By | November 27, 2007 305 Comments

Is there any constructive, legal action to take against sociopaths?

Lovefraud recently received the following e-mail from a reader:

My psychologist referred me to this web site. It’s terrific save one section: How can running away from these people be the only solution? Granted, it’s a stop-gap solution to protect yourself from future abuses; however, it’s not a solution for full/final resolution.

Allowing [them] to perpetuate their endeavors and perpetrate them on others only permits proliferation. Please tell me that there is some constructive, legal way to be proactive and preventative in a more communal fashion. I have visions of: 20 years from now they rule the world. It won’t be survival of the fittest. It will have become survival of the sickest.

To have to swallow this reality would be a further devastating blow to my slowly recovering resiliency.

There simply must be constructive ways to deal with these [people].

We all know this reader’s frustration. It seems like sociopaths are able to lie, cheat, steal, abuse, damage and injure with impunity. How can this be? Isn’t there anything we can do?

Running away

Let’s first address the issue of running away. This is the best thing to do if you are observant enough to see the signs of sociopathic behavior before you become entangled. If you know what to look for and see the red flags, or if your instincts tell you that someone is trouble, get out. You should not knowingly allow a sociopath into your life if it can be at all avoided.

Many of our readers, however, are already caught in the sociopath’s web of deceit. You have fallen in love, married the sociopath, had children with him or her, or given the person money. Or, the sociopath is a family member. Somehow, the predator already has a piece of you.

You may have been emotionally, physically or financially abused for a long time. You’ve been criticized, denigrated and told that you have mental problems. You’ve lost your confidence and your sense of self. You wonder if you are, in fact, going crazy.

At this point, you must break away from the sociopath to begin restoring your mental health. You must take yourself out of the sociopath’s game. Any time you see, talk to or exchange e-mail with a sociopath, you are opening yourself to further manipulation. He or she knows exactly how to pull you in again, and will do it.

You may call it running away; Lovefraud calls it No Contact. It’s the best way to begin healing.

Criminal prosecution

But how can you take action against the sociopath? How can the sociopath be held accountable? How can he or she be prevented from devastating someone else?

Unfortunately, it is not illegal to be a sociopath. Therefore, action can only be taken based on what a sociopath does, and many typical sociopathic behaviors are legal.

  • It is legal to cheat on a spouse or intimate partner.
  • It is legal to lie, except under oath and on some official documents (which never stopped a sociopath).
  • It is legal for a sociopath to talk someone into giving him or her money.

Many sociopaths know exactly where the legal lines are, and manage to stay in the gray area without crossing over them. Their actions are unethical, but not illegal.

Criminal prosecution only becomes possible when a sociopath violates the law—which many of them do. Prisons are full of sociopaths.

So prosecution is possible when a law is violated, but whether it actually happens depends on the seriousness of the crime. Most murder cases get investigated. Most fraud cases don’t, especially if it’s a sweetheart scam.

Lovefraud usually recommends reporting a sociopath’s crime, even if it is not likely to be investigated. If a sociopath is doing something illegal to you, he or she is probably also doing it to someone else. Maybe if a pattern develops, authorities will take action.

Civil lawsuits

The other option is civil court—suing the sociopath. Unfortunately this will cost you money that you may not have if the sociopath has wiped you out. Then, even if you file a lawsuit, win your case and get a judgment, it may be difficult or impossible to actually get your money. Sociopaths are notorious for blowing through money; there may be nothing left for you to collect.

The whole process of taking a sociopath to court will financially and emotionally drain you. The sociopath, however, looks at a court battle as a game—a game that he or she is determined to win. And they’re good at the game. They bend the rules to suit their purposes. They put on a great show for the judge, even as they perjure themselves. They find attorneys who are equally cold-hearted, or who are so dazzled that they believe the sociopath’s lies.

Many judges, in the meantime, are as ignorant about sociopaths as you were. They hear the sociopath say, “I’m only concerned about the welfare of our children,” or, “I never meant any harm,” and believe the hollow words.

