain and I am in tears. Other days I feel joy again, and I think freedom is in sight.
My spath sent me a message – I thought I had blocked all methods to reach me, but I missed one – and the guy is a chicken shit, he will email but not call, or he will call but not show up. Anyway, he “emailed”. I was distraught about it. And today I almost emailed him back. Somehow I have avoided it. I tell myself these stories in my head “he makes you feel wonderful, and you love him” and then on the other side I tell myself “he’s going to cause you great pain again”, which is absolutely true.
That’s all the man does. He makes me want him, and then he turns on the pain.
I haven’t responded. In past times, I think i would have re-engaged. I am, to your point, facing my own participation in his evil games, and am doing my best to not participate any more.
Thanks katy, for posting today.
Athena
Athena,
Facing my own participation was one of the hardest things I had to do. I wanted to blame EVERYTHING on him and believe me (I know you do!) there is an unending list that he IS to Blame for.
But the bad part was me, handing my power away when it made no sense. I gave away myself hoping he would give back. But really, if a woman has to hope her sacrifice will mean he will come to love her, she has already lost. There is was, my proof, in the beginning of my journal “I will have to ignore a lot of Richard or I won’t have a marriage.” What A STUPID thing to write b/c I already didn’t have a marriage and spent how many years trying to get one. In my defense, I didn’t realize he was spath until a couple years after leaving him. That would have made all the dif in the world. Instead of questioning what was wrong with me and trying to fix me, I’d have cut and run. But by purposely ignoring much of his behavior, I stayed way too long enduring way too much humiliation until I was so sick I was on the path to die. But I also know, a spouse does not have to be spath in order to know they are toxic and that’s the time to leave, not when I was beaten down and discarded. No he hadn’t left the house but he might as weill have. He treated it like a hotel and I his maid. I didn’t leave any kindness, I left a nightmare.
Remembering WHO he REALLY was helped me past those times of desperate desire. There was Nothing I could do to make him be the person he was when he was not mean; that was up to his whim and gosh, living according to his whim was gonna get me killed. Stops me dead from contacting him. Now I am past the desire. And Happy for all the possibilities in my future, none of which I could look forward to while living with him.
Best
Katy
Katy, you said so much in your post to Athena.
It really is up to us to stop the insanity by refusing to participate.
Participating can be as simple as a smile, a frown, a tear or any other expression on our faces. Spending a dime or a dollar in response to them, using an expletive, or replying to their email, is all a type of participating.
It’s not our fault that we thought they were human, so don’t take responsibility for that. Now that we know, we can choose the right response: NC.
Katydid – I am reflecting on your recent comments. Early on in my life lesson that began here at LF I wanted to blame everything on the X, I was uncovering the truth of what he was all about and felt relief that I had survived his manipulations. But I still felt a huge sense of loss despite my relief that he was gone. I had to look at myself, my life very close and examine everything that had brought me to this point. I could see how damaged I was/am and felt equally responsible for the failure of the relationship. After months/years of self examination I had to forgive myself for my participation in such a toxic relationship. That did not mean he was ‘off the hook’ for being a sociopath. I will always feel a tinge of embarrasment and humiliation for being duped/conned by someone I only wanted to love. That feeling of loss was not for him but for me, I will never be that guy again. Reality has replaced that need that was so unhealthy for me. I have found some peace that I never realized was missing.
Ok enuff reflecting, just wanted to give you a high five for getting that life lesson and finding some peace and quite in your life.