By | June 23, 2014 166 Comments

Why we need to talk about our experiences with sociopaths

Most of us at Lovefraud are here because we’ve been conned, duped, deceived and betrayed by a sociopath.

Once we finally figure out what we are dealing with, many of us do not tell other people what really happened. After all, it’s embarrassing to admit that no, we didn’t see it coming, and yes, we fell for the scam. And if we do venture to describe the sociopath’s true behavior, we may be met by disbelief. “What? That charming person couldn’t possibly have done that. You must have misinterpreted.”

We quickly learn that people do not understand what we are talking about. Either they don’t believe us, or ostracize us. So we stop talking. We try to hide what happened, even from ourselves.

Our silence on being betrayed by sociopaths has two effects:

  1. Our pain is bottled up within us, impeding our own recovery
  2. The world does not learn just how many social predators are living in our midst

Talking about it

After my appearance on ABC 20/20 Friday, I received an email from a Lovefraud reader who wrote:

I watched the show last night and somehow it unleashed several hidden emotions and feelings which I tried to bury regarding my situation. My healing has begun slowly month by month and I am now learning how not to be so hard on myself and be more cautious with my future relationships…

This reader experienced a release because someone else who was targeted told her story.

Katherine Underwood suffered tremendously at the hands of Budimir Drakulic, who took more than $410,000 from her. I know for a fact that it was very difficult for Katherine to do the TV show. Anyone who watched could see that she became emotional on several occasions.

Still, Katherine did it. And sharing her story likely helped thousands of other people.

When we talk about our experience, when we stand up and say, “yes, this happened to me,” it helps other people who have been targeted realize that they are not alone. This can go a long way towards recovery.

Our own healing

Talking about our experience also helps our own healing. When we share what happened, we are no longer carrying the burden of our pain all by ourselves.

A big reason why it’s often so difficult to recover from the devastation of the sociopath is that we feel so isolated, like no one really understands what we experienced.

Unfortunately, often our perception on this is correct. People do not understand what happened. That’s why a community like Lovefraud is so important everyone who reads and posts here does understand.

To know that someone truly empathizes with us is extremely validating. Especially when a sociopath has been calling us “crazy” and “mentally unbalanced,” validation can be truly helpful to our recovery.

Breaking the silence

When we discover that we’ve been duped by a sociopath, among the multitude of unpleasant emotions we feel are shame and embarrassment. Talking about what happened increases our shame and embarrassment, so we don’t do it.

Our silence, unfortunately, benefits the particular sociopath we were involved with, along with all the other sociopaths who prowl the planet. Because we don’t talk, society doesn’t know they exist, and they continue to get away with their manipulation and deceit.

Yes, sociopaths are in our midst. Sometimes they look scary, but usually they don’t — they seem to be just like the rest of us, at least at first. They’re attentive and charming. They appear to be our best friend, or a pillar of the community.

Even a guy named Budimir Drakulic, the man who conned Katherine Underwood, was able to pass himself off as trustworthy.

Back in 1994, when Katherine met Drakulic, there was even less awareness of sociopaths than there is now. Today, if nothing else, all of us at Lovefraud at least know that they exist.

Spreading the word

Let’s spread the word.

Talking about sociopaths can accomplish three things:

  1. Helping someone else recognize that they’re involved with a predator
  2. Helping our own recovery by sharing the burden of our experience
  3. Warning the rest of the world about the predators who live among us

We should educate ourselves about this personality disorder, and when the opportunity arises, talk about it. It may not always be safe to talk about our personal situation. But we can share general information. We can send someone a link to Lovefraud.

Knowledge is power. The first step in protecting ourselves from sociopaths is knowing that they exist.


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Thanks for sharing this article. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I was talking with someone whose daughter is devastated by the loss of a relationship with what sounds like a sociopath. I gave her the LF sight to pass on to her daughter.

Knowledge is power. After having gone through this myself, if I can help others, I’m all about paying it forward!

Thanks for all you do.



Can’t. Can’t share. This is the third time it’s happened. I only get yelled at, and the whole what an idiot I was story. That’s why we keep it to ourselves. Sad but true.


Infinity, Who’s yelling? No one here is. You aren’t an idiot. You are someone who was manipulated by someone who supposedly loved you. That doesn’t make you an idiot. Believe it or not… the only way out is through.

Talking about it – with someone you can trust whether in your life or here is how you get through it. Talking about it is painful. It is emotional. It can be depressing. You might think you will lose it in the journey. Trust me… getting through the pain and emotion there is a reward. You find what attracted you to a sociopath and what about you brought the sociopath to you. After you deal with the victimization of dealing with sociopaths, you discover the strength you have in surviving sociopaths.

If anyone is yelling at you… yell back. The shame in being victimized by sociopaths is not yours so give it back to the sociopaths – not that they are capable of acknowledging that little fact, but it belongs to them not you. You don’t need to go on guilt trips so stop packing your bags for them!

I fought talking about it for a long time. It was no good for me and it did awful things to my health. I met the right person to share with and I started talking. Talking about it with people I was safe with got me through my personal storm. As I got stronger, the sociopath in my life faded away. He moved on to easier territory. As I got comfortable in my own skin, my life opened up to all kinds of possibilities. Those who were holding me down got out of my way. The more I talked about it, the easier it became and the healthier I got.

I’m not saying it was easy or enjoyable. It was hard work during crazy times. Today, I have a new life that I love. I have friends who are true friends. I’m happy and frankly, living a happy life is the best revenge!


I am so thankful for this site. Right now, it’s the only place I feel comfortable talking about my experiences. I take lots of 2 steps forward and one step back, which baffles any friend who hasn’t experienced an spath. I also grew apart from most of my friends both because the spath sucked up all my time. He also put down all my friends, so I even began falsely believing they were not good to hang around with. I feel very lonely right now, but need someone to reach out to for support. Most friends get upset if you don’t take their advice. My frequent slides are too much for them to handle and I don’t like their judgmental looks and comments. Until I find the right person to share with, I am so thankful for my LF community.


Dear Claim,

I had mixed reactions, I ended up telling a lot of people but still felt embarrassed too. I just know that when I talked about my later term miscarriage, it helped me too(another taboo subject, many people don’t know the right things to say to you). Then I would go back and tell the people I told not to say anything to others. I felt if people were going to know I wanted the power to tell them and not my friend then gossiping it back to outsider friends.

A couple friends felt like they were interested about the gossip and drama, then one of my really good friends here just kept giving me horrible advice”go drink some tea” “watch a movie” “try not to think about it”…blah blah blah. I had many people tell me to just get on with it, and if they still knew I was checking and writing on this site, they would probably ask why? It sucks, people just never understand until they go through something, I felt so alone after my miscarriage like no one understood what I was going through. I am back at square one at going through something my friends just don’t understand-being manipulated by a spath.I have two friends, one here and one back home, that I can call anytime and talk to about this and I just focus on them. But love fraud has been a great outlet for me to. I make sure I take some time everyday to visit and either vent or help give some advice. The writing of the pieces of my story is my saving grace.


I’m glad I found this site like everyone else. I was involved with my Narc for 1 1/2 years and it wasn’t until 2 months ago that I caught him sneaking out on a date with someone else. That devastated me. The funny part I guess is that I was wanting to end the relationship anyway because I was tired…tired of asking for normal things in the relationship that he just refused to give me. I guess part of me hoped that he would change. When I caught him that night, it was like everything thing that I had suspected..all the lies and infidelity was laid out for me. I was relieved that my suspicions where true, but then I was like, “how and why would you want to do this to me, wasn’t I enough??” Even after all that I still wanted to reconcile with him. I know it’s crazy, but I do know you all understand. He blamed me for EVERYTHING that happened saying I provoked him. He even physically put his hands on me. He didn’t hurt me, but it was just the fact that he did, and on top of that called me a bitch. I called the police on him and from that he was like you tried to get me arrested…hell yeah I did, you did not have any right whatsoever putting your hands on me.

I was willing to get past it and work on making things better, but he CONSTANTLY kept bring it up saying I hurt his ego and that I provoked him by calling him names in front of his neighbors. He just continued to lie. I was going to excuse them…I was. I just wanted him, why I just don’t understand. Through it all he never sincerely apologized for what he did to me.

ANYWAY, after all that, he pissed me off again, I cussed him out and went on No Contact for about 3 weeks and fell off the wagon this weekend…again I reached out asking could we work things out and the bastard had a smart comment and then didn’t respond to the last 2 texts I sent him. Again, I’m right back at square root 1 I feel. This is sooo hard. I started seeing a therapist last week and yesterday I was so depressed that I felt like committing suicide, but thank God for my friends. I’ve got to get pass this and I’m hoping with the help of you guys I can.

I know that I have not accepted him for what he is…it’s like I can’t believe it, I didn’t even realize he was narcissistic until a friend of mine told me to research narcissistic relationships and that was like a smack in the face. I was like OMG this is our relationship on the web. He was soooo nice in the beginning and periodically throughout the relationship, but he was so controlling and treated me like a child with his crazy mood swings. I was always walking on eggshells because I never knew what was going to set him off. There is was…all written out for me and I still have not accepted it.

Thanks for reading…


Dear Southerngirl,

You will see you are not alone on this page and that it helps a lot in recovering too. You will see a lot of us also making contact again or checking pictures or letting their text/email updates bother us. My spath hasn’t made any contact…but like the drug that he was, I feel myself wanting to contact him. I only want to contact him to keep letting him hear the wrath of my anger and disgust for him, I dont want him back. I also feel I want more answers, but really will get any, I don’t think so. My spath’s fiance called two weeks ago and there was other women. He love bombed me, he gaslighted me, and he asked me for money(large sums) and I was smart in that department to say no but he had a great way of making me feel guilty about it. He divided and conquered his ex wife against her own family members and his fiance and her mom. He was Jamaican too, a down right fake rasta and hid behind his dreads and pretend chants.

I feel I took two steps backwards last night. I went into my phone and read past text messages between us. I saved them, because at the end he was being scary and threatening. Well i just starting crying and feeling depressed. I looked back at them and couldn’t believe some of the old texts I found that were such a red flag, but my blinders were on. I can only see the blinders now. I just have to pick up the pieces and try to move two steps forward again. It is a slow process but you will get there. Stay strong.


I was hit twice with sociopaths. The first one did such a number on me that he left me vulnerable for the 2nd one, who swooped in on his white steed to save me from the 1st, then totally devastated me financially. (Cheated on me with hookers too, but the worst part for me is losing my financial security).

At the time I didn’t understand what sociopaths were. I am trying to learn to forgive myself, because how could I protect myself if I didn’t know what I was protecting myself from? Now I know better, so I hope to do better (although I do understand that even those that are experts on sociopaths can still be fooled).

Mine was the pillar of the community also, and people STILL tell me it is difficult for them to believe he was into the perverted and fraudulent stuff he was doing. He was an ex cop who was doing some illegal stuff and he came across as such a good man, honorable (blech!) ….he was always talking about how important honor was, freaking liar/fraudulent jerk, and then he took advantage of a woman with small children. And he also took money from one of my kids. I am having a hard time forgiving him for that, and forgiving me for trusting him. I’ll never be able to make that up to my child….I can’t even get my feet on the ground again financially.

I think I am still reeling a bit. Even though it has been almost 5 years, I am still dealing with the financial repercussions (collection agencies calling) and I am not sure how I am going to dig out of this mess. Sometimes I am not sure I want to keep going on…..


uugghhh still in shock. I have to sit back and watch my spath still take advantage of his ex wife aunt and uncle. I pleaded to them about him and they don’t believe much of what Im saying. I had one piece of evidence that proved he had a fiance while dating me, and they just look at it like he is just a simple cheater. I have to watch as they plan to give him a down payment on his house. It hurts knowing that they are still out there deceiving others and there is nothing you can do about it because their brainwashing skills are so advanced. All we can do is try to live well, but easier said than done. Im thinking of you and hope you can get out of your financial issues.


I care if you keep going on.
We all care.
Very really care.
I don’t have any answers for you and your situation.
But I can tell you, you do want to keep going on.
You DO. You don’t know it sometimes, I can very much understand that, but you do want to. You will keep going on.
And things will work out as you go on.
Not prettily maybe, nor without pain.
But go on.
We all are here for here u 🙂


So very true Donna…thanks for giving us the courage to speak up and out. What others may think should in no way affect what we KNOW is fact. These people are just ignorant and shouldn’t be considered “friends” to begin with. Get on with regaining your former self-esteem. Thanks for all you do for victims of this devastating illness.

Donna, what I find so amazing about your site is the “direction.” Yes, we can share our stories, but you also offer ways to validate ourselves.

Not all “jerks” are sociopaths and that, I believe, is why it’s so difficult for the population at large to grasp. A con man who takes money isn’t quite as deadly as the sociopath who takes your money, decimates your sense of beingness, and harms your soul.

Your site is marvelous for the camaraderie and, too, it helps us each know we have to move forward – even if that means at the pace of one step forward, three steps back. It’s a process.

I personally am doing better, but the money issue is still a big one. Betrayal and fear became my world and I still have that pattern of upset…

And then, being MUCH older, without those rampaging hormones (grin), I don’t believe I am seeking a man in my life. And that permits me to look away from the concerns circulating around just “who the other is” in a romantic relationship. I think the romance component in a pathological encounter is such a deep betrayal.

I had not found compatible relationship partners in the past and that compounded my own sense of embarrassment and shame – along with unwillingness to share my own story. But NOTHING is like time with psychopathic entities.

Thank you for the site and I agree whole heartedly that the information about these beings in our midst is essential for our society.


I have been in a 30 year relationship (married almost 28 years) to a man I believe is likely a sociopath/NPD/BPD person. I have spent nearly our entire relationship initiating couples therapy. We are on our 14th therapist. We have been separated for the last year and 3months and have a child who is pre-teen. I will also add that I did take a full battery of tests to determine if I had BPD. During one of our therapy sessions 7 years ago I mentioned to the therapist that I read about NPD and felt my husband had it. She said “If he is NPD then you are BPD”. I did not walk…I ran to find a psychologist and get tested. I have zero PD and my psychologist also shared with me that I am very low on the “milestones”, so if I came into her office on my own asking to be tested, and she asked me the “milestone” questions, she ultimately would not have recommended testing. My husband had agreed to also be tested if I got tested. Surprise…he has never been tested. I have never experienced validation of any kind in therapy. I have been treated as though I am the identified patient. THis overall experience has additionally wounded me in ways I have difficulty describing. My husband has asked me to go back to our (recent) therapist. He says it is because I have never given him a chance to be the “sender” and that I have not been open to listening to him. Our current therapist specializes in imago and, while I believe in imago, it has become clear to me that my husband is using the principles, his charm, denial etc. to collude with yet another therapist to make me the “crazy” one. Therapy and marriage counseling? How in the world is therapy and/or marraige counseling ever helpful to the partner of a sociopath/npd/bpd? Why, when I bring up what I have learned, and state my concerns about these disorders, am I dismissed and invalidated? Why does the therapist continue therapy with a couple when one is saying they are being abused, and the therapist continues along as tho he/she is working with 2 non-disordered individuals and/or ultimately treats the non-disordered partner as tho he/she is the disordered one? confounding and abusive…that it my experience with therapists and marriage counselors


Please trust yourself. Victims can sometimes have traits of BPD but it is from the relationship, it is not you who are the sick one.



I can relate to your story and I’m sorry that you went through such abuse. So glad that you now are starting to get the big picture.

My Spath husband also joined me in counseling over the years. It was always to no avail. He is a manipulating bully and when the counselor would catch on, he would stop going. I agree with Donna, now that you know, let it go and move on. It’s the best thing for you and your child.

Remember, you are not the one with the problem. He is very disordered and your actions were in response.

Best wishes for breaking free!



