By | November 30, 2017 38 Comments

To a sociopath, children are simply bait and leverage

Husband Liar Sociopath

Every week, a chapter of  my book,”Husband, Liar, Sociopath: How He Lied, Why I Fell For It & The Painful Lessons Learned” (available via, just click on the title or book cover) will be published here on Lovefraud. To read prior chapters, use the links at the bottom of the post.

I’ve also just released a new ebook titled Narcissists, SOCIOPATHS & Wolves: Lessons From Little Red Riding Hood. (Just click here to find it on Narcissists SOCIOPATHS & Wolves.)

Chapter 56A:  It’s Not Over Until Paul Says It’s Over

Three months after the divorce became official, Daniel was at one of his hated, required weekend visits with his father when he walked by Paul’s home office. Apparently, Paul was on the phone telling a friend that Linda was more than four months pregnant. That meant she was pregnant before Paul and I had even finalized our speedy divorce. Daniel’s pain from the news itself and the way he found out (by overhearing his father telling someone else) was incalculable, his respect for his father down to air.

Daniel started getting into arguments at school, almost coming to blows with classmates multiple times. Night after night, sleep proved elusive. He became reclusive, and his grades plummeted. Intermediate grade reports even showed D’s. Paul thwarted my efforts to get Daniel help at every turn. No time off from required weekends with his father, no therapy, no antidepressants (of which I am only a believer as a last resort), no sleep-away summer camp for a struggling teenager. In Paul’s self-serving, uncaring, sociopathic mind, nothing was wrong. In Paul’s mind, the only problem was Daniel’s lack of reverence for his father.

Daniel became so chronically angry and agitated that I tried to never leave him alone. I worried he would hurt himself. If things got any worse, I feared an attempted suicide. I had to get Daniel help. After I made an appointment with a psychologist, Paul cancelled Daniel’s appointment and told the therapist I had no authority to take Daniel to see him. It wasn’t true, but it scared off the therapist. Paul undermined efforts with a second therapist as well. Finally, I found a therapist who was not intimidated by Paul. Daniel liked him, and he started making immediate and significant progress. I was thrilled and hopeful.

Unable to stop the appointments, Paul called the therapist to insist that his relationship with Daniel be “off limits” during therapy. He also demanded that the therapist back him up in his view that Daniel should not be allowed to continue with karate. The therapist thought just the opposite. When Paul failed to bully the therapist into accepting his terms, he involved our lawyers in the debacle, costing me thousands. Meanwhile, Daniel was finding therapy helpful; he was starting to sleep better and feel less angry. He wanted to continue, because he was finding some resolution and peace about his relationship with his father.

Our divorce decree specified Paul would pay for any therapy the kids needed. To try to undermine Daniel’s therapy, Paul insisted Daniel did not need therapy and refused to pay. I paid for it. My son was hurting. He needed help. The cost was irrelevant. When that did not stop me, Paul took me to court to make me stop taking Daniel to the therapist. In addition, Paul trumped up charges and filed an official complaint against the therapist with the state licensing board. An investigation ensued.

The therapist was cleared easily and quickly, but Paul’s actions, if successful, would have resulted in the therapist losing his livelihood and his license to practice therapy. The risk to the therapist who had been so helpful to Daniel (and, ironically, to Daniel’s strained relationship with Paul) was now enormous. He called me and said that, regretfully, he could no longer work with Daniel. Having seen the monster Paul really is, he recommended that Daniel and I have no contact with Paul ever again. But that was impossible. Thanks to the laws of the state in which I was divorced, I did not have that choice. Quite the opposite, Paul was entitled to have my email, phone number, and address and to share in all decisions relevant to Daniel. To a sociopath, shared decision-making means having the power to blackmail, using the child as leverage. It was madness. I tried to find another therapist so Daniel could continue to deal with the considerable anger he still felt. In light of Paul’s actions, no other therapist was willing to work with Daniel as long as he was a minor. He was sixteen at the time.

Start from the beginning:

Chapter 1

Go to previous chapter:

Chapter 55


Identifying names, places, events, characteristics, etc. that I discuss here and in my book have been altered to protect the identity of everyone involved.

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Sadly, when you leave the sociopath the line of attack centers on the children. They just collect children. And we run around desperately trying to stamp out the fires they create. And yes state laws make it difficult, if not impossible, to ever really leave as long as the children are minors. It’s a life sentence. The only possible real solution is the children take a stand. And not just with the normal parent who is helpless but where it counts in court. My son sat outside the courtroom ready to testify against his father. And why? Because my son desperately wanted to go on his exchange program and his father was thwarting him. Now my son never testified, but the judge saw that he was prepared to and so did the spath. From then on out that one son had freed himself. The same can’t be said of my other children.