Exposing the sociopath

If you can’t take legal action, you may want to at least expose the sociopath to save someone else from being victimized. You may post the sociopath on Don’t Date Him Girl or other websites that name cheaters. You may get away with it. Or, if the sociopath you expose has resources and likes the lawsuit game (see above), you may find yourself in court, accused of libel or invasion of privacy.

Here’s another complication: There are no legal guidelines for when or how it is permissible to say someone is a sociopath. Media lawyers frequently do not allow the publications or TV shows they represent to call someone a sociopath. This may be the case even if the person making the statement is an expert. When his show about Ed Hicks was taped, Dr. Phil referred to Hicks as a sociopath. Dr. Phil certainly knows a sociopath when he sees one, but the show’s lawyers cut the term “sociopath” from the broadcast.

For this reason, Lovefraud is extremely careful with naming names. According to our terms of service, readers may not post the names of the sociopaths they have experienced in comments to this blog. And when Lovefraud does a case study in which we do identify a con artist, every single statement made about the subject of the story is documented with evidence.

Lovefraud does believe, however, that exposing sociopaths is the only thing that really works. In the future, we hope to offer a Con Artist Database to help our readers. But this is a project with many technical and legal challenges (see above). We look forward to the day when we can tackle them.

What should you do?

So what’s the bottom line? If you’ve been victimized by a sociopath, what should you do?

First, take care of yourself. Extricate yourself from the predator’s grip. That’s what No Contact is all about—escape and recovery.

Then you have to evaluate your situation to determine if further action is possible and worth the trouble. Every case is different. What did the sociopath do? Was it illegal? Do you have evidence or documentation? Do you have the money to pursue action? Do you have the emotional stamina?

If you have a good case, and the resources, by all means take action. Or, if you can’t do it now, maybe you can do it later, after you are healed.

As the saying goes, “revenge is a dish best served cold.” It took me five years, but I finally exposed my ex-husband, James Montgomery. He was fired from his job and forced into bankruptcy.

I will admit—it was satisfying.

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I think about this all the time. What can I do to stop him? And if I had called the police, what would I say he was doing? I would have just sounded like a hysterical woman with bad boundaries… Hey! That is exactly what I was!!

I wish there was some kind of laws against what these guys do but the more I think about it, the more impossible I see that it would be to define.

Great article. Thank you.

If their an online predator – you can write us and we’ll be happy to send you our guidelines and post them on our site. We also have a full list of legal sites to post them at on the right margin of our main site.

We don’t believe in revenge but telling is a huge step in healing. The police have routinely blown off our victims. One of them helped close down a $2million a year brothel but then the police refused to do anything about charging her predator with soliciting – so of course he’s online smearing her because he figures he got away with it.

Predators will do all sorts of smear & damage control. One of our predators took the victim who exposed him to court, knowing she had no money to fight him, for ‘ruining his reputation.’ He went so far as to get her ex-husband thrown in jail for this too. The police didn’t want to listen to her. Like alohatraveler – they treated her like she was hysterical.

We are currently working with one victim where the police know there are laws in place but want HER to do all the legwork. She’s got severe PTSD – so how’s that supposed to happen? Meantime, her sociopath fled that country!

With the latest news on the Megan Meier MySpace Suicide – we believe a LOT MORE needs to be done about online predators who prey on other adults. This would help sociopath victims if the law made it simpler to file for INTENTIONAL INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS and more lawyers would take this on pro-bono.

If cyberpaths’ & sociopaths’ victims knew there was more liability involved for their abusers it would go a long way. Sadly, far too many law enforcement agencies want to look the other way. Police already have bad track records for dealing with domestic violence.

We would just say call or write the police anyway. Demand they make a file. Demand names & badge numbers. Send letters to some civil lawyers in your area calmly & briefly explaining your situation. And most of all – go to a DV Crisis Center and get yourself counseling ASAP.

But yes, expose them. The more of them that are exposed- the more that ‘scorned woman’ cry of theirs gets very tired.


I have always wished there was some way to get the law involved just to prove that I’d been had. If someone has never been done in by a sociopath, they have no idea what it’s like to be with someone and know that you never touch. To have them go through the motions of a human being, but not feel. To them they are in touch with reality, but I’m the one who is out there. I used to buy into that. I’ve learned that you don’t always have to have the experience to have the knowledge. I often thought I was the inept one, because the ones in my life lived longer and had more life experiences, or so I thought. They were just doing life happenings, but they apparently didn’t feel anything.

