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By September 28, 2012 298 Comments Read More →

The Psychopath’s Enablers

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)

Psychopaths do a great deal of damage to their victims. The fact that there are people who are aware of what they are doing and choose to “look the other way” or to “sit on the fence and do nothing” enables the psychopaths to continue to abuse their victims. If the bystanders would stand up and assist the victims, even acknowledge that they are being victimized, the psychopaths might not be quite so successful.

One of the most famous of these enablers who chose to look the other way was a man named Pontius Pilate, the Roman prefect in Jerusalem in AD 33. When Jesus was brought before him by the Jewish leaders, Pilate stated that he found “no fault” in Jesus, yet he gave Jesus over to the mob to be crucified.

To signify that he had no responsibility for the death of Jesus, Pilate had water and a basin brought and he literally “washed his hands” of what the mob intended to do. Yet, he did nothing to stop it.

The dictionary defines the word “minion” as “a servile follower or subordinate of a person in power.” These people also enable the psychopath to continue to victimize their prey by either helping the psychopath, or by simply “looking the other way” as Pilate did. Minions can also be very active participants with the psychopath in the victimization of the prey.

Examples of doing nothing

A famous case of people knowing a horrible crime was being committed and doing nothing was the murder of Kitty Genovese outside her Queens, NY, home in March, 1964. There were 38 witnesses who did nothing—not even call the cops when they heard her scream for nearly a half hour as she was repeatedly stabbed on that fateful night.

A more recent example of people doing nothing is the Penn State case of Jerry Sandusky’s pedophilia. The head coach and the president of the university knew what Sandusky was doing and chose to do nothing, which allowed Sandusky to continue to abuse young boys sexually for more several years.

Of course not all “enabling” of psychopaths are as “serious” as the crucifixion of Christ, the molestation of dozens of young boys, or the brutal murder of a young woman. But the help and support offered by others does enable psychopaths to “get away with” much more than they would otherwise.

Tattling and telling

We teach our kids not to be “tattle tales” and kids learn not to “snitch” on each other. When my kids were little, I tried to teach them the difference between “tattling” and “telling.” “Tattling” was saying “Johnny called me a doo doo,” but that “telling” was saying, “Johnny is playing with matches and setting fire to the curtains.”

I don’t support gossip or tattling in any way, but we must be aware that when we keep our mouths shut and allow evil to flourish, we are contributing to that evil.

My guess is that most of the people reading this on Lovefraud have experienced people being enablers (either actively or passively) to the psychopath that abused them. People either knew the truth and turned their backs, or actively participated in helping the psychopath accomplish their abuse.

Blame the victim

Psychopaths are also usually very good at the “smear campaign.” When the victim is finally trying to break free, they smear the name, sanity and reputation of the victim to everyone who will listen. Unfortunately, too many times the victim is blamed for their own victimization, or labeled crazy or vindictive for trying to protect themselves. “Yeah he hit her, but she was so mouthy, what can you expect?” Or “well if she’d been a better wife, he wouldn’t have needed to cheat.”

The hurt for the victim becomes double or treble when the enabler or fence sitter is someone the victim counted on for support, such as friend, neighbor, co-worker, relative or even the police and the courts. When someone you have counted on to believe you and validate you, instead turns their back on you, in addition to the trauma from the psychopath, the pain may be simply overwhelming, leaving the victim feeling totally abandoned.

No help

I can’t even imagine the horror that Kitty Genovese must have felt that night as she cried out in terror for someone to save her. Yet, I know that many victims of psychopaths have cried out to people that they expected would help them, would support them, only to find a total lack of concern.

The news reports today are filled with stories of people who “knew” and yet did nothing, or worse, helped the abusers. Whistle blowers are still persecuted relentlessly. Those are facts of life.

For what it is worth, though, even if no one else believes us, it doesn’t change the truth or the facts. While we would appreciate support and validation from others, we don’t always get it, even from those we hold most dear. Learning to validate our own knowledge of the truth may be the closest we come to receiving support.

In my own situation, essentially my entire family, immediate and extended, have either actively assisted my psychopathic son Patrick, stood by silently while he tried to harm me, or washed their hands and didn’t even bother to listen. It hurts when those we have depended on fail us, but it is not the end of the world. In most cases, and we can move on. We can learn to validate ourselves and what we know is the truth.

Fortunately, there is Lovefraud, and the many bloggers here who do support and validate us in our healing journey. I hope that each person here will feel free to reach out to others for support when you need it, and that you will reach out to extend validation and support to others who need your support. That’s what it is all about.

God bless.


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298 Comments on "The Psychopath’s Enablers"

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Thanks for this article. I am dealing with these “enablers” ten fold right now. In my situation it is the woman who does safe transfers of my child to the spath. I have called her a “psychopath drama fueler” before and as the weeks go on I am only more sure of this fact.

In the past few weeks, this woman has become an extension of the terror. I have started to look at her the same way I look at the spath because right now she may as well me him. She says she wants to be neutral, yet she continues to pass hurtful information from the spath and terrorizes me with his messages. In return, when I have important information to pass for my sons health, I am told that I need to speak to my attorney because she won’t pass any messages as she wants to “remain neutral”.

She also will say things to scare me like, “I think he will try to kill you in about a year” and then she gets on the stand and says she has no concerns about him.

This all being said, I was an “unwitting” enabler for a year. I had no idea what an spath was and who my ex even was. I defended him when he was accused of child abuse because I didnt believe he actually was capable of doing it. Now, I feel terrible for vouching for his character because now I know he has no moral character.

The supervisor, however, has heard all the ugly and truthful details and she still decides to continue working for the devil to torture me.

