By | June 30, 2010 434 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: This was all about him and all about what he needed

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following story from a reader who we’ll call “Kay.”

Kay and the Loser in Aluminum Foil ”¦


He was prince charming, at least to me he was. We liked the same music, the same food, we spoke about the same topics, liked frequenting the same places, everything was so right.

My friends, however, had a complete aversion to his instant overbearing interest in all things Kay. He completely immersed himself in my life and was constantly “making sure” I was okay. He made sure he monopolized all my time. He would call me approximately 20-25 times a day. During working hours he made sure he called me at least 12 times. My friends did not think this was healthy, I thought it to be quite flattering. He wanted to know everything about me, everything my ex-husband of 15 years did not care about, he did. From what perfume I wore, to what my favorite color was, my favorite food, my problems with my friends, what caused the demise of my marriage, what I really wanted out of life. This was all his way of controlling me and my every move. This would also help him know what buttons to push. He wanted to know who I was with at all times, where I was, how long I had been there, where I was going, what I was wearing. It was upsetting to everyone around me, however, I found it strangely comforting that someone cared so much about every single detail.

As time went on, I realized that he made 100 percent sure that everything I was lacking in my former relationship he would make certain NOT to give me this go around. Empty promises were the basis of everything to do with us. His wife had left him. She had filed for divorce to be with another man, another man that had promised her the world. He made himself out to be a grand victim of her mistreatment. She never did anything right. She could not move out right away. He would photograph her shoes on the floor that she had not placed properly in the closet, he would take pictures of her clothing stacked up in a corner, he would call her derogatory names, but it did not change the way he treated me. For me he was a knight in shining armor.


It became apparent he was a casebook misogynist. He hates women. Actually he loathes them. It took me a while to really realize this man had no friends, family members stayed away. He complained that her family hated him and they were instrumental in the demise of their marriage. I believe his former wife’s family wanted what was best for her, which was clearly not him. From all accounts, everyone that knew of that relationship never understood why they were together and why she would put with this broken behavior. I think he destroyed her self worth and confidence, something he was never able to do to me.

Sex was another ordeal. It took months before it happened and it was over in minutes. So long as he got what he wanted, how he wanted it, it was fine. It had nothing to do with pleasure, only control. Control over everything. For me, it was emotionally and physically painful and even more painful to watch how someone could so completely disconnect himself from the act and transform into what was his real persona, empty. He was devoid of actual feelings. Devoid of anything real. Pain is all he knew. Guilt, domination, gaslighting. Classic textbook sociopath.

I called off the relationship on several occasions because I was tired of the empty promises. He promised vacations, holidays together, all sorts of outings. He strung me along to punish me. I was being punished for the love his mother did not give him, and I was further being punished for the things his ex-wife did not do “correctly.” She could do nothing right and he was the victim. Actually, in time I realized we were all victims of his wrath. He found women who were extremely attractive and tried to break them down to the point where they lost their identity and became what he wanted them to become—dependent on him and his mood swings and his dysfunctional behavior.

Wants me back

I broke off the relationship and when he found out that I became engaged to another man, he quickly came back professing his love and even so much as “planning” the purchase of engagement ring. He had made a mistake; he could not live without me. Not for a minute. He wrote page long emails, texting me 24/7, calling me, visiting me at work, everything. I called off the engagement and returned to this “magical” situation. He was once again my “knight in shining armor.” Of course that did not last very long. Several weeks at most. Then we were back to the same old control/punishment cycle. I quickly realized he was not Knight in Shining Armor but a Loser in Aluminum Foil.

I was always crazy and his favorite lines were, “that is not what I said,” “I don’t know what you are talking about.” He had a hidden addiction to pornography that was quite disturbing to me. It was a “bad thing” and it had to be a secret. He was very secretive about everything, however, he required that you give full disclosure; this was so he could control everything at all times.

It became apparent to a friend of mine through a “social networking site” that he had been stringing the former wife along the entire time, giving her some sort of hope. My friend began forwarding those “status updates” which were indicative that something more was going on than met the eye. Naturally he denied it. Everyone was lying. When I confronted him, he said he did not want to be in this relationship and he did not know what he wanted. He was a pathological liar and I started seeing the holes in his stories. The stories became a sort of “strainer.” They would not hold water.

Never going to work

Everything finally came to a head on my birthday when I realized that this was never ever going to be a good or healthy relationship. This was all about him and all about what he needed. He asked me to be patient with him and give him time and that I was wanting to run to the altar. No. What I wanted was a normal relationship, someone that was consistent. Something he could not relate to at all. He was devoid of any emotion and when some emotion (sadness) came about at the loss of this relationship, he would quickly disappear and block. Avoidance is key with these individuals. They don’t want to feel. They hate themselves and they want you to hate yourself. They will avoid everything, including you. They move on to the next victim and repeat the cycle.

