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The truth about sex and sociopaths

“Very erotic!” That’s how a woman whom we’ll call “Cathy” described the beginning of her relationship with “Matt.” “Sex, sex, sex,” she said, “and sweet whisperings in my ears.”

After a whirlwind romance, they married. Cathy eventually discovered that sex was all Matt really wanted. She found a duffel bag filled with hard-core porn. His sexual demands made her uncomfortable. He cheated. Yet whenever Matt did or said anything hurtful, he soon acted as if nothing had happened.

Matt turned out to be callous, deceitful, manipulative, narcissistic, hostile, irresponsible, reckless and impulsive. In other words, he was a sociopath.

Many people think that sociopaths are all deranged serial killers. In reality, most sociopaths never kill anyone. They are, however, serial exploiters, always on the lookout for someone to use—often for sex.

But you would never know this when you first meet a sociopath. In the beginning, sociopaths seem to be charismatic, charming, exciting—and incredibly sexy.

Rating sex with sociopaths

People who have had sex with individuals who they now believe are sociopaths almost always rave about it. I’ve spoken to hundreds of people about their experiences. They often tell me that the sex with these individuals was the best they ever had.

For my book, Red Flags of Love Fraud 10 signs you’re dating a sociopath, I conducted a survey of more than 1,300 Lovefraud readers. One question was, “If you had sex with the individual, how would you rate it?” Here are the responses:

Sex with sociopaths

  • Extraordinary 30%
  • Satisfying 15%
  • Dissatisfying 6%
  • At first satisfying, later dissatisfying 30%
  • He/she was satisfied; I was not 12%
  • Abusive 4%
  • Not applicable 3%

In all, 75% of survey respondents rated the sex as satisfying or more than satisfying, at least in the beginning of the relationship.

Why sociopaths are hot in bed

Sociopaths are hard-wired for sex. They have a lot of energy. They crave excitement and stimulation it’s an integral part of the disorder. Sex, of course, is one of the most stimulating activities a human being can enjoy. Sociopaths want it. They want it early and often. So they start young and engage frequently.

All sociopaths, both male and female, have high levels of testosterone. This hormone drives people to compete for sex partners and then mate with them. In sociopaths, high testosterone means high pursuit.

Besides craving excitement, sociopaths are also born without fear or shame. Consequently, they fail to develop guilt, inhibitions, a conscience or a sense of morality. Social proscriptions against particular acts mean nothing to them. They don’t care about the discomfort of their partners either.

So what does all this mean for sociopaths and sex? They have voracious appetites, they indulge often and anything goes.

No feelings of love

You might think that sex with a sociopath sounds exciting. But there are a few more things you should know.

First of all, if you want love along with your sex, you’re not going to get it from a sociopath. These people cannot form empathetic connections with other human beings, and therefore are incapable of feeling love. However, they know that if they speak words of love convincingly, they get what they want. So sociopaths often proclaim love quite eloquently—at least until they’re bored with you.

Second, if you want to keep the wild sex all for yourself, that’s not going to happen either. Most sociopaths cheat. In the Lovefraud survey, 75% of respondents said the sociopaths cheated on them, and 20% said they became infected with a sexually transmitted disease.

Finally, sociopaths are not slaves to their testosterone-fueled desires. They are quite capable of controlling, even withholding, sex, when it suits their purpose. For these people, sex usually has an agenda. Sometimes it’s just the physical release. But often sex is a tool to snare you, so that they can exploit you in some other way.

Sociopaths have incredible sexual magnetism. But if you hook up with them, the excitement will, sooner or later, lead to real problems in your life out of bed.

 

 



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My ex-boyfriend told me that he looked at his ex-wife once during a sexual encounter and he said he thought, “She’s nothing but a receptacle.” It was a horrible thing to say. I think back on some of the things he told me about his ex-wives and girlfriends. I kept thinking it was inevitable that he’d eventually turn on me that way. After idealizing me, he’d devalue me and betray me. Again, I knew this guy for a a long time at a distance. I only stayed in a dating relationship with him for two months. The reason I left so soon is because I learned my lesson with my ex-husband before. He was a sociopath with other personality disorders and addictions. I got so burned I never forgot my lessons. I seemed to attract another sociopath with this recent shorter-term boyfriend. But I knew when to get out. One night I just sensed something was wrong. I’d been feeling him turning cold on me all week after lovebombing me for about seven weeks straight. I recognized the pattern from my previous marriage. I gathered my things I’d brought to spend the night at his condo and announced I was leaving. I even took my keys from his key ring. This made him very angry. I was feeling panic and anxiety. He turned all stern and icy on me. He told me I had “issues.” Of course, I didn’t know at the time that he was calling his ex-girlfriend behind my back and asking her to get back together with him. But I knew something was very wrong. That night-despite my gut feeling telling me to leave- I ended up staying the night with him and giving in. I saw this wry smile appear on his face, a look of satisfaction, like he won. It wasn’t joy. It wasn’t kindness. It was this self-satisfied grin. It creeped me out. I had seen this kind of smile before in my past. I think he’s got a lot of hostility toward women in general. He masks that and calls himself a great “lover.” Every failed relationship he’s had is someone else’s fault. He’s the victim. It is such a load of crap. I am just glad I got out. I wasn’t so smart in my past. I wasted a lot of years. I just can’t do it to myself anymore.

