UPDATED FOR 2023. Lovefraud received an email from a reader who has a daughter with a sociopath and wants to know what she should do about the sociopath’s parents, her daughter’s paternal grandparents. She wrote:
My issue with my daughter’s paternal grandparents is that I don’t trust them with my daughter. It’s not because they are bad people, but because my sociopathic ex has victimized his parents over and over and over again and has no respect for what they say. His mother is his biggest enabler and both of his parents want him to be involved with our daughter (he has abandoned her) in the worst way. They pressure him about it nonstop. I fear that if I allow my daughter to be without me in their care (which is what they are gunning for right now) that they will invite my ex over, and I don’t trust what he will do. I’m scared he’ll take off with her (only to hurt me, not because he wants to spend time with her) or that he’ll begin to damage her emotionally. His parents won’t stop him because they don’t know how. He controls them and I truly believe they are scared of him.
Here’s the short answer: Your primary objective is to limit your daughter’s exposure to both her father and his family as much as you can. No Contact would be best.
3 scenarios involving a sociopath’s family
To look at this further, I’ll describe three scenarios involving a sociopath’s family.
- The family is also sociopathic
Sociopathy is highly genetic. Therefore, if your ex is a sociopath, it means that one of his parents is disordered, or there is disorder somewhere on the family tree.
If the parents are disordered, they, like your ex, are incapable of love. They are incapable of being genuinely concerned about your daughter’s wellbeing.
Read more: Helping children heal while co-parenting with a sociopath
So why would they want to see their granddaughter? Because, just like the sociopath, they view her as a possession. They want what they perceive belongs to them.
Therefore, they view access to your daughter as a battle that they want to win. If they have money, they may keep fighting until they win.
If your daughter were alone with them, it’s possible that the visits would be okay. Or, she might be neglected, abused or even kidnapped. And yes, I do know of sociopathic grandmothers who have kidnapped their grandchildren.
- Family members are engaged in wishful thinking
Some families aren’t disordered themselves, but know that there is something wrong with their offspring. This is certainly possible, because genetics is a crapshoot. The genes related to personality disorders can be passed on, even if a few generations have gone by without anyone actually exhibiting the traits.
The family may hope that if their son would just spend time with his daughter, it would awaken paternal feelings of love and he would become a normal man. So even if the family just wants a relationship with their grandchild, they may also want their son to have a relationship with the girl, and encourage him to come around when they have the girl.
And yes, you should be concerned about your daughter being damaged by her father. Sociopaths are not capable of love, even for their own children.
- Family members are pawns
Sociopaths routinely exploit everyone they know, including their parents and families.
In some cases, parents may not really know what the sociopaths are like — especially when the sociopath seems to have a successful career. The sociopaths may lie to their parents about their former partners. The parents believe the lies, and do what they can to help, not understanding the sociopath’s true, destructive agenda.
Some parents know the sociopaths are trouble, but they are enablers. The parents keep giving the sociopaths money, subsidizing living arrangements, even bailing them out of jail.
Parents may do this out of guilt, fear, or love — it’s really, really hard to turn your back on your child, even when you know that the child is disordered and is not going to change.
Keep the sociopath’s family out of your life
The safest thing for you to do is have No Contact with your sociopathic ex and his family. Even when the grandparents mean well, it increases the exposure of you and your daughter to the sociopathic father.
In your case, your ex has abandoned your daughter. The only reason to allow the grandparents to see her is if it is ordered by the court. Some states do have laws designed to enable grandparents to see their grandchildren. Here’s more information:
Grandparents’ rights: Everything you need to know on Forbes.com
If the grandparents really understood their son’s disorder, and really wanted what was best for your daughter, they would know that the healthiest thing for her would be for them to stay out of her life.