I think we’ve all been there. Sadly, but true.
Actually, I hold my enablers responsible for what they failed to do and cut all contact with them. I went NC on them as well. I do not regret it, even if it was my own family and dearest friends. For my own protection I didn’t need anyone to “tell” on me to him nor come with their hurtful remarks. They refused to provide me with evidence that would have made my process easier, shorter and I could have escaped the cog.dis., but they didn’t. They could have admitted the truth so I wouldn’t have had to live in disbelief and feel like a crazy person of all my suspicions for so long. Now, thanks to LF I believe in my self, what my intuition was telling me. Maybe he didn’t cheat on me that particularly time, but it doesn’t change who he is either way. When all comes down to it, I’m better without, them as well as him.

This is a very touchy subject for me now. I have been angered beyond any anger I have experienced with the attitudes of my own family, some “friends?”, courts, court facilitators, child supposed advocates and those minions along with his family and religious phonies. It was an all out war waged against a mother and daughter who were just minding their own business living a decent life, giving back to our community for it all to turn on us in the name of “prison release programs and their false abililty to change a psychopath” and DNA held in higher regard than child safety or a woman and a child living a law abiding life.

What a rude awakening I received. I have learned so much researching “how” this could happen to us and finding several moms across the country losing custody of their children to a card carrying felon, disordered father. It appeared the more professional and self sufficient the mother was the harder they fought her in court and falsely labelled her to tear her apart in the judges eyes to get the children away from her. There is no low too low for a lawyer to win. I was said to have threatened to kill my daughter, abort my daughter and said to attempted suicide and they need no evidence. Family court is very arbitrary. I really believe this is due to all the federal funding that is going into the false beliefs that “manhood” class (that is what they are really callled! Manhood 1 and 2!!!)or “domestic violence”, “fathers count” (yes and there’s a 6 week class to change a pedophile into a non-deviate and give him his certification leaving nobody allowed to bring it up) class and many other stomach churning classes with certification of completion at the end make that disordered person better. Until they’re not. They are hiding this at every turn. They are blaming all the increase in adolescent suicide on bullying and the economy. The parents who go missing during court ordered child exchanges, or are just plain murdered and the substantiated abuse accounts that CPS is ignoring due to nobody wanting to admit THEIR CLASS DIDN’T help the psychopath grow a heart or conscience and he beat the kids or molested or killed them but the ultimate fence riders shove that info under the rug as many might be out of a job for their failed federal funded teachings. (this literally is in the billions of dollars from taxes!)

I know it’s an ugly subject. I know I sound very angry. I am. I don’t want to know all I have learned about the billions being spent on the fraudulent teachings of these dangerous people. I am sure I will digest it over time and realize which things I can change and when I have to put it down for the sake of our healing as we just got somewhat free of the clutches of the courts. I just don’t know where I am supposed to go with all that I have learned. It’s a lot. I feel like I was put here to do something with it as I understand it and naturally follow the process. When caught in a whole system of enablers trying to protect your child and their inaction or facilitation helping the psychopath to gain control over your lives, it is hard to swallow. It affected me much more than the previous friends, family and others who didn’t want to get involved or covered for the sicko or plain ol’ had an attitude like “hey don’t make your problems mine”. This seems to be an epidemic in our country. People walking around with blinders on. Taking no responsibility for their part.

I thank you for this topic and I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my rant. I am grateful to get it out and I want people to KNOW what is going on here.

His family are fundamentalist christians from Missouri who believe he was “broken on the rock” (would that be a grey one?:) as he came from prison touting the “word”, carrying his bible and his 12 step book and he managed to gain employment at 4 times any pay he ever made as everyone wanted to helpt this father “get his daughter away from the mother who has alienated that child and in hopes he doesn’t go on in life to commit more crimes”…….WTH? There was a paper trail of evidence to discount every lie but nobody cared to look at it. He went to all the classes in prison he could.

My primal screams for help when I saw the motions and petitons full of lies made me know he had not changed. He filed 3 to 5 per week from his prison cell. “He just wants to be in his daughters life”. Um NO that’s not what he wants.
Destruction is what he wants. With all that support and polishing of his skills, the psychopath is seeping through and taking him down. He’s messing up. But not without completely wrecking our lives first.

Jeez, Yes this is all we have at times. Our own knowledge of the truth must stay in the forefront. If that doesn’t work or you start doubting yourself, thankfully there are places like lovefraud who believe the carniage these sub humans leave in their wake and the internet has many validating websites. It’s bone chilling when I stumble upon sites where actual psycho/sociopaths post.

Wew!

Dear Eralyn,

I hear the pain, the fear and the rage in your post and I am so sorry that you are fighting this PROFESSIONAL ENABLER NET WORK of people who while they may “mean well” are actually ENABLING the psychopath to put on the “sheep’s clothing” and continue their evil.

Those “doo gooders” who think that all a psychopath needs is teaching about how to be a good soul and they will respond by becoming good souls are DELUSIONAL –but sometimes they get government grants to teach those “classes” FRUSTRATING!

C-queen, I think your “neutral” person is getting off on the DRAMA of the entire situation….saying that kind of thing to scare you, then turning around and saying that she can’t take any information to Luc, she is creating and enjoying drama in my opinion.