Cassandrasdream,
I know that smile;it haunts me to this day.

I know the smirk of self satisfaction too. It is horrible, unnerving. ,You are very strong cassdream , you have learnt to keep yourself safe. That’s great.

Blossom,

I felt a cold chill in my body when I saw that. I told him that night, “I see you.” I meant “I see you for what you are.” He was so angry. I think that is what they fear the most.

But everything is a game. And he won. And at the moment I was the opponent. All the phony love stuff he’d been bombarding me with for seven weeks or so just evaporated.

So pathetic.

Cassandrasdream,
I did not “pick up on that smile” at the time,but later after I left,it was one of the things I remembered,and suddenly,I felt very cold and frightened!Because I wondered exactly what he was thinking at the time he smiled that way at me!Although married for all these years,we had not had sex for 20 yrs(he was withholding).After having a d&c,for some reason,perhaps a sudden surge of hormones or the humiliation I’d been through of the gynecologist learning my story,I wanted to try.We did,or rather I did…he was lazy.THEN CAME THE SMILE…..UGH!

And yes, it was the same for me, except that my ex was a female.

On top of that, I’m starting to wonder if I’ve not bumbled into another one.

Anyway, great sex. And extremely eloquent about her feelings (if not a little demanding about mine). She constantly waxed on about how she felt for me showering me with gifts, shizzle, and an array of minutia.

Just one problem…. She was showering an entire cloud of men with gifts, shizzle, and minutia.

But I, the unwittingly vigilant INTP, began to sense that something was amiss.

What a frackin’ bummer that this is the fruit life sometimes bears.

I was targeted by a sexually magnetic male at my last full time (state position). Yeah…you may have read this in another post.

My instincts told me he was a “manipulator/user” so I side-stepped him when possible (which was not often as he thought nothing of frequently my office everyday) and he caused exciting sexual tension (to the point where I wanted to leave…become a truck driver…anything…) just to end it.

It turns out that I DID leave because of him. After he turned on me and threw me under the bus. He suddenly turned nasty and cruel. It was due to my lackluster work skills, to be sure…but might it have also been due to my spurning him?

Sorry for the grammatical errors…I meant “frequenting my office” not “frequently”…

Other mistakes…”after he turned on me…” is not a sentence…

You get the picture, eh?

Sometimes I wish I had not deleted all texts from The Illusion because when I remember the lovebomb feeling (being captivated by his smile & the insane sexual chemistry) it makes my mournful. If I had the texts that showed his ‘true’ personality, that couldn’t be blurred by that intense gaze (which now the thought creeps me out), I would be reminded about the rage behind the eyes & stop mourning it. (I am truly thankful they’re gone. )
Most days are good, & always getting better, but sometimes when I’m feeling lonely I crave the physical intensity… which I know is an insane thought.

PS. I’m thankful that my coworkers have stopped talking about ’50 Shades of Sociopath’ book series which turns my stomach.

50 shades of sociopath! Lol. So true.

Two cents from another gay victim – my ex-spath use to hyper-ventilate during sex in the beginning and there were several occassions where I thought he was going to have a heart attack!

Looking back, I wonder if the hyper-ventilating was just a sign of his spath hyper-sexuality or was it part of the love bombing – trying to play on what he perceived as a lack of self-confidence in myself in bed? Then he’d do this rolling eye trick to capture me further.

Just another question I’ll never know the answer to.

I wondered reading your post lifeisgood if your ex had taken something which caused the hyperventilation? Amyl nitrate, or viagra? Or as you say possibly just bizarre theatrics

It sounds to me like the sex statistics about psychopaths are very over rated. I experienced nothing exciting in the beginning with the sex. All of the lovebombig was psychological and emotional manipulation. And then the sex turned into necrophilia. I had to play dead while he used me as a receptacle…raped me.

Betsybugs,

I agree that it is over rated. I am sorry about your experience being violated. That word “receptacle” still bothers me ever since my spath ex-boyfriend said it.

