By | July 26, 2009 49 Comments

The Lovefraud Version of the “Emperor’s New Clothes”

By Ox Drover

When we were kids most of us have heard the story of the Emperor’s new clothes, in which a very narcissistic emperor who wanted the most beautiful and wonderful clothes in his kingdom. Here is just a little bit of a different version.

Once upon a time there was a very narcissistic emperor who was very dumpy, unattractive, and had a very large nose, but he thought that if he had the most beautiful clothes in the kingdom that he would be very attractive to the ladies of the court. Even though he was a married man, he loved to have the ladies of the court admire his new clothes and tell him how handsome he was.

One day a couple of psychopathic con men were in a tavern trying to figure out a way to con someone who would be vulnerable to their scam and had lots of money. They finally came to the conclusion they would try to con the emperor.

They went to the palace one day when cloth vendors were invited to show their wares. There were people with bolts of lovely velvet material with gold stitching who showed their wares to the king, who admired it very much. Other vendors had cloth woven of spun gold and silver threads.

When the con men, who had a background as street mimes, came up to the emperor, they pretended to hold bolts of cloth in their empty hands. They explained to the emperor and the courtiers that this was magical cloth that only the honest and pure of heart could see and that would be invisible to anyone whose heart was not pure.

Of course, no one actually saw this wonderful and imaginary “cloth,” but each person didn’t want to be perceived as dishonest or not pure of heart, so everyone in the room was afraid and felt that if they were honest and said they did not see the cloth, that they would be in trouble, so they lied and exclaimed, “Oh, how beautiful!!”

The emperor, of course, did not see this imaginary cloth either, but he did not want to be perceived as dishonest or not pure of heart in front of his subjects, so he accepted what the psychopaths said as truth. He also lied and exclaimed, “How beautiful!”

The emperor sent all the honest cloth merchants away, and as they left the palace they were shaking their heads at what just happened. They admitted to each other that the emperor had been conned by the psychopaths, but were also afraid to speak up since it would make it appear they were demonstrating jealousy of the con men for getting the contract to make the emperor’s new clothes.

The psychopathic con men then agreed with the emperor to make him a unique and beautiful outfit like no one had ever seen before.

The emperor decided to have a parade the day his new suit was finished. The people were told that the emperor would be modeling his wonderful new suit of clothes and the day of the parade the streets of the capital city were lined with the peasants.

As the emperor pranced down the street with his crown perched merrily on his head, his shoes on his feet and his body entirely naked, the people of the city gasped in horror at the naked monarch they saw with their eyes, but were afraid to let anyone know they could not see the emperor’s clothes.

From the back of the crowd a small boy poked his head through the legs of the people in front and laughed out loud, “The emperor is naked!” The courtiers gasped at such an affront to the king’s dignity.

Since no one would admit that they saw the emperor naked, and the small child would not quit shrieking, “The emperor is naked!” the captain of the guard arrested the child and his parents and threw them into a dungeon.

When the child and his parents were brought before the emperor who sat naked upon his throne, the parents vowed that they could see the emperor’s lovely clothing and they didn’t know what they could do with their crazy child who continued to claim the emperor was naked.

The emperor decided that the child should be confined in a mental hospital because he was obviously crazy.

As the weather changed in the fall, the emperor called for the psychopathic tailors to create an outfit that would keep him warmer for the winter. Unfortunately no one could find them, they simply seemed to have left town.

The end.

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Ain’t that just the chit! The p’s leave town, & the victim is left holding the legality bag, broke, & reputation shot! Thanks, Oxy, for giving this tale a new spin! I needed a reason to smile today!


Does anyone think that these sites are acctually set up to study Sociopaths?

Because we know they are not likely to seek professional help.

I got this link origianlly from LF .

“Warnnig” this is not a friendly site but it does offer a view from a safe distance. They seem to be just as mean to each other as they are to real people? I guess it is their desire to one up the other?

Ox Drover

Dear Easy,

I do not think they are set up to “study” psychopaths by anyone who is a legitimate researcher. I think that what you said about their desire to “one up” each other and the tendency for like-minded individuals to band together for mutual conversation is the reason. Also, they like to have an “audience” to appreciate their performances, at least some of them do. some of them also seem to me to be STUCK in an adolescent male attitude of “show off” to their peers. Not all adolescent males go through this and not all Ps do, but there seems to be a part of them who do.

STILES , glad you got a smile from my revision of this age-old tale…



Another story that came to mind when I read your revision was The boy who Cried wolf. I am sure you can adapt this one to the LF creed.

I made the mistake of posting on one of these sites when I was in the research mode. It was revealing in that They love a war of words . The kind we avoid spelling! I learned that there is No point. Like asking Parsites to be nice and eat rice!


Help Lfer’s! This story kind of applies to my situation and i need your help once again. I have had NC with my S for a 6 or 7 weeks with one phone call slip, now it’s been another 6 weeks. I live in North Carolina (NC!),so does he. During the phone call he told me he was moving to Utah to hide from the child support people (first marriage). Utah is where his present wife is from and where 4 of her 5 kids are(he took one to NC with her but got her to leave her kids which were taken away from her fromm DSS but in her Mom’s care “cute”)-the one that he met while he was with me for 10 plus years and married 2 months later…that was a year ago-May. I won’t get into all the boring kaotic details.