I’ve noticed that so many of them do things according to their age or the calendar. I’ve been dealing with a male friendship, that is strictly platonic, who keeps insisting we are friends, but refuses to see how one sided it all is. It’s me doing the initiating and he is accepting of the time together, as long as it’s according to his time table and schedule. I’m not one of his priorities, but he wants to be one of mine. It’s the most frustrating thing, trying to prove a point. I’m learning to just back away and I’m reaching a point where I don’t care anymore. If I see him, fine. If I don’t, equally so. I’ve tried to get him to see that I want mutuality, but he refuses to budge. I say fine. You do your thing and I’ll do mine and we’ll just be friends in name only.

I don’t know how anyone else feels, but to me so many of these men, know how to treat other men like real friends, but they don’t have a clue as to how to relate to a woman. They just don’t get it. To them, it’s all about having sex, getting her to pay for his time and wait on him. They don’t know how to do the holidays. They let someone else do it all and they just show up. It’s hard to explain to someone who has never had to deal with this kind of personality. A man who doesn’t know how to provide and just be a real man. I’m finding it’s safer and saner to be alone.


I’ve finally realised that I’ve made myself an ideal partner for a sociopath (been out with two or three of em) and I don’t tend to find another one. So I need to remain single for a while so I don’t do anything daft again.

I’ve decided to cut my losses and write a novel based on this though – it seems such a mad thing, such a universal thing for us to give others the benefit of the doubt, to think ‘there is good and bad in everyone.’ But there isn’t!

I’m interested in the ethical problems raised. I mean…OK, these people AREN’T insane, cos they know the difference between right and wrong. BUT if they don’t know the pain of being betrayed, or the pain of anything (or, that matter, the joy of anything) then how can we expect them to relate to that pain, and to NOT take advantage of us? They don’t feel real happiness, so…I’m not saying we should feel sorry for them but…if we’re going to say they’re ‘not human’…we shouldn’t hate them should we? What’s an appropriate strategy? What do we expect them to do with their lives apart from stay away?!

Btw, has anyone read anything like ‘The Psychopath’s Bible’ by CS Hyatt? I read it for research – dull or what? It promised to be shocking on every page but never delivered. ‘The banality of evil’ indeed!

I’m also interested in the M Scott Peck view about the value of conscience. Why would we prefer to have conscience? I’ve been a victim of sociopaths, but I’d never want to swap with them. Why is that? Some of them would argue they’re more evolved than the rest of us. Are they more compatible with free market economics?

Oh I don’t know…I’ve been so affected by sociopaths for years, but via this site and Hare and Stout et al I feel like I can suddenly make sense of it all. And my head is spinning!

Thanks to you all though…all I know is that at my many low points the past couple of years all of the accounts in here have helped me SO much. Thank you.


I read an article in the last couple of years about the fact that the brain
can inherit tendencies from the parent’s addiction to drugs, alcohol, etc.
and that some juvenile delinquents’ behavior (created without conscience) could be traced to that part of their brain being underdeveloped or just not there. And the researcher was saying that that is why so many gang-related crimes were done – seemingly without conscience on the part of the perpetrators.

And then there’s cellular memory – I just heard of a writer who wrote
a scene in her novel that only later did she find out was something incredibly similar to something that had really happened in her own mother’s life (and she had never been told of it.)

For whatever reasons, we are all unique right down to our brains and cellular makeup – and the sociopaths are victims of their own unique
physical and spiritual blueprints. Right now I know I am trying to retrain my own ways of thinking – lately it’s been way too negative and it’s quite
an effort to overcome. But whatever happens, I do agree with the viewpoint that any relationships like this are something to use as a springboard for something more substantial and truly loving. Right now
I wish I had some of that money I’ve laid out over time for the wrong
reasons in unhealthy relationships. Yet it’s probably better to just say
inside, there but for the grace of God…and just move on!