The only thing wrong with you is you are still trying to make your relationship work…it will never work with a narcissist or a sociopath narcissist EVER!! Sorry to be so blunt but this is the fact. I have been exactly where you are trying and trying and trying to get the marriage on track..I felt like a was on a hamster wheel spinning to no where everyday…..I finally got off the hamster wheel and now know that no matter what women my ex h is with he will never have a normal, healthy, loving, respectful relationship or marriage. Took me 12 years, leaving several times, then to finally escape and found a counselor who opened my mind up from my ex h’s mind control to finally end my marriage and found a hormonal specialist to deal with my PTSD (highly common with victims of narcissistic abuse), now there is no way I would ever go back to him…my life is once again peaceful & calm & normal.

You must come to the realization that after 28 years of you trying to change yourself & him, trying to get help from a marriage counselor 14 times while your husband does nothing to change or truly try to change….that no matter how much marriage counseling the two of you get you are not going to correct his dysfunctional behavior.

At what point do you say ENOUGH with this crazy relationship?

The counselor who told you that if he was NPD then you are BPD is DEAD wrong about your assessment. That counselor clearly is not qualified to hold a license as she is doing more damage then actually helping you. Fire her immediately!! Find a individual counselor (not a marriage counselor) who is extremely knowledgeable with narcissistic abuse, to do this call your local abuse center and get a list of outside counselors then call each on the phone and interview them to see how knowledgeable they are and also to find one you feel comfortable with. You can call the National Domestic violence hotline 24/7 to get local abuse center numbers in the USA the # is 800-799-SAFE.

What is wrong with you? your mind has been controlled by a crazy man and because of this you know have PTSD. You have been gas lighted, had reward & punishment used on you, intimated, fears & phobia’s installed in your mind, brain washed, mind controlled have been hypnotized and traced, manipulated, lied to for 28 years….this is what that counselor is clueless about and she is clueless that he is doing the same to her. This is what uneducated counselors dont get. Narcissistic personality disorder and sociopathy disorders are very complex at how these evil people manipulate others not just their spouse.

My guess is you have a racing mind, high blood pressure, hormonal imbalance, difficulty making good decisions, anxiety, depression, possible panic attacks, hair loss, weight loss or gain, memory loss, exhausted, sleep issues, stressed to your max etc etc from all of the abuse you have been enduring for almost 30 years and this is what is causing you to feel emotional and feel like something is wrong with you mentally…but this is a physical issues called adrenal fatigue it is the leading issue with PTSD that is causing you to mentally feel out of control. A qualified counselor would tell you that you are suffering from PTSD not bpd. Adrenal fatigue (PTSD) can be healed that is the good news it takes time but it can be healed.

In the book Women who love psychopaths the author addresses that most therapist think that the victims is BPD when in fact they are NOT!!!

In Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of mind he states that domestic abusers are EXACTLY like cult leaders who use mind control literally to control their victims. You are being brain washing and mind controlled by your husband.

Dr Martha Stout states in her book The sociopath next door that even counselors can be narcissist, sociopaths & psychopaths so follow your gut when you meet one. I would stick with a female therapist since 1 in 5 people 75% men are narc and 1 in 25 people are sociopaths/psychopaths mainly men.

Google Gas lighting abuse (there is a good article on but read every thing on this subject…Donna has info right her on this subject too)

What can you do to heal?

1) find a good hormonal specialist and get tested for cortisol levels, vitamin & mineral deficiency, hormonal imbalance, thyroid issues….as all of this is a major factor with adrenal fatigue (PTSD). If you have thyroid issues according to Dr Wilson adrenal expert you also have adrenal fatigue and need to heal the adrenal fatigue first otherwise you can damage your thyroid. To find a good hormonal specialist ask friends and/or google “compounding pharmacy” with your city name then call them for a list of doctors or look on their websites some post doctors names. Within days of the right hormones, vitamins/minerals you will feel so much better and within a month you will start to feel great. My doctor gave me dr wilson’s adrenal vitamins 3 times a day (see his site) and progesterone pills (you may need this or some other hormonal replacement) it was shocking how much better I felt in days literally and within a month & a few months time.

2) look at sites like Dr wilson’s “” take his questionnaire, read, see his symptoms list

see see his symptoms list/read ****READ her book see her you tube videos read up on hormonal imbalance & adrenal fatigue

(you are also at the age where it is natural for hormones to get out of balance throw in the fact that you are connected to a crazy man and their is a very high chance you are suffering from this and once corrected you will move back to your old self)

3) go to your local abuse center for free counseling & women group meetings….(plus also a outside counselor) what you need to do is open your mind up from your husbands brain washing this will help with that.

4) DO NOT GO TO COUNSELING WITH YOUR HUSBAND only go to individual counseling yourself…tell him he needs to go to a different individual counseling himself (my guess is he will not do this because he thinks nothing is wrong with him). It is well documented that if you go to counseling with a narc or sociopaths they WILL manipulated the counselor with lies and smear campaign that the counselor will think you are the problem…knowledgeable counselors tell victims never to go to marriage counseling for this reason! DO not tell him who your counselor is other wise he may call that counselor with lies. With this Imago therapy your husband can be further brain washing you and the therapist would be clueless to this fact.

5) Read up on “no contact rule narcisisist” and “low contact rule” and follow this to break the emotional bond your husband has over you. It’s like an addiction and you need to go cold turkey to break free of him. See also facebook page One moms battle and after narcissistic abuse to learn more. If you dont have a facebook page open a fake email then a fake facebook account so that you can talk freely with out family/friends/your husband seeing what you are chatting about on these support sites for victims of narcissistic abuse. Follow this rule!!

6) Read Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of Mind see his site he might be a good person for you to contact to open up your mind from your husbands brain washing and mind control.

7) read Donna’s books plus read everything in the top margin on Lovefraud & be sure to watch the videos at the top too…everyday…this will open your mind up.

8) Make yourself priority now not your marriage.

9) Know that you deserves sooo much more out of your life then you are settling for right now.

It’s Time to set yourself Free!!!


Google Dr Wilson’s adrenal fatigue symptoms to find this blog on symptoms of adrenal fatigue:

In order to get a true grasp on stress, you first must learn how to recognize it in yourself. The mind, body and judgment are affected by stress in many ways, and they’re all directly tied to the physiological changes of the fight-or-flight response. There are no set signs and symptoms of stress, as these vary widely from person to person. Some experience primarily physical symptoms, like lower back pain, stomach problems and outbreaks on the skin. In others, the stress pattern centers around emotional symptoms, such as crying spells or hypersensitivity. For others, the changes mostly affect their behavior or thought processes. Below are some of the more common signs and symptoms of stress, broken down by category.

Cognitive Symptoms

Poor short-term memory
Difficulty focusing
Difficulty concentrating
Trouble thinking clearly
Poor behavior/being unlike one’s self
Focusing on the negative
Racing or anxious thoughts
Emotional Symptoms

• Constant worrying
• Fearful anticipation
• Agitation and moodiness
• Restlessness
• Short temper
• Irritability, impatience
• Inability to relax
• Feeling tense and “on edge”
• Feeling overwhelmed
• Sense of loneliness and isolation

Behavioral Symptoms

• Decrease in sex drive/libido
• Eating less or more then usual
• Habitual craving for salty or sweet foods
• Sleeping too much or too little
• Neglecting responsibilities
• Avoiding contact with others
• Using alcohol, tobacco, or drugs to unwind
• Nervous habits (e.g. pacing or nail biting)
• “Overdoing it” (e.g. exercising, working)
• Using caffeine to stay going
• Becoming argumentative or combative
• Overreacting to unexpected problems

Physical / Physiological Symptoms

• Chronic fatigue
• Tense pain in head and/or back
• Stiffness and tension in muscles
• Constipation or diarrhea
• Nausea, dizziness
• Difficulty sleeping/insomnia
• Increased heart rate/chest pain
• Increase or decrease in blood pressure
• Loss or gain in weight
• High or low blood sugar
• Skin conditions (e.g. eczema, hives)
• Frequent or prolonged colds


I can testify that correcting deficiencies and imbalances in nutrients, neurotransmitters and hormones makes a BIG difference!
I think GABA is a huge need for me.
I lay in my bed this a.m. and I’ve been very upset and sad for a few days now. I lay there and it was like I knew I was sad but I was calm and *OK*. I was aware of it but it was dulled somehow. Thats the only way to describe it.
I am thanking God for the adrenal formula ive been taking and the new formula with the GABA and theanine, etc.
I am still able to RELAX and that makes a huge difference. I am not frenetically walking daily. I am not QUITE so restless. I SAT last nite under a tree while it drizzled. I was still and just very sad.
I can just feel the emotions now and not get crazed by them. Maybe I can even process shyt now instead of just being tormented by the emotions. Get some relief.
I have other things I know I need done, like hormonal things. I havent the money to pursue it. If you have any sort of valid income DO IT. See a functional medicine doctor or informed ND. Get the testing, it’s worth it. It takes a long, long time to recover your body—6 mos to TWO YEARS if you’ve really wrecked ur body. Dont beat urself up tho, its not ur fault. Just go on. You will most likely feel better in a few WEEKS. It just can take alot longer to fully recover.


10Sne1 – I second the stay out of couples counseling. If you were at the women’s counseling center I work with there is NO way you would be advised to participate in couple’s therapy. In my 20 years with the center, I’ve only seen a handful of couples doing couples therapy. That came after both parties doing serious work in individual and group therapy with multiple evaluations by the therapists before couples therapy is considered and at that – the couples therapy is done with both of the participant’s individual counselors participating. Also, when in couple’s counseling, both parties continued with individual counseling. There were plenty of checks and balances in place before it was attempted. The focus being in maintaining a safe and therapeutic environment for both.

Just saying.


So Sorry to Hear About It

My story appears to be a bit different. And I would not have gotten involved with a sociopath were it not my extremely dysfunctional family of origin. Mother was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She went into my high school once, like a bat out of Hell, to ‘go after’ the person responsible for student affairs (a man). When I saw her coming through a hallway window (Thank God in time), I fled the building. People thought I had just gotten violently sick or saw a ghost. I saw a ghost all right.
Mom was livid because my sister’s submission for the yearbook cover was only second place and another student’s was chosen. My sister was a great artist and did amazingly well, but students chose the other submission.
I will never know what Mom said to the poor man that day, but I heard from students later, “We heard about your mother…God…she’s tough.”
Mr. Lekas, the man attacked, did not see me after graduation until 2001. He approached me in a store and said, “Barbara…I think I figured out why you were so timid and quiet throughout school. I met your mother.”


Hi Barb, I am also the daughter of a narcissist. One who was so narcissistic she made the sociopath look good by comparison. Lucky me, my mother was also a substitute teacher at my school and I often found myself in class with her. I had one young man, whom I had a crush on for years, tell me that he was too afraid of my mother to ever ask me out.

Little wonder I married the first guy who stood up to her. Unfortunately for me, I married and eventually divorced the much more evil version of my mother. He built on the damage my mother had already instilled in me.

The fun came in dealing with my mother’s funeral. So many people told me how wonderful a person my mother was and how many wonderful things she told them about me? All of which was news to me. If my mother had said even a small percentage of the things I was told at her funeral to my face I might have spent less time in therapy.

Disordered people do the damage and we end up picking up the pieces of ourselves to survive.



I have read many times, in different places, that therapy with a personality disordered is NOT RECOMMENDED. It is extremely rare for the non-disordered partner to gain any benefit, and generally results in more trauma and invalidation.

Many therapists are simply ill-equipped (just like the rest of us) to identify that they are being lied to and manipulated. Just because they have a degree, training, and an office doesn’t mean they can ‘spot’ PD’s. They are also vulnerable.

My therapist friend, who knows A LOT about psychopathy, etc…ended up dating a personality disordered man and losing her house and lots of $. Not to mention her sanity. This was someone who helped me, when I was involved with a psychopath. She identified him by my descriptions.

The point is that the disordered individual will do ANYTHING they feel they can safely get away with to WIN. Destroying their partners happiness is the least of their worries. Lying is a daily activity. Therapy is a joke to them, and only another tool they can use to deceive people and cause pain and heartbreak.

If you are certain your ex is disordered then follow Donna’s advice. Stop with any therapy, and any contact that is not absolutely needed. Go through an attorney if you are able.

I doubt any of these therapists is trying to harm you….but they will because they cannot recognize they are being used to harm you. Just stop going. You do not owe anyone an explanation. You can be in charge of your own life…though I know after 30 years of being caught up in his web of betrayals and manipulations you may feel at a loss as to how to make your own decisions. But you can.

I am glad you found your way to Lovefraud. This place is a LIFE saver.




Just one more thing. I also thought I had BPD. My therapist (who I never went to with the disordered partner) said I was ABSOLUTELY not BPD, but had severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which can look a lot like BPD. Especially if a person has been involved with someone toxic for a long period of time.



In speaking to our own healing, of the many benefits of this site is the ability to individually manage our healing. When I started, I thought that recovery would be a straight arrow leading me to that blessed day that I could say, “I’m done now.” It hasn’t happened that way.

While recovery has been an onward and upward kind of thing, it has also been a spiraling circular experience. There are periods of time where I am actively working towards recovery followed by periods of calm reflection. As time has continued the times of active work are smaller and the times of calm have increased giving way to just living life as it comes.

The beauty of this site is the ability to “check in” when I’m feeling that feeling I cannot describe but always leads me to this site. I read what others are talking about and experiencing. Sometimes I am caught evaluating my recovery with some perspective of having been there and done that where other times I am back in my process.

What I love is that wherever I am, from one comment to the next, they all help me move forward. I hope others are finding their way to move forward in their experiences here.


I am 9 months out of a 30 yr involvement with a sociopath. All i can say is i could be writing what you’ve written. i always thought just get out of this and everything will be fine. Wow!! was i in for surprise. My drinking got 10x worse…I could not motivate myself to do anything. I would spend all the time i could just drinking and sitting in a chair wondering what the hell happened. I was beginning to think maybe my husband was right, i was crazy and couldnt do anything on my own. Then through some very good advice, I contacted a Behavior Health Therapist. She has saved my life. She knew where i was coming from. And what i’d been through. i’ve been seeing her weekly for 7 months now. I am going to make it! At least an hour a day I will sit outside in my rocking chair and just sit. It is so great to not have the anxiety that used to be there all the time. And when it does creep up, which can be often, i just think “he’s not here, and he wont be here. Relax, he cant hurt me anymore.” Prayers for you, Bets.

I absolutely agree that it is important to talk about experiences with sociopaths in order to expand the awareness in the public about such people. In our society, there is a presumption that sociopath is reserved for the Jeffrey Dahmers of the world. So when you tell someone that you were in a relationship with one, they think there is no way you were with a Dahmer-like person. The stories you tell them won’t reconcile with their thoughts of sociopath. The stories we tell will help overcome this.


These stories are so similar I have to ask myself why did it take me so long to find this site. I have three confirmed sociopaths in my family. There is a genetic component so this occurs more than we know. They gaslighted me for 20 years. I was being treated for depression when the diagnosis should have been PTSD because I was being terrorized. They manipulated my doctors by telling them misleading things. I actually believed I was the crazy one.
Psychiatrists rely on family members too much. They assume the family has genuine concern for the patient. In my case I gave up and stopped trusting the doctors. Someone was watching over me because I found a new doctor after the old one died. The new guy took three years to diagnosis. He took the time to know each family member..he figured out the twisted perverse family dynamic.
Psychiatrists are taught about anti social personality disorder but are not taught how sociopaths differ from psychopaths. Both kill, sociopaths just drive you to kill yourself. Bernie Madoff is responsible for many suicides including his own son yet they are never tried for those crimes.


I always say to any naysayers, Ignorance is bliss. And look at them knowingly. Almost patting their heads:
becuz theyre acting like such smug idiots!
They get it. They really do.
MAYBE *they* dont know EVERY frikkin thing.
What a concept.
I dont explain myself. I simply let them know on a deep level, they should be very thankful they can’t understand.

When you said ” Both kill, sociopaths just drive you to kill yourself.”,you said a mouthful!!!