I was in this situation for nearly one year and a half. These types of individuals will make sure NEVER TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT MOST. Whatever that might be. They give you the false hope that this will happen, just not right now. No, it’s never happening. Not now, not in a month, not in 10 years. I did everything right. Right for someone normal, not sociopathic.

Breaking it off for good is very difficult. They love to leave “open-ends” to their phone calls, texts and actions. They want to know that they are still in control by leaving that window open. Lock it; board it up!

They are broken individuals. They don’t want help; they want to victimize themselves and others. That is how they get their kicks. I was wise enough to get out before it escalated. I am now engaged to a wonderful and, most importantly, a normal man. He functions normally and loves me and my child. He makes good on all his promises and comes through for us.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, but of course, one must heal before this happens.

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Kay, Welcome to LF and at the same time, I’m sorry you’re here because everyone here has dealt with one of these individuals and they leave a trail of pain, chaos, lies and manipulation. You wrote so clearly about the fact that they ARE broken. I applaud you for realizing that you DID do everything right, because you did. It’s not in their world to handle that because they simply don’t have the capacity, nor do they feel the need, to be REAL.

You are so correct, they want to victimize themselves and others as well. The key point is that they always turn everything into a situation is which they are the victim. Every confrontation was turned and twisted with my ex. He was, and still is, the victim in everything. And yes, my ex had the thing with the porn. So many similarities…

Oh the phone calls! Yes, mine would call me up to 24 times a day and when he couldn’t reach me, he would call others and have them call me. It was insane and yes, at first, it was flattering and after awhile, it was a nuisance. I would finally answer just because I couldn’t stand the phone ringing. IT’S ALL ABOUT CONTROL. Plain and simple.

The DO leave open ends in their communications with us. And they never truly let go of someone, just like yours keeping on contact with his ex-wife. They always want to have an “in” and they are infuriated when that’s cut off. And then there’s the revenge, which comes in many forms.

I’m glad you wrote and shared your story. Telling it helps so many others.

Ox Drover

Dear Kazy,


QUOTE: “Loser in aluminum foil!” ROTFLMAO LOL HAR DE HAR HAR

Woman, You made my day with that quote! It is SO RIGHT ON!!!!! I can’t wait to “steal” it and use it some time. (with your permission and I’ll give you credit) LOL

Oh, my goodness, thank you so omuch for such a great laugh! Glad you are here! God Bless!

Ox Drover



Thanks for sounding so honest, you have been
through hell with the loser in aluminium foil!!
You are ten million miles ahead of me because you have found a normal man, and I just loved it when you said:

“He makes good on all his promises and comes through for us”

I’m emotional about that. That is the way it should be, could be. It’s beautiful, it makes me sad but it gives me hope.

I am in the process of healing, and doing a good job. It feels slow but I think it’s more thorough than slow…I am really recovering from the roots up…no contact nearly a year, but the flashbacks still persist and I descend into hate, but I am coming through for me…Really giving myself the time to come out of this whole, life altered but whole.

The experience nearly killed me psychologically and emotionally, I feel I have been brainwashed and tortured…but I cling to the hope that most people are normal and I will find one to share this great big wonderful world with…sometime.

Thanks for really hitting home to me things can get better, and I am so happy to think of you and your child with a man who fulfils his promises and comes through for you!!! yay!


I cannot tear myself away from this article and the blogs—-I could have written all these words -and they are written by someone else !!

My prayer is that the scriptures that say–“As a man(woman) sow; so shall they reap” found in Proverbs; holds true for the sociopath as well—-
I am new here-



Same church, different pew. I was in the gay version of your relationship. I went through 15 months of holy hell, finally ending when I drove S-ex out of my life in November 2008.

Looking back from the perspective of 19 months and a year in a healthy relationship with a wonderful man, I now look back and still ponder the emotional make-up of these nonhuman vehicles of discord. At the beginning I was knocked off my feet by all the attention and all the emotion. By the end, all I remember is watching one of his big emotional shows and being struck by how little was going on below the surface. A moment after a crying storm in a public place and he turned on a dime and was chatting up someone on the next stool.

Although I wouldn’t wish S-ex on anybody, I think I had to learn the lessonb of S-ex. I grew up with an S father and a malignant N mother. To say that I kept repeating those “relationships” over and over throughout my life is an understatement. After S-ex I finally got really clear about what I needed and what I wanted and why I kept gravitating to the cluster-Bs. Once I did that I was finally able to open myself up for a healthy relationship.

Control. Manipulation. Lack of reciprocity. Emotional frigidity. Sexual withholding. Amazing how all these guys sing from the same hymnal.