Sex with the sp was very good for me in the beginning. He didn’t seem like my narcissistic exhusband who wasn’t too interested in anything but himself. Sex was intoxicating and it accompanied the lovebombing. I was so in need for contact and love, I soaked it up. He kept up his campaign for about 6 months until I agreed to move in with him. After that things went downhill. I started to realize the depravity and the porn addiction. We had talked of marriage and all that goes with it, but after I moved in, he mentioned that he didn’t believe in marriage because it was a form of monogamy and he didn’t want to be monogamous. I was flabbergasted because this was totally opposite what he preached before I moved in. I was turned off and didn’t really want to be touched by him for a while, but I was afraid that if he didn’t get sex from me, he would go elsewhere. I did everything he asked sexually and it got worse and worse until he told me that he was going to be doing some swinging. When I told him no to the swinging, he cut me off sex completely. I was beside myself. Now I know that no matter what I did, he was going to cheat on me but at the time I was desperate to keep things together.
Another responder mentioned about the “smile”. I got it too, and even after a year away from him, I feel ill when I think of it. He used to get that smile when he hurt me sexually and emotionally. When I finally told him I was leaving, I allowed him to take me to bed one more time and he got that smile.

To me the sp had lots of sex appeal and he used it liberally on me. When we met, he was clean cut and very respectable looking. About a year later, he had gained about 40 lbs, grew a nasty goatee and put his hair into dreadlocks (I had mine in dreads, but I don’t have a receding hairline so they didn’t look ridiculous lol). Wasn’t the look I was looking for in a mate, but since I loved him, I accepted him for who he was and didn’t harp at him for his appearance.
After we had been together for about 6 months he started to tell me that all kinds of women were giving him the “f-me” eyes. At first, I thought he was joking, but he was serious! He truly thought that every woman was attracted to him. I just give my head a shake and thank whatever power that gave me the strength to leave that nasty dreadlocked piece of self propelled human refuse.

I have been sp free for 1 year now. I sometimes miss the sex, but then I remember all the stuff attached to it and realize that I’m better off with the type of love that comes from a battery!

SKgirl, I hear you on a few things here for sure. I always felt like if I didn’t have sex with him that he would stray. We had sex every day. And if we went more than a few days he would become upset(even though I was looking after his child full time and had never been a mother) He would always say that he’s never gone longer than 3 days without sex….it put a ton of pressure on me. Separate vacations made things very stressful for me. He also said that all of these girls want to “F&#K him” and give him the “eyes” right in front of me???? I like you thought he would change and not cheat on me. I never found any instances but it for sure would have happened.

I’ve recently started seeing someone and we have just started a sexual relationship. I’ve been afraid of this because I am afraid of feeling disrespected. Once we did I noticed that he was SO respectful, so gentle, and I for once felt SO calm and comfortable…. I was worried I would be craving the intense addictive sex I had with my exspath. I wasn’t. I enjoyed it.

Saskgirl,

My ex-husband (another spath) was also a porn addict/sex addict in addition to drugs. He sold himself as this wonderfully evolved human being who had overcome alcohol and drugs to anybody who would listen. It was all a lie. He also gained weight and stopped showering or even brushing his teeth. I mean, no showers for two weeks…. That is, until a 20 year old intern came to work at his office. He was perfectly groomed for a whole week.

My spath ex-boyfriend did the lovebombing, instant soulmate, controlling, jealous thing. I never got around to figuring out if he had any issues with sex or porn addiction. But I wouldn’t be surprised. He often announced that he was so satisfied in our new relationship that he didn’t even need to “take care of himself.” I never asked him about this topic. He just brought it up during one of his many speeches about how I was the best lover ever (of course, he nagged at me to say the same thing about him). I found this a bit scary, because it made me remember how my porn/sex addict ex-husband used to carry on about not taking care of himself either. The truth was that was what he did every chance he got, even in his sister’s bathroom on a family visit in the middle of the afternoon. He accidentally left the volume too loud on his iPhone and for a few seconds you could hear loud porn noises through the bathroom door.

It’s all lies on top of lies. And there’s nothing sexy about a liar and a user. As I said before, they can put on a good show for a while. Eventually, the truth comes out.

I have to agree with the first line of the article, “erotic”. But like everyone else, he bombed me almost from day one in trying to get me in bed and I didn’t realize till now that even though he would back off a little when I would say no, what he did continue doing was wrong and his conquest. I also didn’t realize that the more I said no, the more he was determined to “conquer” me.

One thing I do find funny now though. After a very very short period of time, “things” didn’t work for him any more. Because of that I felt bad about myself and thought I didn’t interest him anymore. It wasn’t that at all, it was him!

One night he started yelling at me that I was cheating because I wasn’t giving him any and after 3 hours I finally got extremely angry and screamed at him that it was because he reminded me of over cooked spaghetti and I liked things more in the “uncooked” category!

I’ve now found out from his exs’ after me that it happened with them too, unless they let him get sadistic rough. 🙁

Wendy,

I found a hidden prescription for an erectile dysfunction drug at my boyfriend’s condo. He never admitted that he took it. I think things weren’t working for him so well for a few years. So he secretly took that stuff. But he hid it, of course, and he lied when I brought up the subject of ED drugs.

I read that sociopaths may go into remission at around 50 years of age. That is also right around the time many men experience ED and a change in hormones. It’s kind of odd.

Everything is a tool for them to manipulate/use/dump victims

Saskgirl and Wendy

Thanks for the laugh…Love from a battery is better than the “love” from a spath any day. Bob is better. No drama.