I suggest that you cut her drama rama off at the knees and REFUSE TO LISTEN to any of her “reports” If you have something too say to Luc about the Prince’s health or whatever, give the drama queen a copy of the WRITTEN information you are passing on to Luc (and of course keep a copy for yourself) Make sure that the written information says something like Prince’s health seems to be good and stable rigth now, he hasn’t had a fever since June 10th, if he should start to run a fever of 101 or more , take him immediately to St. John’s hospital ER on Segway street and tell them that Dr. Spock is his primary doctor 555-1212, and of course you can always reach me on my cell at 1-800-555-1213 enjoy your day together, Queenie

Sunflower,
I know that cutting off so many people from our lives is difficult, but if those people do not ADD to our happiness and peace then we do not need them is my opinion.
I had a small family to start with, and right now it is just me and my adopted son with me essentially being NC or close to it with all my close family and very distant with my extended family (I will speak to them if I run into them in Wal Mart in a friendly way but that is all…no real communication)

Many friends have been let to “drift away” and that is okay….a couple of others I have purposely gone HARD NC with them, total NC with them. That’s okay too.

The few close friends and one son I have that are “with me” and “get it” those are the people I really treasure. Those who sat idly by while I was attacked, or even participated in the attack, or who KNEW ABOUT THE ATTACK and did NOTHING. Why do I need those people in my life?

Yes, thank you Ox Drover for your input. I really thought twice about that lengthy post and not putting that comment there but I hoped that some of the moms here who have gone through the family courts could gain some knowledge or validation that it is a system.

I always commend you for your strength with your son. I know how it is when family chooses to put their heads in the sand rather than call a duck a duck. My spaths mother was my voice of reason years ago when I had the baby but after all those above classes, she believed his prison cell claims of God?!. It broke my heart even more. She didn’t want to hear he had not changed. They even considered filing for “grandparents rights”. I have never withheld her granddaughter! We know how believable the spath can be. I know she’s gonna owe me an apology but it won’t be until he’s harmed someone undeniably, inexcusably probably criminally, unfortunately.

I hope you didn’t feel like I hijacked your post.

Ox Drover, yes..you are very correct. She is feeding off of the drama. I believe that no matter how much she complains about “being in the middle”…she seems to enjoy “putting herself in the middle” when it comes to saying something that is going to evoke a reaction.

When my mom dropped baby boy off the other day, this woman had the nerve to tell her that both she and my entire family (including my aunts, uncles, etc) needed to stay away from the mall for Luc’s safety. When I heard that, I wanted to slap her silly and say, “listen woman….he doesn’t need to be afraid of any of us. People don’t violently die around my family. That sort of thing is Luc’s experience NOT ours.” I can’t tell everyone I know not to go to the mall just because Luc is there with my son. Seriously? None of us want to be there…but that is not the point…

Dear Eralyn, you didn’t hijack the thread at all. that is what this blog is for is to exchange information and support!

People who “mean well” and want to believe that “there is good down deep in everyone” and that “everyone deserves a second chance” don’t have any idea what evil really exists out there and they don’t WANT to believe that there IS such EVIL because it would be WAY TOO SCARY for them to admit that there is that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, their “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” way of looking at things ALLOWS the EVIL to CONTINUE!

..

Dear Sunflower,

It isn’t easy to let go of the hurt of the betrayal of those people that you thought were friends.

The truth is though that YOU were their friend, but they were not YOUR friend, because a FRIEND does not treat others the way they treated you “Sorry about your rape, now can you come help me move apartments” LOL ROTFLMAO That is NOT friendship, that is not caring. That is USING.

Not all my “friends” and “family” that turned their backs on me, or didn’t believe me were or are psychopaths themselves, but it is just easier for people to think that “I don’t want to get in the middle of that” or to put themselves out and take a stand.

I also realized that other friendships were not “healthy” friendships. Even my Best friend of 30 years wasn’t a healthy friendship and she had been there for me many times, and vice versa, but you know, I realized that our relationship had changed and it was NO LONGER HEALTHY. So I ended it about 2 years ago. I still have fond memories of those previous 30 years, and I have no “hard feelings” toward her, it is just that it is time that I move on and since she is unable to respect my new boundaries, then it’s time for the relationship to be put to rest.

She isn’t a mean person, just that things have changed. Sometimes I miss what used to be, but I must accept what IS NOW.

Then there are others, like my son C. I love him very much. Always will I guess, but he let me down during the “summer of chaos” and actively sided with the psychopaths who he knew were trying to drive me out of my home (and the one he didn’t know who was trying to kill me, and eventually tried to kill him)

I gave C “another chance” but the BOUNDARY (the rule if you will) was NO lies of ANY kind about any thing So, for a while I thought he had changed and I could trust him, and I was starting to trust him again, and danged if he didn’t break his agreement about living here and then lie about it.

It broke my heart to tell him that he had to leave here (I gave him 30 days to do so) and he even lied about that, told his boss and co workers that I had thrown him out in the middle of the night. LOL So I am NC with son C except we work together to keep son Patrick in prison.

Other “friends” and family that I saw did not do anything to help me when they KNEW I was in danger, those people I just pass on by, say high if I meet them in the store in town, or wave if we pass each other on the road, but they are not IN my life, not IN my “circle of trust and intimacy.”

My “circle of trust and intimacy” is very small, and contains only my adopted son and a few very close friends that I know I can count on, who DO believe what I say…and would be here if I called during the middle of the night and said “COME NOW” and hung up!)

Lots of people seem to think that “most everyone esle” has tons of friends, hundreds of friends, but the reality is that most people have only in their life times 2 or 3 GOOD friends and the rest are just “people we know” but not TRUE FRIENDS.

So if you have one or two TRUE friends that would come when you called, mortgage their house for you, spend the night at the hospital, or arrange for your burial, then you are fortunate indeed.

Oxy, great topic for an article. Thanks for writing it. You know how I feel about fence sitters. They are just spaths without balls. Sitting on the fence gives them a great view of the drama and a quick exit when the shit hits the fan.