I have done a great deal of healing, it took a long awful year of keeping contact off and on, his lying, getting $$, my addiction to him and hatred at the same time to let go of the kaosand I finally did. I’ve been feeling better and better and felt like I’ve started to get my life back..but psychically I felt there would be some contact and sure enough last Monday he left a message telling me he was definitely moving in 2 weeks blah blah blah-and he actually wanted to sell me a kennel for my dogs. First of all he knows i have a beautiful fenced in yard,second SELL!? he’s gotten so many thousands of dollars from me in various ways I would say it’s close to $100,000.

I was strong and happy he was moving, maintained NC -however all this sh__t is coming up this weekend. All the resentments, anger (I’m no where close to forgiveness anyway, but he wasn’t on my mind all the time). Today and yesterday, i’m obsessing, seething, just a little tempted to call but i don’t have his cell and he told me in his message he would be out of town until close to 8/4 starting saturday (yesterday). I don’t think I will call-because the silly thing about it is that I want him to make it all better. What all better, I ask myself? I guess it’s my loneliness- my one close friend is working all weekend- a couple I became friends with recently- I realized they were using me (too).
I’m sad, angry and angry that he’s on my mind more than he has been. I look forward to August 5th when he’ll be gone- but I just want to get back to the place I was in- where he was starting to fade instead of the forefront of my mind.
So the sociopath is leaving town YAY!!! far away (my mom says “he’ll be back which scares me-i said”he’s married” but she said “it doesn’t matter”, (his family is in NC too but she thinks he may come back to try again, I guess)

I’ve rambled on again but NEED YOU who may understand and give me some help and insight. Much Gratitude and Love to those of you who are so dedicated and giving even after you have finished your healing.
Britney Hammer

super chic

brit: Well, I certainly haven’t finished my healing so I can’t say I have any insights, but I just wanted to share that loneliness really gets to me too and I sometimes would like someone to make that better, even if it’s the ex, which is crazy, but I have those thoughts myself. It’s been about 3 mos NC for me with the latest one (yes, there is more than one) and I know if I see or hear from him I am going to start shaking and probably crying. But like someone recently said, I’m holding my own cards now and I’m not going to lay them on the table any more after 5 minutes, I’m keeping them to myself. Maybe we’re on the same journey to find the healing others speak of when they say being with themselves is enough, sometimes I do feel like a “complete” person, albeit a lonely one.

OxDrover: Great post! Loved it!


Shabby-thanks! My self
esteem is definitely getting better-I think this move across the country of his, although I’m
happy about it is kind of like closing
a chapter. All the things that he’s done, lied about, taken from me, the horrible drug addiction that I was led into and nearly lost my life (I’m not saying he shoved the pills in my mouth, mind you-but I probably would not have gotten so addicted to Oxycontin that the Doctor at the rehab said it was one of the most severe cases he has heard of), the $10,000 I loaned him from my trust for computer school and instead of doing that-he thought dealing Oxycontin would be more lucretive..all the times I tried to end it- in Florida, in Virginia, when I was at the rehab and home in PA., then the many times in NC- but he always managed to sway my little codependant self back into the relationship. ….Until he met her…looks like me, but cold, insensitve, angry, very poor backround and young. (he always went for older women)
the violent, unfeeling mother of five and just left without telling me (“I tried to tell you twice!”) Gee, that’s the kind of respect I get after 10 years??? I should have been glad to get rid of him- but I was so addicted to him, the kaos-so codependant I couldn’t eat, I lost my jobSuch anger, such hurt you all know what I’m saying…I’m so tired of it all- feeling like I’m coming around to having own life and then all this mess comes up… I hope it goes away as quickly as it came…it scares me to think he would be on my mind again alot of the time like he used to be 4 or 5 months ago.
Shabby, we need to just keep putting one foot in front of the other and do the next “right” thing I guess. Hopefully, more healthy people will come into our life as we get healthy.


Britney and Shabbychic

I can identify with both of you on the lonliness issue.

I escaped over a year ago and, albeit, a few painful calls from him, have been in NC since the beginning of the year.

Like Britney, I too got very badly ‘fleeced’ financially and this has added to the long-term consquences. Before I met the S, I had a much wider circle of friends and support – he put paid to plenty of those and it has been an uphill struggle to try to re-establish. Being financially limited doesn’t help either.

However, I find that setting myself goals to do things I enjoy everyday, little by little, has helped eased this. I know it can be hard to find the motivation and I hope that you won’t feel I am just stating the obvious and being ‘trite’. The physical has helped me alot – going off swimming, cycling, have a project in the garden – sometimes, just having someone to talk to about the ‘everyday’. I wish I could offer more but this has been my experience so far. It also means that sleep comes more easily. Yes, there are days when I feel that I am just exhausting myself but any distraction is better than the endless ‘going over’ in my head about the multitude of chaotic events that reduced my life to what it became last year.

All love to you both and keep posting for strength.