SO TRUE! but most people do not see this. So, they blame the protective mother when the sociopath is the male parent. The mother is then labeled vindictive, alienating, and/or the unfriendly parent. The mother cannot win in the corrupt family court system because if she tries to protect the children, the court typically takes children away from the protective parent. If the mother does not protect the children, then Child Protection can take the children away from the mother. The sociopath wears his mask so he looks friendly to the court and acts like a competent parent when under the looking glass. But, he is only conning and grooming the court so he can USE the children to win, to dominate, and to hurt the mother. In addition, many court officials have the same behavior problems as the sociopath.
The children are often confused and traumatized. So, they are often unable to stand against the sociopath. When they do take a stand to protect themselves, they have to do it when they feel safe. But, they MUST save themselves UNLESS and UNTIL the legal system gets serious about holding sociopaths accountable, stops blaming the victim, and truly puts the SAFETY OF CHILDREN FIRST.

Hope Springs

It is disgusting the way that spaths ‘treat’ their children.

They only have children to be adored by them. If and when that stops, the child is of no further use. Not to mention, children being used to torture the other parent.

SO TRUE! I have seen the same thing. The sociopath in my life (and the lives of our three children) used them through the entire divorce process which took ten years because of his harassment, violence, stalking and manipulation. Once he found he did not need them, and that there was no fun in using them any longer, I heard from my children that he spent little time with them. If a matter flared up, which involved me again, he was quick to retaliate by alienating and using the child again. The children, to the sociopath, are USED like chess pieces on the board of life. They are intentionally hurt by the sociopath so that the mother worries. They are used as leverage to demand lower child support. They are used, when gaining custody (by lying and manipulating) so they don’t have to pay any child support. They are used as messengers and spies. They are threatened they must be loyal to him so they learn to take their anger out on the mother. They are killed in order to deeply hurt the mother.

I almost forgot to mention…using our children for ten years in order to win, not caring at all about the damage done to innocent and hurting children, he initially did not even want them. When he left our family, he said “I am leaving to go have fun. You should too”. I asked “What about the children?” He said “Put them in foster care”. The sociopath had NO emotional connection to his children. He drank and drove with them, left them alone while he went out drinking, gave them the middle finger, slammed them around, etc. The corrupt family court system saw nothing wrong with this. He had been a grocery store manager and church attendee for decades and suddenly his mask came off. It feels unbelievable to recognize who these pukes really are on the inside and I was unable to see it for so long. Donna helped me to figure out the root of our family challenges.

Hope Springs

My god…that is pure spath speak…’put them in foster care’…

That leaves me speechless, yet it’s so believable that it came out of the degenerate’s mouth.

It still floors me that the court system cannot see through these spaths…they appear calm and collected while in front of the judge, and the mother (or other parent) is emotional, so therefore, is crazy and not to be believed.

Will this shit EVER change???

Yes, it is “pure spath speak” and so shocking that I actually remember the comment amidst the 10 years post-divorce stalking, harassment and violence. I used to think the family court system did not see through the con of the spath. I now believe there are too many officials, in the court system, who are too comfortable, have the same behavior problems, some may actually be possessed (in my opinion), etc. They don’t want the system to change because the foundation of the patriarchy is VIOLENCE and blaming the victim. The system is their bread and butter. If they can keep the battles going, between the mother and father, they make LOTS of money and have LOTS of power!

I respect “The Women’s Coalition and the nuggets of truth they post on their website:

Hope Springs

I believe that is true.

I have read much research, and not only is the court system (including many lawyers), police, etc full of spaths, but also many therapists are themselves, spaths! And, yes, that is how those people make their money. Dragging things out and through the corrupt system for as long as they can, at times.

I was absolutely incredulous when I read those things. How can a person even attempt to go to therapy if the therapist may be a spath?


No unless society is reconstructed.
Court system uphold sociopaths rightd & give them the same rights as everyone else under the constitution, applies to all …
if your betting between a victim winning or the socio in court sad to say the socio will win based on what I have seen in court, many times.

The real question that I see is….
What as a society shall we do with the socios once we ID them? No shortage of flying monkeys that protect them…

Just look at our political system…or at history? Put them on an island? Put them in jail? Social isolation? They run things & make the laws…wait isn’t that the same court system the ones we look to for justice….oops… Hello?

Socios are more than that your nasty exhusband or awful boyfriend you, unfortunately, crossed paths with ….they run the world and are some of the most powerful people, well positioned in all countries…

In my experience when you out a real socio. people do not want to speak to you & look the other way, bc they are too scared and do not want any trouble or maybe they are waiting on favors from your socio…only place you can post is anonymously risky if they know your ID. The reason many women take 20 years to blow the whistle on their abusers.

Often times the irony is the victim pays the price for outting them…not the socio..they are like teflon…..all washes right off….

Im watching my socio continue to work one person after another…..I’ve outted the socio & it has changed nothing… the socio has more money and power than ever before….so its getting worse, not better. Committing all kinds of criminal acts while contributing to our town financially as well. Likes to be on youtube as a do-gooder. LOL

whatever you do do not expect justice in the family court system notorious for not having any ..again all just in my opinion…

It’s a neverending cat-mouse game with the socios..cross the street & shut the door.
now that you can ID them…with support and education
smile and run….

Hope Springs

I agree 100%.

Outing them is useless. I have realized that as well.

I agree with everyone who is contributing to this dialogue. The corrupt family court system enables the spath. The system is full of personality disordered or arrogant, power hungry ego beings. The children are prey, frightened and traumatized. The community is programmed to blame the victim. The survivor is left alone to somehow survive all the damage while being blamed for what she DID NOT do. I have tried everything, to no avail, to help my family heal!