Learn more: Breaking through to alienated kids
Lovefraud originally posted this article on June 6, 2016
10 reasons why psychopaths get away with it
The fact that they are pushing their son to be part of your daughter’s life after he has abandoned her is troubling. If they were just interested in seeing her and being a part of her life themselves, it would be an easier issue to deal with. Since they are so enabling and apathetic to their son, you could set rules, such as supervised visits or no overnights. If just being involved in her life themselves, this would not be a problem, and if it is, I would suspect it was so that they would have better access to have their son involved as well. Before I knew about sociopaths, but knew my husband was abusive (why I left him). My sp-ex would take my 2 children for his visitations (I did not deny court-ordered visitations or even before the divorce, as he had also stepped up and was providing support before we were divorced… little did I know how that played a role in my ignorance)and he would hand them over to his mother for the weekend. I believed, because she was a mother and their grandmother that they would be in good care. My ex then began a tug of war with me to gain physical custody. Repeatedly taking me to court. 4 times in as many years. What I could not figure out, was why he wanted custody, as I KNEW he did not truly want physical custody, but I knew he wanted me. The 4th time to court, was not before a mediator as before, and the Friend of Court always ruled in my favored, but before a judge. The judge went against the FOC recommendations and gave physical custody to my ex. As they say, “Hindsight is 20/20.” What I learned was that my ex did not want the daily care of my children. He did not want to be a father in any respect, except in title. It was his mother who had PUSHED him to fight for custody. My children were always in her care. It was his mother who PUSHED him to provide the initial support and visitations. Once he met a woman to bed with, my children then became their burdens that they did not bargain for, and they abused my children out of resentment. He ended up marrying one of them… who turned out to be actually more dangerous to my children than their father. I fought for years with every penny I had to expose his, hers, and their abuses to no avail. My children are now adults. They don’t truly know me. They only know what they have been told about me. Even though I had split visitations, they were kept from me… and the courts did nothing but scold them. Both of my children have issues. Their innocence taken from them soon after they LEFT MY SIGHT. Please, do not be blinded by their motivations or feel guilty just because “they are the grandparents.” She is your daughter to protect, no matter who likes it.
I am so sorry for what you have had to go through having children with a SP.
You are so correct about family guilt. That’s what it is all about isn’t it? Once you have children, disordered people, including, yes, some grandparents, regard them as possessions. They feel as though the children must be KEPT in the family and endure the family dysfunction. They are FAMILY, after all.
Screwed up world…
It is the worst thing ever, having children with a SP/P or other disordered person. Because the disordered person is now a PARENT, well, they have parental rights. Ridiculous. Anyone can make a human, but that does not mean they should have made one, nor does it mean that they should have the right to screw that human up.
Trla, I am so sorry for all you are going through with your sp-ex. Your post has been very eye-opening for me. One thing I’ve realized with my ex’s parents is that no matter what they say, no matter what he does to them, they STILL have his back and he is number one. He’s more important to them than my daughter or I will ever be, which is understandable in some ways, but unfathomable in others considering what he’s done to them. I can’t and won’t trust them.
Many states are now turning to the 50/50 rule, where The Court pretty much awards 50/50 when it’s asked for by the father, disregarding past abuse to the mother. I wonder if the reasons for the increased numbers in murder-suicides is because judges refuse to listen to a parent’s warnings about abusive and sociopathic/psychopathic mother/father. The judge in your case sounds like he’s one of the sheep who believe that EVERY child is better off with both parents in their life. It makes me sick. I wish you luck on your road ahead and in healing the relationship between you and your children that your ex destroyed.
As a parent of a P/SP son, who is also fighting hard for his ‘possessions’ (his two children), I cannot fathom how these grandparents can ‘have his back’, after all that he has shown himself to be.
I am quite the opposite. I know who my son is and I am not in his corner. I think his children would be 100% better off without him in their lives. I will not condone nor be a parental cover for him. I am fully aware that the children are just possessions to him and he is currently fighting for the only things that he thinks he ‘owns’. He was an absentee father while he was still with my DIL, but now that she dumped him, well, now he MUST be in his children’s lives. After all, he IS their father. I cry bullshit on that. Too little too late buster. It is an ACT.
I also will not see ‘my’ grandchildren. They are not ‘mine’. They are not possessions. Because of the way that I feel about my son, and because I feel that he should NEVER have had children, I will remain out of their lives so as not to further damage or confuse them. Lord knows what he has already put them through.
The children are what matter now…all that matter. I can only hope that they get through all of this as unscathed as possible. I must stay out of it and step back. If they choose to find me when they are older, I will be there…as long as their father isn’t.
I would also like to say that NOT every child is better off with both parents in their lives. That is one of those ‘trite’ sayings that has somehow become gospel in society.
It is, in fact, a societal norm, though, and is difficult to change the mindset of.
I agree with you completely.
OMG…
This is MY family. Our son is a diagnosed SP. I do not think that he should be around his children at all, yet he is, especially now.
