By | May 10, 2010 481 Comments

What sociopaths want: power, control and sex

The two most recent Letters to Lovefraud both had the same theme: Sociopathic men who relentlessly pursued women, proclaiming their love, making glowing promises of a committed relationship. The men pushed for sex, and although the women resisted, eventually, believing they were involved in real romances, the women succumbed to the men’s physical desires. With that, both women were dumped.

Read the letters here:

I met him on Facebook, was used for sex and dumped the next day

I felt bonded, even though this made me nauseated

Both women were astounded at how they were unceremoniously booted. They had a hard time coming to grips with the idea that they’d been used and abused. How could a man say all those wonderful things and not mean them? How could a man who talked so eloquently about love be lying? How could a man paint such a beautiful picture of the future and then discard me? Was there something wrong with me? Wasn’t I sexy enough? Smart enough? Pretty enough?

Both women tried to get answers from the men. The men, however, never admitted the true reason that they did what they did:

They wanted to.

Core of a sociopath

Sometimes it’s hard for us to get our minds around how truly different sociopathic individuals are from the rest of us. This is understandable. After all, 96% to 99% of people are like us—capable of love and consideration.

But that 1% to 4% who are sociopaths—well, they might as well be aliens. These people:

  • Feel no empathy at all towards other human beings
  • Have no conscience
  • Are interested only power, control and sex

This is the core of a sociopath—no empathy, no conscience and desiring only power, control and sex.


So what does this mean? It means sociopaths feel entitled to take what they want, regardless of how their actions may damage others. It means they get no satisfaction from connectedness with others, they only get satisfaction from winning. It means sociopaths view the world as predators and prey—they are the predators and everyone else is prey.

This is shocking. Mind-blowing. Impossible to understand.

So we cannot try to understand. We can only accept. This is how they are.

They do not want us as lovers, partners, friends or family members. They want power, control and sex.

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But yet we still try to make sense of it all, knowing that it doesn’t make sense! Takes a while to actually come to the conclusion that you state above.
Contrary to the ones who came before him, I was insistent on holding out on sex until I felt I was sure about our relationship. He obligingly waited saying he respected my decision and would not pressure me. But I’m guessing this left the door open for him to seek gratification elsewhere while continuing to ply me. I met the family, went to social/work functions, weddings, funerals, in essence became the decoy.
Had I not discovered what the S was doing online and confronted him with it, I would have been discarded like the lady before me. He actually told me about her in the beginning, but not all the details, and he made her look crazy/psycho for pursuing him although he had told her that he was seeing me. How much is actually true of what he says remains undetermined.
Funny with all the flowery prose and all the protestations of love, devotion, etc., that when hit with questions, they all of a sudden become stupid and silent.


This posting is very true, something it took me a long time to really see. A telling comment my husband made about 14 years ago when my children were babies, I had said I was too tired for sex, he responded with “Why do you think people get married, it’s so they can have sex whenever they want to.” Really? This is why you got married? Idiot!!!! He has fantasies about other women daily and is sexually compulsive. He will do ANYTHING to hide it. He thinks he’s god’s gift and acts so mysterious.

I think he is partially aware that something is wrong with him but refuses to address it. When I told him that he wasn’t the person I thought he was, he tried very hard to convince me that he is that person.

Sex is necessary for his existance. Deviant porn, control, deviant bedroom behavior. Even if the sex can be really good, it is not based on an emotional connection, therefore it’s just sex. I don’t need to be married to a one night stand, been there, done that. At least I knew when I had a one-nighter, that was exactly what it was. No lies, no illusions.

The poor women who were victimized by these preditors, did not deserve it. They believed what the spath told them, believed they wouldn’t be lied to. I hope they are able to see red flags in the future and wil have productive, loving, relationships with people that are deserving of their affections.


Thank you so much for this post, Donna. Because they want to, and because they CAN.

Wrapping our heads around the fact that there exist other human beings devoid of empathy, conscience, or feeling is very difficult for most of us. “Surely, you’re mistaken,” was the constant response that I experienced re ex spath and spath son. “He can’t be THAT bad because you married him,” was another. Yet, another was, “But, he’s your SON! Don’t you LOVE your own SON?”

Trying to make sense of these people comes down to this: we, as human beings, know far less than we think we do. We can’t always process what “is”, even though we invent this involved verbage and author lengthy descriptions in an attempt to define the absence of what I consider to be a soul. We have willingly stifled our instincts to the point where we, as a society and culture, not only fail to recognize the inner voice, but we actively IGNORE it when encountering the spath.

The sex – aside from orgasm – was empty, meaningless, deviant, humiliating, distasteful, and a host of other negatives. I ended up feeling used, though I couldn’t really pinpoint why. I felt dirty, though I couldn’t seem to define the reason. When I review how the subterfuge and gaslighting ocurred, I am amazed at the insidious and complete brainwashing tactics that were employed and the cruelty that was the ex spath’s biggest fun of all.

Perhaps, if we were not such an “evolved” species, we might be able to peg these people for what they are well in advance and begin winnowing them out, genetically, by not reproducing with them. The societal shunning of such creatures would insure that they would not be allowed to cause such damage. Certainly, there are those out there who are just plain jerks and do not fit the profile of spathy. But, for those who do fit the profile, it would be so much easier to identify them if we just relearned to trust our instincts.