So, I detach from the dysfunctional relationships, and the deep pain and confusion, in order to save myself because this chronic exposure of being abused (by everyone) destroys health! I cannot give up hope though it appears dark and, at times, I despair. I self-published a book, which documented the life experience, to offer it as a tool if/when my adult children decide to start healing. Though I tried to break through their brainwashing, from the spath, for years, I no longer try. It just cements their “taking revenge out on the safe parent”. I can’t take anymore. All I can do is wait to see if my children awaken out of the brainwashing.

Our daughter did, several years ago, and was so kind and respectful. I could not have asked for more. She awakened when the spath blew up at her. However, she went back to default mode because she has so much trauma stored inside her and needs to focus on healing (which is on the back burner for her as a young mother and wife). Our youngest son now is suffering a health crisis and has contacted me as he is desperate. Hopefully, he will follow through and start healing. Our oldest son is so brainwashed by the spath, he cannot see the light of day.

The danger here, for protective mothers, is knowing how damaged our children are. The ACE study reveals that all the damage (chronic stress and trauma) will result in mental and physical health challenges in approximately the third decade of life (if the child is not murdered by the spath before then or if the child does not commit suicide). I will ALWAYS despise the spath for the damage he did to innocent children just so he could get everything he wanted!

I will close with words from M. Scott Peck, M.D. in his book “People of the Lie, The Hope for Healing Human Evil”: “Evil…is the most difficult of all things with which to cope…think of what it must be like for the child living in its midst. The child can emotionally survive only by virtue of a massive fortification of its psyche. It happens, then, that the children of evil parents enter adulthood with very significant psychiatric disturbances. To come to terms with evil in one’s parentage is perhaps the most difficult and painful psychological task a human being can be called on to face. Most fail and so remain its victims” (pg. 130) Since they are not able to stop relating to the spath (evil), they ‘best know as much as they can about what they’re doing’ (pg. 136)

I will give my children the educational information as they are ready. I will leave a legacy, of writing our story (writing several more books), for them to hopefully break free even if it is not until after I pass on. I cannot be silenced but I refuse to be the target for their anger any longer. With the distress held in their bodies, by not speaking truth and/or taking a stand to protect themselves from the spath, hopefully they will decide to free themselves and begin the journey of recovery. I broke free from the programming of the spath and this corrupt system. If I can do it, they can too.

Hope Springs

Thank you for this post…it is so tragic what spaths do to a family and my god, mostly to the children.

I understand that one must walk away and save one’s self. I did that as well. I was dying and I wanted to live.

I hope all of the children take a stand at some point.

I hear you, Bev, as I was dying also. I had critical health crises and still work on restoring health three decades after divorce. I forgot to mention the reality of the spath dying. He thinks he is invincible but life is bigger than the spath. As much of a coward he is, on the inside, I’m guessing he will be fearful as he ages knowing he cannot get away with lies in the afterlife. I do not believe in forgive and forget. I believe we are all held accountable for our actions in our lifetime. Karma and reincarnation make more sense to me than heaven or hell for eternity.

The spath, in my life, is on prescription medications. He drinks, eats processed foods, has knee replacements, his need for control wears out his body, etc. Our son commented that he feared his father would die before myself and his grandmother. I don’t know what was going on at the time. But, I know the spath overreacts to every inconvenience (every hangnail, etc.) especially as they age. I witnessed it when he had an appendectomy years ago.

The nurse was inserting the IV and the spath writhed, in his body, like it was a major infliction of pain. I recall that the IV did not hit the right spot the first time. He was so verbally abusive, I left for home as soon as they took him in for surgery.

It is known that males do not take care of their health and tend to pass before females. So, that is possibly a reality which will bring some serenity, finally, to this nightmare. If the spath passes before the protective mother, maybe THEN the children’s minds will be emancipated so they can think for themselves and preserve their well-being. If others call that being “vindictive”, they have not lived a dance with a devil. They have not had to fight fiercely to protect their children and witnessed the severe damage. I call it survival!

Hope Springs

This is all so true.

I bet that all spaths (perhaps even the female ones) do not really take care of themselves, healthfully. We can only hope that leads to where is should lead. Early demise.

I love who you are. The way that you write (talk) with logic yet emotion. The way that you see things so realistically….yet with a bit of humor. I have had to have a bit of humor as well, otherwise, it is all too tragic, chaotic, and crazy.


Thanks, Bev, for the feedback as I didn’t realize I came across with a “bit of humor” in this life experience. This has been an extraordinary ordeal which will not go away and which has cost me everything. The spath even makes sure there is character assassination, with his smear campaign, so that everything is taken away. I have had to even create protective boundaries around me because so many do not understand the complex dynamics created by the pathological liar, the spath. This includes my biological family. I am one who has high standards and I refuse to pass on this evil behavioral pattern to the next generation (like my parents did by defending themselves and blaming others). I stand alone to break the alcoholic, violent pattern in my family. It has been what often feels like a solitary journey.