He and my DIL (a great girl, btw) are in the throes of a nasty split and he is now using his children as possessions and pawns, when really, he was ‘absent’ while they were all together. All of a sudden, now, he MUST be in their lives, because he IS their father and they NEED him. Of course, he is only damaging to them, but he will never admit or see it.
My husband knows that our son is disordered, yet still thinks our ‘family’ NEEDS to stay and be together. I am way out of the picture, now, since my son’s split with his ex. I know that we being in our grandchildren’s lives will only harm them, in so many ways, really. I do not want to even be around our son…so how do I reconcile that with his ex or their children?? I cannot. I also think that my son should NOT be a father at all. How can I even be party to the fact that he is? I am not a hypocrite nor a liar.
My husband has that wishful thinking. My son has him convinced that he ‘loves’ and wants to be a father to his children. All for appearances and to torture his ex and her family. If I were her, I would not want ANY of OUR family near the children. I am fine with that because I know, rationally, that is what is best for the children and also everyone involved. We cannot ‘save’ them from their SP father, our SP son.
Thank you for this post. I can’t believe it hits so close to home. As for why my son is a SP…I do not know for sure. I don’t know anyone else in the family who is, but some family members a generation back could be disordered. I don’t know enough about my husband’s family to really know for sure.
I have to say more. This post is the saddest post, for me at least.
Some people think that family is everything. The most important thing. Commercials, songs, tv shows, and movies drive that point home again and again. Family first. Nothing is more important than family.
What the hell is wrong with you if you don’t put family above all else???
Well, I do not believe that to be true.
I have to say more. This post is the saddest post, for me at least.
Some people think that family is everything. The most important thing. Commercials, songs, tv shows, and movies drive that point home again and again. Family first. Nothing is more important than family.
What the hell is wrong with you if you don’t put family above all else??? In this family oriented world?? Then there are those special ‘family’ occasions that are beaten over all of our heads to death by advertising…Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, birthdays, anniversaries…you have to participate and celebrate those…right??
Well, I do not believe that to be true. You almost have to take the emotion out and use rational thinking when you have a disordered family member. All of these so called sacred family things simply do not pertain to you. (Me is who I am talking about).
I am ONLY thinking about the good of the children by my SP son. They have more of a ‘chance’ at happiness if we do not condone our son. I do not agree that my son should even be a father…but he is. That does not mean that I have to be that parental cover that he needs. I care too much about genuineness and truth. I also care deeply for two little childrens’ wellbeing to be involved in a fallacy. It is the only way that I can live with myself…
Why does your relationship with your grandchildren have to involve your son?
You don’t have to tell him anything.
I had a neighbor whose son had never met his father (he had impregnated her when she was still in high school and he was in his twenties) but the son had a relationship with his grandparents. They paid child support and he visited them for a month every summer. They were fully aware their son was a loser but did their best to hold their end up. The grandson was in his teens and still hadn’t met his father. The father had 0% interest in his own child. So what, they were better off without him.
I assume that you are asking me?
My (our) son is totally involved in his two children’s lives at the moment because he is fighting for custody to drive his ex crazy, not because he really cares about being a good father. He lives three hours away from us, as does his ex and their children.
We have hardly seen the grandchildren in their lives anyway. They are currently 5 and 3 years of age. Almost 6 and 4, later this month.
The ONLY way that we would ever see the grandchildren would be to go there. Therefore, we would have to see our son. I will not do that. He is also only using the children. I will not be involved with that.
I will add that we would not go to see them with our ex DIL, either, as she is extremely upset about the nastiness that is happening in she and our son’s split.
Therefore, our staying away from all of them, including the grandchildren, and out of it completely.
FOLLOW YOUR GUT!!!
Your gut is answering your question! It is telling you not to trust his parents….so DON’T!!
Your number one job is to protect your daughter and your gut is telling you not to let the sociopaths parents into her life.
All too often we don’t follow our gut reactions because we want to be nice & polite. Nice & polite social normals need to be thrown out when dealing with a sociopath and his family.
Stick to your guns. Avoid their phone calls if you need too. You are correct your ex sociopath will worm his way back into your life! Keep in mind that your ex might be pulling his parents puppet strings right now to contact you so he can get back into your life.
Read the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker and google “Gavin Debecker Oprah you tube” to watch their interview which will remind you to always always follow your gut!!!
Also see the site One moms battle & their Facebook page.
That is so right Jan7.
