Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a woman who we’ll call “Callista.” I’ll have some comments at the end.
This is yet ANOTHER email from a woman who realized she had been with a sociopath. In my case, it’s been for 8 years. He fits the bill on all counts, except that while his finances are always a mess, he met me when I was coming out of a divorce and mine were a mess too. So he didn’t see me as a “mark” he could use and swindle.
He is now paying me support and believe it or not he was not only impeccable about paying it to his ex-wife, he is also impeccable about paying me. This confuses me because he lacks the trait of screwing EVERYONE. Don’t get me wrong, there is a trail of foreclosures, faulting on bank loans and people he’s never paid back.
He moved from me and was immediately living with someone else. Denying it all along. I have done enough reading to know the traits and I know pity is one of their favorites. I have never sat by when I discovered something. I was just never looking. I trusted him. Sigh. He came over and I told him I was saying goodbye and that I would not be speaking, or seeing him again. I told him of what I read and learned about his pathology. He came over angry because he had promised one arrangement and as usual denied he made the deal (even though it was recorded in a text message. “That’s not what I meant,” he said.) He hates when I hold him accountable, as they all do.
I told him I had been reading about his pathology. Trying to understand him and how my own pathology fits into his. I told him about sociopaths. If you have read as much as you think you have, you know there is a brain connection. He had fallen as a young child, head first into a concrete basement (they had just poured it and removed the stairs). He also had epilepsy as a child and I would be dollars to donuts, it was in the frontal lobe.
When I explained all the traits, he really looked sad. He once said to me, “I may be a bastard, but it doesn’t mean I don’t have feelings.” As we know, this still only means he has feelings for himself and no other. But he was acknowledging his lack of relationships and admitting to the traits and asked me what he can do about it. I told him that based on what I read there is nothing he can do, but that they can very effectively diagnose him and that the first thing he should do is get an evaluation done. He reached out to me and said, “It’s not my fault. You’ve given me something to think about.”
I just left for 3 weeks. The “goodbye” conversation was when he was coming over to pick up the dog. He then said, “let’s not talk and give me a chance to read up on this and then when you get back we can talk”. And THEN he said, “If I admitted to all the women I was involved with, do you think we could put it all behind us and move forward together?” Here is my thought on that. On the one hand, my own wishful thinking is thinking that perhaps there is a part of him that understands there is an issue. Perhaps he does have a conscience? His perfect record of paying support indicates he has some decency. Or perhaps he knew the EXACT thing and the ONLY thing he could say to me in that parking lot, (as he left for his new girlfriend’s apartment), that would stop me from fully disengaging. He used the pity card and he used the intimacy he knows we seem to experience so deeply together.
As you can see, I’m struggling with this. What’s real? What’s not real? Based on what I have read, I have to conclude that the entire exchange is ENTIRELY false. I know so much of it is, but is it really false to the core? Can he perhaps have a part of him that can prevail and nurture the part of him that does have goodness. He is incredibly kind to our animals. He’s kill anyone who would harm then in ANY way.
Don’t get me wrong, this man has done the unthinkable. He has crossed every decent line there is. I know the answer for sociopaths to “can they be saved?” is “no.”
Ok down to the question. Did he simply use his cunning ability to do and say the only and exact thing that would stop me from cutting that final thread? Or are there some who are sociopaths to a lesser degree? I know he is weary of all the secrets and lies and the life he leads. I can see it. He just doesn’t know how to get out. It’s all he’s known. I had no idea, until I learned the trail of women from his past and how many he continued to carry on with and keep “on the line” for years and years. So am I just another he’s trying to add to the “back burner” in case his latest doesn’t work out?
I would NEVER entertain reconnecting with him unless he came to me and said, “I want to get evaluated and I want to come clean to you.” Without that, I wouldn’t set one foot near him. So what do I do if he DOES say that? My feeling is I wait to see what the evaluation says and how “clean” the “coming clean” truly is. At the end of the day, I’d bet my life he’d never do it. It’s too much of a leap from where he has been for so many years. I don’t think he is capable, and while I’m spending my time writing this email, he’s having a fun-filled night with a new victim who “can’t believe how lucky” she is, and thinks she’s died and gone to heaven.
And there’s the last question. Do I try and warn her? I wish someone had tried with me. I am guessing she won’t believe me, but I would say things that would stick in her mind and acknowledge that I can understand why she would not want to believe what I am saying. He’s already cheated on her. I think that’s the one thing I could say that might make her stop. Although he’s SO good at lying, he’d convince her otherwise. But when things turn bad ”¦ and they will ”¦ perhaps she’ll remember what I said and know there is someone she can seek out to relate to.