Not all people who SAY they believe there is good deep down in everyone, actually believe it. Some are spaths and that is a mask. I just met one not long ago. He was a 19 year old kid, I was talkiing to on the phone and he said, “People who hurt other people usually are unaware that what they are doing is hurtful.” I told him he was naive if he believed that and that he would learn differently one day. At the time, I had no reason to believe he was anything other than a confused kid. Later, I found out he is a full-blown spath and he was practicing his mask when he said that.

Another reason I despise fence sitters is because most spaths will not attack by themselves. They always set up an audience of supporters to back them up and also to share the blame. It makes them appear less evil if “everybody is doing it too.” This is because it’s hard for normal people to believe that we are surrounded by spaths, so instead we change the definition of “normal” to include envy and malice and schadenfraude.

Sky, your discussions with me about “fence sitters” and enablers was what actually brought about this article.

Thhe two kinds of people who allow the psychopaths to get by with their game.

Those who KNOW and do nothing, like Pilate. He didn’t ACTIVELY help the Jews, he just KNEW Jesus was innocent, but he ALLOWED the mob to rule when he COULD have stopped them.

Then there are the ACTIVE enablers who participate with the psychopath in the abuse of the victim. The MINIONS who ware the co-conspiritors with the psychopaths, who give the psychopath aid and help in accomplishing the Evil. They are the ones who “hold the door open” for the psychopath, or who “drive the get away car” or “fence the loot” or Lie on the witness stand.

Sometimes these active enablers (the minions) are also psychopaths themselves and sometimes they are actually people who have just been conned by the psychopath with a pity ploy into thinking that the victim is in need of punishment.

Whatever the reason the minion or the fence sitter participates, it is necessary for the psychopath to have these in order to succeed in many cases.

Oxy,
yes there are some minions who are duped. I call those “The true believers”. Some of the true believers are good-hearted dupes, others are evil spaths who just aren’t very smart.

When the ex-spath was trying to convince everyone that homeland security was after him, he had his friend H believing it was true. He told H to hold the tracking device and not to give it to anyone no matter what. Then if Spath called him, he was to bring only part of it so that Spath would not lose the evidence. Of course he knew H has no balls and H would bring the entire device if homeland security requested it. H is the true believer who would then testify to the veracity of Spath’s story that homeland security REALLY WAS AFTER HIM. H is also a spath but he isn’t good at lying so he has to be made into a duped minion. H is fed information because Spath knows he can’t keep anything to himself. Then H goes around gossiping and telling the stories that Spath wants told. H paints the Spath as larger than life and that is how the other minions see him.

For myself, I used to be a duped minion. But I was not just a duped minion to my own spath but also to any spath, because I didn’t know that people with black holes for hearts existed. So whenever I saw people doing evil, I just thought they were confused or misguided. Even the worst of them, I believed that they had some good in them. And I forgave over and over again.

It is so good to have open eyes, even if there is so much ugliness to see.

Sunflower,
I am sorry you were raped and feeling alone. It’s good that you are reeavaluating and asking here what people think about it? Were you expecting too much from a friend or family member? NO. Is it something you would do for another? Yes. I imagine. My mother did a real number on me with her constant exasperated “you expect too much from people”. A total set up to forgive every single person who does something unacceptable. The list of things I could name that occurred in the future is awful! No true friend or family member worth having would be guilty of this behavior. Unfortunately it was a very painful lesson. I was much like Skyler calls the duped minion and it took a long time to get through my thick head what the reality was. I had a broken picker. In all areas of my life. For many reasons. So you have to clean house. Or pull the weeds or however you can envision it to make room for the new. I have recently let go of many friends due to the drama in my life and the attitudes and inability to even get it. People are all different. Skyler and OxDrover go into the spaths and their co”hurts” above.

The first thing is boundaries. What is a dealbreaker to you? Won’t be tollerated period. Then you should probably do some red flag assessments and just know that in the big scheme of things people will be different and react differently on day to day stuff and those are things I roll with. I don’t mind disagreeing with a friend about an opinion or something they do that I would not do or like but if they hurt other people doing it, we will have problems.

These are all lessons and they are no fun when you get a big one but when you look back on it, you’ll probably be thankful you learned and won’t have to do that again. I just read what you wrote about your mom and her drunken lucky to be alive hubby. Those are the type of things that confuse people. (your moms reaction/words) That’s why you are learning. She didn’t teach you properly there. The message you’d let your drunken hubby freeze to death AND share it with your daughter is disturbing. You will be better for this lesson. You are worth loving, you are worth being treated right. I tell my daughter this all the time, “Nobody on this earth deserves to be happier than you” and that goes for you too! It’s true! Unfortunately some of us didn’t get that memo. My daughter knows what I mean as I have ellaborated on it. Generally we are worthy and definitely as worthy as the next person.

Talk about the smear campaign, since Den didn’t want his friends to know about me and I was never included he had started the “smear campaign” when he started seeing me again 2 years prior. Since we lived in different towns it was pretty easy for him to accomplish. I was already discredited long before I ever approached any of them (trying to get the truth). They are all like a bunch of lemmings. He likes to target vet techs and animal lovers (of which I am). I assume it is because he knows we are very caring. Then he portrayed me as cruel to animals. They all believe him and none of them has ever met me.

I am convinced there is some kind of requirement in the family courts system where all members on all levels must have fence riding mastered or it is a field/industry that calls these people to it………….They enable. It is “civil” court not criminal and it seems to be a large part of the problem. Different rules of law and evidence.