Just this morning I was talking with a friend about my husband,whom I’ve had no contact with for a year and 7 monthes.In a few days we’ll both be attending a huge event,and traveling on the same bus.She was calming me down.I found out that he’ll be on the bus because he calls my dad several times daily hoping to get information about me.My dad won’t give him any;but will use any tidbit he can to forewarn me so that I have time to prepare…no surprises!

Is it necessary to keep talking about our experiences with sociopaths?! YES! Not only does it educate others,but it serves as a reminder to us of what we’ve been through!The mind has a funny way of ‘deleting bad memories’ and remembering so-called better times…which can be a bad thing when around a sociopath!!!


Confession! I’m ashamed but need to get this off my chest. I did 6 months no contact with my sociopath ex (separated husband). After an accidental meeting in a shop he keeps texting me. I know for a fact he has multiple partners. He persuaded me to let him come round to my house for a ‘visit’ but he got me drunk and he stayed the night etc.!!! I am so ashamed of myself. I was ill the day after and (being a sociopath) he didn’t care. Just went home. Texted me 2 days later. It’s hard to explain how I have such difficulty keeping him away. He is so persuasive and persistent. I find I have to make excuses and lie to him to delay the next visit. He knows I’m being checked at the doctors for high blood pressure so I could tell him I won’t be drinking alcohol because of that – if I dare. I hope he doesn’t come round anyway, drink himself and expect to stay the night. I just find it so difficult to refuse him as I give in to his sweet talk. I hate the man for being what he is. I feel like he’s laughing at me because he knows he sleeps with others too. It seems like he values the amount of bedfellows rather than looking for one to settle with. But then, if he did, he wouldn’t be a sociopath would he? Ashamed and angry at myself.


Kathleen, you fell off the wagon because you are human. Please forgive yourself. You can still turn this around and even turn it into something positive – a life lesson about no-contact. It is not just a suggestion. It is essential to your survival. So set the clock back again, and this time, don’t give in to the addiction. He is not in control of your life – you are. You can beat this addiction.

I don’t know your situation, but if there is any way possible, you may want to consider changing your number and even moving out of town, so you don’t tempt fate. And now you have to wait a little while and get yourself tested for STD’s. Ugh – they are such miserable creatures. You deserve so much better than this.

Anyway, no one here will judge you – we’ve all been there.


Thanks Stargazer. Yes, I must try harder. Back to the drawing board, square one. I’m thinking gray rock method now. Even that is difficult as he is such an ‘angel’ and sweet talks everyone into believing he’s nice. I know I don’t love him now especially as he’s fake. He abused me, got me emotionally dependent on him to get my life savings and cheated and lied so many times. He knows I’m the opposite to him – hope it doesn’t sound immodest – I’m generous to a fault, fall for sob stories and try to see good in people. I know what he did to me. I will have to get tested again and feel guilty even though I have only been with him in the last 8 years and nobody else. I feel like I’m being judged. He’s good at shifting the blame so I can’t confront him – on anything. He used to have a saying about his ‘cruel’ ex’s ‘what you do, I do it better.’ Now I know what he meant – if you dare to challenge him, beware the consequences. Thanks Stargazer – gray rock – I will do my best!


Yes, please go get yourself tested. I decided to after I found out about my Narc and guess what, the bastard gave me Herpes, that I KNOW I didn’t have prior to him. That messed me up even more and now I feel nasty. I’m like this is another thing to deal with just wondering when I meet someone again would he be strong enough to love me for me and deal with my issue. This is a hard blow for me.


I just got tested yesterday and I was so angry when I entered the office. It put me steps back in trying to move on because all I could think about is that Im still having to spend money and worry about my health over this jerk. My ex spath kept giving me BV and had no remorse in watching me suffer back and forth with antibiotics. I just got over BV again when I found out he had a fiance.

I got a std test in the winter and it was negative so I am praying my results come back negative again this week. But I know that I will have to go again in 6 months. He was so gross, and spaths that see several women are just nasty.

Now Im also waiting to get my period, it was supposed to come today and hasn’t yet. Im just thinking all the stress of the past two weeks may make it late. I don’t know what I will do if Im pregnant. I know I would have the baby but I will not let him know, he would be to destructive to a child and not worth it that I would rather do it all myself.

I feel like I can’t even have some physical peace right now, he is still making my life a hassle even after I left him in subliminal ways


You will be able to cope no matter what the results. I know you can do this! It’s terrible of him to do this to you but you can overcome whatever it is.
Just get thru each day right now. Nothing is critical right now but staying away and getting your head on straight and your heart untangled.
Your period will come. It is highly likely the stress is affecting your hormones. Drinking, smoking and other drugs are not good no matter what, so dont do it if you can possibly not do it.
Keep writing on here and reading. This will save your sanity 🙂


Southerngirl do not feel nasty, HSVII is very common. I have had it since i was in my late 20s. A guy, who knew he had it mind you, gave it to me. This was someone i KNOW too. He’s never understood what a horrible thing that was to do. Even if it IS common it’s still my right to decide to proceed with the relationship.
Anyway, it’s manageable. It’s wrong of him to do it, but your emotional issues are going to be worse, i daresay, than coping with the herpes.
I have had several partners since then and never passed it to them. Nor to my kids (which i worried about with the older ones) even in utero or in labor. Life can be ok even with HSVII.


yes even after 6 months we, being normal human beings, still love. we have to be very strong and say NO. NO MATTER WHAT.
You are human dearheart. He is a monster. He is the horror, not you. You know you can’t believe his words or sweet actions. You want to tho. I get that. It’s not wrong to want to believe someone. you want to be loved.
he’s just never going to love you, he never did.
next time you will be stronger.
and the next time and the next time. it WILL get easier each time you say NO.
i am rooting for you to say no next time. ~hugs~


Kathleen, I think every victim of a sociopath has broken the no contact rule at least once…not because they contacted the sociopath but because the sociopath contacted them and manipulated the victim so that they broke the no contract rule!

Today starts day 1 of your no contact rule! (again 😉

On the facebook page After narcissistic abuse there is always a post saying “I broke the no contact rule and answered his phone call”. It happens. now you know that you must not let him contact you or if you see him in public RUN. If he comes to your home DONT answer the door really just dont answer the door. Block his phone number asap and change your email. That way you have control of the situation.

They screw with the victims mind the first second they meet them and form a addiction for the victims. He is your drug of choose at the moment so you have to go cold turkey again. Dont beat yourself up they are masters of manipulation and can suck anyone and everyone into their con game, you are just educated now so use all you have learned to fight evil mentally now.

When you feel weak and want to talk with him come here and vent on the first post you find, get it out (it really does help) you can always delete the post later if you want…also sites like the path forward & facebook after narcissist abuse are good sites to vent when your ex is hovering back around your new life.

if you google “no contact rule narcisiist’ there is a good article on discussing breaking the emotional bond…I am sure Donna has a good article on the subject too right here.

Ps the source of your high blood pressure is him! (check into adrenal fatigue as the root physical body issue for your high blood pressure) see,,


I agree that you have to talk about your experiences, I have tried though, to friends/colleagues, and like you guys might know, they look at you blankly, or think that you are making it up…I get: HOW do you KNOW he is a sociopath/narc? You are not a psychologist…or I think you guys were just not compatible…My mom was married to a sociopath/alcholic…I actually asked her the same question…Could you not see it coming? I mean really, how long were you together before you got married? She said 2 years, and no he was the “charming, romantic guy” as we all know. 30 yearrs down the line, I have a child with a Narc…and I feel the same way…HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS? History repeated itself…the only difference is, my dad beat my mom, so it was more physical than emotional…mine is ALL Emotional…What really hurts ist the fact that I try to talk to her, my sister, but it is like they get fed up….My mom has the “get-over-it” attitude (because she could walk away) and those years it was easier….not the laws are on the both parents side and I cant…I am stuck with a emotional manupilator who treats his daugther as a “trophee” and nothing more…he tries to impress his parent/colleagues and the new gf with the “doting dad” act….and sometimes I feel like SCREAMING…Why does nobody believe me… I talk, but I have stopped…I get sighs, rolling of eyes and the disbelief look…or the GET OVER IT attitude…and it hurts…Not sure what to do anymore!


Hi wondering77. That’s why we’re all on here! We’ve all suffered terrible traumas and even our families don’t understand. They even give excuses for the abuses – maybe he thought it was ok, maybe taking your money was only sharing to him – maybe that’s how they behave in Africa. You should have known straight away. Why did you marry him? Are you so stupid? He left almost 3 years ago and he still tries the abuse to keep control of me. But as soon as he left my brother and his wife behaved as though that was the end and I’m over it with nothing better to do than help them! So we have to come here for help.


Thank you Kathleen, you are right, I guess it is ONLY people who have experienced it that understands, TRULY understands…I have a best friend who keeps on telling me that she thinks I was “the one” for him….and the more I tell her, YEAH, maybe the BEST NARC SUPPLY…but not LOVE..she just does not GET IT! Nobody does!


They also want to know all about you if they haven’t seen you for a while. But they keep their own life secret. It’s the control they don’t want to lose. They are afraid of being exposed for what they are too. But, yes, they do want their supply – money, food, sex, shelter. They’re fakes and promiscuous, lying parasites.


You know Kathleen, you are so right, could not have put it any better…FAKE, PROMISCUOUS, LYING PARASITES…he hooked me sexually (off course) and at the beginning of his new relationship, told met they were just friends, and they are not sleeping together…In a sense I believed him, because this poor new gf was left at the altar 3 weeks before her wedding and apparently went through a nervous breakdown…so what happened? We kept on sleeping together…I realized I did it for 2 reasons…but reason nr one was for him to come see his child…but it was not for HER he was there, but for me (the sex) sad but true…that was the way of me making sure he sees her….I realize that if I stop sleeping with him, I wonder if he will still come in the week on the odd day to come see her…(I THINK NOT!!) This is all so sad, and it hurts me…she is such a beautiful, wonderful little girl, who he clearly feels nothing for but a fake pretence for his parents, colleagues and new gf….Not sure what to do…he was very clever…kept me hooked, (so I dont move on and meet someone new) and getting his satisfaction, AND “seeing his daughter” so this all looks SO GOOD… Yeah, ashamed to say, but obviously I enjoyed it too…but 60% of the time I did not want to sleep with him anymore…I did it out of playing his sick mind games back…knowing that I have him LITERALLY by the balls whenever a court case, threats or custody battles had to come up…so that was reason nr 2…Sometimes if you cant beat them, you have to join them…to the detriment of me, my emotional health and sanity I know…but I must say, I am stronger…and ready to start dating…the problem is just, do I attract another spath/narc? I will die!! I think that is what happened to this new gf…she attracted him 3 months after her wedding was cancelled…so what to day hey? I have difficulty in trusting myself/my gut when it comes to love and relationships now..


Dear wandering

Try to find those friends that will listen and not make you feel crazy, even if it is just one. Sometimes mothers, who are older than us, grew up with that attitude of just get over it. When I lost my daughter at 8 months, that wasn’t explicitly said, but I got a lot of, “everything happens for a reason”. I just wanted someone to listen and not tell me that loosing my baby happened for a reason. Some people, as I learn in my support group for grieving parents, just don’t know what to appropriately say when things like this happen. Its best to just not divulge your constant battle in moving on to these people who judge you. Even if you don’t have a friend in person there, you have us, we won’t judge you.

After I told some people about what happen with my spath I got a lot of “just try to not think about it”. I wanted to explode. I have two friends I can rely on heavily and I just stick to those people, they will listen even if it is months from now. Even friends not asking how you are moving on and how it is going can suck. They forget so quickly that you need support from everyone. Some people just have that mentality to move on quicker or they fake it, but not everyone is wired that way.

Also I find journaling a great release, you are getting out your anger and frustrations and no one is responding to you or judging you. Hope this helps and stay strong!


Hi Downwitfakerastas, I have one friend at work who I speak to, sometimes it helps, but other times I think she thinks I over-exagerate..she will say: He is just a “weird guy”…lol! Yeah, WEIRD does not begin to describe it…I am TRULY sorry for your loss…I have a 1.5 year old daughter and I could not begin to imagine the pain you must have experienced in losing your daughter at such a young age. I am not sure what happened, not sure if you said in previous posts, but my heart goes out to you! I agree, “things happen for a reason” is true in SOME regards, but losing a baby…not sure how you can compare that saying to that…that is just in-sensitive! Yeah, it is true, some people can move on quicker, I am unfortunatley one of those who analyse everyting, trying to suss it all out, speak about it, and read up on about it…reading helped A LOT! The best book I have bought is Psychopath Free by Peace. It is thin book, easy to read, and when I read it it was like I was reading about my own life and experiences. It is soooo helpful!


The last job I had, which happened to be a state position, was the fateful and ‘finalization’ of all of my job experiences. Imagine, case managers who are trained to detect and help the vulnerable and incoherent, were aware of my condition. True, my skills were not applicable to the situation and I failed the most important part of this job.
People saw me (and told me) that I was ‘broken’ and had a ‘miserable’ life. They knew just by looking at me.
One reason, I think, is that the entire weight of my disastrous condition had culminated in a ‘final twist of fate’. Too bad I took the position; I was inept and developed a case of Tourette’s Syndrome. Anything and everything came out of me…some funny and other things downright outrageous.
If I quit, as they wanted me to, where would I go? No job…no benefits. Quite possibly starvation…my spouse’s income would only last so long. And here it is. I have remained unemployed. Unemployed due to horrific conditions in the family of origin; to the outside world we looked ‘great’ (at least my siblings did), but my entire generational gathering scapegoated me for all the prior and existing ills that they perceived. Treated me as less than human (the family dog got more attention). Walked all over me. Bullied me psychologically and emotionally. And it just kept coming. My voice was drowned out, my feelings disregarded. In the middle of three brothers, who just saw me as another ‘hockey puck’ that they could slam around whenever they felt like it. They lived, ate, breathed hockey.
My entire set of ‘paper dolls’ (popular back then) of Haley Mills was ripped to shreds. No one defended me, in fact, my mother was the perpetrator. She was haughty and conniving. Her mother (the grandmother from Hell) was manipulative and over-sexed. Yes…I had an over-sexed grandmother who said inappropriate things, both in private and within earshot of everyone around. My parents did not see anything wrong with her harassment and daily attacks. The very life in our home was sucked away by this one person who should have been with people her own age, going on bus trips or at least mingling with other senior citizens.
My parents were ‘wusses’ who could not set boundaries. We were in junior and senior high school, for God’s sake! We needed the attention of our parents, but my grandmother got it all! She could do no wrong. Other people…my brothers girlfriends, wives, even the cleaning woman saw through the situation and it was not long before these women stopped seeing my brothers. One brother has been married four times and is working on a fifth. Another brother was divorced twice. All it would have taken was a ‘sit-down and explain’ to our grandmother that we needed space…my mother could have/should have told her nicely that her children needed her (I was failing four subjects in 7th grade…no dates, no parties, no anything), but they put it all aside for this sick woman. If Mom had only said to her mother, “Mom, it is always great to see you (NOT), but my kids need my attention. They are struggling. If you could stay home for one day a week,that would free me up to try to help them.” That never happened.
Probably because I was the one who clearly needed help, much more than the others, so if I was the ‘culprit’ to begin with than why should they help? That is how crazy people can get. We see it in politics all the time. Someone has to take the blame…which also gives that someone a LOT of power. Gee…I was responsible for the sick mess, even for the generations past (people I never met and never would meet…I took the blame for their failings and illness).
I only visited my parents’ grave once and it was horrendous. I immediately felt an ‘anti-magnetic push’, like I could not approach the grave site at all. I remember feeling like I would topple over…their very condemnation surrounded me and made me overwhelmed, guilty, and ashamed. The shame was like a thick fog surrounding me.
The narcissism of my grandmother and parents had reached a toxic level so high that breathing the air (sick air) was like being buried alive.
I went on to marry a man who is like my mother, a narcissist, and they say that this happens. Oh, goodie…we get to live like we did as children and young adults. All over again.