So all this rambling is so typical of what these people do to our lives, our souls and our minds.
I am an intelligent, attractive, capable, kind woman. While he told me how worthless I was throughout, I managed to save my core and know that I am of value. But guess what? I stopped loving him ”¦ I was FREE of him ”¦ I didn’t even think of him. Then one day I came home from a grueling business trip. I was tired and lonely and he brought the dog home and sat on the sofa we’d sat on for so many years and we just talked. It was such a comfort. And that turned into a very intense hour in bed. He left and I was a mess. He said he felt connected to me and then went on to keep me twisting in the wind.
I knew he was living with someone. I knew the reason he couldn’t just spend time with me was because he couldn’t figure his way around not being accounted for. I could go on. I started this, wanting to outline a scenario and ask a simple question. I allowed myself to go on, because I think it demonstrates what happens to people like me. Oh, did I mention that the weekend I had hoped we would spend together and he messed me around ”¦ I was so desperate to get him to show me he cared that I took a bottle of pills and sent him a text and told him, thinking he’d “come to my rescue” and guess what he did? NOTHING! I would have died if not for stumbling out of my car (I had parked somewhere) and someone thought I was drunk and called the police. He basically left me for dead. Incredible.
Even more incredible is that I would ever speak to him again. And yet even more confusing is me explaining to him that someone who is healthy does not do what he did in that situation. Someone who is healthy does not lie to someone who almost died and say “I came by to see you” ”¦ “I called the police” ”¦ “I called the hospital.” I knew he had done none of those and I pointed out to him how only a sociopath would do something like this and his answer was “I need help.” DAMN HIM! Why couldn’t he have just been a jerk and denied it and argued with me. No he said the only that would not allow me to truly disconnect from him. Or does he truly realize how empty he is and is there something worth saving? Ugh. I’m exhausted.
I wrote this for my benefit. I wrote it for the benefit of anyone else who is going through an experience with a sociopath and has one JUST like mine.
I’ll let you know what happens. My bet is that he doesn’t give me the “material” to work with and I’ve basically just delayed my road to recovery by 3 weeks, because between now and when I return, I’ll be thinking, “what if he comes to me and says he’ll get help?” What if he does want to leave all the shallow relationships behind? What if I am really the only person he has ever loved (to the extent he can love)?
I have never allowed someone to abuse me the way he did. I see through people darn fast and I cut them off. But not this guy. This guy has got his hand on my heart and although I thought I was free, I am not. More work to do. More work to do.
Analysis and comments
Callista,
Your e-mail is a superb example of how confusing it can be to be involved with a sociopath. When it’s good, it’s very good—but there’s so much deceit, game-playing and crazy-making. We’re torn between wanting the good times to return, wanting to help and wanting wholeness for ourselves.
First, an answer to one of your questions. Yes, it is possible for sociopaths to be not all bad. Sociopathy encompasses a range of behaviors. In fact, Dr. Robert Hare’s Psychopathy Checklist-Revised includes 20 traits, and an individual is scored on each separate trait. So it is possible for someone to score high on something like “deceitful and manipulative” and not as high on “poor behavior controls.”
It is possible for one sociopath to love animals, while another sociopath tortures them. My ex-husband, James Montgomery, loved animals, and was always bringing home exotic pets. Many sociopaths are corporate executives, and have enough money to pay their bills. Your ex has chosen to pay you support, at least for the moment. Does that mean he is capable of becoming the man that you deserve? Not necessarily.
Something to think about
You told him what you’ve learned about sociopathy. This, you said was his reaction:
He reached out to me and said, “It’s not my fault. You’ve given me something to think about.”
And then comes your question:
Did he simply use his cunning ability to do and say the only and exact thing that would stop me from cutting that final thread?
The answer could very well be yes. Sociopaths study their targets, and know exactly how to get the response that they want. Or, he could have had a glimmer of insight into his behavior. Some sociopaths do understand that they’re missing something in human interactions.
It is impossible to know what your ex intended. But either way, the relationship is not healthy for you. The best thing to do is look back at his behavior. He cheated on you. You almost committed suicide because of him, and he didn’t care. You can never trust this man to be there for you, to be faithful to you. Even if a childhood brain injury caused his condition—which I would doubt—his rehabilitation is not your responsibility.