Eralyn, thank you so much, means alot to me. In a strange way, I’m thankfull I met my last spath. Not that I would want to go thru it again, I’d even avoid all of it if I could turn back time, but it really was rock bottom for me. I would not have opened my eyes at all if I didn’t crash last year. At least I feel lucky I got a new opportunity to live life as I want it. Freedom to choose, freedom to live and all that comes with it. Healing is a journey, as well as life, but at least I’m lucky enough to be a part of it. Do you know what I did yesterday? A bumblebee landed on my doorstep, exhausted, ready to die. I went inside, found a spoon and some honey, and I fed it. Just sat there, watching it eat. And you know what? It was the most beautiful creature I’ve ever seen. It survived and flew away, Just so beautiful this heavenly creature. I feel lucky I could see its beauty. To me that is life. Lol, maybe I’m a bit strange, go figure…. 😉

Kmillercats,
They target anything or anyone you care about. It makes sense to me animal lovers could be targetted. Churches, children, sick or dying relatives, anything you FEEL FOR as they CAN’T.

I am sorry to hear you are the target of a smear campaign. It’s hard to deal with.

Sunflower,

The bumblee story goes with your name. 🙂 I would kinda expect that story from you.

You aren’t strange. You are appreciating the small things in life. (literally) Nature is very healing to me. I totally get it. Don’t ever lose that. But wasps are a different thing. I think I’d set a boundary right there……..:) Still learning myself..

Bumble bee bumble bee bumble bee. lol

LOL, feels good to be able to laugh again 😉

skylar

I like the term “true believers who are “good hearted dupes” and spaths who are not very smart. I am sure after having a brief conversation with his friends they are a mixture.

Great post! I often blame myself because in the beginning, I fought hard. I outed him every chance I got to protect others once I found out what he was doing. But still, I didnt leave him. I just kept rationalizing that it was his drug addiction and if he could just get sober. I watched a mother figure do that growing up. She did everything for my stepfather. He is a bad alcoholic. She fought hard, even did all the working so he could get better, but it never happened..

At some point in the relationship with my ex, I started to see he was like that even when he seemed sober. I became confused and sooooooooo tired from the constant chaos that I became ill. I just went to sleep. I turned everything inward instead. I began to question myself. I stopped fighting and outing him. I started telling myself if only I could become a better wife, if only I pray more, if only I immerse myself completely in Jesus, then he would change, but he never did.

It was as if I became blind to all of his schemes. He used me in my drained state to become more subtle. I was so weak and exhausted that I couldnt fight anymore and I just kept going downhill physically. He even used Jesus against me. He had me completely isolated and because he got me to believe that he was a CIA agent, I was paralyzed in fear.

And then one day, I cried out to God and He showed me just how much He truly loved me. It was a flood of His love that I felt that day. He showed me in His Word that my ex was an unbeliever, that he had tricked me, and I saw clear instructions on how to deal with him. I saw clearly that I had already done all that God asked of me, that I was now supposed to cut him off. Then, as clear as day, by the power of the Holy Spirit, I heard, “you are my daughter, a daughter of the most high king. Do not be afraid for I am with you. I will give you an escape. Now MOVE!!!!!!!!”

And I did. I have never looked back. For an entire year I was spiritually broken, but I am so blessed that Jesus sees my heart and He very slowly and gently met me where I was at. He knew how hurt I was and waited soooo patiently, sooooo faithfully. Now for the first time in my life, I am learning how to truly trust Him. He uses my experience for His glory almost every day and that is my motivation now.

I finally understand that part of my refusal to leave was a result of not wanting to judge righteously. You will know them by their fruits. An unbeliever in Scripture is clearly defined as those who have heard the gospel and reject God, and revel in evil. It doesnt matter. From now on, when I see that bad fruit in anyone, you know that specific kind that we have come to know, i will not walk, i will run from them and pray from a distance.

I think some fencesitters are very gullible and ignorant. Most people say: ” It will never happen to ME so I don’t worry about it.” Truth is, it can happen to anybody and/or it IS happening to them, they just don’t know it yet.

Thanks Eralyn

Stronger,

You are sooooo RIGHT! Those that have a REPROBATE MIND are the ones who KNOW right from wrong but REJECT right. They will not change, even God gives up on them.

The old saying goes though, “God helps those who help themselves” and we are told to know them by their fruits and if theya re ROTTEN to treat them like a heathen, to not even eat with them.

Evil companions corrupt good morals and if we hang around bad people we start to take on their moral compass.

Getting AWAY from them is the best way to handle them.

God help those who have to “co-parent” with them.

This post is so true and applies to all people who do wrong not just psychopaths. By refusing to acknowledge wring doing or by not validating the victims concerns you are an enabled. In my case the closest people to me were my sociopaths family and although they know he has a problem with intimate relationships and lying and manipulating the fail to acknowledge the information when I told them I figured it out. Sociopathy irfan explains why he is so intelligent but a major underachiever but no one will listen. I love his family like I live my own they are really good people so I just had to come to a realization that the truth will eventually come out and even if it doesn’t God knows. I have to remain silent to protect my relationships with his family, it’s saddening but I want to have as many good relationships as I can with his family for my daughters sake, so all I can do is pray.

Wow just noticed all the typos in my reply lol dang iPhone spellcheck

My pain, having to remain silent so oyou can have a “good relationship” with his family does not sound to me like a very GOOD relationship.

Enablers of psychopaths and other dysfunctional people REQUIRE that we remain silent about the bad deeds done by the psychopath in order to “keep the peace” but that is PEACE AT “ANY” PRICE, only YOU pay the price, not the person who is doing the bad deeds.

When we stand up and say NO MORE ABUSE they will resent it, they will try to get us to sit down and shut up so that the “status quo” will be maintained, but that status quo is ABUSE without consequences.

Is that what you want for your daughters? “Peace” with people who will watch while someone does bad things and not do anything about it?