Our ‘gut’ or intuition screams loudly at us and a lot of times we ignore it, for like you say, politeness.
Thank you for saying ‘social norms need to be thrown out when dealing’ with disordered people and/or families. If we cave into the social norm, we allow the dysfunction and harming to simply continue.
‘That’s what family does…stick together’…NOT!! That saying makes me cringe when it comes to SPs/Ps. It is no wonder there are FAMILIES of them. They should not even be allowed to reproduce! Too bad we often do not know who THEY are before they make babies. It’s a
tragedy!
I agree with all the posts. There is no middle ground with these types and you are either “in” or “out”. I really liked what Donna had to say about the genetic aspect of mating with these types. I will add to that to say that I have mated with a psychopath, my father was a psychopath and I believe some of my children display “red flags” as to whether they are psychopaths as well. It is not politically correct to speak of children in this manner. What you don’t say in your letter are the ages of your children and whether they are pulling you in any direction or the other, i.e: how do they feel about their grandparents and father? My point is, this is important information to have. For example, if your children are young and are loyal to you, I would not hesitate to cut the grandparents off asap. Who needs a bunch of enablers around that will come back to haunt you. It is paramount that you are able to free yourself of this type and as long as there are inroads, be it enabling grandparents or someone else, you will forever be caught in the web. Then divorcing the psychopath just morphs into some other type of abuse.
I agree with everything that YOU said becomingstrong.
If I were MY own DIL, I would not even want my children around our side of the family, even though my son is the disordered one, and we are aware of that, I still would not want my children put through any more confusion.
Like, for instance, why doesn’t Grandma come to visit…because she does not ‘like’ Dad? That’s just too weird…
Thank you, Donna, for the post, and to everyone for their comments. I am the one who wrote the letter.
Brandon is my ex and the sociopath I write about. I broke things off with him two months before I gave birth to our daughter. Shortly after I got pregnant his true colors started to show. I think he thought, “GOTCHA!” when we found out I was pregnant and figured I was in his clutches for good.
Brandon is actually adopted. I should have stated that to begin with. His adoptive father has repeatedly told me they don’t share genes and they don’t know anything about Brandon’s parents. He’s told me that Brandon was in therapy throughout his childhood and describes him as a sociopath/psychopath. I would assume he got that verbiage from one of Brandon’s therapists.
In regards to his parents being pawns, enablers and having wishful thinking – you couldn’t be more correct, which is exactly my problem. His parents have bailed him out of jail, hired attorneys, sent him to rehab and bought him numerous vehicles. According to his dad, Brandon owes them tens of thousands of dollars. He’s broken into their home and stolen from them several times. He has “borrowed” their car, which was never seen again. It was impounded after a traffic stop and sold at auction. I’m scared he’ll do this with my daughter – walk in, inform them that he’s taking her, and who knows if/when he’ll bring her back.
Brandon’s father knows what a screw-up his son is, but his mother is an idiot and can’t see that he is soulless and hollow. Even though Brandon’s dad knows he’s a low-life, he still says we all have to worry about what is “best” for my daughter and in their eyes it is to have both sets of grandparents and both parents involved. With the exception of Brandon, his entire family is VERY religious (although Brandon pretends to be religious when it suits his wants/needs/game). I believe they are embarrassed by their son and want to control the way their family unit is perceived by pushing for involvement with my daughter, rather than doing what is best for her and backing off.
His parents have come to see her for holidays and birthdays, a total of about five times in her 2-year life. You won’t catch me complaining about their lack of involvement, though. The last time they were over Brandon’s dad said they are going to want to see her more now that she’s getting older and brought up family reunion out of state. He caught me off guard and I didn’t say yes or no; I simply said, “I understand.” If they ask again I will inform them that she’s not going.
They do not care about my daughter in a real, loving way. In fact, one time when my daughter was a newborn I allowed Brandon over to see her, and his mother came along for the visit as well. Upon arrival he snatched my daughter from me and for their entire hour-long visit he followed me around the house, yelling and screaming, ransacking my belongings in an effort to find evidence of the new “boyfriend” he was convinced I was having sex with. This was just a couple weeks after I gave birth vaginally [insert eye roll here]. The entire time this was going on my daughter was crying. I begged him to stop, or hand her over to me, but he wouldn’t. All the while, his mother sat on my couch, not batting an eye, not saying a word. THAT is a prime example of why I don’t want them alone with my daughter and Brandon. I got a protective order against him to protect her from his abusive behavior. If I send her over there she’ll be subjected to it again.