Britney, Shabbychick, & Escapee,
I can’t offer much of a solution, either, other than what I do. I always have a list of “projects” to do, that superman couldn’t finish in his lifetime. I usually end up working 60-70 hours a week, between my full time job, my part time job, & busy work. It keeps my mind occupied. I always get very depressed when I get to thinkin’ too much. All of my kids are out on their own, now, so I’ve become pretty much an invisible person.


I have lots of projects too, but on hot humid cloudy days, my knee hurts and these feelings are up for me (I think cause of the move, changes)…I don’t feel like doing any of the projects …It hurts to walk around-i”m filling out a job application right now (that should have been done Friday) then I’ll take a shower, then see what else there is to do, but I’m a little pessimistic and in self pity mode right now. I’m also Tv’ed out. 🙂


Dear Britney, Shabby and others,

One of things that helped me was to actually go through the whole potential “reunion” again…IN MY HEAD…to literally imagine I called and was weak and giving into my lonliness and imagining us meeting or him coming over… I then separated fantasy from reality in my mind…

Fantasy being…. we make up, we work it out, he changes and stops sleeping around and making bad choices and stops asking for loans or just for sex and stops playing games and makes a future a good life with me….

Reality being… he is showing up in hopes to fulfill HIS NEEDS… He will return only to turn around and be the same person he has always been. Selfish, immature, greedy. He is unable to truly love me or have a normal healthy relationship. He will continue to bring chaos into his life which will ultimately cross over into my life. He will never be balanced and relaxed and “even-keeled”… He will always go through bouts of boredom that to him the answer is to seek multiple partners or jobs or verbal abuse…Reality being IS HE REALY WHAT IM MISSING AND WHAT I WANT??? IS HE THE GUY OF MY REAL DREAMS? OR AM I JUST SO DOWN AND OUT AND FEELING LONELY THAT HE JUST SEEMS LIKE A GOOD ANSWER AND A SOMETHING TO FOCUS ON, BECAUSE THE MINUTE HE WALKED OUT MY DOOR I WOULD BE WORSE OFF TRIPLE FOLD – AS I WOULD FEEL USED AND ABUSED ALL OVER AGAIN – BECAUSE THATS WHAT HIS CHOICES AND ACTIONS ARE AS HE IS WIRED WITH THE INABILITY TO BE A REAL FRIEND AND CAREGIVER TO ANYONE – EVEN HIMSELF.



sry for the caps…once i hit Caps Lock… I dont take the time to go back and lower case! Lol

And btw, I am still practicing mental strength to this day, when my mind wonders or lonliness strikes.. I revisit fantasy vs reality and I choose to live my life in the real world each time.. not with him in an chaotic crazymaking fantasy life…


learnthe lesson, your post brought me to tears…the tears of truth. I’m going to print your post so i can see it frequently. i need to help myself right now and focus on the future. I’m in love with a fantasy. So I’m down this weekend, it’s 300 times better than the life that I felt so trapped in with him.
I’m grateful I have something to do at around 5pm, I have not been able to get in touch with the few people I would like to, so I can just hang with me…and if I need to, I’ll read your post again. Thanks.Bless you.


Dear Britney,

You are going to be okay AND YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE IT! So you are recognizing you are down this weekend — do you know how many wont take the time to recognize whats going on with themselves this weekend — and they will make choices based on fear or lonliness or rejection– BUT YOU HAVENT AND ARENT GOING TO!

When you are just hanging with you – do something youve never done before — or do something you really need to do and have been putting off — I shared when I first began this journey I COULD NOT GET OUT OF BED… I literally pulled a drawer from my dresser and began organizing the clothes in it…eventually I sat up and moved on to my closet…etc. then I listened to fun music…shades went up one day and I havent looked back ( Ive had setbacks…but I just keep getting to know myself) and give myself all the time and attention I was giving to the BAD MAN. It absoultely works…will work!!! It aint easy… there are sometimes tears in a bubble bath or pulling over when i hear a song — but I let it out – and then say exactly what you said Britney — I would be so much worse off and feeling so trapped if I were with him…

This is a path, a new path, you create for yourself. You will have setbacks but thats what LF is for and getting to know yourself and your triggers and strengths. Turn off your answering machine until after 8/5…so you can avoid his pathetic messages. YOU DONT NEED TO HEAR HIS PITY STORY OR CHAOTIC LIFE ANYMORE~ do you have caller id? just return calls to the people YOU KNOW…say your machine is on the brink.. or whatever to those who inquire.

He doesnt deserve your goodness and understanding anymore. His actions show that! Thank your lucky stars your not the one with all the kids that he is running away from responsiblity and child support people… and the new one in his life or future new ones will be the unlucky ones.

If you continue on this path of healing and letting go – you actually may be the only lucky one in this chaotic mess. you need to get to the place that you dont care where he is living or running or going – as long as its away from you. Because he is not the guy for you. Just a part of your past. A VERY BAD PART OF YOUR PAST. You are stronger than you realize — look inside and tell yourself you deserve better – and you are better already!!!!! KEEP POSTING ALONG YOUR JOURNEY – we all need somebody to talk to along the way!!! Too hard to do this alone!! Take care!