Ox Drover

Dear Mucki,

Welcome to LF! Glad you found your way here! I think we all or most of us anyway felt the same way when we first arrived in this mecca of healing! Felt like we had written every word! Keep on reading (there are over 700 great articles in the archives) and remember that KNOWLEDGE=POWER so take back your power over your own life! Again Welcome. And blessings


Oh, My G-d. THANK YOU!
THANK YOU for posting this today. Thank you for telling yet again my story. Sex with him was beautiful, extreme, he could disengage and go on as long as you wanted him to. he could tune in and out at a whim. My whim. That is how he controlled me too. I thank you for posting this.
I was going to cancel an important MH appointment for my child tomorrow: he does so much better when not around P for a longer period of time. But, after reading this – I will keep my appointment as painful as it is to go down that road.


I read and read, and its like all of you are writing about my ex-S. I was married for 20 years and it was all good. He was the best actor ever, I thought that his previous wife was crazy for giving him a hard time, what a Bi**tch. He had to leave her and his family because he had to leave the province, because she was impossble to be around….so I thought.
He was so attentive, helped me, took care of me in all ways. As soon as I discovered him about 1 and 1/2 years ago, his mask dropped and that was it, I and my two kids were discarded and thrown in the garbage. He now lives with a new women 22 years younger, and she has 4 kids, she also left her husband. I have not had contact with him since he left and the kids have not talked to their father for that long also. He has no use for his kids, they refused to live with him after he battered me before he left. My revenge is that I do not have contact with him, and I am dating. He knows it because of Facebook, so happens that his new wife creeps Facebook, and a friend of mine knows her….she reads everything, including mine. Don’t get me wrong, my heart and soul have been raped and raped, I will never be the same again, but I keep on going…have to. My kids need me and I need myself to be whole again. I will never let a man like that get me down. I need to survive, I love life and my family. So I do it on purpose, I post messages on Facebook to my lover knowing that she will see it. She actually send an email to my daughter asking why the kids did not communicate with their father….I am sure the ex-S asked her to send the email, becasue he is too coward to do it…sends other people to stand in front of the firing squad, they are such cowards. Anyway my daughter did not reply, nothing, nada, zippo, we have severed all contact. They must be reeling in anger….thats my revenge. And of course I make it a point to let the Ex-S know that life goes on without him, he lost out, not us. He is not worth anything. Like I said, I am so broken inside that only people on this blog would understand, but we must never show weakness…they love it. They thrive on it. The stronger you stand, the more they back away.
They are the devil incarnate. They have been put on earth to test our faith, and we must keep strong. It will pass, I am better than 1 year ago, but still have a hard time trusting anyone. And dating is ok, but I cannot find that excitment….I think I am not really ready, but I do it so I can get back out there. Take care everyone. Stay strong….they hate it.

Ox Drover

Dear Suvivorlady,

I’m glad you found your way here to LF, this is a healing place. Healing takes TIME though, so don’t rush yourself.

Keep on reading and learning, and in reality you are FORTUNATE he doesn’t care a carp about you or your kids, so don’t even waste your time leaving “happy messages” he will stumble across or his wife will—he could care less.

You will be better off if you can put him OUT OF YOUR HEAD and not rent him space there. NO CONTACT., Even thinking of getting “revenge” by letting him know about your life today is “contact” aqnd will slow down YOUR healing. This whole thing starts out about THEM, but ends up about USD, our healing and our PEACE.

I’m glad he is out of your kids’ lives, they are better off wihtout him. They must, like you, hurt though, and I am glad that they have you to help them through this difficult time in their lives.

Yes, they test our faith, and in the end, we get our best “revenge” by living a good life. The pain will grow dimmer and the peace and happiness will return! Knowledge=power so take back your power. Learn about them, but also learn about yourself! ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you and your kiddos.

Ox Drover

Dear Gem,

I saw your post on gaslight effect thread but reception is bad so can’t get on that thread. Will reply when I get service there enough to get on it! LOL

Hi, Darlin Oxy, yes, i DID reply to your blog, thanks for not boinking me a good one! I know I did it to MYSELF, and it DID hurt, but still Im glad I got to see what these precious kids look like now, even if it was bitter sweet. Im GLAD i wrote to Rebecca,{now 11,} maybe one day she will come looking for me, who knows? Anyway, I have to put all this on the back burne now, and leave it with God. Im STILL trying to get my head a round what a biatch my 2nd D is, even worse than the other one, really.Complete control freak, cold, ruthless, snobby, money hungry ,heartless.R looks so like she did at her age, I can only pray she is not a spath too.Lots of love, and {{{HUGS back!!}}}}Gem.XXX


GettingIt and everyone

Thanks for articulating the sex with spath area! I find it impossible to go there, my mind isn’t “flashing” haha that back yet…
maybe I’m not ready…it’s still foggy…didn’t know what was going on, and I’m afraid of finding out…

this morning I was thinking would it have been easier to get over an attack by someone out of the blue, being beaten , raped and robbed and left on the side of the road for dead?

is a relationship with a psychopath not a long drawn out, slow motion version of essentially the same thing?