How different it would have been if the corrupt family court system would have done the right thing. All those idiots needed to do was to hold the spath accountable and prioritize the safety of children. Basic morality and common sense, right?! I have recently studied “The Burning Times”, the holocaust of women (some children and some men but mostly women). The horrors of what the government and religious leaders did to innocent women should never be forgotten in my opinion. I believe this is because those same/similar attitudes still exist today. They were attitudes coming from a collective group of spaths. How else could they torture the innocent while having no conscience and enjoying the view!! How else could they confabulate that women (pictured as elderly and haggard) could fly through the air at night on a broomstick?

I believe our current life experience is a similar psychic torture. I see the corrupt family court system as an abyss of ambush and torture toward women. Go in and speak up about needing to protect yourself and your children from male violence. They will take your children away in order to silence and destroy you. The spath will love it and will use the system to legally stalk you. It is entertainment for the spath. When the spaths in the system take children away from protective mothers, it results in a spiritual death for mothers. I still struggle to survive and recover. Evil has designed it this way and they know what they are doing. They are maintaining dominance and control by using children as leverage. They call this justice.

It has been decades since I was in the corrupt family court system. Back then, I had to search for answers as to how such injustice could happen. Currently, there is much public outcry about how these spaths are “using children as bait and leverage” and taking children away from protective parents. I am making it a life mission to expose the truth and to leave a trail (through writing) so my children will be able to understand this battle of good versus evil. “When the truth is finally recognized, survivors can begin their recovery” (Judith Lewis Herman, M.D.)

Hope Springs

None of this is funny or humorous. I am sorry that is how I came across. What it is, is, that you have an excellent way of explaining things in words and writing.

I should clarify what I meant by a bit of humor…I found it humorous that the spath writhed in pain while having an iv inserted. The way that you wrote it, made me laugh. At him, type thing. Big babies is what they really are.

Big babies who are dangerous adults who seem to be able to turn all against us and fool the courts. As you say, many in the system are already willing to jump right in to the spathery.

Bev, I assure you that I did not take offense about the “humor” comment. I was simply grateful to hear that you can hear how I can be lighthearted at times. I’m sure you know, running around putting out the fires started by the spath, how much survival energy it has required of us. I should have said “writhed like a snake”, on the hospital bed, as that would be fitting along with how weak willed babies they are. However, they can put on their fake adult mask in public and skillfully turn their con on and off. In my opinion, they deserve no respect…only accountability.

I was notified, this morning, of a friend who lost everything last night in a house fire. She was stalked by male, in her neighborhood for months, and rejected him. He sounds like a another spath to me. She had to jump out of a window, holding her small dog, and broke her leg (again which had been recently crushed in a car accident). I feel tears for her as this is too much. Neighbors saw the male walking in the neighborhood, carrying something prior to the start of the fire, so police are looking for him. When one does not have such a mind as the spath has, one has a hard time conceiving of doing so much harm to another human being.

It appears that the cesspool of spaths are on the increase. I hope it means that we have to learn about their existence in order to survive. I hope it means we finally stop the ‘blame the victim’ mantra and direct fierce accountability to these perpetrators. I had no idea how screwed up the legal system is when I went into that abyss in order to divorce the spath. It was learning the hard way. It sounds you learned the hard way, also, while trying to protect innocent children.

Hope Springs

I am so happy that you got what I meant by humor. I too deal with things with a bit of humor. I almost can’t not, otherwise it all hurts so much.

I am wondering if some of this increasing cesspool of spaths is occurring at or before birth, as in their brains are wrong from the get go for whatever reason. Add to that, either severe child abuse (bad parenting, other environmental factors) or overindulgence as in never being made accountable for their actions as children, overly coddled, and never being made to take responsibility for anything that they do (also bad parenting in the opposite direction).

I am always interested to learn what these spath adults’ childhood was like. You never can be 100% certain, either, because spaths lie so much.

I have read a lot lately about how these people are born with a low frustration tolerance. Of course, life is frustrating, but we all have to deal with it. They ARE overly babyish and seem to have extremely low self control, or at least the maturity to exercise it. It’s as if they are stuck in toddlerhood.

Mind you, millions of people were abused or overindulged as children, and they are not spaths.

I don’t know why I even care why they are. They are adults and all adults choose their actions. They are horrible people.

Certainly, yes, I got what you meant about humor. I appreciate being able to dialogue with women like you who understand this incredibly difficult life experience. The experience revolves around protecting vulnerable children and it goes on and on because our children (and ourselves) are so damaged. We must heal.

I have wondered, also because of curiosity, need for understanding, and need for protection, what makes a spath act the way they do. I think lots of ingredients go into making a spath like upbringing, wiring of the brain, life experiences, etc. But, we all go through hardship on this planet. I think so much of it is choice. They know what they are doing, plan for how to hurt, and they get a dopamine high off hurting and conning other people, and then winning. Scott Peck, MD, talks about possession in his book “People of the Lie”.

They refuse to look within and/or get counseling. In fact, the spath in my life made fun of counseling and disrupted therapy sessions for our children. He actually intruded, unannounced in one of our daughter’s individual sessions, in order keep her from talking. Obviously, the therapist quickly identified his personality disorder because of his impulsive, entitled, destructive behavior. He was continuously lying, manipulating, gaslighting, denying, assaulting, stalking, harassing, and doing whatever so he could get his way and get away with what he was doing. It was second nature to him (words spoken to me by a therapist a long time ago).