I was married for 11 years and my ex closed out our bank account, made my life miserable around the house by verbally, emotionally, and financially abusing me. I finally left 2 years ago. At first I was doing fine not speaking to him and moving on with my life. Once he saw this, he would lure me back in with a few crumbs of affection (sleeping with me), and then would start an argument and blame it on me. He said I crave chaos and that I am crazy. For 2 years he has been jerking me around (because he knows I fall for it) he sleeps with me and then turns into a monster again. He gives me the silent treatment, and tells me to stay away if I don’t like it. In March, I picked up our son from his house and found out from a card on signed your wife XXXX. He didn’t even tell his children that he got married. Meanwhile, he was sleeping with me the whole time. When I asked him if he was married he said, “who says I’m married?” He was actually going to lie again. Again, I fell for his lies and went to pick up my son and his wife showed up (after he said he’s divorcing her) and he told me to leave and that he’s getting a restraining order. I was treated like I was trespassing, even though he had been pursuing me. My family is angry with me and said they don’t understand why I can’t just stay away. I don’t understand it either. I want him to admit that what he did was wrong. I want to tell his wife what he’s been doing, but then he threatens me with a restraining order and that he is going to ruin my career. He has even gone as far as threatening rape charges (which is absolutely absurd) this is the most awful lie he can come up with. I can’t stop thinking about how wrong this was and that I don’t understand how anyone can treat someone this way. I keep trying to get an explanation from him, but he refuses. Why can’t I just make a clean break? My son is even starting to speak to me the way his dad does. This isn’t good for my son to see, and it’s affecting my health and job.


Tforgeo….wow your post really breaks my heart I can hear your pain in your words 🙁

We have all been manipulated by these evil guys…your husband and all the rest of these type people are con artist…your ex is very masterful at manipulating you, using projection, blame shift, pathological lying, gas lighting you. brain washing, mind controlling you on and on. He is very text book with his mind games.

Know that he is the one that “craves chaos” and he is also the one who is “crazy” not you. He is projecting these on to you to push you over your emotional limit and also using gas lighting abuse to change your perspective.

I highly recommend that you educate yourself on all the tricks these guys do until you feel like you have earned a phd…this is when you will be able to not get sucked into his con game. Donna’s site is a encyclopedia worth of info start with her videos posted at the top red/grey margin then read everything in this section of the site over and over and over again plus her bookds. Sites like psychopathyawareness.wordpress also has good info. Google “gas lighting abuse” for info on this.

First you have to learn about “no contact rule narcissiist” and “low contact narcisiist” (second one with with kids) but most importantly follow it. NEVER talk with him on the phone from this day forward, no texting only emails about your child unless it’s a true emergency. Keep the emails short and to the point save all the emails maybe even open a new email acct just to deal with him/your children’s issues ie “I will meet you at Starbucks at 2 pm for you to pick up your children”. NEVER answer any ranting emails from him, never put your emotions into your return email to him and never answer any email right way this way again you can keep all emotions out of the emails.

Do this for two reasons 1) to keep you emotionally disconnected from him = so he cant suck you into his game 2) for court reasons meaning if you ever have to go back to court with him then you have proof of all of your contact and you also look like you can be trusted. If your kids are old enough to run out to the car when he comes to pick them up then do that but if they are still young then always meet him in a public place to exchange the kids…if you go to his home to pick up the kids do not get out of the car or roll down your window to chat with him…only email him. Start setting strong boundaries…you can google ’setting boundaries” and also check out books at the library on how to do this too. No contact rule is a necessity when dealing with these sociopath.

Know that He is very afraid that you are going to tell his wife that is why he is threatening you. This is why he is threatening you with a restraining order. Stay away from him because he may just go to court and lie about everything to get this enforced. Keep a journal of all contact with him when dropping off the kids…best to bring a friend/family member as a witness. NEVER ever trust a sociopath!!!

You are NEVER going to get him to admit to wrong doing ever…the best closure for you is knowing that he is a disordered man that is your closure. He has ZERO conscience unlike you. This is why he feels nothing when he hurts others.

As for telling his new wife…I am all for honesty but when dealing with a narcissist or sociopath narc you must really weight the loss…just know he has planted seeds of doubt in her mind about you from day one…..meaning he has most likely stated something to her like “you cant trust anything my ex says” etc this is called a smear campaign google “smear campaign narcisisist” & “smear campaign sociopath”. I think the best thing for now would be to wait for her to come to you…if she does tell her what transpired and that you are sorry for hurting her but you did not know about her until such and such time then you stopped sleeping with him. But this is up to you, you know the situation best and should go with your gut on this one.

Sociopaths and narcissist manipulate their victims from day one to form an addiction with the victims much like drug/alcohol addictions…so this is why you are still no contact/low contact with him…this is why you need to use the “no contact rule” & “low contact rule” to break this emotional bond addiction. Just like a drug or alcohol addiction you need to stop the source of the addiction…in your case that is your ex you need to go cold turkey. On there is a good explanation of why you need to go no contact plus Donna has info on this site too.

You might want to chat with Donna on the phone I know she has a service where you can chat with her for a small fee….it might help you to see things a little more clearly.

When I look back at how I participated in my ex h’s crazy behavior meaning just going along with it to have peace & calmness at home…I think of this saying: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein

Everday I beleived my ex h’s lying words..I expected him to follow through on his words.

Albert Einstein’s statement reminds us not to get suck in a pattern of thinking and hope that things will change for you, you are hoping your ex is going to become honest, kind, a good man..this is never going to happen….this is why we MUST be the ones to make the change to stop the negative patten…in your case the cycle of abuse. He is still emotionally, mentally,& verbally abusing you the only difference is he is married to a new victims while string you along still as the other women. He may have many other women on the side too.

Know that You deserve so much better then what you are getting by having this extremely manipulative man still in your life.

Wishing you all the best!


Thank you for your advice and all of the resources. It helps to know that I am not alone.


tforgeo, I remember feeling so alone in my marriage and once I left and found support sights online it felt good to know that I was not alone like you. Take what works for you in my post…I just post all that helped me in my healing journey for you/others to decide what is best for your situation.

You are going to be ok when you finally detach from him. It’s hard at first but when you do you will find that life is much easier without him and very calm, peaceful & normal.

Keep coming here to vent especially when you want to talk with him or meet him.. it really does help and we all get what you are going through.

I want you to know that we hear you….Take care 🙂


tforgeo – I have a question for you. If your husband answers all of your questions… will it change anything for you? Is there anything he can possibly say that will erase the pain you feel? I understand the need for answers. The problem is you are dealing with a sociopath to who lacks a moral compass. Lacking shame, remorse, morals, etc… he can tell you what you want to hear or tell you something else entirely like “I did it because the sky was blue that day.” It won’t matter to him. He isn’t driven by the emotions and feelings that you have. He is driven by a disorder.

Fact is… no matter what his answers might be they will not change what has happened to you. You need to concentrate on YOU not him. I know it’s hard. I’ve been there and done that as many of us have been or are working towards. You cannot fix him. He is broken and cannot be fixed. There is no introspection for him to do. He will lie and not care about it. He does what he does and he’s been doing it all of his life. He loves drama. It excites him. He is a skilled manipulator – that is all you need to know. His current wife is drinking his Kool-aid. She cannot be fixed either at least not until she is ready and until she is ready contacting her is pointless.

You want to understand why he treats you this way? The simple answer is because he can.To him you are a toy to be played with on his terms. The question for you is; Are you ready to stop being toyed with? Are you ready to claim your life?

I can tell you that setting strong boundaries and keeping them is the hardest and eventually best thing you can do. If it helps, think of him as something you need to give up for Lent. Give up as much contact as you possibly can. Stick to it. Start with a goal of 40 days and add to it as you become better and better at it. Keep in mind that he will do anything to keep the drama going. You will have to do all you can to not participate.

You don’t have to answer his phone calls. He can talk to a machine. You can take your time to decide if you need to respond at all – stick to business. You don’t have to let him into your house. Your house is yours! You have a right to be safe in it.

Think of this as a business relationship when you are managing the children… it’s as a business deal. Keep it professional. Stay out of drama. Sticking to email communication makes it easier to edit. Write down what you want to say and then edit down to the bare bones of the business at hand which is managing the children. You don’t have to respond to anything immediately. Take your time. Think about all communications before you hit send – are there any unnecessary words or comments or is it just about the business at hand?

I feel for you!!! I’ve been where you are. I understand. If Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus… he’s from Uranus! I know it’s hard. It will probably get worse before it gets better. Eventually, it will get better.


Thank you so much for your support! It makes so much sense when you say these things. I feel strong during some parts of the day, but then I start panicking and end up texting him of calling him, which always makes me feel worse. It’s good to know that other people have survived and are at peace now.


I agree with you Bets. I really want to follow the advice too. Mine cut contact with me and I was so relieved. Then he contacted me again and blamed me (blame shifting). Then he arranged to meet me after a few months and didn’t show up so I cut contact for 6 months and it was wonderful getting on with life. Then after 6 months he spotted me and it all started again. He pressures me into sex (sexual abuse?) by saying he wants to come round to have a drink with me. I’m too afraid to say no. He tells people whenever he has new ‘friends’ (his word for his many sex partners) I don’t know I get jealous and stop speaking to him. Not true. He thinks I love him and I’m jealous. I wish I could stand up to him and tell him I don’t love him (fake) and to stay away from me. It’s true – setting strong boundaries is really difficult. I think subconsciously I’m thinking of his slander and belief that if I cut contact again I’ll be viewed as jealous through my wanting him back, but it’s not true. I know he’ll want to come round again. I make excuses for a while until I can’t make any more and have to let him come round.


Uranus!!!! I love it!
Perfect 🙂


The spath is the same way; instead of denial…who says that?? He wasn’t even diverting. He wanted to squash whomever wud dare foul up his facade. Used to hurt me that he didn’t even recognize the accusation but only wud be wanting to kill. My feelings were of no consequence. If pressed he’d offhandedly he’d say no, it’s not true, duh. And go on raising hell till he found out who was slandering him. Yeah rite.


How about being blamed for everything that happens in your marriage simply because you are a man! Men are constantly accused of being violent because at some point they punch a wall or knocked something off a counter. However NOBODY is considering that they may be living with someone that has no BORDERS and continues to provoke, lie and manipulate everyone in the household! And because that person is a WOMAN, they are presumed to be abused by their current husband!

This is especially important today when people are getting married later in life. Both may have had several relationships and may have been married before. Men with HERO complex may make excuses for a woman’s behavior because she claims to have been abused by prior relationships. After a while though, he finds she is the emotional abuser. His pleas for help fall on deaf ears simply because he is a man and he MUST be doing something to cause her behavior. Well, everyone woman does not have a right to act out simply because she believes she was scorned in some way.

If the man actually does everything society tells him, be cooperative, sensitive, forgiving, change your expectations and more, he ends up as a doormat. These women then trample him and use every single opportunity to push him down even more.

Then the guy goes to divorce court as a warn out broken man, diagnosed with anxiety and depression disorders and the courts slam him to the ground even more taking away everything and giving it to this psychopath woman who has done nothing but cheat, lie and manipulate her entire life! Then they wonder why the guy is suicidal or commits suicide. Gee… go figure!


We know it works both ways. There just happens to be a high proportion of female sufferers on here. It feels the same for me when I see comments about divorce – she’ll take him to the cleaners etc. But the actual truth is I met my (separated) husband, I paid from the first date, the marriage, bills, food, cars, his clothes, everything. As soon as my lifesavings were spent he found another meal ticket. He’s cheated and lied the whole time. People feel sorry for him because he is a sociopath and shifts the blame to the innocent party. So when I read about women getting a good deal after a divorce it’s the same thing. We’re both reduced to welfare but he wants alimony from me. See – it works both ways. He is also abusive and violent and has given me 2 STDs. I am afraid of him. I’m sure there are many men in that position and I sympathise and know how bad it feels. That’s what we’re all here for. Good luck.


I think their is a high percentage of spoiled rotten, lying women who are given freedom to behave anyway they want. And then when something happens, they blame their husbands. They take no responsibility for their actions and society does not hold women accountable, period. My wife sings the poor me song claiming she was abused by all her boyfriends.

So either she has bad taste in men and gets screwed or good taste in men and abuses them. There seems to be a twisted perspective that all women are abused by men.

This is all because of woman’s lib! Women want equal rights, but not equal responsibility for their actions. Then when they are lying, manipulating, disrespectful, contemptuous bitches, all they have to do is very easily sabotage their husband by getting him to throw keys across the room (someone told me they were arrested for this). Then the guy gets labelled as an violent person.

I was a happy, proactive, optimist working on my career and practicing martial arts. I gave and gave and gave until I wasn’t even the person I thought I was. Then our society comes in and puts the final nail in the coffin. I say to hell with this world, this country and all this shit. It’s meaningless, pointless crap. I never see my son anymore, I’ve been completely destroyed by this women. You can call me week or bad, it just doesn’t matter any more.


jmmira – you aren’t alone. You see more pronouns for males because women tend to be more willing to report domestic violence. It’s hard to get representative numbers of male abuse victims due to the shaming that often happens to males who are abused. Their maleness is questioned in their inability to deal with some little ole gal.

There are many men who fall victim to female sociopaths. Most men are trained from a very young age that it is never OK to hit a woman. What is interesting is that the men who take that to heart become easier prey for violent women. We have a dear friend who has been dealing with just such an issue. He married a woman who “needed him”. She turned out to be a sociopath who simply needed someone to manipulate. We thought there might be problems in their marriage, but had no clue as to the depths of dysfunction he had become mired in until he started talking after they separated. It doesn’t help that the she pronoun in his case happens to be a family member of ours. As it happens, she manipulated all of us.

When you read these stories just adjust the pronouns. It all applies. Women can be as violent as men. Women are capable of inflicting crippling injuries as easily as men can. The destruction and manipulation of sociopaths knows no boundaries including using programs that benefit women affected by domestic violence as a tool to discredit an actual victim of her violence. It isn’t right or fair, but it does happen. For professionals dealing with these issues, it takes time to sort out who’s who. It eventually comes to the surface.

You aren’t alone. You have been manipulated by someone who was supposed to be a loving partner, not an adversary. Take care of you. Please don’t give up. Life does get better.


My divorce was final on June 9th. I am still trying to process the train that came down the tracks and wacked me up the side of the head. Most days I think I’m ok, but then here comes the train today and my mind starts up.

I found out my 53 year old ex has been taking up with a 30 year old. In fact last week they were leaving a restaurant together as I was walking in! Actually, I believe this happened for a reason, so I had some validation that I actually was not going crazy.

Today I just seem so full of anger. I want to call up all of his friends and family and let them know who my ex really is. I want to tell them all the lies he told me. I want to tell them about all of the deceit. I want to tell them that I thought I was the crazy person because he kept insisting I was. I want to tell off his disrespectful adult daughter that her daddy is dating somebody her age.

I know I won’t do any of the above things but I sure want to. Most people are puzzeled by our divorce and I have kept my circle very tight of whom I’ve confided, but it really hurts to see him move on with a new young girlfriend while I’m left to pick up the pieces.

Thanks for letting me vent……



Congratulations on your Independence Day (June 9)!!!

For me I felt like a semi truck hit me everyday in my marriage so I get your train analogy..and each day I would get up dazed and confused at what happened the day before only to be hit by another semi truck…

It’s natural to be angry and normal. You were abused by this man who now just goes on his merry way to victimize another person. Know this…He will not be kind or loving to his latest victims she too will someday escape his hell, hopefully sooner then later. I am at the stage I pray for my ex’s victims that they too will learn the truth and find sites like Lovefraud to help them heal.

All victims go through the same grieving stages as a death denial, sadness, anger etc it’s hard to deal with all those emotions (google grieving stages)…so just feel all of your emotions and let them flow out…glad you vented here…venting is a good thing so is writing in a journal/or just on a piece of paper.

You will get to the point with your healing that you dont care who he is with you will be just happy you escaped his chaos and abuse.