Wendy…uncooked rather than cooked spaghetti. BAHHAHAHAHA.

Wendy..
Uncooked spaghetti!!! ROTFL!!!

After I broke up with the sp, I started becoming friends with his “crazy, evil ex” who wasn’t so crazy, nor was she evil. We started trading war wounds and there were lots of scary stories.

The sp has his “junk” pierced and wouldn’t ever take it out. Both of us have scarring from that experience. The sp choked his ex gf one night till she passed out, then he had his way with her. When I was with him, I was trying to find an antidepressant that worked for me and some would knock me right out. He would wait until I was unconscious then have sex with me. Brings meaning to Betsybugs necrophilia comment (which I loved by the way!)

After all of these incidents (and they are the family approved ones) I am surprised that I stayed. He had me hooked so deeply. I couldn’t understand how someone who was so loving and attentive in the beginning could become so callous. I cannot prove that he cheated on me, but I do know that he was in active conversation with many women on Adult Friend Finder and there were many times when he couldn’t account for his actions (and how dare I ask…)

Unfortunately, the sp has ruined me for having any type of intimate relations. I have been single for a year and although I do miss sex, the thought of being hurt again keeps me away. I am so terribly afraid that I cannot have a “normal” sex life. Batteries are definitely a girl’s best friend.

That’s definitely one of the worse things of meeting the spath, the mistrust towards others afterwards.

I second that Catherine! I’ve taken such small steps with the man currently interested in me, that I’m surprised he’s stuck around(small steps for the past 6 months). He has met my spath(by accident) and so when I try to apologize for how I am, he’s so sweet about it and keeps re-assuring me that he understands and is willing to do anything to prove he is not the same. Then fusses that I need to stop apologizing lol!

When they met it was on accident, the spath showed up 3 hours late for pick up and we were supposed to be going to breakfast. I hadn’t said anything to this man about my troubles. When the spath was gone, all I heard in between me apologizing, was, “your physical reaction and his mouth says enough for me to know that THING is psychotic!”

I became more paranoid: I’m not dating anyone without verifying how his past relationships ended…

🙂 yup. This one brought his ex-wife to meet me. He’s the first I’ve even tried to have interest in, since I left my spath early 2010

OMG! I am so glad you addressed this topic. I have been away from my ex- spathe for only about 3 weeks. I actually crave to be with him, and get so mad at myself for feeling that way. I lived with him for about 3 months
I don’t know if I agree about the 50’s thing. We are both 56 and he had an appetite probably like a 20 something.
I have not posted my whole story but hope too soon. What do u think about warning the next victim to stalking and order of protection. One for each ex.

Thanks to everyone who discussed the aftermath of being with a spath, how hard it is to trust again when you’ve been deceived to such a mind-bending level, betrayed, manipulated and abandoned.

Cheating can be a form of abandonment, whether it is on the internet or in real life. That’s another trauma for those who are involved with spaths. I think we can love and trust again. It just required patience.

Wow, Wendy, I’d like to meet a man like that! I was talking to a friend today who had a bad experience recently with dating after her divorce from a sociopath. She was dating a guy casually and didn’t hear from him for about two weeks. Then he texted her one day, asking if they could skip the dinner and a movie, and he could just come to her house for sex. OMG. She said it just seems like there aren’t any good guys out there who aren’t sociopaths or married cheaters, and we’re really better off just living with our cats and having good female friends in our lives. It sounds like there may be a few genuine, loving and sincere guys left. Good luck with yours!

Sex was infrequent and on his schedule.

I didn’t find that uncomfortable. I went to a very strict, Catholic, convent school. The nuns in high school would always tell us that boys that we dated would buy us a soda and spend the rest of the evening trying to squeeze it out of us; these were evil boys. Sex was not even brought up at home, as my mom was the victim of sexual abuse by clergy when she was a young child.

The spath was one of the most straight laced people I ever knew. We were invited to a reception/party at a professor’s home during law school. A fellow student told an off color joke, the spath grabbed me and herded me out the door, no apologies to the host. There was no hand holding, arm around the shoulder, or God forbid, kissing. The spath was logical in everything he did, touchy feely is not logical. He would recoil if anyone inadvertently touched him; teacher, classmate, stranger on public transport, sales clerk.

Sex is a tool-The shocking part.

Here is this flat broke, unemployed guy that suddenly cons a broker into giving him control of 2 million dollars. What can he do with the money? He can’t buy things, too many unanswerable questions; he can’t have anything in his name, same reason; he can’t disappear, his con would be exposed and he would be tracked.

I know he researched the possibilities long and hard. To quote the spath “I found the world of escorts”.

Yes, it is a world of sex, but more importantly, to him, it was a world of no questions asked, no background checks, nom de computer screen the accepted, no fear of calls to the family or anyone else. Just money followed by acceptance.