Hi. I just needed to chime in for a second, I just could not contain myself wanting to share. I just saw the movie Gaslight last night. Whoa, that’s so much like what I have gone through. I was completely transfixed and glued to my TV. It resonated on such emotional level. Has anyone seen this movie? If so, how much could you relate?


It’s one of my favorite movies, Greenfern, and I can relate to it 100%. The ex spath wasn’t as much in a hurry as the character that Charles Boyer played, but there were other “prizes” in the offing. It’s all relative to the individual, but my belief is that every Survivor of spathy experienced gaslighting on some (often, many) levels.



So many of your experiences mirror mine. Some to a different degree. I know I’ve said this before, but I’m glad I’m not alone. I’m not alone, yeah! I’m not happy that others went through hell, but to have affirmation that I’m not a raving lunatic, is priceless. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Sociopathy has been found to be in the genes. (maybe not all cases, but there is a link) Is it possible some people carry a recessive gene that makes the risks for sociopathy higher when paired with another recessive gene for sociopathy? Just a guess. My sister’s children have a greater risk for developing bi-polar because she has it. It is so much better for them that they don’t live with her, they are way more healthy.


Button said:

“The ex spath wasn’t as much in a hurry as the character that Charles Boyer played, but there were other “prizes” in the offing.”

I kept thinking that the jewels Charles Boyer tried to get to, could represent many different things. They could represent spiritual gifts, soul and spirit that the Spath does not have. They need to steel it in order to feel like they have it.



I just watched this movie on you tube. Scarry how much I felt like Ingred Bergman’s character during our marriage. Just watching it gave a a lump in my throat. Your point about the spath taking so much from us is so true. For some people it might have been monitary but the things taken from me were my self esteem, my integrity, intuition, and the biggest thing that was taken was my trust. It will never be the same, but maybe that’s a good thing, I won’t let crapola into my life anymore.


This article makes sense to what I was saying how suddenly the NPD here has been all over me like a bad smell….he is scared he is losing his stronghold…not that he is losing someone he cares about…


Muldoon, “not that he is losing someone he cares about…” The saddest (and, sickest) thing about this statement is that “cares” should be replaced with “once owned.” Spaths are incapable of caring in the way that you and I and other members understand it and I’m hope I don’t come across as criticizing your remark – it’s so very, very true, Muldoon. Even using the word, “someone,” suggests that the spath has some sort of feeling by identifying the former victim as a human being.

Once I began using terminology and descriptions that were consistent with spathy, a clearer image began to develop for me. That image was that spaths may have skin, hair, teeth, blood, sinew, and muscularture, but they are, by no stretch of the imagination, “human.” Sure, they cry, they laugh, they rage, but their emotional displays are in direct relation to what they THINK is convincing behavior. I had to remind myself (as my own method of processing) that these people literally have no soul. Even rocks, trees, and clouds have souls, but these Things are voids wrapped in a cloak of human skin. They do deliberate harm with complete malice.

Source targets are just that: targets, bullseyes, lampshades, twigs. Once we’ve chosen to Survive, we are human beings, once again. We are valid. We are valuable. We have purpose. We simply….are.

Hang tight, Muldoon!!! {{{hugs}}}


Buttons….I understand and dont take offence…I have often thought upon seeing emotion from it be it sorry, affection, regret that he is not far off script reading,its not from the heart..


😉 attagirl, Muldoon!


“This is shocking. Mind-blowing. Impossible to understand.
So we cannot try to understand. We can only accept. This is how they are.”

The above statement is so true but still I feel stubborn and obsessive trying to understand what happened. I think this is why I can spend days reading about S’s. Like most trying to recover from a relationship w/ a S my whole world, belief system and everything has been turned upside down.

I remember the S asking me why I was frightened when we were watching a scary movie and I think he was truly curious as fear was something he did not have.

The movie was about ghosts and hauntings. Just because one can not see something with the physical eyes does not mean it doesn’t exist and this concept always scared me a little. However what scares me now (after being with a S) is seeing the physical being, human, person or whatever and in reality they don’t exist, nothing inside…spiritless or soulless.


I found another profile on the person who I thought -well you guys know what I thought…

He actually wrote on a profile “I like a lot of sex in my life”

Does it get any plainer……?????



I had many puzzling moments whilst watchimg movies with the P. He was from a different country so I gave the benefit of the doubt to that…a cultural language difference.

In hindesight I can see really clearly he had NO EMPATHY so he didn’t like emotional movies. I remember getting a film out about suicides of Golden Gate bridge…it was semi-documentary and utterly fascinating…He just did not get it. He said it was the most stupid movie ever and really expressed his contempt for the suicides. (I was empathising with them)
He went for big silly funny comedies….and he only laughed because other people laughed…I even started laughing when nothing funny was happening and guess what, he would be falling around the place laughing too (THERE WAS NO JOKE>>NOTHING)
subtle emotional nuances were lost on this bozo asshole (excuse the language but he earned it! ) he was watching MY EXPRESSIONS and mimicking them…he could only do that with comedies because the characters were he could read the emotional plot….anything subtle he was blind, lost and hey that’s a tragedy right there…he can’t feel empathy….there is nothing more gorgeous in the world than feeling empathy for living things, it’s what I will value most.


agreeing with pilgrimage in that it’s mind blowing…off the scale of human understanding and scary beyond words


Bulletproof…I have goosebumps rising up all over my arms with your reference to watching movies, etc. Ex spath was the same, exact way and would actively mimic that which he saw people portray in movies, especially comedies. You’ve got some super insight, and I appreciate your putting your observations into something that I can easily understand. Thank you, so much!


thanks buttons

I have goosebumps too as I realise in hindesight the “whole Story” I think that’s the function of the so called PTSD symptoms (nightmares, intrusive flashbacks, obsessive re -running of everything over and over…)

I could never have come to these conclusions without the benefit of intrusive flashbacks, you might also call it hindsight…rather than being stuck in the past you are actually summing it up in a co -herent whole, that you can put into words…updating, and updating until you have the complete picture/ or lesson…..and then I think letting go becomes an option.