Ox Drover

Dear Brit,

I am so sorry that you are going through this tough time, but it IS AN ADDICTION—and I suggest that you treat it like one to cocoaine or something else, because the brain chemical reactions are very similar to a drug/alcohol addiction, you are in the craving stages for a “hit”—if and when you got the “hit” it would throw you right back into the pits and it would not be “good” but before you even c ompletely got out of the pits again, you would start to crave another “hit.”

In addition to all of this, I think you are DEPRESSED as well the non interest in projects or doing anything else. I STRONGLY recommend you get an appointment with a psychiatrist (not just your family doc) and be assessed for the need for some antidepressant medications. In addition, to medical help, I also strongly suggest you get some therapy.

Sweetie, if you had a badly broken leg you wouldn’t try to set it yourself and trying to “fix” a MAJOR DEPRESSION without medication and without help is very difficult and leads to a slower resolution if there is a resolution, so honey, get some help ASAP. LF is a help, but sometimes though it is very good, it is like looking up the directions on line for setting your broken leg—you just need more support than we can give you here alone. (((((hugs))))) I will be praying for you my dear as well.

super chic

LTL: Thank you, I needed that, and thank you for taking the time to write it, you have always been very giving and supportive and I appreciate it more than you’ll ever know!


Oxy Drover – Your article makes me think of the times I have had dreams where I was naked in public. Has anyone ever had those ‘oops I am nekkid’ dreams? Yes my X held out invisible hopes and dreams for me as well. I think it has something to do with vulnerability….Learn I loved your advise to Brit. I dont fantasize about a reuinion with the X anymore…Too much pain to even consider it. Brit you will be ok, gonna take some time tho. When we are involved intimatly with a physcopath part of the recovery is taking the lid off our whole life and sorting out our past. When we kind of educate ourselves about ALL the pods in our past we wake up to a new reality..better or worse the truth will set you free.

Ox Drover

Dear Henry,

No, I don’t think I’ve ever been “neakid” (notice: you “spelled it wrong” LOL) in a dream, but I’ve done many other “embarassing” things I would never do in public even if I would do them in private! LOL

I saw your “PODS” and I think that is a really good “name” for these creeps, and I bett’ya I can tell you what it stands for! ha ha

I just noticed the new LOVE FRAUD FEATURE—-on the right, the “report abusive comment” option to click on and I think it is WONDERFUL!!!!! That is a GREAT positive change that has come out of the recent chaos, and allows folks to instantly report any signs of abuse to the management without having to know where Donna’s e mail is, or if they are hesitant to just look for it or to e mail her directly.

I want everyone here to know though, that DONNA IS AVAILABLE and though my interactions with her have mostly been by e mail, I have never sent an e mail that she did not PROMPTLY return AT LEAST BY THE NEXT MORNING (she does have to sleep as well as work!)

I think this is absolute PROOF that even a BAD THING caused by apparent Ps looking for LULZ can turn into a POSITIVE thing for all of us and a learning experience. I have seen this kind of clickable link on other blogs and actually didn’t even think about suggesting that one be put here, but whoever thought of it KUDOs to you!

I also think that this is proof that no matter WHERE you are, the Ps will infiltrate that space in one way or another, in a big way or a small way, but they ALWAYS CAUSE CHAOS and if we are not HONEST AND PURE OF HEART with ourselves and those around us, we will not succeed in stoping the chaos.

We need to be like the little boy and to TELL THE TRUTH even if it is UNPOPULAR and even if everyone in the entire world is saying the opposite. Like henry said “the truth will set you free” and here is the REST of that post, from an old blog, “BUT FIRST IT WILL PISS YOU OFF.”

If the emperor/king had been honest he woujld never have walked naked down the street, and if the people had been honest, it would have stopped there, but the whole thing is that DISHONESTY and PRETENDING that “everything is as it should be” when it IS NOT RIGHT, is what allows the Ps to do their damage and then fade away to move on to more victims.

I think if ANY ONE person had spoken up when the Ps were ‘displaying their invisible cloth” that the entire kingdom would have been better off. It took an honest child (who I am sure was rewarded with a good sound butt smacking when he got home) to tell the truth. Because HE BELIEVED HIS OWN EYES and was HONEST.

We need to BELIEVE ourselves and our own gut instincts—-AND I AM SO GLAD THAT SO MANY OF THE POSTERS HERE DID “SEE” THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS IMPOSTER-BLOGGER. I still say A+ for VISUAL ACCUITY for this group! What we did or did not DO may have been off base, but our VISION was CLEAR and we did LISTEN TO OURSELVES, and that I think is the take home lesson for this week!


Re: “report abusive comment”,
:I think Kathy thought of it, but whoever did…..THANKYOU and
TOWANDA!! ITS GENIUS!!! And what a fantastic thing to come out of that experience..I just love it when that happens! GO LOVEFRAUD!!! xoxxo

Thank Donna for making the change. This will hopefully help us nip these things in the bud.


How do you avoid a toxic situation on LF…talk it through with honesty and openness…low and behold at the same time you find a way to weed out and ward off potentially toxic individuals who stalk the site!!! BRAVO LF!!! WELL DONE!!!