In the beginning he hired these girls to teach him sex. As he became more confident there were two different girls at different times in the same day, 2 girls at once, 3 or 4 girls at once, 2 girls him and another guy, one girl him and another guy, male and male interaction and any other variation you can imagine. From July 03 to October 08 the frequency was, at the minimum, 3 times a week, sometimes 8, and anywhere in between. There were frequent sex parties. All done before the evening rush and never on weekends; again questions would be raised. The cost, more than 5 grand a week, sometimes, much more than double.

In the basement, I found a piece of loose paneling, behind which was hidden a tall pile of sex toys/clothing. At the bottom were innocuous things like vibrators, as the stack grew, the items became less and less main stream and clothing started to appear, at the top were S and M and other devices.

The spath wanted more than sex. He wanted to snare these women. In the early days, it was cyber stalking them; finding out their real names and jobs, yes many escorts do work in the real world. He was looking for a special girl, one he could dominate as well as a girl that would give him ‘prestige’ in this nether world. He eventually found one. He set her up in an apartment and all that went with it. She was still was an escort and he was still seeing other escorts. She however declared her love, and yes she did love him. He became part of her family, her kids, her parents. He became complacent with her, he trusted her enough to stop giving her cash, but rather stolen checks to deposit. They even opened up a house of ill repute in “their” apartment. She made the mistake however of believing that he loved her. Oh, he said he did, even posted it. He had entire communities believing he loved her. From her he could be lionized by these people because she was a well known escort. Then she became clingy, her big mistake.

She passed away and the spath found out that her death was a very valuable thing. He could and did gain sympathy from this sub world, because of her he was lionized even more. What these people didn’t know was that he was trolling 2 days after her burial just in a different place. Her family, believing that he he loved her, still welcomed him to drop over her parents house whenever he wanted a to talk or have meal. They did not know what their daughter was doing or how they met.

His true motive came out in a email a little after her death, he missed the apartment she was willing to put in her name. He needed another gal to do the same. He eventually found one, a much younger woman, that was well known to his dead “love”. He even ingratiated himself to her family. Did she think he was a great sex partner; one of the more memorable texts from her says that he should steal some batteries from my mother’s house for her vibrator.

He became so sure of his status in this sub world that he gave other women and men obviously stolen and forged checks. These women didn’t see a great lover, they saw money; the men saw someone who would not rat them out.

Sex, like everything and anything else in life, was only a means to an end for the spath. Was he good in bed, I doubt the escorts would tell.

I do know the escorts wanted school papers done, computer help, fancy handbags, meals, wine, clothes, phones, gifts for their kids, tuition, and cash. I am not sure all of them cared about the quality of sex.

In case you are wondering how I know, the spath, up to a point, actually kept very well protected spreadsheets; I have the email, texts, statements, etc.. I know about the meals, hotels, plane tickets, luxury gifts and more. The dead can no longer keep their hidden life secret, especially when the funds are stolen.

That is interesting, I am an escort and I have come across a few socios that have tried to win me over. On occasion, I fall for it for just a few days and then realize what the hell is going on and I berate them bpd style. If submissiveness is a prerequisite for dating a socio, then that def isn’t me. I’ve actually done dominatrix work as well. Anthey usually leave me alone once they realize I’m not buying their bullshit and their game won’t take. Its that simple. As far as the first comment, it is my belief that most males have socio traits. Some more than others. Men in general are narc, selfish and hypersexual. As well as dishonest and cold. That’s why I’m a misandrist and I’m glad I am. I can spot the bs from a mile away.

Really? All psychopaths have high levels of testosterone? Can you provide a reputable link to a scientific study that says that?

According to the following authors only 1 study has tried to uncover if there’s a link between testosterone and psychopathy:

‘Stalenheim et al. (1998) found testosterone levels to bepositively correlated with the impulsive and antisocial behavior aspects of psychopathy, but not with psychopathy as awhole. A study of youth with callous-unemotional traits, which are thought to be similar to psychopathic traits inadulthood, found no difference in testosterone levels in these youth compared to control participants (Loney, Butler,Lima, Counts, & Eckel, 2006).’

http://www.academia.edu/876030/Increased_testosterone-to-cortisol_ratio_in_psychopathy

Here’s some snippets from a 2011 study, with link, that indicate (from a very small sample size of 178 people recruited from temporary employment agencies and exhibiting a wide range of psychopathic traits and assessed for psychopathy by graduate students) that there is NO correlation between testosterone and psychopathy. The study conclusion:

‘In a large sample of adults, no significant relationships were observed between psychopathy and baseline testosterone or cortisol, or cortisol reactivity to a stressor. Furthermore, there were no significant interactions between these variables. Although we did not observe a relationship between psychopathy and the ratio of baseline testosterone to cortisol, predicted by Terburg et al. (2009), we did observe a significant relationship between psychopathy and the ratio of baseline testosterone to cortisol reactivity.’