So why are you having such a hard time cutting the final thread? It’s because sociopathic relationships act upon our brains in the same way as an addiction. Sociopaths instinctively know how to manipulate the human bonding process so that we become attached to them, and have a hard time breaking the attachment. For more on this, read the following article, especially the links at the end: Choose to break your addiction to a sociopath in 2010.
One of the components of the addiction is sex. Sex causes the release of a brain hormone called oxytocin. This hormone increases our sense of trust and bonding. This is why it’s important not to have sex with a sociopath when you’re trying to break off the relationship. Sex makes it more difficult for you to leave.
Warn the next victim
Finally, you asked if you should try to warn the next victim. This is a topic of much debate here on Lovefraud. Personally, I feel that if we can do it safely, we should at least try. Your analysis is correct. Maybe she won’t believe it now, but when things go bad, she may remember your words. For more discussion of this, including comments from other readers, see Should I warn the sociopath’s next victim?
Callista, you’re on the right track. You know the man has a problem. Your attachment to him is an addiction—this is not a moral judgment, just a statement of how the human bonding process works. Regardless of the degree of his pathology, or whether there is a chance for him to improve, for you he is bad news. Leave him in the dust.
Three times in my life I have been involved with a “toxic” person:
1) The most recent trolley dolly sociopath.
2) The first was a very professional and conservative appearing guy who was sexually compulsive.
3) The third was a now married “bisexual” guy named Paul, who is also now a father.
Paul dumped me in a blind sided way very similar to what the sociopath did. Another similarity, other than me ignoring all the red flags, was he did have me believing I had met a “soulmate…”
I did not see the Paul for about 4 years. Then, I ran into him in a gay club in New York City. It was an interesting situation as this third person was involved, a guy both of us had met there that night.
As the night drew on, I realized that any power Paul held over me was gone. I was not attracted to him anymore and part of me even wondered what I saw in him when we met. At around 3 AM, Paul said something very interesting to me, something I will never forget:
“Let’s go home.”
Not, “do you want to come back to my place…” or “let’s leave…”
He said “let’s go home.” Interesting tactic.
I left with the other guy. Not for spite, not for vengeance. I simply liked the other guy more.
I just want to thank everyone again for all the kind words of support. It’s amazing how many times we seem to need to hear them repeated, for them to get through. Almost like I’m hearing it in another language I don’t understand, and slowly, as it’s repeated, I start to understand the language and the message gets through. Love to you all, Callista
For everyone out there who is having a tough time with the “no contact rule”, I can tell you that there is NO question it leads to recovery. I am doing SO much better than I was and it’s mostly because I’m not being dragged back into the drama of “C”. Life with him was one big crisis after another. My life is becoming very even keel now. Once you are far enough away from the “addiction”, you remember what life was like without it and you remember who you are. Peace to you all.
Dear Callista,
Glad you are not giving in to the Siren Song and that you are recovering your balance.
I loved what you said about having to hear it over and over like it is in another language and finally the meaning seeps through and you get it! That is rather profound, really. A great way to describe it.
Keep on trucking on the road toward Healing! Keep on growing, and never quit growing, because when we quit growing, we start to die. ((((Hugs)))))
Hugs back to ya Oxy. I do so love your entries. So clever, so touching and so kind. Thanks again.
Here is ANOTHER one I love. It has helped me. I hope it helps someone else.
“If you are waiting to feel repulsion for the sociopath before you disengage, you may be waiting for a very long time. The pleasant memories may always be tied to the love you feel which will be activated when you slow down and give yourself time to think. You have to make a conscious decision to make better choices for yourself. This decision has to be independent of however you feel in the moment. The decision to break away and remain free is a leap of faith in the belief that your future can be better “sociopath free.” ”
I think it’s so import to have realistic expectations. I also really appreciate the one that talks about being thankful that you CAN feel. Even though it’s painful to think they never loved you, you CAN love. Be thankful for who you are and that you are capable of deep love. Imagine if you never knew what it was like to really love. To never know how it feels to love selflessly. How sad that would be. Sadder than the pain caused by learning you were never really loved by someone you thought you’d grow old with.
Allow me to explain the above further. The “pleasant memories” are really not pleasant memories about them. They are the memories of how much we loved them. How easy it was to put their needs ahead of ours. And how happy we were that we found someone who was so easy to be with and felt so good to sleep with each night. But that’s because that’s what we WANTED. That’s what we NEEDED. We wanted to believe that’s what we had found, so we could feel all those feelings we are so capable of feeling. Deep love. Deep care. Deep concern for the other. That IS love and WE are capable of feeling it.