I drove by the carwash here the other day around Thanksgiving, and the
small marquee there said “Give thanks for what you escape!” Seemed so unlike what they usually post, almost felt like it was a personal little
message from God and to not despair.


I guess what I’m working on and trying to understand is this – the therapist has said that because of my own family history – and especially with men (unavailable real father, probably sociopathic stepfather) I’ve
felt like an outsider, even within my own family and even with many healthy, good friends . So it’s been natural he says that I’ve been drawn to men who are ‘outsiders’ or have been ‘marginalised’ in their own lives
growing up. And I’ve known several men now – the ones I’ve been most attracted to, who had alcoholic or otherwise unavailable fathers (two both had fathers who died in car crashes at an early age). They had conflicts with stepfathers and continue to have problems with male figures in their lives and watched their mothers have chaotic or difficult relationships as they grew up. So we’re drawn together for many reasons – women especially want ‘to make things right’ and have the approving father they never had and/or get it right this time around where their mother (grandmother too maybe!) weren’t able to forge’
a loving relationship with a difficult man. So we pick out another ‘difficult’ man to play that part – and of course we get the same results.
And of course the fear factor is right there – we think we’re ‘available’
to the relationship and they’re not, yet speaking for myself – I know I’ve
almost known in my gut from the start that I’ve picked an unavailable
man and it allows me the ‘freedom’ of not totally committing myself, yet I couldn’t resist another chance to get that happy ending – against all odds.

The men in my life have not been total sociopaths – but they’ve done alot of damage to myself and to other women. At times, I’ve wanted revenge but more and more I realize the choices I made and HOW MANY times I made the same lousy choices to stay. All I’m saying
is that all we can do is accept that these relationships have all taken our own issues
and driven us up a wall to face them – and that is the Major Gift – we can
see them as ‘bad’ men but it’s an everyday mode of operation they’ve
gotten locked into – a way of survival. And it’s too bad men aren’t encouraged more to get help through therapy (I realize this applies to women as well but let’s face it, men don’t often seek help and probably sink to levels
of depression women don’t always understand).

I don’t write this to let them off the hook… I’m just in the aftermath and I’m sad he can’t really be there for me now – I hope he gets help for
himself so the pattern doesn’t keep repeating. All I can do is break my
own pattern and pay attention.


This website has been so helpful – I’m going to shut up though – I’ve had
enough of myself and talk about therapy – so many of you have had much worse losses – monetarily and otherwise – mine has been much more emotional. So please take these entries as someone just trying to get back on track – sorry to go on so.


After ten years in the legal system with my son’s sociopathic father and after 97 times in front of a judge I am all done. He owes me well over $30,000 in support forget all the other money he took from me over the years of being together. So low was he as to empty our checking account to pay for his fun in Boston that I did not have money for formula or diapers when his son was an infant.

I am stronger now and his son is awesome. It was long years of struggle to get to where we are at emotionally. My son is involved in the Big Brother program and I surround him with positive male role models.

I still have some anxiety over things and find it better to just push it all out of my mind. I am working diligently to get back a more stable financial environment for my son and I and that is the hardest road to stay on. The financial devastation (he and his new wife used my ssn to get cell phones and electricity and unsecured credit cards) has been pretty thorough on his part, but money doesn’t buy happiness.

With the love of my family and of his (yes my son and I are extremely close to his mom and dad and other relatives and we spend many holidays and weekends together) my son and I are doing well.

I have not excluded my son from seeing his father for one reason. His father is a great con artist and I do not want my son to fall prey to his father turning it around that I denied him a relationship with him. But I have gotten the courts to set some stringent guidelines and have sole custody so that they will be upheld.

His father has not shown up for the three months and has called him once (and slammed the phone down) in the past six weeks.

I think the hardest part for me is watching my son try to guess what he did wrong to make his father this way. I provide him as much emotional support and positive feedback as he will let me. My son works on the out of sight out of mind premise so we often don’t speak of him.

The legal system is not prepared to handle the mental state of people as a reason for incarceration or hospitalization. So with that said, don’t waste your time with the legal system if you want justice. If you have a child, then fight with all that you have and leave no stone unturned.