It’s so hard to face the truth. it’s taken me nearly 1 year no contact to get the “insight” or “truth” and that is NO EMPATHY means NO EMPATHY

As for the sex thing, yes technically brilliant but human connection? zero

Ox Drover

It is true we must accept what IS, but I think the fact that we get so LITTLE VALIDATION from the rest of the world about our assessment of the true situation, that it makes us doubt ourselves to the extent we feel literally CRAZY!

Like Buttons said, the people we try to talk to, to share our feelings and insights with in-validate us with “you can’t quit loving/helping him/her, s/he is your ________” (fill in the relationship) WE are looked at as the UN-natural ones because we chose to opt out of the relationship that is so painful. Our neighbors, friends and family devalue us, invalidate us and increase the damage done by the psychopath in the first place.

I think I would have had better luck telling people I had been abducted by space aliens than telling them my egg donor is as FAKE! I think They wouldn’t think I was completely crazy at least, only partly crazy!


yes Oxy – but eventually the truth be known about the spaths and narcs in our life – sometimes we here Yes you were right sometimes we dont..sometimes we here I told you so — all that matters in the end is we have removed that source of pain and learn to take better care of ourselves and the one’s who are true caring feeling people – for me it was the physical toll it took on me that was the kick in the head I needed to stay away from em…mommie dearest or not..

Ox Drover

Dear Henry, darlink, your “momster” makes Joan Crawford look like Santa Claus! Heck, your momster makes Ted Bundy look like the Santa Claus!

We are better off without them!


We go round-and-round in our heads, trying to get a handle on our experiences, leading us to figure things out, helping us get past spath exposure.


Hello everyone. I was reading on one of these threads, and got a link to Alice Miller’s book, The Drama of the Gifted Child, which was recommended to me last year by a psychiatrist I know.
It seems that what she feels is something I have felt my whole life. In a nutshell…she feels that cruelty to children is what makes them messed up. Some become sociopaths, killers, and some go the other way, like me, and most of us on here….we have low self esteem and become “too trusting”.
She doesn’t believe socios are just “born” the way they are, even though she feels that we ARE born with our temperaments.
It made me think about my x’s. Especially since I got a text form my xbf Friday night saying that he “misses me still,(told me that a month ago via text) and “OMG I love you so much and I am so sorry”. (I didn’t respond)
I thought about HIS tragic childhood, being abandoned by his bio mom at age ten…never saw her again. Not even knowing WHO his Dad was or his name….and being raised in fear by a cruel grandmother who beat him and his sisters!
I actually felt sorry for him and wondered how he could even be as “normal” as he is.
Alice says that “unless we have an Enlightened Witness” to help us resolve the cruel mistreatment, we end up really messed up.

Reading this stuff made me sad. Not only for myself and my X’s…but sad about our world. There will never be world peace, only wars, because the cycle lives on. So many children are abused and live in fear and have “issues” and don’t acknowledge that they do…don’t get help…and end up hurting others or ourselves.

I was really sad last night about this. But, it made me look at things in a different light. Alice says we need not “love and respect” our parents once we acknowledge that we were mistreated.Otherwise we end up feeling its our fault and that we deserve the mistreatment as adults. Sortof like the “betrayal bond”.

I couldn’t stop reading the articles she wrote. It made me realize how our childhoods really determine who we are. And, how “in the dark” most parents are about how to identify our children that are predisposed and how to prevent these kids from becoming sociopaths, criminals, and/or doormats for abuse.

Ox Drover

Dear Tobehappy,

ALL people have CHOICES in how they behave. You do. They do. There is a lot of evidence that the predisposition toward psychopathy is genetic, but not of course 100%—but without that predisposition being present in the genetic make up, abuse may not have the same effect on a child that it does if they have that predisposition.

Read Dr. Leedom’s links to raising the AT RISK CHILD (a child of a psychopath) and I think you will see what I am trying to describe in 50 words or less.

Many psychopaths, including my own P-offspring, present themselves as ABUSED when nothing is further from the truth. That “abuse” that never happened is their EXCUSE for why they do bad things, they use it as a HOOK to make potential victims feel pity for them and to allow them to behave in unacceptable ways. It is a common enough “pity ploy” that you can almost spot them by it!

Hmmm. The only people who know of my abuse is LF, my doctor and my counsellor – all in the last 12 months of my 38 years. Bandying around a fake abuse card is low.

bulletpoof, I really really like your definition of PTSD – such a positive perspective. The PTSD is way less strong after researching DSMs. The 5 years prior to this I went in circles, drank heavily and took up smoking at 33. This site triggers a little, but it’s all educational and a price worth paying in the name of support and education. I’m aware of all my posts yesterday and today (brain fog=rambling incoherence). That’s all it was.