I include a larger snippet:

‘ Results showed that psychopathy scores were associated with an increased ratio of testosterone (baseline) to cortisol responsivity to a stressor. …

However, only one study has tested therelationship between testosterone and psychopathy in adults. Stalenheim et al. (1998) found testosterone levels to be positively correlated with the impulsive and antisocial behavior aspects of psychopathy, but not with psychopathy as a whole….

If the balance between these two hormones is changed so that there is more testosterone relative to cortisol actingon the amygdala, an individual may become less fearful, and more reward seeking and aggressive (van Honk, Harmon-Jones, Morgan, & Schutter, 2010; van Honk & Schutter, 2006); these traits are associated with Facets 2 (Affective), 3(Lifestyle), and 4 (Antisocial) of psychopathy, respectively…

In sum, a high testosterone/cortisol ratio may enhance sensitivity to reward relative to punishment,promote approach rather than avoidance reactions, and reduce the emotional input from the amygdala to the orbito frontal cortex that is critical for empathy and recognizing cues that a decision may be risky or harmful. It may also impair thea bility to regulate emotion and aggression. Together, it is hypothesized that these mechanisms may predispose toward psychopathy (Terburg, et al., 2009; van Honk & Schutter, 2006). However, a full understanding of this relationship remains to be elucidated. Based on the mechanisms described, we hypothesized that the ratio of testosterone to cortisolwould be associated with psychopathy, and that the strongest relationships would be with Facets 2, 3, and 4.

In a large sample of adults, no significant relationships were observed between psychopathy and baselinetestosterone or cortisol, or cortisol reactivity to a stressor. Furthermore, there were no significant interactions between these variables. Although we did not observe a relationship between psychopathy and the ratio of baseline testosterone tocortisol, predicted by Terburg et al. (2009), we did observe a significant relationship between psychopathy and the ratio of baseline testosterone to cortisol reactivity. Individuals scoring higher in psychopathy had a higher ratio of baselinetestosterone to cortisol reactivity; this accounted for 5% of the variance in psychopathic traits. This effect was only truefor individuals with high baseline levels of testosterone. These findings highlight the importance of a multi-systemapproach in hormone research.’

http://www.academia.edu/876030/Increased_testosterone-to-cortisol_ratio_in_psychopathy

NoLongerShocked
Just wanted to validate you. Sometimes you will see posts as if the theory was accepted fact. You discuss one of them and you provide the source. (in other theories, it’s the opposite, that low T leads to a certain body type and psychopathy. They used the example of the 40 yr old man living in his mother’s basement.)

I recall someone writing that left handedness was an indicator of sociopathy, which is not true. There are others who said that sociopath have a certain smell about them. Again, any correlation is NOT causation. It doesn’t even stand up to simple math, but people will get very upset if disagreed with.

I used to feel concerned that new people seeking info would accept these opinions as fact. I felt compelled to be responsible, to keep left handed people from being a target. Now I’ve come to accept that as lf members heal, they will realize that making such statements come from an emotional need and not from someone stating a valid rational fact.

My ex psychopath is left handed, so I have been interested in the correlation. This link goes to an article that references empirical studies that found a correlation between left handedness and psychopathy. http://www.crimetimes.org/01b/w01bp7.htm

It doesn’t connote any kind of causation, and it doesn’t mean every left handed person is a psychopath or vice versa, just that the traits appear in the same person more often than chance.

My ex psychopath had absolutely no sense of smell, which also has been empirically found to correlate with psychopathy. It makes sense given the parts of the physical brain that govern smell and empathy.

I don’t think he has srabismus, which is also correlated to psychopathy, and I have noticed strabismus in the photos of a number of well known psychopaths.

With respect to what causes what, consider that being a long distance runner correlates with the trait of having well developed leg muscles. The conclusion that having well developed leg muscles causes long distance running is wrong. The opposite is the truth.
It has been shown that the brain and certain parts of the brain become more or less developed with use or disuse. If a person practices kindness he develops that part of the brain, same as practicing music will develop that part of the brain.

After living the nightmare of a sociopath, I understand the need to make sense of nonsense. The problem I have is that attributing certain human characteristics to evil is that it’s a slippery slope. There were death camps filled with those deemed evil. Millions died. Many came still remember the misery of children who were emotionally destroyed b/c they were southpaws, bullied by schoolmates, and judged by communities as EVIL simply b/c they were lefthanded. In a little older history, how many were killed b/c they were “scientifically” proven witches by “witch finders”?

I usually have a sensitive nose, but during my many sinus infections, many brought on during times of terrible grief and much crying, I’ve lost my sense of smell. Lots of us kids hung out together b/c we shared a horrible family home, we were the abused. Many had hearing loss and vision issues b/c of the beatings, not b/c they were evil or predisposed to psychopathy.

And I can not forget that my ex used “empirical evidence” in his smear campaigns against me as his “proof” to encourage people to physically assault me, help him cheat on me, hide assets so I had no financial ability to hire an attorney or leave him.