I don’t glory in someone else’s misery, but it sure feels good to know that I can relate to so many others who have been where I’ve been and know of which I speak. I’ve tried to describe some of that emptiness to others and they just give me that “look”. No one can know what it’s like to pour so much emotion into someone who is full of holes. We keep giving and giving and get nothing in return. Not that I give to get. I always thought love begat love. I did what came naturally to me. I truly thought the sex produced the intimacy, but I’ve found that so many can give their bodies freely, but when it comes to real emotions, they don’t have them. I keep thinking, is it just because he is a man and he thinks differently. But I’ve found, talking to other men, that they don’t all think alike. I’ve met some men who will talk freely of their personal lives, and they describe what I’ve been through with the women in their lives.

As long as these people don’t do bodily harm, no one wants to hear anything. The scars I bear are inside. If any one could see my heart, they would see scars of disappointment and disillusionment, along with many others. To commit ones heart to another person, who has their heart blocked, makes for a rather lonely marriage, friendship, or any other relationship. It seems the one who feels the most, hurts the most. One of the hardest parts of dealing with this, is the frustration from trying to be understood, let alone trying to understand them. When I embarked on the sea of life, I thought people were people. They were, in my case, for the 1 1/2 years my husband and I went together. After we got married, he and his family changed so drastically, that I thought for a long time it was me. I kept trying to change me to suit them, but something still held me back.

I could never understand the need for attention. I don’t seek attention, because all I’ve ever wanted to do was live life. Took me a long time to realize there was something so wrong with the way we were living. In fact it took an outsider to explain to me that I was being abused. That’s how broken I was. I was blamed so I bought into it. No more. If I can’t have truth, then I don’t want anything. Sometimes I find myself blaming me for the hurt my youngest daughter endured, but I tried to shield her, but it got to the place where I couldn’t anymore. We are all free now, but the lingering effect is what keeps rearing it’s ugly head. In fact, because I’ve chosen to remove myself, my one sister no longer speaks with me, because she said she never saw that side of my husband, so in her mind it didn’t happen and it’s all my fault. She said I was selfish and self centered, because I wanted out. If she would have put up with just a tenth of what I took, her husband would have been mince meat. In fact she has treated her husband in a lot of the ways my husband treated me. So I say it’s her problem too.

My only regret is that I didn’t know what to look for years ago. I could have saved my children and I a lot of grief. Especially my daughters. Everyone wants to be daddy’s little girl, and they were for a time, but he just quit. What a sad commentary for a life lived. Again I say, I’m glad to have found this site. Misery really does love company!! But I guess the only way to stop them, is to just get away from them. I will always miss the man I met, but he was a facade. The real man was scary. I think the only real emotion he has felt is anger. Although he seems to empathize with and understand others. Just not me. And I say, now, who cares. And if I had to do it over again, I would grab my children and run. I kept waiting for the man I met to come back. He never existed. At least for me. A very warped way of running a marriage. I always felt like I was his mother instead of wife. I now know the difference. I’ve become so skeptical, that I doubt if any man will ever be able to break through. My only defense.