I can totally relate to Kay’s post. I have been with spath for 5 years now and it has been HELL!!! I believe too that now that spath knows I see through him, he is now “secretively” planning his exit or worse, revenge. I pray God will intervene every day. The man has no conscience and every thing he has done that might appear good for others sake is always, always, always about a hidden agenda that is totally and completely self serving
I recorded a conversation he had with the one person in his world that he will talk to and the whole time spath was hinting around that he just needed to figure out a way to get out of this marriage without getting a divorce. That;’s scary to me especially given spath’s past. His own mother told me that he is “dangerously smart” and an almost perfect actor. He stole their identity and put them thousands and thousands of dollars into debt and has not paid a penny back to them even though he told me he was terrible for doing that and that he asked them for forgiveness. His parents (he thinks) and maybe he’s right are comfortably wealthy. When I asked him to tell his dad if he was going to leave him an inheritance that he didn’t want it, it was really a test to back up what he tells me about how much he loves me, im his soul mate, his best friend and so on. This was mentioned to his cousin during their conversation that I actually had the nerve to ask him to do something like that. His cousin said I was crazy and he wouldn’t trust me as far as he could throw me.

The porn problem, exact same thing. He’s had 7 different jobs since I have been with him, two times that I am absolutely certain of he was fired partly because of his hidden porn addiction, of course he denied it acting so outraged that I could even think he was capable of doing that. and I had hard copy proof of his computer at work. He would always get to work an hour before anyone else and the report showed the times he logged onto the internet, under his email account and then the surfing begain, really shocking to me what he was into.

I can’t ever even discuss sex, or question him about porn. If I do, he becomes a stone wall and won’t speak to me for days, and gives me the silent treatment. Sex is nothing more than body parts and an orgasm for him. It’s awful for me. the first two years when we would be finished having an orgasm, he would go on and on about how fantastic we were together, how great the sex was, how it’s the best he’s ever had. I would agree and think to myself, how utterly detached it all was.

I have to wonder if it’s the same man we are talking about. Too similar to not wonder.


I am SO HAPPY that you are all able to benefit from my story. There are so many things we experience with individuals like this that it is like a movie reel. It doesn’t seem real. Never real. How could someone so loving, turn so quickly. The feelings were never real to begin with. That is the scariest part of all. Someone who could FAKE AN ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP. Entire. Just the other day I recieved a text that he could view my FB profile pic and that I looked beautiful as usual. Loser. Of course I did not respond. This is his way of “staying in”. He is out and I am glad he is gone. My life would have been a living hell with this man.


Kay777 says:

“These types of individuals will make sure NEVER TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT MOST. Whatever that might be.”

This is so true…but they sure can paint the picture for us, can’t they?
They can paint the picture, but they cannot bring it to fruition.
They are brilliant at reading us and tapping into our desires, and then presenting it to us, as if they are the ones who will deliver where everyone else has failed.
What a joke.

I think that’s what left a lot of us devestated….because we believed in the fantasy….which is what it all turned out to be in the end…just a fantasy/illusion.

That’s why it’s never a good idea to depend on someone else for your happiness, or to validate that you are a person worthy of love.
These things need to come from within, I think.


Rosa your comment is eerie at best! The day after we met, he stated “I had difficulty READING YOU” I was not sure if you were interested or not. That is exactly what they do, the scan your reactions, lack thereof and make up for it. They are excellent illusionists. Excellent. Since their life is empty and devoid of real feelings, making them up is fun for these people. It makes them FEEL different, but they quickly retract and head back to their old ways. It has to be exhausting to be them. Faking their feelings their entire way through life.

It is just an illusion. SMOKE AND MIRRORS. They mean nothing they say, and say nothing they mean my dear. Nothing. It is all a manipulation tactic on their part to keep you there.


“They love to leave “open-ends” to their phone calls, texts and actions. They want to know that they are still in control by leaving that window open.”

I believe this is one of the biggest indicators that there is very little depth to these disordered personalities.
They believe the door is still open for them, even when the door is SO NOT OPEN.
Are they really that oblivious to other people’s feelings or are they just that arrogant??

Healthy people want CLOSURE.
There is no closure with these freaks.