This judgment of people as psychopaths by some authority figure based on physical attribute is a VERY VERY dangerous slippery slope. I’ll accept behavior as an indicator or certain brain scans, but not physical characteristics. That kind of thinking is used too often against the innocent.

I agree with your assessment.

I haven’t read of someone being labelled a psychopath based on the correlations discussed in this post by a social scientist. I perceive that properly diagnosed psychopaths are being studied in many ways to try to understand the phenomena. I have never read of anyone labeling someone a psychopath based on one of the traits that show up more often than in the non psychopathic population.

The abuse you describe sounds pretty horrible. Spaths use all kinds of nonsensical word salad fake ‘logic’ to ‘justify’ blaming and accusing their victims. Typical crazy making torture. Reminds me of the slogan the Nazis posted over one of the death camps “Arbeit macht frei,” Work makes one free. Insinuating that forced labor leads to freedom, so the Nazis are doing good by forcing the prisoners into slave labor, or whatever. Calling evil good and good evil is condemned in the Bible (Isaiah 5:20).

For those still in the middle of their nightmare and wondering…I should have noted… all the carp that I thought was permanent such as memory problems, loss of smell from constant sinus infections, depression, paranoia etc etc ALL went away after I left my husband BUT… I HAD to ACTIVELY pursue healing. Waiting for it didn’t make it happen. I had to pursue healthy living. Healing is as individual as each of us are.

Please don’t think that misery continues. THEY destroy us, but WE can recover/heal b/c WE are not THEM. YAhooie for that.

Thank you, NotWhatHeSaid of me, for your validation. And thanky you, AnnettePK, for your other examples.

My perspective is that I was doing a lot of research on Thomas Sheridan. As far as I can tell he started the myth about Ps having high testosterone levels(but I might be completely wrong). And I was researching him because there seems to be a lot of unquestioning acceptance of stuff he writes in his books, even though (and I haven’t read them, only read ABOUT them) he apparently doesn’t provide references. Google books is usually useful for checking what authors have and haven’t said but both ‘Puzzling people’ and ‘Defeated demons’ have no searchable content and right now I’m skint so can’t buy them. 🙂

The available evidence that I’ve found so far seems credible and indicates that TS has many online identities, and in those identities he’s foul-mouthed and misogynistic. I also had no idea that he was the founder of PsychopathFree, and that he left very suddenly. I can understand PF not wanting to wash its dirty linen in public but what surprises me is that other websites dealing with Ps don’t discuss HIM. Instead his books (and some of the things he says) seem to be unquestioningly accepted.

Nolonger,

After reading a couple of things by Thomas Sheridan, I decided not to get and use information from him.

Have you read any studies that indicate that testosterone suppresses oxytocin? I’ve seen articles that indicate this is accurate but don’t point to a particular study conducted on this issue. If it’s true, it could explain why rape offenders are more frequently men than women.

Donna-

I’ve seen reports that testosterone is known to suppress oxytocin. It would seem logical that some people with high levels of testosterone would have character disorder as a result, since oxytocin has been linked to empathy.

That doesn’t mean that all athletes and males are disordered, but it shouldn’t come as a surprise to us when a world class athlete, like Oscar Pistorius, fires his gun at his girlfriend through a closed bathroom door, or a football star, like Ray Rice, drags his unconscious fiance out of an elevator by her foot after punching her lights out.

Thank you Donna for finally putting words to the bizarre behaviors that Ive experienced first hand. I’ve asked you previously about the shark eye stares of these people and was wondering if anyone can put a scientific name to this physical manifestation. It scared me, and now I know why he always kissed me, in the beginning of our relationship with his eyes wide open. His responses to me were text book. Im not so concerned with the wording or phrasing of these signature manifestations but am more amazed and astonished at the signs and symptoms of this pathology. I actually saw his whole eye turn black. I thought at first he was a God, or demon, but am realizing that alot of this was my own gut giving me clues, or red flags as to the danger I was in. I cannot express my gratefulness for opening my eyes to this most bizarre relationship that I was in. NEVER heard of this in my life, it is like you met him firsthand, textbook. This is my first post and my thoughts and feelings are new confused and jumbled. Thanks for the insight. I took it upon myself as being flawed and unloveable but now I know better. Hes been incarcerated for six months and Im finally starting to heal but am still in denial about this man, wanting desperately his love.

Your desire for his love is the result of your addiction to him.

Romantic love is an addiction. Your dopamine levels and serotonin levels have been affected by your relationship, and the withdrawal creates cravings, just like if you were addicted to heroin.

Knowing that your desire for him has a chemical component can help you resist the feelings they generate. Also, being in the company of supportive friends and family can help you ease away from longing by supplying you with similar brain chemistry, but from a different source. Be careful, however, non-supportive friends or family can drive you into deeper feelings of depression.

Mine, I believe is a narcissist ans sociopath. I do not believe he has high testosterone. He has has problems with soem things for awhile.