Where do I begin? All of you have had such heartwrenching stories. I’m so glad Lovefraud is here to educate people about sociopaths. I’m in agreeance with Kmrobinson. The legal system is unprepared. So am I. I am currently involved in the legal system pursuing guardianship of my mom’s estate. Her swindler boyfriend has done such a wonderful conjob on her that she will no longer speak with me. I’ve gone to the police, State’s Attorney, Women’s abuse shelter, Elder Abuse agency and her doctor. I’ve written a letter to the editor, our congressmen, and God knows I’ve been praying. As of right now, everything is a mess. Mom has had a mental health evaluation. She got a glowing letter of competency because she was assessed only for dementia, which has never been the issue. Even the psychologist seems to get it all wrong. She never consulted with my brother or me, nor did she look at all the evidence I have against mom’s boyfriend. To make matter’s worse, the new psychiatrist assigned to do an assessment on my mom’s mental status won’t do it. He’s had prior dealings with my mom’s attorney and hates her, therefore wants no part of it. I’m getting further and further into the hole monetarily, and at my wit’s end. If I had to do it over again, I’m not sure I would have pursued it legally. Mom’s attorney has slandered my name to the Guardian ad litem. I plan to write a letter to the office of professional regulation regarding this. If things go like everything else has, it may just be a waste of my time. Everyone keeps telling me to let it go, protect myself. It’s too far gone to turn back. All I want is for my mom to be protected. Unless you have gone through it (being abused or watching a loved one be abused by a psychopath) you cannot possibly understand what a psychopath is capable of. The elder abuse agency in my area is a joke. I scheduled a meeting with the CEO of the agency, the supervisor, my brother, and myself. The supervisor sat right in front of me and lied about what she had said to me. I’m a nurse and have documented everything. I called her on it, but she continued to lie. How does one get help when even the agencies are inept? I plan to write a letter to the Agency on Aging at the State level. Even then, I’m not sure it will help. I just found a web site on Undue Influence, by Bennett Blum. I downloaded some tools that I hope will be helpful in proving the abuse. This comment started out being about how the legal system is unprepared. I hope I haven’t strayed too far. The bottom line is guard and protect yourself. Any legal recourse is too costly in terms of your time, money, and mental well being. Good luck and God’s Blessings.

Peachpapoose, who were you directing your questions to? It appeared you already had an answer within your own blog. If you were questioning me, I have documentation of financial exploitation to my mother. My mother was angry with her boyfriend after my sister died this summer. He never came to the visitation, funeral, and basically wasn’t there for her. She gave me documentation in the form of cancelled checks, signed, notorized loan agreements that he never paid her for, and other documentation. Then, she also told me he sexually abused her. He had anal sex with her which was consensual, but then vaginal sex immediately afterwards which was not consenual. My mother became horribly sick. We found out later that she had a bladder infection caused by the E.Coli virus. It was very touch and go for a while, because this infection took it’s toll on mom with her already having atrial fibrillation, COPD, hypertension, congestive heart failure, etc. When I notified the Elder Abuse Agency within my town, the supervisor told me “that is not how one acquires an E.Coli infection. It’s intestinal”. As a RN, I explained how it could cause an E.Coli infection. The supervisor then said my mom would never admit to it. I told her I didn’t care, this is what my mom told me and I wanted it documented. The supervisor then kept telling me over and over that I would not have access to the documentation, even though I never requested it. I have been documenting everything that has been going on; Everyone I have spoken to and what they have said. So far, no agency will help. I’ve written a letter to the editor for our local newspaper. Only one person called me to comment on it. I have tried writing Oprah and Dr. Phil. I keep thinking that if the right person hears this, they may be able to intervene and help us. Right now, it feels as if it is falling upon deaf ears.


This is my first post. I just erased what I had written so far. I couldn’t stand seeing it in print. I feel so stupid. 18 yrs of lies and manipulations. I was left with nothing. If it wasn’t for my family, my son and I would be homeless.

I just want to comment on law enforcement. My almost x is a deputy and so is his girlfriend. Most of his department is made up of people like them. So when you’re dealing with police and you think they don’t get it – they probably get it all to well.


hope this link helps you:


thanks fighter


yes there are things you can do. report the incident to the police. they will do nothing if you are married and going through a divorce as they feel it is a “he said she said” if he was stealing, and will refer you to civil court. go to civil court and win the judgement. once you win, you can go to this website to report fraud:

then you can register him/her with various consumer agencies. the important thing is to document it.

you can also file a complaint with the District Attorney’s office. it always remains on file even though no action will be taken. all of these steps make it easier for the next victim to have credibility. if we all take the time to document, then eventually a pattern will be elicited and action will be taken. and if you do nothing then you are still his/her victim and are not empowering yourself and hence not moving forward.

if you are lucky and he/she was stealing from a business that you alone own, you have a case for criminal. but be very prepared with all documentation and give them heads up as to what to expect from him/her to make this into you being a vindictive, hysterical person. try and prepare them mentally what to expect. provide as much supporting evidence as you can and phone numbers for them to contact. the more prepared you are, the more likely success you will have.