The movie connection intrigues. My N father would laugh at anything to appear like everyone else. It’s like everyone has caught a cold – exhibiting the exact same symptoms. These people exhibit the same traits. We are speaking of hundreds of different people, yet they are identical.

Everyone have a lovely Tuesday. Take care of thyselves and continue to educate us all. My hat off to you all.


Oxy, I agree that its a choice. I see that in my own family life. My socio sister is mentally ill..on ssi for it …had suicide attempts..etc. This is how SHE reacted to the abuse of my socio mom. I didn’t.
But, maybe…just maybe…she isn’t as strong as I am? Or as smart? Why did I see the “sickness” in my mother and CHOOSE to get help at a young age…went to a therapist at age 22. Why did SHE choose to numb the pain with drugs…sex…and suicide attempts? Why did I get a college degree…and become an independent woman/teacher ..while she chose to live off of the govt assistance since she was 21, and still uses people and lies and steals…etc???

I don’t know the answer. Is it just “who we are” we react to abuse? I do believe we are born who we are…but the home environment effects all of us in different ways.

I have 3 girls…and they are all so different. I know that if I stayed married to my xhusb socio…the bad would have been brought out of them. He would have ruined them…esp my asperger’s daughter…who is happy and well adjusted all around. He was beating her up and putting her down. Thats why I left him. Maybe I broke the cycle.

I just understand it clearer now..why my xbf acted the way he did. He had a tragic childhood. I don’t feel anger for him…I understand how he and I were involved. He was a control freak and I was a weak enabler.

I just feel better understanding the dynamics of our relationship.

Ox Drover

Dear tobehappy,

Your sister is NOT you and you are not her so probably your genes are different, AND even though your environment is similar it isn’t identical either. Even identical twins (same DNA) don’t have identical environments even at birth. One twin may have more blood from a better placenta placement, etc. It takes both environment and DNA to make us what we are.

I’m glad you are not like your sister and hopefully your kids will not pass on the genes or environment that helps make another generation of Ps. I think it is unfortunate that few people probably don’t have a P gene donor somewhere in their DNA lines. Add in a little or a lot of abuse and BAMM!!! Another one is formed!

Dani S

Hopeforjoy! It is so true the sex with the Ex S I cant believe he said “that is why you get married” LMAO mine would say “if you dont give it to me, I will go somewhere else and get it” and if he was going out he would say ” you cant let me go out fully loaded” then it would not be his fault if he had to have an empty out somewhere a long the way because I didn’t do my wifely job properly.
I so thought that he was so demanding in the bedroom because I was so hot and desirable & the love of his life LMAO! just dont know why after wild passionate sex he would just roll over and go to sleep. Contact finished!


Your posts are always right on time to where I seem to be in the cycle of recuperation when it comes to the ex sp in my life. Recently went on his facebook page (to do my own gaslighting or withdrawl seeking as it turned out to be), and found out that only 3 days after I had moved out-he was seeking pity parties and new women friends to engage. Yet, he insisted he was over me, even going so far as to present a quote which indicated that I was just “a season, reason, or a lifetime” thing for him! Imagining that any np believes in lifetimes with any one person was the truest part of the joke. I have to admit, it hurt. And I am stunned but relieved at the same time/the quintessential wondering of whether he was really a np or even a sp can really begin to come to and end with me. I know I did the right thing by leaving someone who doesn’t know how to love me. Everything in his actions the days after his posts were focused on moving on from ME! Imagine that, after he told me that I was too old for him and that HE didn’t want to marry me or have children with me (after me wasting a year of my time and money on his video games, food and necessities). Do I feel like I fool that I found this out? No, the fool would have been me staying another year of my old life wondering when he would want to either engage in a normal life with me without taking my money and love as food and fodder for his pity and impending disgust. Discard and disengage was already in effect at the point when I decided to leave. So he was over me? That what he posted. So thankful for the post (they don’t even realize they’ve pushed you along to the health you need). Now I can look forward without wondering if there was anything worth leaving behind.

Quantum Solace

As usual, this article is right on target. Stumbling upon Narcissism/Sociopathy has been not only an eye opener for me but it has lifted a great weight off my shoulders. I have spent 25 years of my life trying to understand why. Once it was all put into context by this disease, I was able to come to terms with the fact that all I can do is accept things for what they are as there is no rhyme or reason for what these monsters do nor can it be understood.

The one I was unfortunately married to – and divorced from for 13 years – still refers to himself with great pride as “the Plaintiff” in court papers. To this day, it is a great feat that he was the one who filed for the divorce – even though he had been removed from our home with a restraining order due to domestic violence. One of the many inconvenient facts he filters out so that he can emerge “the winner” in his own twisted and pathetic mind. Sad, sad, sad. I wish these people could be tested and diagnosed at birth and immediately destroyed. The world would be a much better place for it!


fame2: OMG!
“a season, reason, or a lifetime” thing

I got the same thing after our breakup.
I swear, it’s like they all must attend some spath school!


Muldoon –
I wanted to say that your experience really resonated with mine. After being in love with my NSpath (he fit both categories) for a year, and giving all I had and more (to the point of draining myself on every level), I realized the hollow-ness of his every ‘affectionate’ action. One day we saw a man get robbed on the street (a criple, who was pushed down). My first instinct was to run and help him (the criminal who did it was already long gone), and my ex said ‘No, don’t get involved in other people’s business’….BUT, after my ex saw that a crowd of people had gathered around the injured man, my ex dropped me like a hot potato, ran up to the scene, just so he could play the role of the shining ‘savior’ for an audience. In other words, the only genuine interest my ex had in this poor, crippled man who had just been brutally robbed was an interest in the possibility of attention, and a good story to tell the next day, to promote his image (which was really spotless, everyone LOVES my ex Spath).