My art teacher thinks that she has the “magical threads” on! i have her for TWO DIFFERENT SUBJECTS (BOTH COMPULSORY), so God either wants me to move somewhere else or make sure I’ve got the lesson.
I can see her P nakedness, and a handful of friends can too. Still, like the King, she holds the power.
And come to think of it I have been squealing to my classmates, “The art teacher is naked!”.

Ox Drover

Dear Tilly, ROTFLMAO!!!! You naughty kid!!!! Telling the TRUTH!!! How CRAZY OF YOU!!!! What will we ever do with yuou for telling the truth!!!
Boy, will that get you into trouble.

In fact, today I TOLD THE TRUTH. It will probably get me into trouble too. I ran into a couple, he is a minister, and he and his wife were VERY “close friends” with my egg donor and my wonderful step father! He and his wife asked me “hhow is your mother?” Welllllllll, BOINK me on the head!!! I TOLD THEM THE TRUTH. I told him how I had tried to reason with her and that, I had taken her to court afte rshe refused to put the Trojan Horse Psychopath sex offender out of her house, how the judge had thrown him out but that on her PROMISE that he woujld not be allowed back, I had dropped the suit, then she lied to me (in front of witnesses) about saying she would not allow him back, etc. and told them the WHOLE STORY, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!

how is that for OUTING THE PSYCHOPATH BY PROXY?! WELL, I DON’T THINK THAT HE BELIEVED A WORD OF WHAT I SAID, but at the same time, I know this man well enough to know that when I do produce the truth and my sons as witnesses, that he WILL believe the truth. He also said that he will go talk to her about sending money to my P-offspring. I will of course NEVER EVER TRUST HER ONE BIT, but if I can do ANYTHING (even have occasional contact with her) to STOP her sending money and support to the P-offspring I would DO IT—ANYTHING!!!!

He was totally shocked to learn that MY P-offspring had been in prison for over 20 years, his good friends had NOT mentioned a single word about this—also found out that he and his wife have a P-son as well….interestingly enough, the lady’s mom still sends that P-offspring money as well. So maybe they will catch on. I am also going to refer them here to LoveFraud to read AS WELL AS TAKE THEM A COPY OF “WITHOUT CONSCIENCE” TO READ at the same time.

I nearly had a melt down as I was talking to them, standing in the store weeping my heart out, thank goodness my son D and a friend were with me, but you know, now that I am home and a couple of hours have passed, I feel HOPEFUL that maybe I can get the FLOW OF MONEY STOPPED IF NOTHING ELSE. Just stopping the money would be a GREAT WIN for me and make me that much safer as he would have less in the way of resources to use against me.

Since the PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF HERSELF is so VERY important to my egg donor, I think the chance that anyone else will find out the FAMILY SECRETS may at least make her rethink the money thing. Of course there will have to be some checks and balances as I CANNOT AND WILL NOT TRUST HER TO KEEP HER WORD….I’m sure she will smear me to high heaven with this man, but I also think that by proviing my case first along with witnesses he knows are good men (my two sons) I may have found the perfect way—-not going to be disappointed if I dont’ succeed with this ploy, but I will take advantage of any opportunity to stop the flow of money.

I will keep you guys posted!!!!! THE EMPEROR IS INDEED NIEKED!!!! OH, MY HONOR HE AIN’T GOT A STITCH ON!!!!


it’s nekkid oxy not nieked – sheesh you need spell check


Dear oxydriver, Believe it or not I see a great therapist 2 x a week, last year when I was in worse shape-3x week. I am bipolar and on medication but started Cymbalta 3 1/2 weeks ago. I felt great relief, from all- but i think 1) hearing his voice (by accident) last Monday 2)knowing he’s moving and a new “chapter” (a good one at that) is starting where he’s NOT in my town-there’s still a little sadness and 3) not having anything planned this past weekend and too much time on my hands- my one girlfriend I hang with was working–all combined into almost a “relapse” effect–today is much better, I feel pretty good..I’m not working now so I still have a little bit too much time on my hands but I’m feeling more as if I’m on the “recovery wagon” and I had a little setback.
For me, TOO much time with just me can be dangerous!
Love you all for your help and support and just that you understand about s’s…amazing!


Don’t forget if your mum is a cluster B she doesn’t really want contact with you. She only pretends to. So you can’t use that one as a ploy for her to stop sending the money.
But you CAN use all the others. Provided you remember one thing. You have to grab the opportunities, (like you did today)to make yourself safe and then you have to hand it over to God.
( “I feel HOPEFUL that maybe I can get the FLOW OF MONEY STOPPED”)
You can’t get “hopeful” about anything Oxy, because you are dealing with cluster Bs. And they know that is your goal, so that is your weakness, i.e.that they see (“your hope”). What does a psychopath or cluster b do when they see hope??
So you must leave leave no stone unturned to make yourself SAFE. But leave the “hope” in the hands of God and surrender to whatever happens.
If God says to you “hands off the end result” of the opportunities he gives you, then thats what you do.
But like I said Oxy, I don’t practise what I preach, its too hard. but I try my best…same as you do.
I am praying for your safety and mine. (((OXY)))) xoxoxox


Henry, every time I see your post about “nekkid” I get a chuckle — and a puzzlement!!