I believe he made choices, day after day, month after month, and year after year which hardened his soul into hell.

He had NO problem, AT ALL, with using his children as leverage. NO CONSCIENCE! NO HEART! which I had to grapple with in order to understand. Our children will have to grapple, with all that happened, in order to someday have clarity. I hope, then, they set themselves free from the spath’s mind control.

Hope Springs

I am so glad to hear your opinion on this. Yes!
I feel the same. Choices. These people CHOOSE to be the way that they are. Definitely.

I read so much about what terrible childhoods they must have had and I can attest that is not always the case. Also, even if it is so, why, as an adult, do they intentionally hurt people? Why do they continually lie and destroy lives? Many who have been abused vow to never be like that themselves. They choose the right path. It’s a cop out that we should feel sorry for these types, over and over again. Poor them.

No, I believe that they are born. I believe that at some point, a choice is made. It is their nature…first nature.

Just as pedophiles are born, spaths are born.

I have learned, through this life experience, that there are scary religious and new age teachings which teach us to forgive and forget, don’t speak anything negative, thoughts are things, etc. I have found these teachings can leave us passive, unprotected, unaware, and vulnerable to predators. Instead, especially for women, I think we need to be aware, discerning, using anger for self-protection, caution, etc. There is way too much victim blaming! If we woke up, as a culture, and simply became aware of spaths and then focused on their accountability, there would finally be accountability. Then, this paradigm of ‘blame the victim’ would finally shift to accountability for evil done by perpetrators. We have a very sick and dangerous world out there because evil is currently dominating and destroying.

Hope Springs

I could not agree with you more.

It seems the world has completely shifted. In a bad way. Evil and hatred are rampant.

Heartening news is the metoo movement. It is way beyond time for this to happen. This is about the only good thing in our world at present.

Yes, it is ingrained in us as children, to forgive, to be nice to everyone, to always give the benefit of the doubt, to give second third fourth etc. chances…all lovely concepts if you are a princess, living in a fairy tale book. Not so much in the real world.

It is a huge wake-up call out there: evolve or die. The world has gone mad and we have to do the right thing or not survive. I am grateful that I now understand the spaths (evil) in our world so I can avoid them. My ex-husband was the person who taught me what evil truly is. He could put his mask on and take it off at will in order to con. I have done what I can to now teach my children what I have learned. But, obviously, they have to decide what they will do with the spath. Again, coming to terms with evil in a parent is “perhaps the most difficult and painful psychological task a human being can be called on to face” (Scott Peck, M.D.).

Do you mind sharing how your children are doing with navigating this nightmare? Our daughter is currently totally disconnected from the spath after he raged at her, blamed her for the incident, and did nothing constructive to repair the damage. Maybe she will focus on her healing and recovery (as a wife and mother of four children when she has time). Our son, who stood against the spath years ago, got sucked back into the web of lies and manipulation when he fell apart at a family funeral. When our son fell apart (because of all the trauma and grief), the spath swooped in like the savior and feigned love, blaming me, which our son totally fell for. I’m sure he wanted to believe his dad was for real. Of course, over time, the spath walks away if there is no drama he can feed off of. When will this son see that he is being used? Our youngest son is currently struggling with effects of chronic trauma. So, he has contacted me to help him put his life back together. But, he plays the middle and can’t talk openly about what we went through.

So, I can’t trust my children. I have to walk on eggshells and protect myself around my children and/or avoid them. They have taken their anger out on me for decades. They don’t take their anger out on the spath. This is a cruel twist. They take revenge out on the safe parent and it becomes a bad habit (what I read and experience). I can’t take anymore with suffering PTSD and have to save myself. All I know to do is to stand my ground, have nothing to do with the spath and his lies, be a good example, and hope my children free themselves from the brainwashing and choose a healthier path some day.

Hope Springs

Spellbreaker, I apologize for not replying sooner.

Your post rips my heart out. Yet another story of a loving mother, torn to shreds by a spath. I am elated that your daughter SEES. I am devastated that your son does not. YET…hopefully.

I am not with a spath spouse. My best friend has been through almost exactly what you have.

Like your situation, my friend has at least one child who can see the spath for who and what he is, and has other children who have bought into what the spath is selling. They have turned their backs on their own mother, due to the spath’s lies. I am sure that my friend also wonders if and when those children who believe in the spath, will come out of their trance and save themselves. My friend cannot save those (her) children, as you say. She also cannot trust some of her children.

It is beyond belief. Impossible to fathom. But it is this way. My friend had to walk away from those children, in order to survive. So that she could remain living in this world. One cannot win against a spath. Spaths always seem to be able to prevail. I have seen it more than once.

What an awful feeling it is for a mother (parent) to have to let go of her core beliefs regarding protecting and even loving her own children. What could be worse than that?

Yes. all one can do is stand their ground. Hold onto being a good person. Good has to prevail in these godforsaken situations…surely. I have to believe that.