As far as I can tell, they have no humanity, no souls, nothing genuine exists inside of them anymore, these people are true monsters. So what does that make us? I often wonder about that one.

I was once the quintessential victim, exceedingly vulnerable, wounded and desperate for love that I never received from my parents. Every using, abusing monster that ever crossed my path took an immediate interest in me. I have at least 10 ‘people’ (and I use the term generously) who’d like nothing better than to destroy me because I’ve shut them and their abuse out of my life.

So, I’ve closed the door on abuse, having recognized it for what it is, but I want to know when a new life can begin for me, one with a statistically sound proportion of kind and decent people in it? It hasn’t happened. I feel like a lightening rod for sociopathic turmoil. I bring out the monster in them, and I escaped from one nightmare right into another, and then another. So I have slammed shut and bolted every door to them, as much as humanly possible, and I wait for the proverbial ‘next door’ to open. You know, people always say that when one door closes, another opens. I wait and I wait, I work and I work, and it’s hell in the hallway.

My real concern now has to do with how to get to that next door, the one that’s actually going to let me into a world without the constant threat and drain of having to protect myself from sociopathic abuse.

Every day I search for a new way to purify myself, strengthen myself, protect myself, advance myself, love myself, care for myself, while I’m still stuck in the hallway. I hear the spaths that I dumped crying and shrieking victim to anyone who’ll listen to them, and pounding away from the other sides of the doors, ready to go for my jugular should they ever find a way to get the doors open. I stand bewildered but wiser in the hallway, having done all that I can think to do to save myself, while looking like the ‘bad guy’ to all my former friends who have been duped by the spaths, and waiting for a miracle, either from within or out. I don’t care what kind of new beginning happens for me, as long as it’s right for me, but it seems like God is saying, “no, you need more time in the hallway.” I hope to understand someday why this continuing situation with the spaths is right for me, and I believe I will.



I just wanted to take a moment to tell all of you how much you have been helping me. I suffer PTSD from a 26 yr nightmare to a sociopath who ruled by physical and mental abuse. It’s been eight yrs since I worked up the courage to leave and I still suffer nightmares most nights.
Finding this website has been such an amazing learning experience. I understand so much now…to the point that I’m even beginning to ‘recognize’ these type of people. It helps me so much to read all of the advice, your comments. I have cried many tears while doing so. I like to think that they are healing tears.
I work sixty plus hours a week keeping my business open so I don’t have time to comment often. But, please know that I’m there, in the background, reading and learning. Thank you all…


missourijewel –
I’m glad to hear from you, reading this website has helped me a lot too. I have PTSD, too. I might have only been with my spath ex for a short while, but I had parents like this too, and am 40 years old. So my whole life, up to now, has been a struggle for a chance to breathe without fear and exhaustion. I have no idea how long it’s going to take before I can re-wire myself into some sort of ‘normal’ human being, one whose life isn’t defined by being a victim.
I wish you the very best as you try to make your way, too, and am sure that every little bit we do to help ourselves does actually help us.

Twice Betrayed

I have to jump in anytime genetics vs environment goes into debate. I would have to agree with Oxy. We all have a choice. Most of you know genetics in regard to my children. I was very good to my kids, raised the first two w/o my first PX and the second with my second P. All three kids grew up [not that way as children] to be hard hearted and with many P traits. For me, my vote goes to genetics being the predominate reason these people go on for generations. I know when we breed horses we get what we breed, most of the time genetic[temperament] wise. We will see, even in the ones that are not solid genetics, traits of the breeding. My kids are drama king/queens telling stories of unfairness, abuse and betrayal. Sure, I have faults and am human, but these kids were never beaten, neglected or betrayed,[ heck, they never even walked home from school and I was always home with cooked food …their friends certainly thought it was great at our house!]…..this is all overblown fabrication in their minds. They continue to dramatize every occasion and then scream things are not fair. I raised these kids, the first two alone, the second one w/o much input from her dad and now…..they all blame me if they so much as get a hangnail. I am for educated input but am like Mark Twain, “Let’s not let our schooling get in the way of our education.”

Twice Betrayed

I was in a long term marriage with a P also. I have been out three years and suffer from some post traumatic symptoms, but they are lessening day by day. I am not triggered by as many things now, and except for dreams sometimes, am doing pretty well. I am still fragile relationship wise and don’t feel I can ever marry again. But, I’m ok with that, at this time, anyway. This is a great place to find help and understanding! My life changed when I read “Women Who Love Psychopaths” and found this blog. My refuge! So glad you are finding what you need here also. Best healing wishes to you!



Its very confusing. I do believe that we are geneticly predisposed…My older sister and one of my cousins are so alike and they grew up in different families and never saw each other growing up. They talk alike and both married Irish guys and both had kids with them and both abandoned their children and husbands when the kids were very young.
Alice feels that the environment we grew up in can make or break us, which is true too. I guess its both. IDK.

All I know is that I don’t ‘hate’ sociopaths or murderers or con men. I don’t ever want to be around them, but I feel that they are what they are..messed up. And, the older I get, the more I realize that there are more “messed up” people out there than “normal”. I always said that 80% are out there…not in the institutions or jails!