I strongly suggest that you check the priorities, Mypain,, and see what is the most important, keeping “peace” with these enablers or protecting yourself and your daughters

I was raised to “keep the peace” but I found out the hard way that the PRICE IS TOO HIGH, and especially when you realize that there IS NO PEACE LIKE THIS.

Somehow I need to understand “fruits” better. All the christians involved in our case seem to be mistaking the words, you know a man by his fruits, as assets. Through his con, he has somehow acquired a job making 4 + times more money than he has ever made in his life. This is seeming to be Gods miracle and “fruit”. His fruits (assets)look a lot better than mine right now but I know it’s all too bizarre to be legit. We’re talking about a man with no high school diploma, 9 felonies in our county alone, 7 of them new and honest hard working people can’t even find employment so it must be a miracle from God. ???

So I look a bit crazy while attempting to explain how this is all happening. He’s on probation too! I’m wondering about him being a snitch too. None of it makes sense from a law abiding citizens mind knowing all that I know about this guy. So are fruits as vague as it sounds or do others just know what that means and I don’t seem to get it?

Also Ox D, you are exactly right regarding MyPain. That post concerned me deeply as I heard the same thing you reference in your response. MyPain you must really think about what Ox is saying to you as she has vast knowledge on the subject and how these things can play out. There is a child involved who we like to think needs family but keeping secrets or peace as you say just to keep family is probably what Sanduskys wife said to herself or some version of it…………… Please think about the big picture and ask questions if you need help….

Eralyn,

The most “beautiful” fruit sometimes has ROTTEN CORES, the worm within the apple as it were.

External views of “fruit” or “success” is not always accurate.

Look at how many famous and rich business, media and sports stars are drugged out and miserable….yet on the outside they appear to be very successful.

Jesus had not a place to lay his head and He was hung on a cross between two thieves….yet who was the “success”? Who had the best “fruit?”

Eralyn,
I think “fruits” are those things that really matter. Money isn’t fruit. I think that the fruit a tree bears is what it gives to the world. So the fruit we bear is what we bring to the world. Money is what the world gives us.

Unfortunately, many of us bore bad fruit too because we are part of a disordered family and it is in our DNA. In my case I didn’t have kids at all. But there are other things we can bring to the world. Our friendship, our knowledge, and our compassion for others can also be shared.

My Pain, I can’t agree with Oxy more strongly than I do. Here at LF, I’ve learned that you need to make hard choices sometimes and give up what you wish you could keep. Your ex-spath came from that family. He is the fruit and they are the tree. It seems to me that you can do better than that. They enable him and they don’t sound healthy for your daughter to be around.

Ox Drover,

This post is excellent! The most profound statement you wrote, I believe, is; “Learning to validate our own knowledge of the truth may be the closest we come to receiving support”. So true, and one of THEE most important and life changing parts of our healing and moving forward on our paths. The fact that we had to rely on our own knowledge of the truth, as being our support system, at first was a difficult thing to have to come to terms with, but now, I think it forced us to dig deep within ourselves for sheer survival, so much so that, in the process of learning and developing this self reliance, we develop incredible strength within, that we wind up taking with us, on the rest of our life’s journey. This post of yours is one of much validation for me, personally. Thank you for sharing it. Much love, ~Shane

You’re welcome, Shane! I think it is by validating each other and supporting each other here we can get what we can’t get from those “real life” people who are fence sitters (at best) or minions of the psychopaths who afflict us.

So true, Ox D. I have noticed so much healing in myself, since finding this place, and reading all of the things that are expressed by the incredibly insightful survivors, here. The validation has speeded up the recovery process for me, in such a profound way. The fence sitters and minions to me, are just as wretched as the P’s. Except for the ones who are in a state of deep cog dis, and I am sure that the sister of the P that inflicted me, is a victim who is unaware of the damage that she is doing, by giving brother advice on how to conduct himself in particular situations. Correct me if I am wrong, however. : )

Sunflower,
what a horrific story about your mother. I’m so sorry you experienced that.

You said that your ex-spath admitted to not liking to get his hands dirty. My ex-spath admitted in a letter to God that he likes to convince other people to do evil. He didn’t say that it was because he doesn’t like to get his hands dirty, he just likes to tempt other people to do evil. I’m sure that there are many benefits to getting other people to do evil: you can blackmail them later, they do your dirty work for you, they protect you later because they don’t want to be implicated…etc… but my ex-spath KNEW that he just LIKED it.
All the other reasons were fringe benefits.

I believe that the description of Lucifer as he is depicted in the bible, is just a depiction of spaths in general. I think that the writers understood that much of the “fluff” around character disorders is just a distraction from their pure nature. They are filled with shame and envy. What their excuse for tempting others to do evil is, is irrelevant. We only need to know what they do, not why they believe they do it.

Skylar, well, the more I learn, the more I also remember about my past and other issues with my mom. I was her enabler. I feel quilty to admitt it, but I was. Totally under her control. I did stand up to her a number of times and now she’s out of my life. I can somewhat relate and excuse enablers, but to another extent not. I was born and raised to serve my mother, a hard thing for a child to understand and break free of. My mom is still in panic about me and still play tricks to make me feel shameful and guilty, but I’m not falling for it.

This article and all the posts are just amazing and coming at the PERFECT time for me. So much I want to say but I’m still learning how to talk about my life under the new paradigm of “survivor of sociopaths” rather than “inadequate failure.”

One huge change I made soon after finding LF was to follow Oxy’s advice and take my relationships off “life support.” Let go of the people who required huge amounts of energy and gave nothing back. So many people dropped off my radar screen after that and after a weird adjustment phase, I felt a million percent better. Now I’m getting it that fence sitters are also not good for me and I’ll be working on that one.