In your first post about it, I realized that you were being funny — but the funny thing is that I can’t get the pronunciation of “nekkid” out of my mind!!!!

The puzzlement is WHERE did I hear it pronounced that way? Too long ago, I guess, but I still wonder. Maybe it was Garrison Keillor?

BTW, it is fun to be able to chuckle about something!! Thanks!




Kathy and Oxy:
I am at a loss of the right thing to do. My P art teacher has already begun her launch of attack and its not even week 3. I thought she would at least pretend to be nice for a while.
She is teaching us with another young male teacher, who has no idea of what she is. She has already roped him in as her “best friend”.
Today I asked about four questions to the young male teacher. She jumped in as fast as she could to answer them. She answered them agressively and with the last two of my questions she tried to humiliate me in front of the whole class. I pretended I didn’t understand what she meant. She laughed.
No-one else did. Which made it worse. One of the questions i asked was if our other teacher that we usually have, (who really gives me good grades and helps me a lot),if he was teaching us this semester. (He usually teaches us at least one subject a semester). WELL!
Her jealousy of my relationship with about three other people was so transparent. ” No TillY, HE IS NOT and NIETHER is BILL and BOB and will they ALL ever be glad to be rid of you and your maximalist art and you bothering them 24/7!” She yelled it across the a snake spitting.
The other questions were in relation to my art work (she gave me HD last semester, but I showed my art work to ALL the teachers before her, so she had to) plus she was using me to devalue the others. When i asked the question of the other teacher, she burst in at the top of her voice to bignote herself and make out like she could predict what i would be working on (sociopaths), then thru in some sarcasm to top it off. I pretended i didn’t see any of her hatred and devaluing and discarding. I pretended i didn’t have her number but i am sure she knows.
I felt reactive to the rest of the class like I did when our recent abuser was on the site.
So what is the “right” thing to do?
I have her for the next 3 months, if I choose to stay. I cetrtainly can’t discuss my theme of psychopaths with her. I could hide it under the umbrella of “criminals” and she would buy it. Especially criminals with notoriety. She will be critiquing my body of art work for two subjects, for three months.
I am NOT up to the challenge. Tonight i am totally paranoid and depressed. I want to give up on everything. MY SPIRIT IS DOWN. i DON’T FEEL LIKE FIGHTING ANYMORE. I AM SICK OF IT. I WANT SOME PEACE.
I told my son, but he said i was making a mountain out of a molehill and that i just have to sit at the back of the class and do my art and not be affected by it.
I think he is right.
Then why can’t i do that?
I don’t know what to do. I like the young male teacher who is genuinely trying to teach me.


P.S. HELP!!!!!!


I need you buddy! Whatdyureckon I should do?


Whats great about you is I can hear you from over there! Sayin to me,” Tilly, tell her to go and sit on a carrot! then leave with your head held high” lol!


I’m still up, hope you don’t mind my input…..
Your upset because you made a decision you wouldn’t be in the ‘trap’ again…..
But….you are in a position of student to a ‘toxic’ personality…..she is in control…..
I would suggest you decide ‘what’ you want out of this class…and what you need…..and what you will realistically will gain in the end….
Then….realize by being passive aggressive will get you only nastiness back… don’t go there…..
Go kiss ass…..keep your friends close and your enemies closer…’s going to have to be a ‘game’ to get through it… the end you will feel accomplished and have learned how to deal with ‘toxic’ people you can’t control….but you can CONTROL YOU!!!
If you must take this class then…..
You need to take a deeeeeeeeeeppppp breath and ‘play the game’. Play to the personality. Compliment her art, her teaching style…..let her believe you are on HER side…..take her defensive stance from her…..CALL ON YOUR INNER SOCIOPATH GIRL!!!! If you must stay in this class….you must deal with this… get more bees with honey than viniger……
You will have to muster up the emotional energy to deal…’s going to be a long 3 months…..but take the challenge and take the lessons that come from it.
You can find peace……your just asking for the wrong kind……peace comes from within. You don’t have to ‘fight’, this will take your energy…..fighting is different than ‘playing the game’. Life just isn’t the fantasy that we wish it were, unfortunately……there are people out there placed in our lives to challenge us! SHE Is one of them…..grasp ‘why’ she is in your life……why now, why here?
We are hypersensative, your son is right……but life doesn’t always hand us peaches and cream…..we know this… go get em girl!
You can do it, your strong and determined!

Ox Drover

Dear Tilly,

Being around someone like this that you despise the max, and then on top of everything, they are in control of your grade (or paycheck or whatever) IS THE PITS. An “Art” class is an expecially hard one too, because if you painted the ORIGINAL Mona Lisa she would have some critique of it!

Art is also very PERSONAL PREFERENCES TOO. I painted a 3-way portrait almost 30 years ago that I LOVE and only one out of 100 of my friends even like—I display it proudly in my living room because I LIKE IT.