Bev: I see you as being a very wise and sensitive woman. There are few people like you who see through the lies and manipulations of the spaths. Typically, most people race to judgment and blame the victim. They think the mother, such as your best friend, DID SOMETHING wrong to deserve being treated so poorly. But, you have stood by your friend, sorting through without racing to judgment, and become much more aware than most people. You have described our lives accurately:

-how it rips the heart out
-how amazing when one child can see through
-how others bought into what the spath is
-how they turn their backs on their own mother, due to the spath’s lies, which is unnatural
-we wonder if our children will come out of their trance and save themselves (thus the reason my screen name is spellbreaker)
-we try everything to awaken them and learn we cannot save our children and we learn we cannot trust our children as they are used by the spath
-it is beyond belief. Impossible to fathom
-we have to walk away from our own children, in order to survive
-spaths always seem to prevail because they will stoop to do whatever it takes in order to win, including using children whether or not it damages the child
-what an awful feeling it is for a mother (parent) to have to let go of her core beliefs regarding protecting and even loving her own children. What could be worse than that?

I find the equivalent, is like the “burning times”, when women were tortured and killed for fabrications and confabulations by toxic males (in government and religion who actually believed women could fly through the air on a broomstick). These toxic males, who are irresponsible, hate, abuse, and dominate women, are still crazy.

Children take their pain and confusion out on the safe parent because the spath is too dangerous and unpredictable.

Until the children decide to do their own inner healing, they will continue to displace their anger and revenge on to the safe parent.

It took me DECADES and INCREDIBLE SUFFERING, including near death experiences, before I could let go and walk away to save myself. Faith is shattered in the process. I hope for goodness and truth to prevail in these godforsaken situations. I do lots of writing, in books I will leave for my children, so they may know the truth someday. I hope to live long enough to see truth recognized so my children can begin their recovery and break the chain. In Donna’s recent post “11 Answers to questions about sociopaths”, she says that “many sociopaths eventually crash and burn” and “die younger than people who are not disordered”. That is the only hope I have left along with my children possibly awakening as they journey and reflect.

Your best friend is fortunate to have you for support as you are intelligent and enlightened. You have learned good versus evil in this world, that evil truly exists, AND IT IS UGLY. If it were obvious, it would help. But, evil always manufactures lies and violence, in some form, in order to cover up what they are doing so they can confuse people. I am fortunate to hear, from someone like you, who sees through all the lies and the blame the victim mantra. Thank you for your post.

Hope Springs

Thank you very much for the kind words. You are talking about yourself, as well, even though you may not realize it. You are THERE. Everyone is fortunate to have YOU. You can and will help many who are looking for answers. You can answer them. You have the knowledge, because you have lived it.

I almost can’t understand why others cannot see when someone has been chewed up and spit out, by a spath. It is so evident to me. I guess it can be chalked up to non-education in personality disorders.

I care so much about my friend. The whole experience has marked her deeply, yet made her so much stronger. She was always a beautiful person, so I don’t know if it is even possible that she could be even more so, but something changes in people who have been through spathery. In a good way, (as difficult as that is to say. I wish for nobody to go through this). If nothing else comes out of this, it is that they (we) become, or perhaps always were, absolute realists who can REALLY SEE. No denial. No excuses for people who intentionally hurt others. No excuses no matter what.

It was no picnic getting to that point, nor is it easy to be so empathetic and feeling. I am uplifted by people like you…people who are just like me!

Bev: Sorry I got out of my rhythm with checking this blog. I have been mesmerized by going deep into reviewing this life experience so I can document it in another book (which I am writing for my children. This one will include copies of documents so they will not be easily denied). Though I have done much work to recover from an incredible amount of trauma, revisiting the past stirs up hyper-vigilance in me each time).

As I listen to you speak, I see a depth of awareness and compassion which is unusual. For example, I have known friends who I thought cared but who eventually ended up blaming the victim somehow. I think society has been trained to believe it is 50-50 when one has conflict. It is NOT. It is not 50-50 when the spath has to have domination and will stoop to whatever means to maintain his control. He will not think twice about USING and DESTROYING children. He will ENJOY what he is doing because he knows it hurts the protective mother. It takes a rare person like you to go the extra mile to understand how evil twists everything around on the victim/survivor. You are a gem most who is most needed in our world.

Yes, why can’t people see what the spath has done? When I review court documents and all of my efforts to stop damage to my children, I have loads of affidavits, police reports, protective orders, etc. The spath has none, puts his mask on in public, lies and he is believed. Unless people see through his mask of insanity, the victim/survivor looks “unfriendly” because she is in survival ON A DAILY BASIS to survive the evil assaults from the spath. I think that is one reason. Another reason is that the evil caused by the spath is too close to what happens in people’s lives. Generally, people do not want to look within at their own experience with being victim/survivor. So, they project their avoidance and denial on to others. Plus, the family court system is dominated by sexist, toxic males who use the same/similar behaviors.