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how I can help with spreading the word about sociopaths and how to become aware of red flags and how to work through horrendous experiences at their hands and their minions. I think this site is vitally important for sharing information and sharing is what I can do. Whenever I have the opportunity, I can share what I’ve learned, what happened to me, what the resources for learning are. So I have a better direction now and I really appreciate Skylar’s observation that we can bring to the table friendship, knowledge and compassion. I have no idea how to teach, but I can share.

I also really appreciate the post from Stronger about trying to find your way back to God. I have no idea how to describe how hard it was to choose God first and let go of all the shiny people with their righteous titles who were convinced you had to get to God through them. Talk about sparkly facades…..and I was raised in the thick of sparkly abusers. I finally admitted that I was totally exhausted and confused and I prayed that God would guide me in a way that even I could understand. I could not understand therapy, books or friends, so I needed very clear, very simple baby steps. And here I am – with the clear answers I asked for. Thank you, thank you, thank you God and everyone here.

I think it’s so important that we continue sharing all we learn, all we have experienced, all we contribute to enlarging the awareness. So sorry for all the darkness we have endured and continue to fight. Thank you for being here.

I believe relying on your own knowledge of truth has been a real learning curve for me due to the games played with me while growing up. Keeping family secrets yet being a truth seeker and teller.
What is helping me here on this site is hearing all the recovery going on. People getting info they need and actually hearing how it affects their lives. Hearing someone else “get it” they need to be their own support of their own knowledge of truth, explains why my therapist years ago kept saying “define your own reality” until I wanted to sock him in the eye. (lol) I think it took a year and a half before I understood why he kept saying that! It had a lot to do with everyone messing with me, gaslighting and lying and I was just confused, hurt and wondering what, why and blah. It’s enlightening to hear others embracing being their own knowledge of truth when it’s something you’ve had a difficult time embracing.

Very healing for me!!! Thank you…………….

Yes, I was fooled by fruit too. Lets look at what the Bible says about fruit.

Galatians 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Titus 3:14 14 And let our’s also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

In other words, fruits are actions. Its not the stuff we have, its the stuff we do. There are examples of bearing good fruit and bad fruit all over the place in Scripture and we can see that it is an action. Its not the material things we possess.

Stronger, LOVE IS ALSO AN ACTION VERB, NOT AN EMOTION….it is how we ACT and how we treat others. We “love” and “respect” others by how we treat them.

I agree that “fruits” are also ACTIONS…they are the way we treat others, not STUFF that we have. Good for you to point this out, thank you.

The Bible is filled with good advice on how to live a good, peaceful and happy life, no matter what your beliefs are. There are also examples there of people like Pilot who at on the fence and ALLOWED evil that they could have stopped…as well as people who KNEW right from wrong, but did wrong anyway. (Judas for example)

Jesus, unlike how many people seem to pain him was a man of ACTION. He fought evil, like when he drove out the money changes from the Temple. He also stood up for people, such as the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned. He showed compassion for her, and saw that the very men who were about to stone her were also all guilty of adultery themselves. When He asked them “he who is without sin, throw the first stone” none of them had the gall to do so, and they slunk away, leaving the poor woman alone with Jesus.

None of us are “without sin” because we all make mistakes and do things we know are wrong, but the difference between us and the psychopaths is that we have a conscience and we are able to have REMORSE and change our ways in the future.

Fence sitters are not all psychopaths, but many times they are morally unsure, cowards, whatever name you want to put on them, but they have no place in our lives. We must bear ACTIVE FRUIT in order to live in a healthy manner.

I think we’re forgetting some important facts here. Remember the spaths ability to manipulate everyone around them? I know for a fact they manipulate also their minions and the fencesitters, isn’t that what the smear campain is all about? Remember how our spaths pushed our borders step by step into doing things we didn’t want og making us into something we didn’t recognize? I think a spath will do this to their minions as well. I am not making excuses for the minions, they must also be responsible for their own lives and what they do. I’m just saying it’s all a masterpiece by the spath.

,

Sunflower,

You have a very valid point. My own egg donor who is a very active minion in supporting my son, Patrick, so that he has resources (money) in prison to live better, an attorney to fight for his release on parole, etc. is convinced that he has “found Jezzzzus” and her only desire in life is to live long enough to see him get out of prison is his very active minion.

By doing what she is doing she is putting my life more at risk…shhe is of course deluded that he loves her, and deluded that he has “found Jezzzus” because it fits in with her GREAT DESIRE that her beloved grandson isn’t a monster. However, she is also trained from childhood that above all else, THE FAMILY BAD BOY MUST BE PROTECTED FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS BEHAVIOR. Her brother, My uncle Monster was a violent psychopath who abused women (he didn’t have the guts to face a man, or even a woman who would stand up to him) In addition, my egg donor’s own mother and her grandmother before her also were trained by childhood to protect the psychopath in the family.

However, does that make her “innocent” in doing this?She KNOWS for a fact that my son is a stone cold killer, she knows for a fact he sent his buddy to kill me, she knows for a fact that Patrick is a liar. Yet she continues in this vein. Does this aleviate her complicity in what she is doiing? I think not. She has made choices and she has ignored EVIDENCE…

If my egg donor had lived in Nazi Germany, I can see her turning over the Jews hidden in her barn with a clear conscience.

I realize that’s a pretty harsh thing to say, but while there is a combination of “training” in what we do, “training” in what we recognize as right and wrong, she knows what she is doing is wrong, yet she will not let go of it. She twists the Bible to validate her stance she wants to take.