I agree with ERIN, Tilly. The “-passive aggressive” approach is NOT going to work with this woman, it will get into a fist fight before long if you ask “innocent” questions that you know are NOT REALLY so innocent.

Just as she knows where your nerve are to step on them, you also know where her nerves are (asking about the other teacher was poking a stick at the P-teacher and you know it LOL) If you really wanted to have known you could have found out other ways than asking in class. She KNOWS I bet that her job is hanging by a thread and that the other teacher is preferred and if he could have been there she would have had no job—so you poked her in a sore spot.

This kind of ya-ya and back-at-ya verbal sparring match is not going to lead to a calm and peaceful glass, and will only keep her stirred up and you too.

I know you feel like you are under attack, but I am with your son, crawl linto the back of the room and keep a fake smile on your face and SHUT UP! when you are in class. AFter you are out of that woman’s hearing, SCREAM and SCREAM iif you must.\

I realize that SUBTLE (or NOTR SO subtle) nastiness that they can put out like a PERMAFROST IN THE AIR is irritating and demeaning, but we have to VISUALIZE THEM “NEAKID” (I don’t care how Henry wants to spell it LOL) and say to ourselves, “this woman is a snake in the grass, I just ahve to get thropugh these two courses and I CAN DO IT.”

I know it may be short term satisfaction to ask a question or say something you KNOW will set her off in a rage, but what are you gaining LONG TERM? Tilly, look at the BIG PICTURE not the petty satisfactions—RISE ABOVE HER, be the QUEEN, and quietly get the grades you need and the required courses. “Name” your art “Angels” but paint psychopaths, or whatever, this is JUST A CLASS—just a learning experience, andyou may be able to learn MORE THAN ART in this class—this is “Keeping mouth shut when you want to curse 101” GET AN A+ (((hugs)))) Love Oxy


A good analogy for the mortgage crises and how the economy fell to pieces because sociopathic businessmen fooled investors into thinking their policies were sound, even though most of the time, they didn’t understand then themselves. But they ACTED confident that they did, so, there went our money. The few people who suspected what was going on were ignored or discredited.



Don’t feel I can offer much help with your situation as I always give these sort of people a wide berth and have previously left two jobs because I’ve come up against similar types (bullies). I suppose it just depends on your mental strength and being able to take what suits your personality from the suggestions above – hope you can stay focussed on your dreams – don’t let the b**** grind you down!

Good luck.

Ox Drover

Dear Allure,

It is I think a good analagoy as you pointed out for LOTS OF THINGS, government for example! financial manipulation and scam artists of all kinds—-and the few people who do scream at the top of their lungs that “the emperor is naked” are pegged and labeled as idiots, malicious, stupid, trouble makers, etc. and everyone else, afraid to stand up says “Oh, Yes, how wonderful!”

There was a time when if you said the world was NOT FLAT you would have been put to death for your beliefs and speakingout—didn’t change the way the world WAS but sure shut up the people who spoke up.


Please go back to the post I wrote you earlier, and read it again.

If you can’t un-trigger yourself and make this about the work, and not the personal issues, you may want to put this off until you can. If you’re not finished healing from a traumatic relationship, you’re going to be reactive. And that reactivity can aggravate an already difficult situation.

In the meantime, you might consider making one more trip to the administrator and explain that you are really uncomfortable with this teacher, that you’ve already been singled out in the class for humiliation, and that you are making a formal request for alternative course work. It won’t get you anywhere, but it might put something on the record in case you ever decide to sue them.

One of the problems here is that you are already getting feedback from this teacher that indicates that she has opinions about your work and your subject matter. But it’s being presented in a public, rather than private way. I don’t know if this is her regular style of presenting feedback. But if it isn’t, I would let her know that you want her feedback, but in a less public way. Obviously you’re there to learn, not just get a degree. And part of establishing a “correct” teacher-student relationship is to focus on the learning process, not the personality issues.

Good luck with it.



Thankyou Kathy,
You are right I’m a long way off being healed! And I would NEVER sue ANYONE after what i have been through in the courts..I would never CHARGE anyone with anything in regard to myself ( only if it helped my son). Because of the legal abuse i have suffered. I have NO TRUST in the lega system WHATSOEVER.
ANd I will NEVER go to the administrator unless i was leaving the uni. It would definitely, 100% certain backfire on me.
And I would NEVER go to her and tell her what I don’t like as she would do exactly that henceforth.
So on the one hand I am powerless.
But on the other hand I am an angry b##ch who has dealt with/dealing with psychopaths since the day I was born.
I will give it one more week and if i can’t be the insignificant nerd down the back i will change my degree. It will not be the one I want and i will have to move two hours drive from here and I will more than likely run into another P, but hey, I know the P is up to the devalue and discard phase on me, so what have i got to lose?


Last night I dreamt that I was two people. One little skinny me hid in her pyjamas, narrowly missing death, while the other big fat ugly tough me got the CH#T beaten out of her (until I was dead), by THREE huge men ( 3 men = i.e.the p art teacher).
The little skinny me mearly died in the process and the shame i felt knowing they were torturing my mate the big tough me was horrific. I heard every blow.


Maybe I will paint that!