Wishing you all the best for your new life!!! 🙂


Donna, You were the first person I reached out to the day I left the office of a PHD in forensic Psychology having learned that my ex is a sociopath. Learning what it meant and going to the internet back nearly nine years now… seems like only yesterday at times. I know you hear this often but I am so incredibly thankful to you for taking the time you did to respond to me and for this wonderful website. I have so much time at peace and yet when I have court dealings and declarations to do I feel like I am brought back to day one all over again. I just got off the phone with my attorney’s secretary and felt like she just does not understand why I am so picky about explicit orders…………. sigh………….. I know you are likely shaking your head right now with yes yes I understand. God Bless you Donna for all you do to help with awareness. As I buckle down for more court drama… I am pondering some sites I recently saw that indicated there are some federal investigations into deadbeat dads- I do not know if it has much validity but what I read stated that someone must owe at least 5K My ex owes over 90,000.00 yes, more than ninety thousand in child support. He does now seem to be paying something each month and has only skipped a month or so in the last year which is a HUGE improvement- but his motive is trying to take my son… he already gaslighted and completely turned our oldest against me and sadly the oldest I suspect is just like his biological entity. Our youngest has so much empathy and love I worry about how he will handle the way this goes… each visitation he seems to come back different. Has told us things that horrify us then later says oh no… in fear no i did not mean that please do not tell him……. oh the drama of it all. I do my best not to live this over and over and to find the joy each day. I did remarry and am so thankful that I have a good man in my life. I have learned to stand on my own too and I am so much stronger than I ever dreamed…… but I do have my moments. As I just dealt with more court matters and facing more ahead I decided to stop in to lovefraud and just wanted to send you a virtual hug Donna. I watched the tv spot the other night with the story of the lady who was conned out of money… when I saw you on that story there I had such a sense of pride and was saying way to go Donna!!!
thank you so so much for all you do and all you are. Love Hopeful 808


One more thing: my ex is self employed and is a canadian citizen.. I am not sure if anyone out there has insight on what we could do to help get him deported? Is there anyone helping with cases that someone owes over 90K in child support? Hides income and had a proven income of 9-10K a month at one point and now claims to make only about 1,200 quite a huge difference………..
he is trying hard to take the boys from me and oh as anyone here knows they are very manipulative. This ex does not want the boys and that has been clear but it is his only leverage to continue to hurt me. He use to threaten our lives and often threatened theirs.. but luckily I worked with an expert who helped me learn how to deal with each encounter so that I did not react and play into the games….. granted in the back of my mind I know he is pure evil..I have seen it. he does not last in relationships and his targets all have similarities… great contacts good credit and family with money…………
anyway if you or anyone has ideas on how to get my child support case up further on the chain of getting help.. let me know…. thank you!


Hopeful808, check out also join facebook under a fake name and chat on One moms battle facebook page there are 10,000 women in your same shoes who have been through/or going through what you are enduring right now. One moms battle deals with court issues with regards to narcs/sociopaths. Tina Swiften site creator has also written two books on court issues with a narc.

Be careful trying to get your ex deported as in one case posted on One Moms Battle the California Judge gave the father full custody and since he was deported the kids moved with him back to his home country in Europe. Now the mother has to travel to Europe to see her children and then back to her state to work since she can not get a work visa in that country. Just be careful you may create more problems then you ever anticipated with this approach.


Hopeful808, if you google “One moms battle kelly rutherford” you can read Tina’s article “A glimmer of hope” regarding her ex winning custody and moving the kids to Europe.


Oh…my…goodness…I was just talking to someone about my situation but this time I did not use the word “Sociopath”. I even told my friend that I don’t know why I am talking about it. I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want people to think I’m crazy. I don’t want to ruin the hopes and dreams of others especially since others look at my fraud of a marriage as picturesque. I have beat myself up over and over about talking about it. I keep promising myself that I will not talk about it. I don’t want to give it life, but I keep finding myself overflowing like a volcano. Vomiting it out. Purging, I now realize. This article is so helpful because there are many facets to healing, or trying to heal while one works on a way out. Especially for me…I am a bullhorn. I heal though action and communication. The email has been in my Inbox for a while, but, for some odd reason, I decided to read it today. My questions have been answered. My “big mouth” is my healing. I am really not ashamed but angry that the moron would even try it. In any event, thanks LoveFraud.

jenni marie

I came across this song today on YouTube
They are on to the Spath behind the mask….

The Kinks “He’s Evil”

He comes on smooth, cool and kind,
But he wants your body not your mind.
He’s got style, personality,
But he’s the devil in reality.
He’ll make you laugh, make you smile,
And make you feel good for a while.
Wicked smile, decadent grin,
He likes school girls, nuns and virgins.
His skin is soft but his mind is hard,
He’ll lead you on then he’ll tear you apart.
He’ll treat you rough and he will make you cry,
And you will kiss sweet innocence good-bye.
And once you’re in there’ll be no getting out,
So look out, look out, look out, look out.
He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil.
He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil.

He’s got wit he’s got charm.
But when he gets rough he’ll break your arm.
He’s got taste, manners and grace,
But when he gets tough he’ll slit your face.
He’ll buy you jewels, expensive clothes,
Then his mind’ll go and he’ll bust your nose.
He’s a joker and a clown
But he’ll pervert you and drag you down.
He comes on smooth, cool and kind,
But he wants your body not your mind,
He is just the devil in disguise.
He will drag you down and he will make you cry,
And once you’re in there will be no getting out.
So look out, look out, look out.
Look out, look out, look out.
He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil.
He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil. He’s evil.


You are so right Jenni Marie. Thanks for sharing it:)


Thanks jennie marie – we should all print this out and put it by the fridge, phone, bedside!


I am trying really hard to move on and have no contact with my ex, but I just keep thinking about how I don’t want him to be with someone else. I feel so used and betrayed by him. It happens over and over again and you think I would learn, but I keep going back for more. I feel like something is wrong with me. My family keeps telling me this isn’t normal. Will I ever be able to move forward? It feels so hopeless.


I know tforgeo. It’s very confusing. I have to realise with my sociopath ex that the love was genuine from me and fake from him so he could get my money, free house, sex etc. We’ve been separated almost 3 years. I’ve tried no contact then somehow it goes wrong and I bump into him. Then he blames me for the no contact, I feel guilty and it all starts again. He finally admitted he was constantly unfaithful to me. I tried not to react so that he would continue telling me about it. He trusts me that it doesn’t worry me. He must be crazy. I don’t show emotion at all now and don’t confront him and he seems to be telling me all about his many, many affairs. I think he has around 4 or 5 regulars and also takes opportunities as they arise. He visits me and doesn’t seem to get it. You can’t profess to be in love with someone after only a week, then immediately go to others. Of course, they don’t know what love is. Lust is the driving power, but they don’t understand. I still feel love for him but at least I realise he’s fake so the pain is not too bad now.


I had a bf like this. He’s still my friend. Well he’s been on and off. I just recently told him. Ur a player. Ur loss. I will always be ur friend but the greatest gift you could give me is to not LIE TO ME. He said: Ur Right. He said i will not lie to you anymore. Im sorry.
Does he mean it? idk lol
but he said it without arguing. that was something lol
i would never ever trust him to commit. he did the same intensity too quick and then go screw every and any thing that would and will do him.
he’s got 6 kids (3 babymamas), the 3rd and 5th and 6th are total mistakes. like HELL NO, *you’re* not pregnant too!!! i would hate to be him.
but he’s a pretty good friend to me when i need him. he’s not disordered at all i dont think. he’s just a loser.


There is no normal conversation that takes place with a socio-path. Everything that you have learned in life about how to treat people does not apply when dealing with him.You are his captured audience and he needs someone to listen to all that he is doing.It’s all about him.It’s always your fault, no matter what,HE will blame you. He wants you to think that you are special and can be trusted and confided in. It keeps us engaged in their life. He loses control with no contact, but You gain yours back:) It is the only way. We are so conditioned to love and care that it does not make sense to leave and not love or care. If you want your life back, move on and have no contact.Be responsive and less reactive. Get really aware of your actions and focus on what you want for your life:) It’s about YOU now.It’s your turn. Give yourself permission to be happy and move forward. You can do it:)P.S. BLOOM!


Thank you truebeliever. Even in his company, I try to keep in mind this is not a normal human being, but the charm etc. continues to fool me. I cannot go no contact yet as I can’t take more blame after years of it. I’m just going to have to be crafty and try to be unavailable. He only texts and emails me – no phone, which is good. I’ve been in contact and him coming round to me for the past 3 weeks after 6 months of peace. I’ve noticed he’s always with ‘friends’ on Friday and Saturday and never texts me. Other days he does and wants to come over. I think he’s getting worried keeping his women separate from each other because as soon as he comes home he texts me either Sunday night or Monday morning. Surely he realises I know what he’s doing. I don’t care but I can use it to keep him away. But I caught myself waiting in for him at the weekend. I’ve decided to really concentrate on building up a life for myself and going out more. If he texts me on a weekday to ‘bring round some wine…’ I will call his bluff soon and tell him I was free at the weekend, but I’m busy with —- in the week. Anything for him to stop blaming me and using me. I feel dirty when he has multiple partners and obviously feels only lust and ‘dupers delight’ in ‘fooling me and the others.’


Thank you Kathleen! I just don’t understand how someone could do this to someone.i don’t get how you can go back and forth between people. It makes no sense to me. I want her to know what he’s done, but it won’t do any good and he will retaliate. I thought about going out if state to visit family while I have time off to clear my head and get away from him. Thank you for your support


I know tforgeo. These people are evil. We have to think they have no love in them like us. Sex is mechanical and only lust, which means nothing to normal people. That’s how they can easily sleep with strangers, no problem. Mine not only takes opportunities but actively chases people (predator) everyday on the internet. We’ve been married almost 8 years. He left me nearly 3 years’ ago when I had to tell him my savings (we lived from) were gone. He was receiving hundreds of emails a day after that from people on dating sites. He has long contact lists – hundreds – because he never finishes with anyone. He could go 5 years, drop his current ‘lovers’ and pick an old one up – ‘sorry about what happened between us. would you like to see me again?’ No shame. We must keep in mind – we are normal, loving, caring human beings and they are monsters!


tforgeo – It only feels hopeless at the moment. Ask yourself this: Do you not want him to be with someone else because you don’t want him to hurt anyone else or Do you not want him to be with someone else because you haven’t been hurt by him enough? Either way, you don’t deserve to be hurt. You cannot fix your ex nor can you protect anyone else from him. You don’t deserve to be used or betrayed. You deserve to be loved. You have to love yourself first. It’s up to you to take the steps you need to take towards the life that you deserve. Put him in your rear view mirror. It’s OK. It’s hard right now, but it gets easier and easier and eventually your life will get better and better.


I know how hard it is to let go when you think he can change. What if he GETS IT with the new or next one??? Then you’d be a fool to let him go; if you’d just held on longer…so you try harder this time. You try something different. You tell him you will always wait for him. You will always love him. And you mean it. And he knows you mean it.
This is a normal reaction.
But it should be reserved for normal men. (and even then after great thot and some good counsel)
*THESE* monsters, tho, will never change. Will never get it. Will never become human even.
Toss them away.
They are garbage.



you are not alone. I haven’t blogged in a couple days, been busy getting ready for my trip to Puerto Rico in two more days. But it has still been on my mind too. When I first found out that he had a fiance for the past 2 years just a couple weeks ago, I felt this overwhelming anger and protection for myself. I found out from the ex fiance that there were other women too, so then defenses about my health came about. I got tested and everything is ok, thank God. But now I am in the phase of missing him, why, I keep asking why? I didn’t think I would feel this way at all because I wasn’t happy for awhile with him.

I just keep remembering all the promises he made, his love bombing was extreme, his constant lying and I keep wandering why I fell for it. I feel like I am in the healing process of beating myself up and I shouldn’t because I did nothing wrong. The thoughts of his kind actions just keep flowing through my mind and it makes me miss him. But then I think of the conversation we had on this cabin vacation we took just a week before I found out about his other women. We went on a canoe ride, and the night before my friend and her boyfriend were fighting about his cheating in the past. We had a whole conversation about why people cheat. He acted like he had insight and I felt we connected on a deeper level. But this wolf in sheeps clothing was just having another conversational lie with me to keep me bonded. I feel so emotionally abused. And yet after these bad thoughts keep running through my head, I still miss him. What’s wrong with me, I dodged major bullets and have no stds. What woman wants to be a man that could risk her health. I should feel no remorse for leaving him.

He has made absolutely no contact with me. I can only guess he has made a smooth transition onto his next victim. I find myself wanting to have some contact with him, some closure, although I know this will never happen and keep going back to the thought of “no contact forever” being the best option. I know that my real issue is my loneliness that I suffer and this is why I feel like I miss him. I am trying so many self help things like books and meditating, I feel good for a while then I slip back. Time is my enemy right now. It does feel good to be back on here to write this out and getting it out only heals more. I just want these nostalgic feelings to end right away so that I don’t keep beating myself up.

jenni marie


May every second of your trip be filled with enjoyment.

A suggestion from an experience I had during one of the many breakups with Mike, “Edweird”: While you are on vacation and spending time talking with people, pay close attention to their personalities and how refreshingly ‘normal’ their conversation is with you and those around them, as well as their reactions to the world around them as things occur.

You will find that not everyone believes that all people are stupid, and lot’s of people still have a sense of humor and can laugh at themselves freely without getting angry at anyone. It is an opportunity for you to let your mind see for itself what is on the other side of the fence. This fence that we have slowly built around ourselves that keeps us caught up in the turmoil of confusion of being with and breaking up with a person like him.

When the sociopath’s ball (sad feelings and missing him/it) comes bouncing into your yard, kick it back over, and continue with your own fun and games. Healthy games. And the best part of all? It’s okay to leave the yard.

Open the gate downwitfakerastas! 🙂 Go outside and play.

Have a great, safe trip.



I like this idea a lot Jenni, thanks!!! This vacation is exactly what I need. My spath kept me indecisive this whole spring when I was trying to make vacation plans this summer, he kept saying he was coming, then not, then trying to get me to go to Jamaica instead(that is where he is from), and I think he waited until I offered to pay for the plane flight for him. He also did this, I realize now, because he didn’t know if he could leave his fiance for 5 days, what lie would he come up with??? I already offered to pay the hotel, because I couldn’t take his bs anymore and I just planned the trip for myself without him making strides to go.

It was all in the universe’s plan for me to make this trip and to schedule it as though I was going by myself….but my friend jumped on board is going with me now too (she is going through a break up too)….we are in need of some much r&r



Jennie has a great point. As I get out more, I hurt less. And I really notice how normal people are. In fact, people are so normal that I become self conscious because I stay so suspicious.

Recently, I saw a few people from high school. I’ve known these people for twenty years. I trust them. It was an amazing feeling to stand and talk to men who I know and trust, the conversations were relaxed and joyful. I never felt intimidated or judged. They were happy to see an old friend and were interested in my life, as I was interested in theirs. I didn’t feel threatened at all, I didn’t have to be on guard for what was coming next. I didn’t have to worry that if they were being nice, they must have a plan to harm me. It was refreshing and so outside what I am used to.

It’s great advice to watch how normal people communicate. Because they are normal.

Best wishes for a great trip! And lots of normal interaction with others.


We all feel your pain.It is the most mind boggling experience I have ever had in my life.The attachment you have to him is like a drug addiction.You have experienced immense love and desire like never before and he has you where he wants you.Its a mind game and control.It is an addiction.He had created a world that no other can match and as much as you want him to be different and change,it won’t happen. It is a crazy making experience and NO CONTACT is the ONLY WAY!!!Your ACTIONS speak louder than words! It has been six years and I have moved on!!! Know that you are capable of real love and caring. Do not allow your empathy and caring to control your life. He is so good at needing that from you.It keeps us hooked and addicted. You do not have to give yourself away for love. Love is not a trade-off. Kick the addiction!I wish you the BEST!!!


For those who are still in contact with the sociopath in your life, you have choices you can not blame everything on the sociopath that is negative in your life, if you choose to continue to allow that evil person to put you on an emotional roller coaster ride still then you can not blame the sociopath if you are willing to pay the admission price (communicating with them) to get on the sociopaths roller coaster ride.