I thank you again for your post and for the entire Lovefraud site. Lovefraud has helped me through quite a bit and is so informative on a topic that no one seems to talk about, or have any knowledge of. I hate that we have all gone through the things we have, but I’m grateful that in this little space we can come together for support.
I will do my best to keep Brandon’s family out of my daughter’s life. I just live in constant fear that they’ll come after me through family courts and get the time they want anyway.
Anonymous1,
Your post is very terrifying to read! Your ex is extremely dangerous. PLEASE PLEASE follow your gut and dont get talked into something by your ex’s parents.
Here is a break down of what you wrote:
you state:
“He’s broken into their home and stolen from them several times. He has “borrowed” their car, which was never seen again. It was impounded after a traffic stop and sold at auction. I’m scared he’ll do this with my daughter ”“ walk in, inform them that he’s taking her, and who knows if/when he’ll bring her back.”
You ex has extremely impulsiveness & he does not care about the law or the authorities!
Your gut is SCREAMING to you that you are “scared he’ll do this with my daughter”….BELIEVE OUR GUT ALARM!!! That gut alarm is warning you of danger!! Listen to it.
Sociopaths are master manipulators. And they can easily con people into believe they are being wronged by using Pity Play manipulation (google this) clearly he has been using this manipulation with his own (adopted) parents. They continue to believe his words and not see his horrible actions.
You state: “Brandon’s father knows what a screw-up his son is, but his mother is an idiot and can’t see that he is soulless and hollow.”
The mother is just under the brain wishing of her son. Sociopaths are masterful at LITERALLY brain washing & mind controlling people. Sociopaths are the cult leaders of the world. And like any cult follower they (his parents) need their mind opened up to the truth. Until she sees the truth she will do anything her son has to say. He is a cult leader & she is a cult follower.
AND the Father still gives him money & bails him out so he is still under your ex mind control.
You state:
“…They do not care about my daughter in a real, loving way. In fact, one time when my daughter was a newborn I allowed Brandon over to see her, and his mother came along for the visit as well. Upon arrival he snatched my daughter from me and for their entire hour-long visit he followed me around the house, yelling and screaming, ransacking my belongings in an effort to find evidence …………All the while, his mother sat on my couch, not batting an eye, not saying a word.
THAT is a prime example of why I don’t want them alone with my daughter and Brandon. I got a protective order against him to protect her from his abusive behavior. If I send her over there she’ll be subjected to it again.”
For these reasons you can not trust them even though they may be law abiding citizens they cant be trusted with your daughter ALONE. I would highly recommend that you NEVER let them take our daughter away from your home EVER. Why? because they are not capable of protecting your daughter from your ex.
Since his parents are NOT his blood relatives technically these parents are not your daughters grand parents. Have you thought of that??? read that statement again.
Obviously since they are his adopted parents there is a social norm for them to feel that your daughter is their granddaughter. I believe you may have no legal obligation to even have to let them see your daughter. (check with a lawyer).
Is your ex paying you child support? And do you have full custody in court papers?
If you have full custody. you may want to close the door on your ex & his parents to find complete peace & calmness for both you and your daughter. If you can follow the NO CONTACT RULE follow it…its the only way to truly rebuild your life & like I stated find peace & calmness.
Ask this question to yourself:
Do you really want his adopted parents in my daughters life?
( it’s a questions you will have to dig deep. The most important thing is to stay safe & for your daughter to be safe you dont want your ex going crazy so if you decide not to continue a relationship with your ex parents you will need to make sure your ex does not get set off and harm you or your daughter. Obviously you would not tell your ex’s parents you are cutting them out you just slowly over time choose to say no to their get togethers).
I would highly recommend that you read every thing up at the top of Lovefruad, watch the videos up at the top too, read Donna’s book. Donna also has a new course program that you want watch at home for a small fee but it would be well wroth it for you to open up your mind some more into your ex behavior.
How long ago did you break up with your ex & do you stay in contact with him and if so how frequently do you talk with him on the phone?
Thank you for posting more info. I just want you to know you are very brave for posting your story here at lovefraud and you should be so proud of yourself for reaching out for help.
Take care.
Jan7, thank you so much for your thoughtful response.
I just watched the Oprah video. It gave me chills.