Now, why I always felt sorry for people and gave them the benefit of the doubt and was too nice …is another question.
The answer is that “I” have a weakness too. My self esteem has always been low and I know its from the abuse I lived through as a child of a “sick” sociopath.

I just want to be “normal” and healthy. I don’t want to be a cold hearted sociopath and I don’t want to be an insecure woman. That is what I am working on….building my self esteem and only dealing with people in my personal life that are “healthy”.

Everyone has issues, but I don’t need to be around selfish, narcissistic, abusive users ever again. I don’t even bother with my sisters anymore. I’m done. And, it feels great. I take care of ME and my children.

Alot of the post are hitting home for me and it’s good to know that I’m not alone. I never realized this was such a big deal until I met the sociopath in my life. When we met, he lied about everything…how many kids he has, his marital status, family situation…just EVERYTHING. We now have a 3 year old and I am terrified of the fact that she might turn out like her dad.

He came back around last month after two years of being away. I put him out because the lies continued and he had no intentions of working and supporting our daughter. He had multiple “internet relationships” while in my home. I busted him and put him out. I have been doing fine since then until he came to visit a few weeks ago. Once again I just want to expose him to all the women who he’s conning. It’s like I’m getting obsessed with it. HELP!!

Twice Betrayed

Interesting, isn’t it, how genetics, environment and free choice all play into the equation? For me, I still don’t see the total answer. But, I do know I am not going waste any more time trying to fix any of these people. But, I am still curious about the answer.


I know the story. Been there twice, and I’m not really a gullible person. The thing is, what a truly nice guy will say and what a psychopath will say sound like the same things.

And aren’t we told as women to judge a man’s admiration by how fervently he pursues us? My first P was a total goofball who worked at the grocery store. He waved at me over the cheese counter, pursued me in front of my mother, and checked me out in front the reflection in the frozen food case. How charming! How could I say no? The dumping took far less time, I assure you.

My second P was the religious guy who said all the right things and made all the right moves. Only later it came out that a few men from this particular church had a reputation around town for doing that, then dragging their poor little desperate-to-have-kids single career women into the Preparing for Marriage class, where they were indoctrinated into the “be a Christian like us or stay forever single” propaganda.

So P’s can not only pick up the right things to say and act them out perfectly, they can also be taught by certain institutions in society to do that. There must be classes or something.

But is it wrong to take notice of someone with all the right moves or speech? Am I now to look for someone with none of the right moves? Awkward pickup lines and poor presentation?

This is the danger.


Me too. I am going to do some more research on it. Thinking about going back for a MA in criminology. Funny, but the x has a degree in that! Unreal….


for the people comlpaining about the SP wanting too much sex.. well imagine the SP never wanting sex….ever….i met an SP who used me only for mind control and not much else…he claimed he was in a ‘relationship’ with me.. but made me do crazy things just to be in his presence, for a few hours then get kicked out….he treated me lower than anything….he refused sex with me—ever….literally “i dont want to FUCK YOU’…why would anyone wanna fuck THAT??? im a stunningly beautiful woman, and he is an older male….i have nightmares everytime i see people having sex….im a virgin who’s never had sex..and this monster deprived me of sex…..period….i was jealous of raped people…still am….this SP is heinous and horrific…but worse he used anyone else as a sexual object…an object he wanted to get sex from except me, he used as an object he just wanted to mentally screw with and nothing else…not even be around…his was severe and horrific degradation on another level……degradation im still shivering cowering over…he still has me in a mental trap..begging to see him…wnating to see him….suffering daily…but he will ‘refuse’ to see or be in my presence….and sometimes even charge me money to see him make me dress like a prostitute, be on time, do this do that.. pay him money.. only to be at his place…2-3 hours then get kicked out cruelly…he’s made his place this haven i need to go to….but wont let me go….and then screws with my head so extremely….thinking i’ll just ‘show up’ but i dont b/c he lives out of town and im terrified of him and showing up uninvited….it is a cruel situation and nightmare to be part of as he created this game so that everything is revolved around ‘wanting to see or be with him’ so he can keep refusing to see me, rejecting me, rejecting me….leaving me in horror nightmares as to ‘how can a male not want to be around a very attractive female and just mind screw her’… can a male not want to touch or have sex with such a pretty female and only screw with her head in this sick sadistic way? and he goes to ‘EXTREMES” not seeing me for four weeks..while im suffernig daily…..needing to see him out of somethign that is worse than codependency….extreme brutal brainwash mind shock conditioning extreme trauma….so he can continue to torture me in this way…..claiming im his ‘sub’ and a sub and need to learn that…and his ‘whore’ but not even a sub he’ll be around….one who he only mind fucks with on a phone….and makes me give him ‘phonesex’ when im asking for the real thing…affection….anything….but he wont be in my presence, but will call me while he’s with others…refusing to see me torturing me….even in the past when he said i was his GF and he refused to see me…..just getting the supply from the messages…i leave him, attention…calling, writing…he still won’t budge…he’ll say..Well…i was gonna let u come over BUT, u wrote this so I dont think so! and im getting a restraining order against you…and while hes doing this he has somenoe over….and has been tormenting u for weeks…and weeks…..and then will ‘finally’ see you on a whim…one day….at 4 pm will say “be here by 7 and leave at 9″….so u have to drop everything…shower, get your clothes…drive an hour….to go see him get degraded….and get kicked out at 9 pm….treated lower than anything possibel…then never be allowed to see him again unless u show up….on your own which you’re terrified of because he will abuse you if you do….but that’s what he wants….this is a sick game…ie one im trapped in with a very extreme sociopath….and i can’t get out of it…for a lot of reasons….i envy the people who say…..the SP wants tons of sex…as ive been dealign with oen who made me sexless….and the mental and sexual trauma it’s done to me is raelly bad

Ox Drover

Dear Melisa,

The book “The Betrayal Bond” I think is something that you consider reading and it may answer some of your questions, it is available here at LF store or on Amazon or any of the others that sell used copies if you can’t afford a new one. Learning about what is going on inside your mind on this will definitely help you break free! ((((hugs)))) and God bless.