I could get back together with my ex-boyfriend right now if I wanted to, even though I have not seen him in years.
I’m not being arrogant here.
It’s just that I KNOW this man….because I was involved with him for almost 10 years.
All I would have to do is make one phone call to him, telling him that I miss him, and that I made a mistake (notice I would have to take the blame for everything).
And, we would be back on like Donky Kong in a few weeks.
Of course, that’s never going to happen, because too much has happened in the past…..things I never want to re-live.

But, the door is always open with these varmints.
It just depends on how much abuse you wish to endure.


Bibleannie. Yes their exit will be a very quick and silent one. Very stealthish. He is totally self serving. They all are for the most part. It is about what they can benefit from and what they can gain from you.

I have been where you are at. Reading these blogs they all sound like the same man. They are all the “same man” in different casings. They are pathological liars, and have very very DARK sides to them. The porn addiction was something that had and I discovered due to pictures he forwarded me by accident. He was simply devastated when I found out and wanted to cover it up immediately. He could barely function sexually. Sex was something that happened so infrequently that it set me back. I was like “what is wrong with this man”. This has never happened before.

His attempt was to make me feel undesirable. Not happening. He would try harder to make me undesirable. Not happening. He was losing control. I have always taken great pride in keeping myself in good shape and have a great figure. It was not me he was not attracted to, it was his brain! He was and is broken.


GettingIt … Dear I relate completely. Everything feels like its in slow motion, a movie. Trust me when I tell you, you will get past this! Don’t avoid the process though. You need to obsess and then you will no longer care. We obsess over it because we don’t understand the way their mind works so naturally, we are mystified by their behavior, like freak show of sorts. Nothing you want near you. Ever. The red flags are red BANNERS! Run!



The very first date I had with the ex-boyfriend…..we were in this great restaurant having dinner.

He STARED across the table at me and said, “You’re a hard person to read.”

I thought he was staring at me because he was attracted to me, and he said I was “hard to read” because he was genuinely interested in me.

No….he was just trying to size me up for manipulative purposes.


Rosa that is what this man did with his former wife FOR YEARS. Left her at the altar twice and she still came back. From what I have seen she is a very attractive woman and did not need to put up with this degradation but she did.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT HIM BACK. If he is still available its because other women have been quick to see what we did not. That is why he is still alone.

You go back to that he will PUNISH you day in and day out for everything. The honeymoon period will become a HELLMOON. The toxic cycle will begin.

There is never closure because closure is REJECTION. Rejection is something only they do. You can’t do that to them therefore they leave the door open, you come back they reel you in, the torture begins, and then they reject YOU. You feel at a loss and return to the same cycle again.

There are so many wonderful men out there! Find one that is Normal and you will be so very happy.


ROSA – That is exactly what he told me! They are seeing if you are vulnerable enough to fall into their little trap. Sociopaths are very charming and love to lure women into their little “verbal” traps. Actions though, never follow… It is all talk Rosa. All talk. They never come through on anything. Never.


Cat – The calls were all the time. Incessant. At first very flattering, then annoying, then harrassing at best. They feel they are losing control and when that call is picked up, the regain control all over again. He would ask me “who is that I hear in the back”. It was the TV set. I mean, are you kidding me.

They are very BROKEN. Just look at them and their reactions. They are not normal. Their behavior, erratic. Moody, judgmental, perfectionists (even though they cant stand themselves). It is horrible. When you meet someone normal, you so appreciate the difference.

I can tell you one thing, one hit with this type of individual and I will NEVER again be put in that position. Never. The cycle must be broken. It begins with silence on your part.

You must mourn the loss as a death. A death of a fictional character. Something that was not real.


I know I haven’t been on here awhile but I’m shocked of the story. Wow. But my dad is just taking the life out of me. He already doesn’t want to take care of me or help me with going to college. Today he said that I also have to pay for my phone bill. I just only make 300 dollars a week and it goes pretty quickly. Thanks to college things! I just can’t handle this and he keeps lying to his family members. My mom is begging me to come stay with her for the last part of the summer but I have a job here. She says that she will provide the money I need for everything. I just don’t know what is best. Quit my job and stay with my mom or keep the job and deal with my dad.

Ox Drover

Dear Bibleannie,

HE IS TALKING ABOUT HOW TO GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP WITHOUT A DIVORCE? Hon, go read the thread and article on Murderous psychopaths. Darling get out of that relationship, what are you waiting for? Him to try to kill you?

Listen to what the man is SAYING—God alone only knows what he is planning. This is a warning from God woman, get out while you can!!!! (((((Hugs))))) and my prayers!