I’ve been saying yes to his parents to be polite, and also because I fear they’ll haul me to court if I tell them no. I know they won’t get custody, but I’ve read about situations where grandparents get a significant amount of visitation time through the courts; more than I’d ever offer or allow. The idea of that makes me sick. Everyone’s input here has helped me feel strong in my belief that she should never be alone with his parents so I will not allow that. I doubt myself sometimes, so having input from people who truly understand my situation is very reaffirming.
He does not pay child support, and I don’t need it or want it. In regards to custody, there is no paperwork yet, which is another reason I don’t want her in anyone else’s care besides mine and MY immediate family. I read a blog post on this site, giving advice on how to gain custody when dealing with a sociopath. It advised holding something over your sociopath’s head in order to get them to sign over custody to you. I have two things to hold over his head and I’m trying to get the courage to call him, meet up with him, and give him his options – either you sign over your rights or this happens. Even typing it out right now makes my stomach turn. I don’t want to speak to him or see him. I’m terrified of him and relaying these “options” to him will enrage him. I got a protective order against him a year-and-a-half ago, which has since expired, but I don’t think he realizes that. We’ve seen each other once since then with my parents as mediators to work out a visitation schedule. He had supervised visits with my parents once a week. He showed up 11 times, and was late almost every single time. When he realized his charms weren’t working on my parents and when they told him he’d never see me again, he quit showing up for his visits.
I can’t ignore the situation. Everyone here is right – his parents are his way to get to me and to continue to control me. One of the three of them will continue to haunt me and my daughter for the rest of our lives for as long as I allow it. I need to get custody paperwork in order and cut them out.
Is his name on the birth certificate? If not, he would have to have a paternity test to assert parental rights.
This is a link to a website that lists what rights grandparents have in each state. That way you will know what you are up against in keeping them out of your life.
http://www.grandparents.com/family-and-relationships/grandparents-rights/grandparent-rights-united-states
You could also consider moving and changing your phone number so they can’t find you.
Dear anonymous,
Grandparents in most states do not have standing to effect custody. In the state I live in traditionally they can gain standing of the child have lived with them for the last 6 months. Don’t put yourself in the position where the child ends up over there because that mother/grandmother will hire a lawyer to move for custody and even if they don’t win, the expense of the battle could break you. Also don’t tell them that you don’t intend to let them visit or go to the reunions. Keep their hopes up in a vague way and thereby keep them at bay. The minute you take a hard and fast line and let them know where you are coming from they will be in a better position to act against you. They are in fact more dangerous than he is. They do his bidding and have the mantel of respectability which he does not. Your daughter doesn’t know them and you should keep it that way. Don’t talk about them to her. And remove all pictures and references of them. Your job is to only expose her to good people. Why confused things? You decide what family is not blood or the law.
Clarification you want to expose your daughter who not only good people but people who will protect you.
Becomingstrong, thank you so much for this. Everything in this post is dead on. And you answered the question I have been asking myself today – do I abruptly cut them out entirely, or do it slowly by beating around the bush and/or avoiding them? I think the latter makes more sense because if I tell them outright they’ll have more reason to act against me, like you say.
Regarding sociopaths locking their victims in with a child – I have no doubt those were his thoughts. I am so sorry that you have found yourself in the same position. I found with my ex, after we announced the pregnancy to everyone, he realized he didn’t have to keep up the act anymore. He got lazy in his lies and in covering them up, his true colors came out and I realized what a mess I’d gotten myself into. I got the most amazing child out of that mess, but I feel great sorrow for her, as one day she’s going to be affected in some way by the “father” that she’s been assigned for life.
Another part of your story that I can completely relate to and that I think merits broad discussion is the spath use of pregnancy and children to entrap its prey. When I filed for divorce the first time and we had been in the courts for a while I made the mistake of letting my guard down and not only got pregnant but unheard of in my family and in his conceived twins. As I was in my ’40’s I was concerned about Down syndrome. I fretted about it. He was the most supportive encouraging partner. Poopooing my worries. It wasn’t until years later when I was trapped in my cage with all these children did I realize what had happened. He didn’t want the children he wanted me to be weighed down some more. And it worked for a long time.
anonymous1 – you may want to hold off on initiating a court battle to get him to terminate his parental rights. Sociopaths love to go to court, and he’ll get mommy and daddy to pay for it. Plus you’ll be throwing down the gauntlet, which will fuel his desire to fight.
Maybe see if you can just get them to “go away.” Court should be a last resort.