Ox Drover

Dear Ms. Jewel and Chilimac,

Welcome to you both here at LF! Glad that you are here, there is so much knowledge and support here for you both! Recovering from the “beatings” we took at the hands of the psychopaths (physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, financially etc) takes understanding and knowledge and we get both of those here at LF! Again, welcome and thanks for posting! God Bless.


COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS! He sounds like a “sick” man and probably has some serious diseases. I wouldn’t trust him and DEFINITELY NOT have sex with him!

You must have guardian angels protecting you!


My spath played with my head all along too. Yes, he did want sex, but he deprived me of it to hurt me, too. He LOVED seeing how dependent upon him I had become (fool that I was, I had no idea how addictions develop, he did, and he made sure one developed in me!). I literally hid myself away in a closet, in the darkness, whenever he deprived me of his wonderful presence. I just couldn’t face the light of day without him, sick as I was at the time. He liked to see me that weak. He loved it.
So next time this guy has you begging, remember that what he likes is to see you beg. THAT is how he gets his pleasure, to treat you like dirt and have you come begging for more. That makes him feel like the great man he wishes he were. Do you want to give him that satisfaction?

A woman made lots of trouble between me and my ex, and I hated her at the time, for driving a wedge between us. But you know what, I thank God that that woman came on the scene, because she opened my eyes to what he was, and this made me stop the affair – that is, the she was great, in hindsight, because i was so pissed at him for giving her attention that the whole thing kept the affair from going on any longer than it might have otherwise. You’ll be VERY glad, one day, that you never slept with him.