You are paying the ultimate price by still being in contact with that dysfunctional chaotic person, you are paying with your sanity. YOU will never find peace with a sociopath in your life EVER…you must break the addiction and emotional bond from the sociopath in your life.

This is what YOU have to do and to do this you need to go no contact with them…know that you can never be “friends” with a sociopath ever…in your mind maybe, in a sociopaths mind no way…they will always play with your emotions and mind exactly like a cat that plays with a mouse….the sociopath will play with your mind (gas lighting abuse etc) and your emotions until you are literally crawling away from their abuse. The ultimate goal of a sociopath is to break you down emotionally, mentally and physically until you have lost everything in your life.

Are you willing to let a sociopath do that to you, to your life??

At what point do you say ENOUGH with my current situation…at what point do YOU say I am going to make changes starting today….I am going to go no contact for 90 days! Then after that another 90 days…. I have a choice and I choose me over the sociopath!!!

This is from explaining why you need to go “NO Contact” with a sociopath to finally get your freedom! (Plus Donna has more info on No contact rule here on Lovefraud).

“…..Why Initiate a”No Contact” Rule When Leaving a Narcissistic Relationship

No contact is initiated as a way of breaking the psychic emotional bonds between you and a narcissistic partner, friend or family member. If you have been involved with a narcissistic person for any length of time you will undoubtedly have a strong attachment to that person. This attachment needs to be weakened which will happen much more quickly once you engage the rules of “no contact.”

I am referring to the rules of “no contact” as RULES but these are only enforced by you. These are your rules! If you break these rules you are the one who pays the consequences. And”there are most definitely consequences that come in the form of emotional pain and re-attachment.

No contact gives you the space and time to get your energy back into your life. It can be challenging at first as you may have to resist the urge to answer the phone, return an Email or make that call. You must get into the habit of policing yourself for your own good. Imagine that you have two different aspects of yourself; a parent self and a child self. The parent self will have to police the child self to be sure she doesn’t do anything that will hurt her. You know intellectually that breaking the rules of “no contact” will hurt that child, so you stop her from doing so, even though she is throwing a tantrum.

Making a decision to cut off contact with a narcissistic personality when leaving the relationship is an important part of your recovery process. The decision to initiate “NO Contact” is a decision for your health and sanity.

When you remain in contact you continue to engage in the relationship on some level and are still affected by its craziness and dysfunction. You will normally continue to be affected by the hot and cold behavior of the narcissist, be pulled in and pushed away, confused and hurt. You will continue to be drained energetically which results in depression and lethargy.

The best remedy for getting yourself back is to stop giving your energy to the relationship in any way, shape or matter. You can only dry off when you take your feet out of the water. Cut off his access to you and your energy!

Of course there are cases where ’no contact” is not possible due to the involvement of children or when the narcissistic personality is a direct family member. However even in these cases contact can be greatly limited and sometimes all contact can be through a third party mediator……..”




Thanks, I really need to read this just now. My spath has made no contact and I haven’t made any too. I keep thinking of the things I would say to him in a text but then I think it will do no good anyways. I do stop myself. I can never let him have the wrath of my anger enough for him to see the light of what he did. He will never care. Our whole relationship was a lie from the beginning. I just need to get past these thoughts of the good times we had, I guess it is part of the addiction. Like a drug you think of the times you had fun and pleasure, that is why people go back to the drug. Any resources on how to stop these ideas of the good times you had with the spath????

This shit is so mind boggling, I just started crying as I wrote that last sentence. I want to talk to my friends but I know they will just think Im crazy for feeling this way


This shyt IS so mindboggling. Give yourself a break. Step back and just feel. And breathe.
Give urself time.
You’re still wrapping ur mind around it.
Normal ppl have a very very hard time doing that. They generally DENY spaths exist.
The spath just moves on, lalala.
You’re normal. Breathe, hon.
Just Breathe by Anna Nalick


Downwitfakerastas, your Welcome. After I posted it I thought maybe it was to harsh but I just wanted to get several people here to think about what they are doing to themselves by letting the sociopath contact them.

If you let your mind really open up to your relationship you will see that there were never any “good times” with your sociopath. Why? Because everything he did was to control you, to control your mind, what you did, how you acted and to control what you did.

For me every thing I have read since leaving that explains my ex h’s behavior ie gas lighting, his use of mind control, reward & punishment, intimidation etc I look to see if he used those in the “good times” too…ie vacations, going to dinner with friends, holidays etc and YES he did everything was about him and everything was about controlling me and everyone else. There were never any “normal” times with him I just tried my best like most victims to try to see the good rather then the bad. They are very sick and twisted. You might want to dissect your “good times” with him to see the truth that no matter if they were good times (in your mind) or bad times (your mind seeing the truth) they were all really bad times. This will help you separate your self from him emotionally and break the addiction. It really does help.

I am sorry that you were crying while writing your post..makes me sad. You are going to survive and thrive. It just takes time. The good thing is you know the truth..which has lead you to sites like lovefraud to educate yourself and to heal. Take care

ps no matter what you wrote in a letter/text to him to explain how he made you feel he would get joy out of the fact he destroyed you emotionally so doing so would not help…the best thing you can do is think about the fact you found out the truth about him, his true nightmare is that all people will learn he is a sociopath and you know this! This is power!!! Greater power then sending him a letter to explain how he hurt you.


I think I needed to cry….I did a couple times but I need to allow myself to cry because I felt some relief. Although it kept me inside all day on a beautiful day, I needed that. Today is another beautiful day(hot but sunny) and I am going to take advantage of it!


Hi Downwitfakerstas…crying is good…we spent so long stuffing our feelings down for peace our bodies need to release the emotions.

Enjoy your sunny day!!


Adding to Ain’t post full of wise advice…

My now ex husband poisoned all my good time memories because when his mask came off, he revealed all the good times were just him scamming me, setting me up.

To relieve the pain of memories turning out to be poison, I redid the memories. I found NEW places that were my special spot. Sometimes I did NEW activities and actually did a little purification ceremony so that his essence was purged and light and love were enhanced.

And truth is, your friends are not likely to understand. You lived it and it’s hard to understand. You can find people here to validate you and to cry with. Keep your friends for rebuilding good times and a good life.

YES! It’s hard to come to grips with, the enormity of their abuse. EVERYTHING, every kindness, every gesture, every moment was about getting control over and getting one over on us. Duping. IT was ALL a dupe. They used what we valued, being connected, FEELING loved, to DUPE us. No wonder the grief seems unending. … eventually NEW REAL and AUTHENTIC replaces the grief. But it sure does seem a long haul… kinda like being in college, where classes go on forever, but when we’re done, we look back at the progress and are so glad to have come through it with a future of all kinds of possibilities.


Notwhathesaidofme, I agree…I always think that all of us victims should receive a honorary PHD in psychology specializing in sociopath behavior, mind control and their evilness. Then maybe our friends & family would listen to what we have to say LOL!


I talked about it to no end, wrote about it to no end. I still don’t feel better because they got away with it. The courts are supposed to be better educated on this sort of thing but courts don’t care. It’s not their life.


You are right. The courts don’t care. Justice is rare.
But it only SEEMS like they got away with it when you are still in great pain.

After you heal, you will see they didn’t gain what they really wanted. So for them, it’s a loss. They didn’t gain your complete destruction, your suicide. It’s why living well really is the best revenge. To show they were the scum of the earth and could not destroy your goodness, your ability to love, your humanity.


i have talked about this here before: post-spath I googled some folks i knew in my deep past. there was a court record of someone who i knew when i was 20; and the judge’s comments showed that this man had not changed in 30 years. Well recently, i googled him again, and found only an estate sale notice from a newspaper – he had died. I have no idea how. perhaps from alcohol related issues, perhaps violently….

not sure how i feel about this. I haven’t been afraid of this guy in decades – i live thousands of miles away.there is something very odd for me about him having died. he terrorized me, and now he is dead. his life was short and cruel. and i am not sure how i feel about that. it dredges up such old stuff…think i will be numb about it until all that old stuff gets a bit more air.

I can speak from experience as the mouse that the cat played with;’dragging through mud and over rocks’.

He would always apologize afterward and I felt it was ‘my duty’ to try to make our marriage work and keep our family together.But the entire time,it was doing things to my mind!The gaslighting,etc.There was the sleep deprivation that went on for YEARS!!! I reacted like a robot…just doing.

The worst though was the isolation…from family and friends.Staring at four walls all day long;having no one but the Spath to talk to.I felt like I was going crazy!It was like being a prisoner kept in isolation.There would be no Long Ranger & Tonto or any other Troopers.I was growing weaker by the day.The cat was growing more confident & fatter.I knew I had to make a move or I would die!Ironically,he helped me make that move one day when he contemptously called me “drama queen” repeatedly.Once I got beyond the door I never looked back!!!


I hate this hold they have over us. Like you say Blossom4th, when you are taken advantage of and it’s the loneliness they feed off from you, it makes it that much harder because you have no one to fall back on for support. Why does life have to be so cruel. Not only do we have to suffer the emotional drama they put us through, but we also have to do it alone. I can only think that this is what I am going through to make me stronger but I can’t actually feel that right now, only imagine it.


My strength lies not in that I’m stronger but that I’m HERE.
I should not be. I should be buried.
LIFE!!!! nothing can beat the hope that flies with Life.


Blossom4th, You just brilliantly describe all of our nightmares with a sociopath.

Cheers to our FREEDOM!!!!!

Since Spath has no contact with me,he calls my dad (who lives out of state) several times daily,trying to get information about me.My dad can’t stand him!Dad won’t tell Spath anything about me!But he politely listens long enough to get some information ABOUT SPATH,and then if it’s something he feels I should hear,he’ll tell me.

Recently,he told me something I had already suspicioned.There is a phone hook up to our congregation meetings,and Spath listens in.Dad said Spath told him he was listening in so that he could hear me!I had a feeling that if I would ‘fade away’,he would be more than glad to,as well!But he feels obligated to be ‘showy’ as long as I sincerely appear at my congregation meetings!


Blossom4th…your Dad is amazing! To not only have someone who believes you, but to have someone, especially Dad, to be proactive in helping you defend yourself is simply amazing! I’m so happy for you. No matter what…with strength like your Dad’s, you’re going to be just fine. FYI…you have your Dad’s genetics. Best of luck.

The “good times”?! Hon, those were playacting…it was a movie!!! I always tried to ‘hold things together’ by remembering the ‘good times’…..until I realized they weren’t real!

As was suggested,make your own good times…ONES THAT YOU KNOW ARE REAL!


yes you are so right, there cant be any good times because they were all lies.


Yeah, it’s starts out as nice dinners out with him buying, a month later I’m paying somehow or someway. And, at the same time he is making up excuses why he can’t come and see me


I stumbled on this and was reminded how much easier our lives would be if these people were upfront with us. Truth in advertising – Maybe it would sound something like this?:

Deal or No Deal?
“Here’s the deal sweetie. For the next several months or so, I will pretend to be everything you ever wanted. I’ll shower you with attention, affection, and all manner of stuff to make you feel special. Then once I know you are depending on me as your significant other, and have made a commitment to me, I’m going to quit pretending and be who I really am. I’m going to treat you badly, I’ll say insensitive things, I’ll lie, I’ll cheat, I’ll devastate you financially, I’ll be really cruel, possibly humiliate you in public. Your job will be to figure out what happened and do anything in your power to restore the relationship to what it was before, until you die, or try to kill yourself, or collapse and get sent to the hospital, which will be pretty funny since there is no chance whatsoever I’ll pretend to be that nice guy again ”“ and by the way it WAS a pretense. So what do you say sweetie? Do we have a deal? Several years in hell in exchange for a few months of fantasy?”

Sure would have been easier to walk away with a speech like that!

jenni marie


Did you ever say to him something like this: “If all you wanted was sex, the least you could have done is given me the option”.

The funniest part of this is that when it came time to ‘do it’, he could not keep the little soldier at attention, unless it was in his own hands or mine. ewwwww, tmi, sorry. But, if I had the ‘option’ for just sex with him, I could have said NO THANKS. He had a very nice soldier and only used it to tease me. He commented once that he ‘made me wait two weeks before giving it to me the very first time’ after ‘showing it’ to me by walking and strutting around naked in my home the second time that I invited him over. It was summer, so “it’s hot and it’s ok to get naked”. I did like the view.

Want to know something else? I stayed single and celibate for nine years prior to meeting him because of the jerk before him. I swore off relationships until I met someone really nice this time. Mike was a grand manipulator. I gotta give him that. The only difference now is that he is not manipulating me.

Sure would have been easier to walk away if he had been man enough to give me the deal or no deal speech…….

Carl Sagan wrote:

If it can be DESTROYED by the TRUTH,

may we all find peace of mind by knowing the Truth.



You really hit the nail on the head with your description. Unfortunately that wouldn’t be any fun for them would it?

jenni marie


I wanted to add the obvious: It is not easy to stop thinking about him.

When I wake up in the morning, I think about him within the first few minutes of waking up. (ick) Weekdays are spent being blessedly distracted by my job. Weekends are tougher, but I get through them.

I sometimes wonder if he thinks about me when he wakes up too because of all the times he would call me in the morning, right before I would have to leave for work, after fighting the night before to the point of me having no choice but to ask him to leave, and I allow myself a little laugh , because I know how hard it is trying NOT TO THINK ABOUT SOMEONE and how much I know he is squirming in his non-existent shorts, that he is not able to make his usual antagonistic ‘morning call’ of continued harassment-to-start-my-day with, a’la Evil crap.

He doesn’t have a job so he’s got plenty of time to think about the ‘best’ girl (laugh) he ever had and what trick will get that control back, so he can start making his morning calls again, LOL, along with his other useless tricks for the day. (I know he doesn’t give a hoot about me, but he likes his sick entertainment and will probably miss a little thrill from these spiteful morning calls in particular…aww poor baby, and I hope he gets as bored as they are supposed to get quickly, but this guy keeps coming back and showing up, for 3 1/2 years!, so I’m not out of his mind as much as I would like to be out. –And yes, Jenniself, I know that I am the one who kept giving him all those chances, 🙁 but not anymore, forever).

Sometimes it feels like I am whining and complaining when I post, but it has all been very helpful regardless. I stayed with mike for two plus years after learning about disordered people on LF, because I ’loved’ him and I didn’t want to give up. I didn’t want to just blindly accept the scary possibility that he was sociopathic even when there was no other logical diagnostic conclusion to draw for myself. After all, who gives up?! I used to think only quitters gave up. Now, I know that sometimes….. it is Abused people who give up, and it’s okay to give up and it’s okay to go against your own grain of stick-to-it-iv-ness, and just quit when it comes to these types of icky people. To save ourselves.

Dear downwitfakerastas,

Give yourself permission to give up on him.

We LF peeps know that you are not the kind of person to just give up on someone without a fight/best effort/care, and we know that you wanted to make sure that you have given him every chance possible to change his ways. You know you did sweetie, you really really did.

By removing this person from your life, what would you be missing? What would you tell your best friend if she were in this same situation? What would you tell your son or daughter? Please be your own best friend this time. Be nice to yourself as you take each minute, hour and day to break the addiction to him. That’s really all it is, an addiction. You can beat it. “One day at a time” is no joke. I am only 16 days NC since the last trick- bout of “let’s talk to work it out” insanity ride, and am encouraged by reading posts from those of us who have passed the early withdrawal phase, and moved into the consciousness of recovering phase.

with love,


I often wander if it would be better if I was at work or on my summer vacation like I am now. I am a teacher, and I got the news about his fiance about a week before school let our for summer. I teach high school, so students weren’t really coming the last week of school. I was glad that I felt ok to sneak away to cry or to deal with the news I just found out. But once summer break happen, I have all this free time which makes it almost worse because I have a lot of time to think about it. And my loneliness doesn’t make it any better. Being 36, everyone is married or has kids and is working the 9-5 M-f, so summer vacation can be very isolating. It is bitter sweet sometimes.