Thank you for the reflection on what I offer to other people. Yes, I do help other people when I work with them (was a Social Worker before I semi-retired). I believe you when you say your friend is beautiful and only has deepened her character by being forced to survive brutality from the spath. I was always perfectionistic and with high standards. So, I was always trying way too hard to do the right thing. Sad to say, that is what a spath likes and looks for is someone who is loyal and tolerant. For a long time, I worried what I was doing wrong to be treated so poorly. I gradually awakened to realizing I was suffering because I was standing up and doing the right thing which displeases the spath and his flying monkeys. Surviving such great evil requires intense fortitude and dedication to reality or one will not survive the crisis. I still work to heal the damage to my mind and body. But, I have learned much about what evil truly is.

Thank you for being such a gem to me in this blog Bev. You summed it up so well: “It was no picnic getting to that point, nor is it easy to be so empathetic and feeling. I am uplifted by people like you…people who are just like me!”
The suffering is beyond comprehension and made worse because we care. I am uplifted by getting to know you and your truth. In contrast, the spath does NOT care. It is truly a dance with a devil and such lack of compassion is the ugliest thing I have seen on this planet.

If you feel you need a break from the blog, feel free to say so. I don’t want you to feel obligated. If it helps you and your friend, I gladly stay in touch. It’s sad that I typically don’t find enlightened people like you and your friend commonly in my community. It seems most are content to embrace the dominant thought, blame the victim, and stay hypnotized. It seems most don’t have the courage to think for themselves so they go along with the crowd.

Hope Springs

Please, no apology ever necessary for not ‘keeping up’. Look how long it has taken me! And, no, I will never need a break from this blog, nor, wonderfully understanding people like you. If only everyone was the same. This world would be a great place.

We ‘who see’ all do seem to have these similarities in common…perfectionism, people pleasing, as well as high standards (for ourselves, anyway). And yes…we care. We overly care. Is that why we have gone through what we have? Perhaps. Our nurturing traits may lead us to dangerous places that we weren’t aware could ever be dangerous. I mean, a danger to ourselves and to our very core.

You have helped me, and I am certain, my friend as well. Please keep spreading your beautiful mind all over this site and in your other endeavors. We all need you. We all need each other.

Bev: I missed this post so I am going back so I can reply with gratitude for your graciousness with open communication! In my studies, I have read that it is often women with high standards of altruism that makes us vulnerable to these predators. Because we are kind, intelligent, people pleasing, sensitive, loyal, etc. (all good qualities for healthy relationships), these predators take advantage of our loyalty and patience. They feast off all of our giving energy. After divorce, the spath could not let go (for ten years of stalking and harassment) because he needed the drama to feed off of (with NO CONCERN for damage he was doing to our children).

Now, decades later, I still deal with the damage. My youngest son called again today (xmas day) with severe symptoms of Complex-PTSD so I am helping with doctoring him back to health. This just does not go away in this crazy, corrupt world which DOES NOT protect our children from child abusers, batterers, and sexual pedophiles. I am nearly finished with writing another book, with documentation, so my children can more easily sort through all we went through. I think it will help tremendously because so much trauma, which we suffered, ends up causing a blur in memories.

I trust I have learned my lesson with my run in with a pure spath. Anyone who comes along and acts like him will get the message “GO AWAY” very quickly. What do you think happens when they die? I think they go to a place where they are with other pukes who act like them so they can decide whether to stay the same or grow up. I think the only way they learn is to experience what they did to other people.


The story sounds is always is always tragic. My spath smugley suggested we place our children ‘up for adoption’. He has custody of all the children but eldest is ‘allowed to pick his residence’. I was reduced to a pile of rubble after nearly 18 years of marriage, raising children, and being at his beck and call. The judge ordered the kids 300 miles away to live with him in another state. I have since left town, gotten a job, a small apartment and have resigned myself to a life without four of my children. I ostensibly have visitation but because I’m in a hostile court, with the spath hiring the former husband of judge, it is unenforceable, not to mention the threat of some false accusation against me. I have disengaged. Of course this makes he spath furious at how dare I accept reality and move on. Once my eldest graduates (this child has had to appear in court and make his wishes known and has) I may just relocate out of the country. A spath with money can cause a lot of damage.

becomingstrong: You went from a “pile of rubble” to “resigned myself to a life without four of my children”. It is a place a protective mother NEVER sees coming because it is unfathomable that such can happen. It sounds you got to the “becomingstrong” place more quickly than I but ends up there eventually. The overwhelming loss of our own children is because the spath knows that is where he hurts us the most and because one cannot seem to win against the spath who stoops to whatever means necessary in order to win. It is like they sold their soul to the devil and care for nothing else other than “my way or the highway”. They use the children as chess pieces in their mind games while, in reality, they prefer to put the children up for adoption or put them in foster care so they can go have fun…?!?!


Bev has a lot of really insightful advice regarding disengaging. One of the reasons, in my opinion, that the ‘normal parent’ loses in family court is simply you are only as strong as your weakest link and usually the normal parent is trying to protect the children who are the most vulnerable. The spath enlists the child that is capable of lying and throwing mud against the normal parent. The normal parent has no such arsenal. The normal parent is busy trying to shield the child who is not hateful. The problem as I see it, unless you are magician and able to have some control over your life all the while dealing with a spath, you are left with one choice -LEAVE/RUN. This may sound cold but it’s really the only way one canescape with what remains of sanity and physical wellbeing. If the children don’t stand up and face the demon you can do very little for that child. Small victories with the spath result in tremendous loses down the road for you and the weaker children. My advice to a parent thinking of taking on a spath with a reticent child -DONT! That’s like going into the tundra in December with a sweater. Save yourself Your children will find you later if they choose.