Other minions I have known are actually deluded by the charm of the psychopaths…I was one of those myself at various times, but there were other times I fought against my son. I turned him in for stealing my car to haul the look he took from the business of our friends that he robbed. He hates me to this day for doing that. The young woman he murdered had turned him in to the law for a credit card scam he (and she) were involved in when it became apparent they were going to be caught…so he killed her.

My son Clay was a spineless fence sitter,

.

Fruit is a noun. The results of action. Even though without action there is no fruit. The fruit of our labor, thoughts, actions etc.

“Cause and effect, means and ends, seed and fruit cannot be severed; for the effect already blooms in the cause, the end preexists in the means, the fruit in the seed” Ralph Waldo Emerson

Galatians 5:22-26

King James Version (KJV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

If we live in the Spirit and walk in the Spirit….. Be in the Spirit then the end results [fruit] of this is a life of: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance.

It is correct that love as in how we treat or act toward one another is a verb. Without the appropriate action there is no love. In these verses it is both a noun – Gods Love would be upon us – Gods actions toward us would be 1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous;…and a verb – we would act from love – our actions toward others.

I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the FRUIT OF HIS DOING. Jeremiah 17:10 [e.a.]

The problem is in these two factors – words that a person uses do not always match their action. And the meaning we put on someones action is not the meaning that another would put on that same action. It’s one of the reasons that we tend to gravitate to those with similar background, experiences etc. We have a common understanding and response to the events in life. Making inter action simpler. While this understanding problem can cause lots of trouble in our lives. As in, the spath saying they love you while beating the crap out of you. The two don’t match up. Being aware of this and dealing with it wisely[asking the right questions etc.] then many of these things can be corrected. This problem is like mistakes they will happen and it’s how we handle the mistakes that says it all.

Even though we can break these things down to parts so that we can understand the process. It is a process. Emerson said it well that one can not exist without the other. Actions begets results which leads to more actions, the fruit is in the seed, which creates more seed. And if the seed is treated with the right action will result in more fruit. Happiness is a loop so too is PTSD. But Fruit by it’s self is a noun.

My 2 Cents

T

OxD, thanks so much for this article and discussion – I always seem to read what I “need” to at the most opportune times.

I posted this, before, but I have no use for fence-sitters, on any level. Of course, I am placed in positions where I must interact with them, but I keep it on a very superficial level. I no longer make attempts to “explain” or “defend” myself – it’s an exercise in futility and these people feed on the drama/trauma, so far as I’ve been able to see.

So, how can I safely interact with these types of people? I practice the “grey rock” technique and give them nothing of myself. I view them as cardboard cutouts that resemble a human form and cause noises to come out of their facial orafice. If the noises are in direct relation to something that involves my job, I hear the words in the noises. If not, the noise is just that: noise.

I spent an enormous amount of time and energy “explaining” and “defending” myself throughout my lifetime, and I’m not going to do that, anymore. Every attempt to describe spath behaviors and their consequences resulted in making me – the victim – look precisely like the vindictive, bitter, and vengeful nutbag that I had been described to be by the exspath. SO, any inquiries about my situation are met with a very sharp, “Why would you even need to ask that?”

Nope…..no use for fence-sitters and enablers. I have too much work to do to survive and recover to spend on minions and their lust for drama/trauma.

Once again, thank you SO much for posting what I need, WHEN I need it!

Brightest blessings

@Oxy,
“Evil companions corrupt good morals and if we hang around bad people we start to take on their moral compass.”

You speak wise words indeed.

We were discussing the “Three (or four) Wise Monkeys” on another thread the other day. Somehow, when their images started being traded between the Orient and the Occident, their message got changed. Now, in Western societies, they seem to mean “Don’t get involved”, and “Just let evil happen and don’t say anything”. They’ve become the perfect psychopath enablers talismans. 🙁

But their orignal meaning (from the old Confuscious sayings) was exactly the opposite, and matched exactly what you said above: Don’t participate in evil doings, by word, sight, hearing or deed.

“See no evil” was originally more like “Don’t look at, or associate yourself with, evil things”.

“Hear no evil” was originally more like “Don’t listen to evil stories”.

“Speak no evil” was originally more like “Don’t gossip”.

There is a fourth monkey, who seems to have dissappeared in the Occidental (and also most Japanese) culture, represented by a monkey with his arms folded over his chest or stomach, which is “Do no evil”. I think if that one hadn’t been somehow ommitted from the modern statues we may have retained the original meanings. “Do no evil” is pretty clear, and hard to mistranslate.

Another great article. Thanks to you and Skylar for bringing this to everyone’s attention. I think it’s THE secret to turning this stuff around.

I think there might just be a series of articles waiting to be written on this topic, so I hope either of the two of you will consider writing them.

Another article I’d love to see would be exposing the seeming ‘psychopath’s minion’, who turns out to actually be the master psychopath: what to be wary of, what the red flags are, how much danger they represent, etc…

We often make the same mistakes here on LF that most of the psychopathy researchers make: we concentrate on the criminal/unsuccessful/small-fish psychopaths, and forget the ‘successful’ types in business and politics, who remain hidden from view (and prosecution). The most successful psychopaths, as we’ve discussed before, never get their own hands dirty and have always set up a ‘fall guy’. It’s usually (almost always from what I’ve seen) the ‘fall-guy’ who gets labelled as the psychopath, when the true psychopath (who just happens to be around but in the background for most of the drama) is viewed as either a minion, or even a peripheral victim. In all the psychopathy research I’ve seen thus far, we never seem to identify or warn about those ‘master’ psychopaths who remain hidden behind the scenes and look like minions, but are actually the most dangerous and are pulling the strings. We seem to recognize the dynamic when it comes to things like Mafiosa bosses, but rarely seem to recognize it when it comes to politics and business.

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