My spath used to text me every morning to say ‘good morning” at the beginning that soon stopped after a couple months of the inititial love bombing (there were many more exclamations of love than just the morning text). I think that fact that he has made no contact and I know he never will, is the hardest part, because like another poster said, it is the love bonds and chemicals in the brain that are experience the withdrawals….if he were contacting me and I wasn’t responding but still reading his messages, I would still be feeding that chemical, just like a drug. So my withdrawal is going to be quick and swift since I won’t get anything from him, and I am stubborn and I won’t contact him, I think about it, but I won’t…this is where my stubbornness works out for me. lol

That is why I am trying meditation, and I did a toltec labryinth meditation last night and it did help….and of course all your responses from posters on here really help. When I come back and read the positive note to move forward it refocuses me.

When I started my healing process;not only did I post at LF,but I took advantage of the archives at the bottom of the page.When you’re feeling up to to doing research,it’s a great place for doing it!

I found a couple of articles that might be helpful as a start,for you.Here’s the first one.


Thanks, I did read a lot of the articles on here before I started posting and I watched Donna’s video’s. I am so glad I stumbled upon this website. I had no idea I was dating a spath nor did I know anything about this. He was my first and hopefully my last. I definitely know now that the love bombing and the predatory stare are major indications. Like I said in previous posts, I thought it was all about his culture since he is Jamaican, I always made excuses that I just didn’t know their cultural habits.

But to all women, never make this excuse, some of things Donna puts on her list expand the cultural boundaries. He did so many things on the list, but when I look back now the love bombing and the stare were so prevalent. I was always uneasy with his stupid stare. But it got to the point when I pointed it out that we would make jokes about it. He was great at being sarcastic and making jokes out of his lies.

…and here is the other article that I thought you might find helpful.Best wishes and Hugs!


Just ignore me please. I should know better. Met this guy and the honeymoon lasted two weeks and after that it cost me money. And, the most stupidest thing is this guy isn’t a cute young boy toy costing me money, he is a gnarly old man. There are so many men looking to use women to spend money on him. Maybe I should advertise on dating site that if I have to spend money on you….you better look like Johnny Depp


I must say that I am happy for all of you. It seems that everyone here is out. I’m still “in” and it sucks. I’m working on getting out but since I’ve not worked & have a number of children, it’s difficult. Emotionally it’s draining. However, I have faith & I dream all of the time of that blessed day I’ll be free. I’m so excited to hear that so many of you made it out no matter your situation. Keep me & my children in your prayers while I forge ahead in determination & faith.


Ironiclife, I know it feels hopeless for you…being in the tornado feels like there will never be any calm and blue skies…but with proper planning you can escape your current situation. Here are a few things that you might want to look into….little steps everyday turn into miles!

1) Call the National domestic violence hotline anytime you feel you need to talk with a free counselor, you can call everyday if you need to…in the USA 800-799-SAFE or google your countries hotline number. 24/7 365 days a year

2) Go to your local abuse center for free counseling and women group meetings. Do this without telling your husband. This will help to know you are not alone plus the counselor can help you with an “Exit Plan” out of your relationship. The National domestic violence hotline can give you your local numbers just ask them. This is one of the best things you can do for yourself right now!!

3) Start getting an EXIT PLAN in order starting today!

4) If you go to the National Domestic violence hotline website they have an “Exit Plan” posted for you to look at plus Google “Exit Plan” & “EXIT PLAN you tube” to learn more

This Exit Plan is a must…remember the most dangerous time for a women leaving a domestic abusive relationship is when she leaves so you need an exit plan out.

5) Tell your most trusted friends & family what is going on in your marriage ask them to start keeping a journal of everything you tell them that is going on in your relationship…this can be used in court! Have them keep dates, times, incidents. This is an absolute must they will be witness for you in court for say a restraining order and/or future child custody case. Also he will try to do a smear campaign against you with your own family & friends so start spreading the truth now.

6) Keep a journal yourself but make sure you hide it for your safety. Keep dates, times, incidents etc the more detailed the better dont worry about spelling or grammar just write it all down. Your journal can be used in courts but your families and friends journal is as equally as important.

7) Job…there are many large corporations, government jobs, military bases (civilian jobs on base) and large gyms that have child care on the premise. So look into these type jobs that way you can work and have your children at day care. Even if your whole pay check goes to child care find a job even if only part time. Not just for you to have a little income of your own but also to get out and socialize and find some self worth on your own terms. If you need some type of job skill look into this at the unemployment office they have lots of free coursed on all subjects.

The other option would be to work at a day care center so that again you can get out of your home and feel strong again about your self.

8) Check out it’s a free site that is really cool as it list all of your town clubs, organizations, groups…join a walking group, or moms group or any group that you are interested in so that you can form new friendships and not feel so isolated in your world. Since you are vulnerable stick to the women groups only since you dont want to be preyed upon by any men.

9) Know that you are not alone!! We hear you..keep posting here. ALso check out facebook pg After narcissistic abuse & One Moms battle. Open a fake email account and with that acct open a fake facebook page that way you can chat on those sites without your husband seeing what you are saying plus also his friends/family cant see and report back to him. See and her books on divorcing a narcissist and Afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress

10) You most likely have PTSD (adrenal fatigue) which is limiting you mentally, emotionally and physically from leaving your abuser. Check out take the questionnaire/read/see symptoms list. read/see symptoms list, read the book see her you tube videos…google PTSD adrenal fatigue. Healing your adrenal glands will help you to think clearly to leave. Symptoms of adrenal fatigue anxiety, depression, panic attacks, hair loss, weight gain or loss, sleep issues, brain fog, thinking issues, difficulties making good decisions etc etc it’s a very long list.


12) Every time your husband is abusive to you whether emotional, mental, verbal, physical or finical ask yourself at the moment:

When am I going to say enough and leave him?

(one day you will say “I am leaving TODAY!!)

We have all been where you are now…it seems hopeless but to escape your situation you need to make small steps everyday. Get a EXIT PLAN together…there is no time limit..the time for you to escape is your choice but have it ready encase you need to flee one night.

Know that you deserve so much better in your life!!! 🙂




Thanks so much for so much guidance. It means a lot.

1) Call the National domestic violence hotline…I have quite a few children and when he’s not around I love cherishing the time with them. I can’t think of anything else besides relishing our peaceful times together. Also, I don’t want them to overhear anything. They see and feel enough as it is. I have family and friends I communicate with regularly. So, I’m on it.

2) Go to your local abuse center…soooo not an option! Besides wanting to cherish time with my kids especially since I now work, he calls them on their mobile phones to keep up with me and find out what I’m doing, where I am and with whom. If he finds out I’m someplace which even the kids don’t know he’ll use it to kindle his anger towards a fight. He has to have a springboard to say anything to me. So, I work pretty hard not to give it to him. Once I even said, “I am not answering that question because your insecurity is waiting for my reply to launch into an argument. It’s really old.”

3) Start getting an EXIT PLAN in order starting today!…have to get on this as I am exhausted with mother and work responsibilities. I wish I had a magic wand. I do have a plan, but because of the emotional toll it’s dragging. But, I am going to research it like you suggested. By reading plans and empowering myself…I may jolt forward.

4) If you go to the National Domestic violence hotline website they have an “Exit Plan” posted for you to look at plus Google “Exit Plan” & “EXIT PLAN you tube” to learn more…on it

This Exit Plan is a must…really cool I have a plan but I definitely can learn more and refine my plan.

5) Tell your most trusted friends & family…I do this pretty regularly. I am a bit apprehensive about asking them to keep a journal…I’ll work on this…

6) Keep a journal yourself…I keep an electronic journal. I don’t want to risk either him or the kids finding a hard copy.

7) Job…I have a job now and it’s so amazing being around wonderful people and building my own life. Without going into too much detail…the people I work for and with have known me and my kids for over 10 years.

8) Check out…with my responsibilities to my kids and the emotional free time I get with them…there’s is no time. So, I play at work…LOL

9) Know that you are not alone!! We hear you..keep posting here. ALso check out facebook pg…on it!

10) You most likely have PTSD (adrenal fatigue)…on it!

11) ***ALWAYS CLEAR…on it!

12) When am I going to say enough and leave him?…IDK…it seems like others (some, not all) think it’s so easy to leave. Emotionally, psychologically I’m on board. It’s a no-brainer. My issue is financial. I have to be in a position to take care of myself and my kids independently. I don’t want to be living in a small apartment in a bad part of town cause it’s the best I can do. I don’t want to “not” be able to care for my kids because he’s dangling support and playing games…or quits his job for pity and blames me to my kids (oh…he’s a scoundrel). I don’t want to take my family out of the frying pan and put them into the fire. Remember they share his DNA and the teen years for some of them has been delicate to put is nicely. I don’t want to add to their emotional weights. That’s the thing with having kids (not bad, though). You have so many balls in the air trying not to miss even one. I just can’t get up and move into a family member’s basement. Also, the car is in his name and he has keys. If he takes it when I leave, now I have no way to get to work or get my kids to school, doctor’s appts., etc. He’s done it before. Enough IS enough…I checked out emotionally and psychologically, in regards to him, and I’m working on checking out financially. He plays so many games I have to be positioned to not need him for anything. If we get support…BONUS. Do I want to rely on it to live…NO.

I’ve was already a strong chica to start and I that’s what attracted him. However, it wasn’t an attraction of complementary desire, he hated and wanted to destroy my strength. It was all love/hate with hate gaining greater position as he gets older.

I’m even stronger now (but we all know it wears on you). I’ve switched up and tightened my game so much that he’s frazzled and has no idea at what angle to attack because he doesn’t know what I know, who else knows what I know and I don’t get angry anymore. His manipulation is based on knowing details to play around with the truth. So, the fewer details he knows about my life the less leverage he has. He’s lied on me to my family. When he was trying to figure out what was in my head, I threw him a bone. I said, “You are such a liar. I can’t believe you lied on me to my family!” He was stuck because he didn’t know which lie I was referring to and which person told me. So, he said, “What are you talking about? What did I say? How did I lie on you?” I simply replied, “That’s the thing about lies. You have to keep up with them otherwise you loose control of them and they take lives of their own until you don’t even remember your lies.” I walked away laughing to myself at how obvious this spath is. I laugh a lot. It’s therapeutic for me. I’m tired of crying, but I still do from time to time. Now that I know, it’s all clear.

I never look him in the eyes. I move around as if he doesn’t exist. I talk around him and whenever he tries to make direct eye contact or talk to me I grimace like I smell an awful odor. He hates it but he has no leverage. But, who in “sam hell” wants to live like this? I don’t. I am including your tips and points my game just got even tighter.

Please know I am deathly afraid sometimes. I do fear for my life at times. But, sometimes I just can’t lay there and take his crap. I do what I do only because I need to survive until I can get my footing on the next level. I speak up when necessary and I shut up when necessary.

However, strong I am…it’s an awful way to live and I am better than this.

I do recognize you may not have meant it that way. Typing looses inflection of voice and facial expressions. This post is not only about me. It’s about all of us so I want to chat away hoping someone will find a nugget in here to help them, too.

(one day you will say “I am leaving TODAY!!)…I see the plane in the sky already skywriting: “FREE AT LAST!!!”

you need to make small steps everyday..Oh yes!

Know that you deserve so much better in your life!!! 🙂 THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

Very long post but I think it will help you (all victims of these demons from the pit of the fiery lake) laugh, cry and take just one more step forward.

Game on!


“Please know I am deathly afraid sometimes. I do fear for my life at times.”
Of course, you do. When it comes down to it, we are in grave physical danger. These ppl are WITHOUT boundaries. They can turn at any moment. They have no conscience to answer to later or prevent them from going too far, just once even.
A basement is better than death. Bussing or getting rides to work is better than death. Having your kids be a little up in the air emotionally is better than death. They are already crazed by the whole mess, dear–remember that.
Please dont let logistics keep you there a minute longer. Living in a bad part of town for a time, is still LIVING.
I want you alive!
I know also logistics can be a scapegoat for just not wanting to face the DRAMA you know is coming. To keep it at bay a little longer, to do it “later”. We have all been thru ur mental chaos and know how hard it is to leave, even once u think u’ve left emotionally already. It is sooooo hard.
You can get thru this, you are so strong to have gotten thru what you did already. You will make it ~hugs~



Thank you so much. I hear you all the way. This frustrates me so much that every time I think I figured it out another angle pokes it’s head. I’ve been to domestic violence and called over 50 resources they gave me to no avail. I didn’t meet any of the places with various restrictions or rules. The person at domestic violence has kept in touch.

Here’s an angle I ran into…

Remember these people are master manipulators. No one else sees or experiences what I do. Not even the kids for the most part. To everyone but me, there really isn’t a problem (besides those I confided in who are in no position to take on me and my kids).

So, I leave and take my kids to a shelter. He’s the one with the largest income. The breadwinner. Since I left I don’t have a stable roof over my head. I go for divorce. I loose custody because I am living in a shelter and he’s better positioned to provide a stable healthy environment for the kids.

A lawyer has advised me that me leaving can work against me by some judges.

My experiences can’t be proved in a court of law. That’s why these people exist among us.

Honestly, I have no excuses to stay. I’ve faced other awful things in my life. Black is black and white is white for me. There have been periods of “what?”, but once I am clear on my decision I go for it.

So, hears the deal. I am objectively unable to support myself and my children independently. Me walking out the door in this manner very likely will tip the scales in his favor.

There’s no physical child abuse. The older ones know something is amiss but lack the life experience to make sense of it. We’re adults and we’re still trying to figure it out. The kids are doing very well academically and socially.

I’ve never experienced this specific situation so there may be options I am unaware of.

Me being afraid for my life to the extent that I walk out the door with nothing and with kids can not be proven in a court of law.

It’s a mess…I know.

Think about it. We are all here because we have all been bull dozed by emotional and psychological tyrants who sometimes make it physical. But, it can’t be proven (for the most part). Many of us here have lost dear family and friends because of these people. We end up looking like we are absolutely crazy.

The logistics are different for each of us. All of our situations are different but we have one commonality.

If I could prove to a court of law, who ultimately will determine with whom my kids will live, these experiences, I would.


I want to clarify something.

Our instincts are to be open, to love, to share, to smile, to laugh and instinctively appreciate other human beings for the gifts they impart on our lives. This does not make us weak at all.

Their instincts are to watch and destroy.

Just as we are very good at what we do, so are they. None of us are weak. Don’t blame yourself for anything. We don’t expect small children to be able to drive. It’s an experience they’ve never had such as what we are suffering. We must educate ourselves, find therapeutic ways of growing and developing ourselves to contribute to our and others lives moving forward.

We are all amazing and awesome!


Hi Ironiclife, sounds like you have done a lot of things to move your life forward. When I was in my tornado (my marriage) I honestly was so emotionally, mentally, physically broken down that I needed someone to give me a list of things that help them to leave or things they wish they would have done to get out sooner. I felt like a robot, zombie stepford life…the old me would never have needed an action plan from someone else but at that time I did so badly need someone to scoop me up and take me out of the fire. No one ever did because I was so isolated and I dear not tell anyone what was going on out of fear that my h (ex now) would harm me. So now I post things that might help someone leave their situation.

I get that you are afraid of the financial side…I think that is the hardest part for women having to stick out their relationship..this is exactly why the abuser manipulates the victims to have total control over them financially so they can not leave. But know that everyday that you stay is another day you will need to heal once you are out.

In order to stay 10 steps ahead of your abuser you need to plan the financial side out meaning plan ahead for divorce court. Here are some things to think about:

1) You can in your very first court motion (divorce filing) request Temporary alimony and temporary child support equivalent to your current finically status. To find out more call your local court house and request info on these two things. Or better if there is a state university near by go to their library and read up on these things. This is where your friends/family journals and as witnesses of the abuse you are enduring come into play. The judge will take others words seriously as it will eliminate the he said/she said (husband said/wife said) issues now you have witnesses to the abuse you told them about. Think about too getting a restraining order the same day as you filing your divorce.