I thought I found my soulmate but it quickly went sour with drinking snd verbal abuse.

We had a lot of sex in the beginning that I really loved. We still have sex a lot now but I dont think it’s that great. A lot of it was because it was excitig but a much larger part of it was that I believed he loved me. Now I know he cannot.

He will be abusive and deny me sex. Then I crave it because I thought it would help lead to us communicating again or lead to fixing issues. If I dont want him to touch me, he will rape me in my sleep then toss me away. No communication. For many days sometimes. If he gets the clue that its not working and I still want to deal with the real issue, then he will discard me all together. Eitber through complete silent treatment or leaving because he is “mad” and goes to a hotel. He will go to a bar too but swear nothing “happened”.

The last time he did this I made it very clear I would leave. Whike he is gone. We have a child.

He hasnt done it since but I realize it could happen.

Sometimes I really feel like I am dying and my life is over. I have fibromyalgia now and ny counselor diagnosed me with PTSD, anxiety, and depression.

I cant take any medicine because he has a pill problem and when I brought it to light with family, he accused me of being the one with the actual problem. They no longer communicate with us. He is a very good deceiver.

So now I just eat healthy, work out again, and take lots of suppliments. I dont trust him at all ans believe anything I might take would be used against me. “She is off her meds, she is crazy..” etc.

He sounds like a classic spath. It sounds like you have come to understand how evil and dangerous he is. He has caused you a lot of pain, and gave you PTSD, anxiety and depression. Is there any way you and your child can get away from him? That is the best way to recover from the harm spaths cause.

‘Spaths are not slaves to their testosterone-fueled desires. They are quite capable of controlling, even withholding, sex when it suits their purpose’.

I was with a spath who would withhold.

I saw a psychologist in the 80’s about this relationship. He did not say this guy was a spath. He missed it, not knowledgeable about psychopathy.

Sex with the first psychopath was very good. It was very satisfying. The sexual chemistry with a recent psychopath was very rough.

Hi, I’ve never written about this before. I am ashamed. I was friends with this guy from work. Just calling on the phone, him telling me about his wife who was in and addiction centre he was left with his small son, we got on really well. She came out of rehab and abandoned him and his son only seeing the child when she felt like it. So he said. We chatted like this for about a year and then I began to have feeling for him. We met up, had sex which was fantastic, this went on for about 6 months and I fell in love. He said he did to, but nothing changed. I was never introduced to his family or friends, we would always go away where no one could bump into us. Anyway, this went on and on. Two years! I’d leave and go back. Nothing ever changed. On the 6th of Feb this year I got a phone call in work from one of his work colleagues saying that he was sick and that his wife was up all night with him, and she being due their second baby!! I couldn’t hear or breathe, I called him and he said “Yeah” when I confronted him. I left then and there. Was so strong. No contact. 3 months I cried and pulled myself back to some sort of sanity. Then the mails started, and I caved and met him for coffee. He said the child wasn’t his, he was leaving her (even though she was still living with him) I fell for it, then had sex with him again. But I can’t do it. I’ve crossed a line I never thought I would. I’ve betrayed myself. I’ve tried the no contact but I always unlock him, I never initiate contact, but always reply. I feel strong enough to handle him. But I’m not. Please help me.

There are the 3 D’s- Don’t see him. Drink water and Do something else. It would be good to post a topic for feedback.

Josie,

It sounds like you have come to understand that he lied to you and manipulated you. Spaths often leave their victims feeling shame, but the truth is that they choose shameful evil wrong behavior. You did not know he was lying; therefore you believed him. It sounds like you have taken steps to get away from him since you recognized that he is not who he said he is, and that he is harmful to you. Victims often go back to the abuser when he feigns remorse and makes false promises. It took me a long time to finally get it that my ex psychopath never cared, lied about everything, and just wanted to use me.

It sounds like you know that getting away from him is the best thing you can do for yourself. You sound like a strong person to have been successful in not contacting him for 3 months despite the painful grief you experienced. Betrayal is unbelievably painful. It’s a horror that someone could be so heartless and evil.

It sounds like you know that you are successful in not contacting him. It sounds like you know your weakness is likely to be when he contacts you. With a good understanding of your goal (maintaining no contact) and your potential weakness in caving when he contacts you, you can choose some strategies to avoid caving, like the things Sunnygal suggested. Not having any contact protects you from being harmed by him, which is what will always happen if you do allow him access to you. Blocking his number, changing your number, changing your email, are things you can do so that you will not even know whether he is trying to contact you. You will get your power, your life, and yourself back. Spaths tend to cycle back to their former victims, even years later, to see if they can exploit them for something they want. You might plan ahead what you will do if you see him in a public place somewhere, or if he does manage to get through to you.

Here’s some links to information that may help you maintain no contact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4uKGp_qvPE
https://www.truelovescam.com/sociopaths-no-contact/
https://lovefraud.com/are-you-a-target/leaving-a-sociopath/no-contact/

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