That makes sense now, I have asked spath several times over the years if I was doing something to where he didn’t like having sex with me, I was baffled that he has never held me at night while we sleep, if he wanted sex, it was always announced ahead of time and the act itself was so devoid of any emotions, just all about how great he was and he never, ever liked laying in bed after the act to cuddle, always he would jump up, get dressed and push me to get up with him. Having sex with him averaged maybe 2 times a month in the very beginning, now it’s down to every six months. I did take notice though that the 1 or two times he was on fire during the act and really wanted it was after we had been around some really hot, young girl. He hates that I see through it all. The facade isn’t working with me anymore and I know that is why he’s secretly seeking a divorce or a way to get out without losing anything. He’s such evil and deceitful

Ox Drover

Dear Hurtnomore,.

I thought I remembered your mom lives out of the US and your dad lives in US. Is that correct?

Maybe you could go live with your mother and go to school in her country. That way you would be totally away from him.

Now that you are an ADULT (out of high school) your dad has no LEGAL obligation to provide you even a place to live, much less a telephone, or to provide you with money to go to college. If he DOES help you by giving you a place to stay without rent, and buys your food, etc. he is within his legal rights to determine just how MUCH financial help he gives you.

I don’t know how much your phone bill is but some phone bills with various services can be very very high, and others can be only $20 a month for a basic calls only plan. So you might look at ways to keep your phone bill down to the BARE minimum rather than having one with all the bells and whistles, and then you could pay it yourself, or if it was very low, he might even agree to pay it.

Unfortunately for many of us the years of going to college meant we had to work as well as go to school, keep our grades up so we could keep a partial scholarship, and do without many things we would have liked to have had, including new clothes etc. In the end, it was worth it to complete college though. The way the economy is right now, a college degree is going to be a minimum entry requirement to a good job. So work hard, this won’t be forever.


My mom lives outside the United States and she agrees to pay for the phone bill. Its not the fact that its high because I barely talk on the phone. He just wants to see me suffer. The plan was to go to where my mom lives for at least 3 weeks then come back. I have to get ready for school. My mom wants to pay for college. I’m okay with paying for my own phone bill but my mom is very upset. I’m going to college in another state about 4-5 hours away.


I started to hate it when the phone rang. I am self-employed, so I HAVE to answer calls and some of my clients use blocked numbers, which he started to use as well. It became a nightmare for me. When I asked him WHY he kept calling, he said that he would keep calling until I answer and even THEN he would call back 5 minutes later! Aaarrrghh.. Oh yes, I got the questions about the TV too! He would ask who I was with, who I was talking to. At one point, we lived in an apartment complex that his mother ran. He would call her and tell her to come over and knock on my door and she did it! How crazy is that?

Yes, it’s true. We have to mourn the death of something that never really existed and in the meantime, the SHELL of the person we thought we fell in love with is still walking the face of the earth, destroying more people each day.

hurtnomore, Ox makes a lot of sense. I too, think staying with your mother might be a good thing, if to just get away from your father. You can always get a job and go to college there. College years ARE sparse years for most of us, but it’s worth it in the end.

bibleannie, I read your posts. Get away from him NOW, honey. This is the type of person that I would be afraid of and I’m not trying to scare you anymore than you already are, but this is a bad situation all the way around. You said it yourself; he is evil and deceitful. Sometimes it can be very hard to get away from one of them, especially if they know that’s what you want. There are a LOT of good articles on here about how to get away from one of them. I would read through those again and again. So many on here, myself included, have been through this process and it takes logic and calm in the face of a storm to do it, but you CAN do it. I’m sending you prayers and courage.


hurtnomore, I’m guessing your mother is upset because she knows your father all too well and wants to protect you from him. Going far away from him is best because he is never going to give you the love and acceptance that we all want from our parents. He doesn’t have it to give and it’s not your fault at all. It’s him and the kind of person he is. It horrible, I know. Just take care of YOU first and foremost and never mind what he thinks.


BibleAnnie – This statement is EXACTLY what he would do: He announced ahead of time and the act itself was so devoid of any emotions, just all about how great he was and he never, ever liked laying in bed after the act to cuddle, always he would jump up, get dressed and push me to get up with him. Having sex with him averaged maybe 2 times a month in the very beginning, now it’s down to every six months.

It was something preplanned. And he would jump up out of bed, get dressed, rip the sheets off the bed and stand there like “its over” kind of feeling. They think the act in itself is perverse, because they are, there is NO EMOTIONAL FEELING associated with this act for them. That is what shocks us most.

I think they go to school to learn this… It is another way of making you feel bad about yourself. They treat you like “trash” so you can start to feel bad about yourself. GET OUT!



So that means I have to quit my job and just go over there for the rest of the summer? I guess that’s what’s best because my mom will provide everything I need. Not just financially but also emotionally.