I honestly asked that question ,without thinking anything about her or who or what…I only just realised after your post that it would be a trigger for her. And i think one of the students or the course convenor has got to her and told her I something, because her malice was palpable. Another classmate commented on it to me too.
I must have done it unconsciously in retrospect.
I LOVE your idea of painting (psychopaths) (HER!) and calling it “angels.”
I can tell she is triggered by the word sociopath/psychopath, so maybe i will change all of the names of the works so that when she asks me I can say, “this one is called “nuturing the earth woman” or some crap like that! Yeah!


“be able to learn MORE THAN ART in this class—this is “Keeping mouth shut when you want to curse 101”³ GET AN A+”
yeah, I seem to keep forgetting that lesson that i have learned a million times! (AND i KNOW SOMEONE ELSE WITH A SKILLET WHO DOES TOO lol!!)

Ox Drover


Good deal! You can’t fight her and “win” because she will always come out on top, right or wrong, sxhe is RIGHT if you know what I mean.

Sucking up to her, with the “Oh, great artist’e please give me of your wonderful wisdom and tell me how my painting is a piece of crap” or something to that effect (brown-nosing or ass kissiing, depends on depth perception) I did this with my x teacher who I realized was a snake in the grass, but at the time didn’t realize she was a full blown psychopath, I had just seen her UNDERMINE good students to the point of insanity!

Anyway, it worked for that one semester at least, then I changed schools. Ran into two more at the other school, but knew what I had to do and I did it. almost got kicked out twice when i confronted a resident physician who was verbally abusive to a pedi patient in front of other patients and some families. In the end, I actually won that one, because I HAPPENED TO HAVE WITNESSES and BTW knew the head knocker at the hospital we were training in and went DIRECTLY there (I had a better situation than you have, but I survived) Nervous there for a few days though.

I can laugh about it now because immediately it happened they took me into a broom clloset (really!) and threatened to kick me out of schooll if I didn’t shut my mouth. That evening I called the ADM of the hospital (BTW my next door neighbor) and told them what had happened. The NEXT afternoon these two co-teacher Ps called me in their office and told me what a WONDERFUL PATIENT ADVOCATE I WAS and HOW PROUD OF ME THEY WERE! ROTFLMAO 25+ years later. Ha ha. Interestingly enough a few weeks later one of these witches gave a lecture on ETHICS and my class, every one of them, SHUFFLED THEIR FEET VERY LOUDLY THE ENTIRE CLASS TIME as a protest, and she never said a word about it. It was so loud that not a word she said could be heard above the thunder of the shuffling, then stomping feet. ROTFLMAO I was really proud of my class that day and I never did know which other student started the thunder, but they took it up en masse. TOWANDA!!!!


Believe you me, I did not consciously bait this psycho.
I WOULD NEVER do that! I asked an honest question but now i see where it triggered her! so thankyou!
My psychopath father used to say that all the time, ” you get more bees with honey than vinegar” and not once did he EVER give me a drip of any honey. So I guss I’m not a bee.
Anyway thankyou EB, I hear what you are saying. I have other stuff in my life right now (wps)so her going on about my topics in art scares me to death. But if I tell her that she will definitely do it all the time.


Thankyou Everybody for helping me on this. It is a biggie for me. What a year! Do they ever get better?

Ox Drover

Dear Tilly,

Yea, it does get better, you will eventually get your degree and get out of this university crap and get into the business world of crap!!! Instead of taking classes from psychopaths you can work for or with one! LOL Sorry, I couldn’t resist a little dark humor there! (((hugs))))


I’ve been working for psychopaths for years without a degree! At least I will get paid for the abuse!
Oxy! I can’t BELIEVE that you live on the same farm as your mum! that must be hideous for you…no wonder you are freakin out.

Ox Drover


Well, the same farm it is, but the good part is that we live nearly 1/2 mile away and there is a hill and woods between our houses so she can’t see my house even with field glasses.

Nah, actually I ahve about gotten used to it I just avoid that end of the farm unless it is really necessary to go there. Actually I had been gone 3 months before she knew I was gone when I fled, and was home for 3 months before she knew it then. When one of the neighbors (must) have told her because they saw the RV parked out by the air strip she made up an excuse that “she didn’t know I was back” and there was a “strange horse” in the pasture and she wanted to check on it. Like what was she going to do RIDE IT?! She walks with a cane!!! LOL It sort of suprised me cause she got into the yard before I realized it, so it took me by suprise, but I kept my face composed while she was here and told her I “had taken care of the horse.” Then fell silent—such a LOUD SILENCE you have never heard—then she back peddled by lying and left. Have only seenher once, by accident, since then so guess except for that has been approaching two years face to face. Time flies when you are having FUN! LOL I’m not even sure of “time” any more relating to all this unless I get out pencil and paper and jot down the dates.

I’m comfortable and peaceful with NO CONTACT now, but I know there are malice and plots going on behind the scenes, so if I end up having to break NC with her in order to insure she doesn’t give/leave in her will tends if not 100s of thousands of dollars to P-off spring, which he can use to physically attack us, I will do what is necessary. There’ll be no trust or genuine relationship on my part for her though, you can bet your bottom Euro on that!!!

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