You can also request that your car be put in your name and have him continue to pay the car payments. The judge then will say you are to drive such and such car, and your ex such and such car…and in the court papers you can ask for your ex to pay car insurance, gas etc…have a stipulation that if he does not pay the car insurance he will need to give the court the full amount of insurance money for the entire year. Think about stipulations ahead of time…if he does not do this then this will need to occur with in 10 days time etc.

This is something you will have to mentally and physically just do…it’s not going to be easy to get the motivation to do all of this hard work. But know that it is soooo worth it in the long run.

2) How to get him to pay child support etc…immediately have the court garnish his wages put this in that first court order or his say 401k plan. Then have the court hold the money or a lawyers escrow account to pay you month out of that fund. Then there is no issues with having to take your ex to court for the funds

3) PLAN PLAN PLAN now for your future divorce…it will be a nightmare to deal with him if you dont….I equate divorce from a sociopath as the bottom of hell…the marriage being hell. I did not plan ahead enough in this phase and I ended up mentally exhausted from all of his games in court. This is why it is important to plan ahead.

4) Find out know who the best lawyer who is extremely knowledgable with narcissist abuse then send a letter to that lawyer certified now to say when you are ready to leave you will be using them for their services. Do the same for the other top lawyers in your county…this way you have blocked him from using the best lawyers in your town. You have to beat him at his own game…divorce is a game…as much as well all hate games this is when you have to play hard ball.

5) Read the site books divorcing a narcissist/ask questions on fb pg One moms battle. One moms battle deals with all of the court issues a victim of a narcissist has to battle in court for…this site is truly a god sent to navigate the divorce courts.

6) When you do file divorce papers also get it in that court order that a mental evaluation on your husband needs to be done asap…ask on One moms battle for more info on this. This is a must! This is your way of protecting yourself long term with the courts as you can just refer back to his mental eval order regarding his behavior.

7) Read Finical divorce books…one that I bought was Divorce & Money by Nolo…you can find these at your local big box book stores or library.

It’s not easy to leave…When I was push to my limit in my 12 year marriage I would say I am done I am out of here right now…but then he would be nice, or get into a rage at me that I would be so mentally exhausted that I could not even think what I wanted for dinner let alone to think about packing up things and leaving.

My biggest regret when I left and found out from a counselor exactly who my ex was…was that I did not leave sooner and I did not listen to my gut from the second I met him!!

I looking forward to seeing that plane skywriting “Ironiclife is FREE AT LAST”!!!!

Take care!


IronicLife – good morning (here). I am reaching out to you today to send prayers and support. I am not out either and also in the midst of making plans. It is going much slower and many more snags that I thought there would be, so I *know* how you feel. It is draining and I wanted to validate your experience – I am right there with you.

You are not alone – I am thinking of you and praying for you today. One thing that is working for me right now is “gray rock” – showing no emotion to the spath. If that helps you in your situation – use it. Very best wishes to you.



Love the name. All I see is beauty when I read that…so refreshing from the muckity muck that these spaths force on us everyday. I love the term “gray rock”. I am an analytical person and need to be able to refer to things in one to two words. I think I’ve upped it to “black rock”. Not because I am a big bad momma, but because I am a fighter and my bloodline is one of strength. Honestly, I am insulted that he would even try this BS with me. I’ve even told my spath, “You don’t have even an ounce of respect for yourself to come up with a better lie than that? I am ashamed to be married to someone who lies on the level of a two-year old.”

But, no matter how strong I am no one can hold their defenses up all of the time. I used to think, “I know I am too good for this and much more intelligent than this idiot…yet I find myself here crying, yelling, angry, frustrated.” The strong are attacked as well as the weak. These spath attacks are no indication of our level of character. Is a zebra “weak” because it was caught by a lion? Do we say, “Man, that is one dumb ass zebra?” No we don’t. These monsters are predatory in nature. They sit an watch and then attack. What are we going to do? Never socialize or have a good time because we don’t know if there’s a spath in the midst, lying in the bush waiting to attack? No we must live but, we must be smart about it. One thing that separates humans from animals is the fact that humans can think critically. We can analyze situations and make adjustments as necessary on the fly. Animals predominately work off a hard wired instinct. When the drought is at it’s height the elephant still goes to the mud puddle where crocodiles await and other predators are milling around because “elephant need water…elephant must drink.” A human would analyze, plan and almost die of thirst before taking those risks. Although, it may not seem like it, these spaths are hard wired like animals. They operate from a base instinct to destroy and they can’t help it. So, we have to plan, think, analyze and execute. Let’s use their predatory nature against them. Watch animal shows, especially those about the plains of Africa, on National Geographic and see how animals do seemingly dumb things (not all but most) out of instinct. Then apply that knowledge to these spaths. They’re animals. I learn the behavior of animals and I find I can read my spath. Does anyone go to war without studying their opponent’s thinking, methods of attack, even their budget? Nope. We study our opponents. I’ve never cared for the game of chess because it takes too long and requires deep thinking and strategy. This is the largest chessboard I’ve ever seen…my life. The hell with…Game on! Let’s do this people. We are awesome!!


To: NotWhatHeSaidofMe

You are right in that ex-abuser did not succeed in totally destroying me. He did a major dent though. I thought I was better until I met the next guy recently. I realized I’m not well. I am still so damaged and I think this guy saw this and he started to erode my self-esteem too. It will be four year anniversary this July 4 since I left my ex-abuser. Just to meet another guy four years later who is expecting me to pay more than I can afford to pay. It started out great, but it lasted only two weeks. The guy really has helped me out with projects on my property, but I can’t afford to pay money too. If I had the money to pay this I would, but I find that I am too strapped to pay my house insurance and property taxes since I met him. and then next thing car insurance will be due again. He claims to make $3000.00 per month. My monthly income is $750.00. When I try to explain my limited income he gets crappy and says everyone has bills. And, he said recently that he cut a huge load of firewood to sell it, yet he didn’t bring enough money and he said Saturday night out is McDonalds, and by Sunday he asked me to buy his beer and cigarettes. It was so humiliating the way he went about it. We were at my local grocery store at check-out counter. He put his arm around my shoulders and asked me to pay for his beer and cigarettes. I was so embarrassed that people who see this, and know that I’m with yet another loser. I quickly agreed just to get out of there! I was mortified!

I feel so stupid cause the guy isn’t a cute boy-toy. He is a gnarly old man, and I’m buying???????????????????


I totally agree with Jan7. Make your plans on the sly. Never let your husband know what you are up to. Abusive people are quite calculating and they know how to turn everything around on you. The guy could have you put in jail cause he is that good.

I wasn’t able to leave my abusive husband until my kids were in school full time. Cause back then the shelters offered nothing much. They may still not offer a lot because of budget cuts. I’m not trying to tell anyone to stay in abuse. But, I am saying to make sure you have a fool-proof plan before you leave, or you will go back in desperation. Can you imagine how bad he will be once he realizes your not afraid to leave?

Make sure you have good coverage with road assistance for your car. Cause he will be tampering with your car, and if he is that crazy he might be tampering with your best friends car.

Make sure your kids school has a copy of the court papers stating that you are the custodial parent. And, that dad is only allowed to pick up kids if you say so. And, if you are terribly hurt in a accident that only your best girlfriend can pick up kids, and not your ex.

And, something I never thought of. Have your friends write letters of character reference for you. My ex-husband claimed, during our divorce, that I think I’m god’s gift to man. It worked like a charm, to turn the court against me. My ex had me pushed up against a wall. My ex was the well dressed ladies man. He made sure he didn’t have a hair out of place. I was the raggedy scrub woman who followed him in tow, with my hands always full, and with our kids hanging on my shirt tails. Yet, he got the court believing I thought I was a sex goddess.



The new guy I met doesn’t do that stare down. Instead he rolls his eyes, and shakes his head in disapproval. Or does that little laugh and then shoots me down.

And, to think that it was just weeks ago that I was ok being alone and very happy and getting things done. Now I’m feeling tormented, and harassed, and very much alone.


Then again, I take that back. he did do that stare down when I didn’t shut my kitchen cabinet door. And he did that stare down again when I didn’t empty my lint trap on my dryer. It didn’t matter that it was a busy week with roofing contractor out and we had to pitch in labor and I was washing bf clothes and my clothes and I got behind. NO EXCUSE he said, it could cause a lint fire in dryer. Do I really need to be called on the carpet?


We must never ever forget that no matter where we are in our fight with sociopaths we eventually triumph and life will get better .


Thank you for this post. I’ve just joined this page and was hoping to write a longer piece on my own experience, but didn’t find the link to start a new thread.


universallove…you may write anywhere you like. We would love to hear from you.


Dear all,

Sharing my story has given me the strength and the encouragement to move forward in my life despite the chaos with the spath I married. For many, many years, I hid the truth of my life behind the illusions of a “perfect” life and marriage he showed to the world (and I readily complied in spite of what I knew) because it was easier to do so than not. I did not want to admit to myself or anyone that I had made a mistake or had been conned. Shame, embarrassment, anger (at myself mostly) and abject confusion controlled me and my ability to formally leave and end it. Once I actively admitted it openly, I started to move forward even though progress was slow at first. Now progress is accelerating as I traverse the divorce process.

My marriage ended many years ago but I stayed tied to him out of fear and exhaustion. I was ill and tired on every possible level. Drained and devoid of any energy would better describe how I felt at that time. Though I was able to acknowledge and take ownership of my own contributions to the failure of our marriage, I was tired of his inability to do the same. More importantly, I was tired of fighting a fight that was never ending; tired of being blamed for virtually everything that went wrong in our marriage; tired of feeling broken down, beaten down and wounded; tired of his lies, denials and delusions of grandeur coupled with his enormous sense of entitlement; tired of being his scapegoat, his target for public humiliation; tired of experiencing the shame I felt privately; tired of being told what to do, what I could not do, who I could see or couldn’t; what I could think, feel or believe. I knew there were issues all along; I lived and breathed them – felt them at the core of my being for many, many years. And yet, even though my own anger and resentment grew, I couldn’t leave…could not actively seek a divorce. I was paralyzed and stymied by the emotional quicksand that had submerged my life and my energy.

My spath left me in the guise of my wanting him to leave. I didn’t in all actuality, but he coerced me into creating this illusion so that he could blame me for it in the end. As we traverse a nasty divorce, my prediction that this would be the case has come true. I am not all that surprised by this, as he is pathetically predictable in every way, shape and form. Be that as it may, his departure helped me to heal and gain some measure of perspective in my life. Not hearing him scream at me over and over again has helped me to calm myself. Not walking on eggshells wondering who would meet me at the door has also helped, but the damage was done. The despair I felt in reinventing myself and my life – after having lost everything literally – was overpowering for me. That I got up every day and went to work, and managed to thrive there even still, was a miracle. Inner strength remained underneath the rubble of my life and feelings.

What I have learned in these years apart from him is that he would inevitably stumble and trip over himself. He believed that he knew me; believed that he knew how to predict my behavior in response to his actions, but that arrogance failed him. He didn’t know that I have watched him steadily like a hawk, digesting his every action and behavior as if he were under the microscope; didn’t know that I had my own plan of action. As intelligent as he is, he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.

In the end, I have learned a lot from this experience, mostly about myself and what I need and don’t need in my life.

Will I get through it? Yes, I will. I may be damaged. I may be tired. I may be sad and exhausted, but I will prevail.

With every best wish to everyone…


I am not going to be damaged. I am VERY damaged. Im going to get over that. That is what I’ve decided. It’s a pretty good goal I think. The first goal I’ve ever made that is totally dependent on me. All other goals are other-dependent once you have responsibilites such as serious bf, let alone husband, children, aging/handicapped parents (you mite never even get to be responsibility-free if you’ve got handicapped parent(s) from your teen years). You may be CAPABLE and WILLING to do what it takes to do A, B or C but if you’re not *free* to, you just can’t. You could even try and “succeed” in some fashion, but what will most likely happen is you will injure yourself, physically or mentally. I read and listen to so many overachievers who make themselves ILL and take a decade or more to heal. The medical system in the States is ridiculous. Forcing interns to work 48 hr shifts, 120 hrs a week for several years. It’s not right.
Anyway, this is something that I can work on, little by little, in odd moments or occasional splurges of gifted-time. I can do it with life happening still. I can get rid of the damage.
When I read your words, that you may be damaged, it set these thots off in me. I made a goal 🙂


To Roar2014: My ex would come home for lunch. (cause his job of heating/AC kept him local in the neighborhood) He was an emotional vampire who would bore me out of my mind complaining about his customers and saying how stupid they are cause they don’t know how to fix their own furnace. He would leave me feeling so exhausted that I just wanted to nap, but I had small children to tend to. Well, he told me that the number one reason for a NO Heat Call is kids are playing in the basement and the kids turned off the furnace switch. Well, when my husband was removed from the house by the police and he got visitation. He used his visitation to get back at me. He would purposely show up early to pick up kids so I wasn’t watching him cause I was hurrying the kids along. He turned off the furnace switch. It was winter. The house didn’t start to get cold until about 1/2 hour after he picked up kids. The furnace didn’t kick in. I told myself DON’T PANIC. I went down in the basement, didn’t know what I was looking for. I looked over the furnace, and noticed that a switch that looks like a light switch was on the front of the furnace. It was off. I flipped the switch and the furnace kicked in. I had to chuckle, cause I knew that he thought I would be calling him crying for his help. So I never said a word. I was cackling thinking about him sitting by his phone twiddling his thumbs waiting for my call. To this day I never said a word to him about it. Hey, I listened to all his long boring stories about his job and he never knew that he was teaching me how to defend myself against his ruthless tactics.



I am dying with laughter…yes laughter…because I’ve had similar experiences with my spath. Sometimes I think to myself, “Wow, that’s your best shot?” The irony (if you’ll notice my name) is that they aren’t overly intelligent. Actually, my spath is a bit of a moron. They function on “play…repeat” and they can’t break the cycle. That’s why they manipulate and operate in confusion because once we sit and observe it all becomes clear (painful, but clear nonetheless). I don’t even confront my spath anymore (yes,still here and working on leaving…in the words of my seven year old…”Don’t judge me”… ;))

When he does say something moronic I literally chuckle or look out into space as if I am seeking an answer. These people are driven by pure evil. They aim to destroy anything of beauty.

But, we ARE intelligent. We ARE beautiful. I don’t mind being broken…broken can be fixed. Might need some duct tape, but what they hell…since we suffered this crap may as well be even better on the other end. I look at it like this (only because I’m going through it. I would derail anyone I saw possibly approaching such this HellBound Express…no way…no one should have to suffer like this), if a butterfly is helped from its cocoon it dies. Why? The struggle of breaking free initiates and facilitates blood flow to its wings thus strengthens the butterfly for its first flight…in essence, preparing it for survival. Since we’ve been trapped in this cocoon of hell, let’s fight our way out to come out even more beautiful than we started!

Luv You All…truly…Smooches and hugs…stay strong


Listen to this one. The guy was working a story on me all day today. He left message early in afternoon asking if I still wanted to go to fireworks tonight (first time I had heard from him in days) He also said in message that tree fell on his wood splitter. I got his message and called back and left message. He got back with me a little later. He asked if I got his pictures. I asked what is he talking about. He really didn’t seem to want to tell me what the pictures were about. I was busy and insisted on knowing if these pictures were important, important enough for me to turn on computer when I was BUSY. Then he told me the pictures were of tree falling on his splitter. Keep in mind that this is 2:00 in afternoon. He insisted I look at the pictures. As he hinting around that this may take him all day. I wasn’t having it. He has disappointed me too many times. The splitter is on his property, it’s not like it’s on someone elses property. Then he called me at 6:00pm and said he still hasn’t figured out the splitters situation and will have to cancel out and how about next weekend? I said I will think about it. He hesitated and then tried to make it up to me with more promises for next weekend. I said no. He then said he will try his best to make it here tonight for the 10:00pm fireworks. Well, of course he never showed up, and no call. I missed the fireworks and he better never step foot on my property or I will cut off his two inch weenie.

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