EVERYONE – Song that always reminds me of the sociopathic relationship – ONLY TIME WILL TELL from ASIA… Listen to it. Awesome!


I hear you and today it just so happens I talked it all over with my brother who by the way believes me. My brother told me to inform the rest of my family and that I need not worry about what they think, judgment or anything else.

Incredible that the “act” of sex is identical to your experience. You nailed it though, until now I never understood how because they are perverse that the before act and right after whether it be foreplay or after-play just is something that repulses them. I would be amazed if they weren’t the same man.

I have my mother here with me, she has dementia and this is my full time job. The spath was all for it and I realize now it’s meant “cha-ching”. He’s soooo greedy, everything is for him, golfing (this is his latest obsession) and his parents are all about social standing, name dropping, status and greed.
He wants to be just like his dad who I could not stand from first meeting him. Of course he had to show me off to his folks by convincing me to sell everything here, leave my house, and sign the lease for an apt. for us because his credit was shot. I guess his parents thought it would be good to marry me so that they wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore. He’s 48 years old. I truly believe everyone who really knows him is afraid of him.



You have one life to live, your own. Judging by anyone is not only unfair, but ignorant. However, you must definitely consider leaving. Leaving is the only way you will be free of this severe dysfunctionality.

Yes they are men to be feared and when you do decide to leave I suggest you have the police outside. Place restraining orders or whatever legal measures are necessary to keep yourself safe.

Sex is something that when LOVE is present, something they know nothing about, is of course a wonderful experience. You can have it anyway you want it but it has some EMOTION attached to it. For them it is all about them. Simply disgusting. They are broken people. Withholding is their favorite!


I understand, I know I need to protect myself in all of this. I keep thinking that with my sweet, innocent mother here he would never do anything to hurt us. Then I remember how he stole his parents identity and forged their name to get a boat, truck, a house, loans and so on which by the way he has never paid back a penny. He acts entitled to anything and everyone he wants.

I will say this Kay777, God is protecting me and I love this verse as I study God’s word daily. No weapon fashioned against me shall prosper. I am trusting that God will provide a way. Sound naive? Maybe, but God is bigger than anyone and I am believing that promise. Thank you for praying for this situation.


bibleannie, the Bible also states those that follow Satan are locust … devouring and destroying everything in their path.



Bible Annie – He takes no prisoners. If was able to defraud his family, you are not out of the range of possibility here. He is omnipotent, or so he thinks.

God will do his part, but you must do yours. When one door closes, he opens a window, but it takes you to get out. He gives us the power of free will and to do with that what we should to better ourselves.

Ox Drover

Dear Bible Annie, “God helps those who help THEMSELVES” as well, so we have to DO OUR PART! If you see a snake on the path go around it, don’t just step on it and say “well, if it bites me, God will heal me” God gave us some GOOD SENSE so we need to use it! Get away from this man! He will not respect your innocent and demented mother, and if her state of mind is confused, hej could kill you in front of her and she couldn’t even be a legal witness. (((Hugs))))

How do YOU think he will get out of the marriage “Without a divorce?” Ain’t but one way I can think of.


Sometimes, we have to make some pretty major changes in order to take care of ourselves and if you can go towards your mom, who would be there for you financially AND emotionally, then honey, I would say go for it! I’ve moved clear across the country to get away from the source of the hurt, pain and chaos that I felt with my ex. It takes what it takes and honestly, it wasn’t my CHOICE to make that move, but it was the best thing I ever did. It’s HARD to make these choices. Heaven knows I struggled with some that I made, but any time you make a move that takes you away from one of these disordered people, you’re making the right move. And it thorougly ticked me off that I had to spend MORE money to get away from him. Good grief, hadn’t I spent enough already on this #$%%! But, you do what’s best for you…and the pay off for moving has been great and ended up being well worth the money it took.



I second what Oxie say’s – GET AWAY from the spath. Fortunately, my h-spath left me (last September), being able to work on me, getting my head back on straight (still working on the process). I too am concerned about your safety, especially since he wants to end the marriage without a divorce. Once you’re free of him (and his twisted ways), you will be like a bird, able to fly.

Ox Drover

Dear Hurtnomore,

I know you might like to get your dad to change the way he treats you, but you might as well wish for the sun to turn green. The BIG lesson we must learn in life i s WE CANNOT CONTROL OTHERS. We can ONLY control how we REACT.

If your mother (and I know she is in another country) can and will help you get an education, then that may be your best choice.

Obviously your father is not willing to pay for your cell phone, and/or your college, and has rules and regulations for you that you do not think are fair. However, as a parent, I can say that my sons did not always think I was “fair” to them either.