If we are honest, we are not recalling how great they were because if we write down the balance sheet, they NEVER come out with as much good as bad. In fact the percentage isn’t even close. EVEN if you are weighing one for one. Which if you think about it, the one good thing they did, was never as good as how bad the one bad thing they did. So really they checks and balances should be weighed as 3 points for every bad and one for every good. But that kind of weighting of the system is never needed, because at one for one, on paper it’s so easy to see how they score.
It will never be easy to accept the demise of the relationship. For those of us that feel, the pain runs deep and last a long, long time. But I can tell you from where I am, as Donna wrote in her signed copy of her book to me, “you CAN recover”. I am and I will more and so will you! Just remember, it truly is a “leap of faith”. But if that doesn’t ring true for you, remember what Dr. Phil says, “How’s it workin’ for ya?” Really? How was it each and every time you engaged with your ex? It always ended with them hurting you. Lying to you. Cheating on you. Or just plain being unkind and hurtful. Contact can feel great. Until is doesn’t. And you can always count on the “until it doesn’t” part. So really, there is no choice. As Donna says, swallow hard and accept your loss and move on.
Peace and love to you all.
Dear Callista,
You are right on, GF! Every word you wrote is so true! I’mg ald you are doing well! Just keep your eyes on the goals!
Oxy you are the best. You are starting to feel like an old friend. How eloquent you are. How bang on. And (Thank God), how FUNNY. Thanks for checking in. Your words and the words of so many have given me strength. Don’t get me wrong, I STILL suffer. I’m nowhere near where I need to be yet. I loved this man with all I had and more. I just felt that if I abandoned him, he’s have nothing. I could see all there was to see in him. To this day, I truly believe he knows that. But he keeps himself so busy there isn’t a second for him to remember who I was to him. Besides, he’s managed to convince himself (and everyone else) what a monster I am. Truth is though, in his core…..and I do believe he has a core that is pure……in his core, he knows the truth about us and he will always, always be haunted by thoughts of me. I was the only real thing he ever really had in his life. And I think I will always be that to him.
But there is nothing I haven’t tried to do to save the situation. I am doing what I have never done now. I am accepting the truth about what my relationship really was and how he really treated me and I am just plain moving on. But I have to tell you and everyone else on here, that this site is truly and completely my lifeline. When darkness hits, I turn here and it helps me get my head on straight. I just send him light and love now. I wish him well. I fill myself with kind thoughts and I remember that this is about who I AM, not who HE is. I understand the anger so many talk about. These people truly do such harm. But if we fill ourselves with anger and darkness, then we are living in anger and darkness.
Don’t get me wrong, I have thoughts of feeding him to the alligators at times. But I am in a better place when I think of how little it would have meant if Jesus had been on the cross and said, “You bunch of bastards, you’ll pay for this”. Honestly, even though what they do is unacceptable, hurtful, terrible, destructive, mean, undeserving, blah, blah, I think it’s better to think “Forgive them, for they know not what they do”. They are not connected to their spirit. How sad that isl. We think we feel lonely without them? Well not near as lonely as they truly feel. And come death bed time, I’d rather be me than them ANYDAY. If I died tomorrow, it would be in peace. Yes, I’ve done some stupid things in my life. Made some bad decisions. But I’ve never hurt anyone…..and if I did, it was unintentional….and even then, I would ALWAYS tell them how sorry I was and do what it took to make it up to them….if they allowed me to.
Anyhow, thanks again Oxy and all. You guys touch my heart. And thank God I actually have one that works. LOL
Dear Callista,
You made me laugh until I roared with your picture of Jesus on the cross saying “You bastards will play for this!” ROTFLMAO baw hahahaha! Choke snort! And you are SO RIGHT! Keeping the hate and anger going is like drinking poison yourself and expecting some one else to die!
That’s hard to accept sometimes because anger truly does “light up our pleasure center” in the brain chemically and thoughts of revenge give us a shot of the pleasure hormones too. So we are working against biology here to get that bitterness out of our hearts and minds.
I am sure this story has been on the blog here more than once maybe but the old “native american” story of a young man who was talking to his grandfather about how sometimes he felt angry and sometimes nice, and the grandfather said “well, son, there are two wolves inside you a good one and a bad one and they fight all the time.” the boy FEED.” So what is inside us to some extent is what we feed inside us.
I love your attitude and I’m glad you consider me a friend! That makes my heart sing! ((((Hugs)))))