psyche, tobehappy and others.. you are so right….I mean I’m sure what you say is true….even though at this time it is really hard and the metnal trauma is very hard…..but you keep thinknig…yes somewhere deep down…maybe there is a positive or a blessing somewhere….though it doesn’t feel like right now….and I totally know waht you mean psyche.. I can’t breathe without him….can’t live….it’s the horrible dependency, but worse….he is never there, to really help with the suffering…so the dependency lingers in loneliness….and the suffering just gets worse….adn i dont have any friends or can turn to others….so im just alone trapped wanting to see him…..begging….it is a bad nightmare…worse because he never sees me….once every 2-3 weeks for a couple of hours or less….before he would ease the suffering adn the addiction created by this monster….people dont get its an addiction because they deprive you of something normal…and torture u with it—not that people are ‘addicted’…the sp never saw me….would deprive me of ‘himself’ make me want him insanely….then torture me with the deprivation so extremely…then with the torture, came more and more torture…and more deprivation…each instance of deprivation became more torture….then he would see me for a few hours sometimes only one hour then kick me out while i so desperately wanted to be with him…then make me suffer/wait again for weeks…to see him only–1-3 hours….then kick me out…so that’s the awful addiction created….so then if the sp really awnts to torture you it’s….never giving u the drug, or themself…or whatever they created….seeing you 1.5 hours in four weeks…after extreme mental abuse….everyday u are abused mentally and go through nightmares…and in this case…never being with the sp…or being in his presence….so it is extreme and just terrible…this sp also decided to give the victim no elements of a relationship….no sex…refused sex with me ever…wouldnt sleep in a bed with me…would not let me stay at his place…longer than 24 hours…most fo the time ti was just a few hours…but in case he ‘allowed’ me to stay there were rules– if i wanted to leave to get something.. i couldn’t come back or got locked out…so i had to fight/negotiate leaving…if i stayed the night…i couldn’t leave, sleep in bed with him…if he ‘allowed’ me to sleep in bed with him i had to wear high heels in bed.. also when iw ent to visit him i had to wear high heels in his place and dress like a hooker and had to wear heels the whole tiem and never take them off and if i took them off i got absued or threatened to get kicked out thats after havnig to get tortured just to get there and spend a few hours there.. and he was mostly physically abusive and sexually sadistic such as biting, or anything painful…no sex ever….or intercourse…he rejected me sexually…in 3 years we never slept in a bed together two nights in a row …there was no relationship just small elements or bits/pieces of what a relationship is which is what he had me begging suffering fighting to get…just some ‘cuddling/hugging’…togetherness intimacy..he had me jumping through hoops, just to be in his presence….saying things, doing things…there was extreme brainwash, mental abuse, deprivation…and he even had me degrading myself daily on a phone…called awful names and made me call myself those names…i think they were a projection of himeslf…he was also a severe N and projected 24/7…so he was cosntantly saying sick sexual thigns about me or other things which were terrible revelations of his disturbing self….and worse there was not even being in his presence…and making me so dependennt on him but never seeing or being with me….and as he said i was his ‘puppet’ who he controlled and used….and not even sexually as he had me begging him for sex…or for anything and wouldn’t give it to me…every element was based on time/calculations/hours…as most sp’s hate to give of themselves so they can only calculate the # of hours they give a person or in this case a victim…and for that amt of time he gave of himself, he had in turn tenfold to suck dry drain and take 1000 times more out of me then manipulate brainwash me into thinking that i was giving him nothing and he did everything for me…and i was an ungrateful spoiled etc…who just ‘wanted what i wanted’ and projections and classic sociopathic statements…..very sadistic controlling and horrid…so every element of absue and deprivation is now a mental horror that you have to live with just tryign to figure out what kind fo person would do that to someone…and deprive someone of anything normal….and abuse them so extremely….I used to also dislike people who tried to break us apart or cause problems, only because at the time things were going ‘ok’…i mostly complied with him out of fear of more suffering….esp the kind im going through right now….but it doesn’t matter as no matter what i did now it’s happening and i can’t bear it– it feels as if he’s trying to increase that dependency tenfold or destroy me altogether…. it’s just scary overall….as I can’t deal with it…and can barely function… sure he does have diseases and he is a very sick person and can only imagnie what he is into as the story of him is worse and there are so many awful details involved……but scarier that he has this terrible hold on me….and even more so more involved aside from just being mentally controlling such as the metaphysical which he is involved in…..during these periods of extreme suffering it is just really hard to deal with….as you feel like death is upon you…..but what bothers me about this SP is the making me dseire need him to such extremes…that i can barely function to not meting the desires or suffering, which he at least did in the past…his abuse has become more sadistic and the torture worse…to where it feels as if he’s just trying to kill me or i dont know what he is trying to do….nor do i care…i just want the suffering gone….I know what he is….he is lower than a monster ….i know what he’s doing….but i can’t get out of it….and have to remain in this mode of suffering…until ‘he’ changes it …and yes it’s gracing you with their ‘presence’ whcih tehy so deprive you of….but in this case it is total deprivation…..and just so scary…..yes they like the begging for sure…to make u weak dependent…..but this one has claimed for years– im his sub…..even the begging doesn’t do anything….sometimes you will even sink to their wishes and say…what do u want…u dont have that choice because you have to end the pain or suffering….btu with the sp im dealing with– even tha doesn’t work….for he’s just insane and there is nothing that works…..yeah to them theya re your ‘god’ or they think they are or make it that way…..what he thinks feels doesn’t matter…though….the satisfaction he gains….the only reason its upsetting is how there is no ease of the suffering of the victim despite the torturer gaining whatever he is getting…..its a nasty situation…..but the worst part is realizing that they do have this over you…not this power but whatever it is….its the worst realization…..especially if u can’t get out…can’t end it…can’t negotiate or get a release of the hell the are putting u through…and u cant negotiate with a sadist….there is nothing.. in the past it was using ‘specific words’ to mete their punishment…it was tryign to use/say different things….now its just chaos—ie in my situation where there is nothing u can say or do…..asking them to stop won’t do anything…threatening, nothing….begging won’t make them stop….and in the worst case scnarios…they want you to ‘submit’ and im not even sure how….as they’ve drained sucked u dry–over n over again…put u thru horrors….that isnt enough….they still do more and more….and even if u ‘submit’ they still won’t stop…..its scary….i wish i knew how to stop them….ie they are ruthless insane irrational…im sure there aer many ways to get out of the trap/mental trap all the bonds that have been created…..but for those who dont know how….its hard as all the trauma theyve done to a person just creates more bonds and seals it all in…. it is a horror story and bad for anyone who has ever met or dealt with a sociopath… I dont see the means or reasoning behind the actions of this SP…he seems to jsut want a ‘puppet’ as he says..begging to see him be with him, give him non-stop attention…so that he can feel important…and not much else….refusing to ever see or be with the ‘puppet’ that he claims is a puppet…and constnatly gettign that non-stop NS…which is just so scary…..i regret everyday of my life ever meeting this person……or ever knowing such evil exists


also…for the person who wrote this article…or in reference to the article…..these people are everywhere—the kind who try to get sex and bail—epsecially on the internet…it is awful and terrible….how many sick people are out there just to use others for sex….and in an extremely bad way….I meet people on the internet all the time….they are not full fledged sociopaths or maybe they are, but they all display these characteristics….they want to try to get sex off ‘any’ girl…use her and then just leave..they will do/say anything to get what they want and literally the key is just using that person and making them feel like trash….it is so common these days you just have to beware….most guys or those types of guys are out…looking to get laid, giving nothin in fact they try to see if they can get laid…and give the girl nothing…no desire to spend money on someone….go out on a date….take a person somewhere….theyre thinking “i want ot get something for nothing”….and this is how they function….. and if they can’t get ‘what they want’ then they run off to the next person…they will also put a person down and call them names, or weird…or try to make them feel bad if they aren’t getting what they want…attempt to manipulate, abuse or insult a person….it is so terrible…and so common….i cant explain how many people ive met like this–100’s I would say….im usually just surprised thinking…what kind of terrible people are tehse that they expect ‘sex’ from a first date or anything from someone and if they can’t get it– they don’t call the person back or care….or are even bitter…a large majority of the males in society today or many u find online display the classic character traits of sociopathy/narcissism and it is terrible….


We try to make sense of the nonsense.

It drives us crazy for years.

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