After they turned 18, they were required to get a job and to give me 1/3 of what their take home check was for household expenses, they were also required to save 1/3 of their check as long as they lived at my house, and 1/3 was used to pay THEIR expenses which included college expenses. I did NOT pay for any college, they worked, got scholarships, but I did let them drive one of the family cars, though, and they lived at home so did not have to pay for dorm rooms etc.

I COULD have paid for their college, but I believe that earning your way in life is good experience and that people appreciate more (generally) what they work for than what is given to them.

Being responsible for ourselves is part of being an adult, and frankly, when you are out of high school, and want to make your own decisions then you should pay for those things yourself. I do not believe parents are RESPONSIBLE for every convenience of life for an ADULT child. Anything they do is a GIFT to that child, not an obligation.

If your mother WANTS to help you with college and can and will, that is a GIFT to you, and if your father either cannot or will not give you such a GIFT, then that is within his right. Also as long as you are living in HIS house, I think then you should abide by HIS rules or move somewhere else–either in with your mother, or get your own apartment and then YOU can make the rules. You are NO LONGER forced to associate with your father or to live with him if you don’t like his rules,, or you think he treats you poorly.

Good luck!

Ox Drover

Bible Annie,

I am rereading Gavin DeBecker’s book “The gift of fear” and one of the themes in the book is about women who are murdered by their husbands—-in EVERY case there were MARKERS that pointed to the husband’s intent, and these MARKERS were observed but NOT given importance that they deserved.

Your recording of him telling his friend he wanted out of the marriage without a divorce or losing anything is a MARKER that he may intend to kill you. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?

Get that book, the “Gift of Fear” it is what tells us to keep ourselves SAFE, but being around them NUMBS our feelings of fear and we see the threats but we triavilize them or normalize them. Don’t use ANY excuse to stay with him one more day. GET OUT!

Frank Lee Speaking

Breaking it off for good is very difficult. They love to leave “open-ends” to their phone calls, texts and actions. They want to know that they are still in control by leaving that window open. Lock it; board it up!


Spot on. “it would break my heart if I never knew how your life turned out” – that’s the line I got.

I do wonder how sociopaths feel when we do shun them from our lives? I suspect they do not care and just move on. I would find it hard to believe they angry or pissed of at us.


franklee – as long as we leave the door cracked open just a tiny bit they will continue with their games. Once we permantley close that door they forget and move on, never giving us a thought.


Yes, Henry, like cockroaches, they can get through the smallest crack (LOL). Seriously though, once you figure out the person is a lying, using Spath that targeted you for what they needed at any given moment in their life, there is no 2nd chance to give. Your life is to precious to waste any more time on the likes of “them”.


Frank Lee,
How do they feel? This was my experience; When I finally told my ex that we were done, that I no longer loved him, he had a variety of reactions.
The first was denial. I still love him and that’s that. I just don’t know what I want right now. When he realized I meant it, the smear campaign started and it was pure anger and revenge. If I had truly done HALF of what he said I did, I would be doing 20 yrs. in a prison myself. It wasn’t about me, it was about losing his meal ticket, the roof over his head, anything and everything that related to HIM.
Even with a restraining order, I’ve had days where he will call me a dozen times at least and of course I go to the police with this. It’s not about me and it’s not about my son. What I’ve come to find out is that whenever he’s getting kicked out of wherever he is, he starts calling me. He still thinks that door just might still be open. It’s not.
Now, I’m hearing pretty much nothing from him and that’s just as well.

Wini and hens, yes, cockroaches..I love that! That’s exactly what they are. There are a variety of ways to get rid of cockroaches and only one good way to get rid of a spath-shut the door, lock it and throw away the key.

Bibleannie, I’ve been reading your posts. Honey, GET OUT of there! I agree with bluejay and Ox. This will never get any better. It will only get worse because THEY do get worse as time goes on. I am totally convinced of that. Sending courage and prayers-Cat


Cat, you can get rid of the real cockroaches (I’m referring to the insects here, not our EXs) by pouring sugar in their paths. Any insect that walks across the sugar, kills themselves because the sugar, if magnified, is tiny sharp edges that slices and dices the insects and they bleed to death.

Isn’t it interesting that all our EX Spaths used sugar coated lies on us?


Wini, I find that VERY interesting and rather prolific as well. I didn’t know that about sugar, but the connection between sugar killing cockroaches and sugar coated lies almost killing us is pretty profound. I have to add that I spent an hour or so this past week with an individual who knows my ex rather well. He’s an older man who knows much about life and all that’s in it. He, too, tried to help my ex. What he told me was that the ex was, and will always be, a pathological liar. Right on with that one! This man was another victim of the ex.
You know, if I had thought that sugar would have worked to get rid of my ex, I would have bought it by the truckload! 🙂
Thanks for the tip!

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