Your point “one choice – LEAVE/RUN” is startling and thought provoking. I think of all the years I fought to protect children who I realize now were mind controlled by the spath. There was no way I could win: 1) the pathological liar spath had more money and would stoop to whatever means to win, 2) the children were enlisted in the spath’s war on mom and willing to do what the spath wanted them to do, and 3) the patriarchy is toxic, sexist and refuses to protect the basic human rights of battered women and children. The system likes to keep the war going because that is where they make lots of money. Protective mother’s instinct is to protect and we don’t know how corrupt the system is when we go into it. It is like the “burning times” when innocent women were torched while their children watched them burn or hang. If I had to do it all over again, I see the value and truth in your advice though it would be the hardest decision to make. LEAVE/RUN would have prevented the sacrifice of my health for children who don’t care about the mother and only care about obeying the spath. As children mature and resolve their trauma, may they then recognize how cruel they have been to their mothers and how brainwashed they have been. May they make the choice to finally face the demon and see him for who he really is – only using children to get what he wants.

Hope Springs

That is what spaths do…use all of the people in their lives, especially their spouses and children, for an image that they wish to project. Never with any truth nor genuineness.

Hope Springs

I wonder at times, if there is a spath playbook, as they all seem to be cut from the same rotten piece of cloth.

It pains me that mothers, one after the other, have these similar life experiences.

If you have children with a spath, your life will never be as you imagined and hoped that it would be. Thank goodness we can learn to love ourselves…more than anyone else can love us…and make our lives beautiful. Thank goodness for that indeed.

We are enough for ourselves.

Thank you, Bev, again for your input. Your thoughts are sobering and bring tears to my eyes. Yes, “we are enough for ourselves” and yes it seems “life will never be as you imagined” if you had children with a spath. That is how it has played out and I have learned to make my life the way I need it to be without my children (as long as they stay entangled in the brutal game played by the spath). Few people understand what you just said in your post. Even my family of origin, especially my mother, think I should just get over it and spend time with my children no matter how much they mistreat me (and yes they use the same strategies the spath used withy trying to dominate and control me). I hear your wisdom gleaned, I’m sure, from realistically and unbelievably seeing how the brutal spath is always vindictive especially with using children.

I, too, have said it is like they all go to the same devil school.

Hope Springs

There is an epidemic of ‘family first’ mentality in society. It is ingrained in our psyches, often to our detriment.

Your mother may mean well, however, and please, no offense intended, she is misguided in mired thinking. Many simply will not step out of, nor leave the box. Ever. As people of the world, we are taught that family is and means everything. No matter how damaging that may be. It is only the open minded brave ones that can free themselves from this thinking. The ones who have lived with a disordered person/s and who have gone searching for information and answers as to WHY. (This is getting much too philosophical…so sorry).

Being realistic and accepting what is right in front of one, with no denial, is key. Fantasies of what we would like, instead of what is, don’t work.

We have to keep being who we are. We must not bend (nor go back) to someone else’s way of thinking. In turn, we likely cannot convince them about our truthful researched and proven knowledge. They were not in our shoes. They have to get there themselves, and many never will.

Bev: I don’t know what you have been through in order to have such wisdom. But, I get the best goose bumps when I read your most recent post. You see through so much of the illusions out there. Family can be the most painful place on earth when they are so mired in dysfunction and denial.

My father was easier to figure out because he was violent and alcoholic. My mother always claims she “loves her family so much” that it is a mantra she uses while she enables the family pattern of violence and alcoholism her entire life. She feels so toxic to me that we cannot communicate without conflict in what we believe. Now, she wants me to live as she did. I am the “open minded brave” one (as you say) who has freed myself from the old family pattern. I can’t tolerate mistreatment even from my own children and why should I?! One major myth, in my family, is “forgive and forget”, even if the perpetrator does not apologize for abusive behavior.

The holidays tend to be more of a challenge with having no family. So, I am taking your comment with me to feel strong through the holidays: “We are enough for ourselves.” I agree there is too much acting in our society, like family is most important, when most of us have families which are very painful to be around this time of year.


when we were going through court hearings, HE wanted FULL custody, alimony and child support; never mind that the 2 underage boys were HS Seniors and already enlisted in the military (being emanicipated, as my lawyer described it)..I had a legal writ ready to sign, so the 2 sons could live with me, until their military service would start (less than 3 months after HS graduation)..but he wheedled and begged and they went to for those few months, I had to pay HIM 1/2 of their monthly health insurance bill. I barely had enough money to feed/support/clothe myself; but somehow I managed it. No one helped me. I shouldnt have been surprised that they took HIS side. He wheedled, whined, cried, begged them NOT to abandon HIM in his needs. These psychopaths DO use children, for THEIR purposes and to torture the other parent..its still going on, after almost 20 years of divorce.

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