They are so manipulative when it comes to the law though. The one who scammed me, waited enough time before I found out what he’d done, and then said “You can’t do anything now about that because when it was really going on was back far enough that it’s now outside the statute of limitations.” So he KNEW all along just when to do what and how and literally did not care that he had financially wiped me out with his lies about needing money for his sick child.

It didn’t phase him as long as he didn’t get in trouble and he knew JUST where those lines were. In fact to this day, every time he knows I’ve told anyone or posted him somewhere HE will go on about how vindictive I am though he never went to jail and never had to fully pay me back at all, and somehow because I actually warned others or told, I am the bad guy. It’s shocking the “logic” they use. But it’s not that they don’t know better they certainly do.

His smear campaign has been that I am vengeful and telling “lies” about him. Using his charm he’s made more than one person believe him just as I once did.

Even if you are not able to legally do anything DO TELL because it was a huge part of me starting to get myself back. It’s the truth out there for all to see. They hate that so much because they can’t control how you think about it when you are validated by others. It’s so freeing not to be isolated with who and what they are do and are.


I wish that there was a way to warn others about these sociopaths so that they would not have to go through the anguish that we have gone through.

I gave mine thousands of dollars including a car. There is no way to recover the money. I gave it willingly. It was not a loan. There was nothing in writing.

He constantly fed me tales of financial despair: his mother lost her prescription money, his niece needed to repair the water pump on her car, etc. I admit being easily manipulated. The stories seemed true and urgent. Some of them may have been true but I can’t believe that all of them were now.

Ox Drover

Well, we are trying to do something. TH-P got mom to loan him money which he used to buy a vehicle. The title had no lien against it, and there was a loan “note” he signed, and my DIL (now X) got possession of that note and tore it up.

We have a court date June 18th in small claims court for 1) to prove he FRAUDULENTLY conned a “little old lady” into giving him the money, therefore, it isn’t just a case of a loan (and therefore a judgment we can’t collect) but FRAUD and 2) that we have a mechanic’s lien on the vehicle for storage for 10 months at $200 per month for garage=$2000.

In my state a mechanic’s lien is enforcable by either they pay or the vehicle is sold at auction and the mechanic gets his money first, then any left is to go to the owner of the vehicle.

I filed and enforced a mechanic’s lien on an airplane a man crashed here at our field and left the damaged plane in our workshop hangar. I kept tellilng him to come get it that it was in our shop hangar, the only place we had to store it, and he left it 100 days. I filed for $100 per day ($10,000) and he had to pay before he could get his damaged plane (which even damaged was worth about $100,000.)

So sometimes you can get things done in small claims court without having to hire an attorney. Rules for evidence there are more relaxed than in “regular” court too.

If you can prove FRAUD all bets are off as far as you “giving” the things—so it isn’t hopeless, just difficult.


I had to get with the reality that i wanted revenge. On him and her. Sad, but true. I wanted her to hurt also, I wanted to knowck her down a few pegs. With those kinds of thoughts I have become him. It is frustrating at best to see, feel injustice and to know it is still going on. I pray for those who come in contact..I ask God to use me if he needs me. If I am needed in helping another woman God will find a way. People warned me about the man I dated after my divorce. I wouldn’t listen to them or myself I was too sick. I believe telling my story helps. Leading a good life is sweet revenge and I benefit. And I am an example to other women. Especially my daughter. She never saw me put up with this stuff I divorced her Dad when she was two. And I never introduced the p to her. (not to say she didn’t see a change in me– after we broke up)) CALM HAPPY!!! I want to be the kind of woman who loves well…..and I started with my exsisting relations, I am a good daughter, sister, mother, friend….when the right guy comes he comes..I can’t make that part happen.


I exposed mine (see case histories, main site, ‘Used Car Salesman’) and by doing so alerted one woman who was contemplating moving in with him – and she left him. (She fit the pattern: @60, widowed, w/money) He lives in a small city and he was apparently upset that I had exposed his very tarnished reputation. I was probably the 6th or 7th in a long parade of victims.

The law is very inept in these kinds of situations and trying to recover anything from them is probably futile.

I ignored my own rules when I didn’t look into his past and pooh-poohed several red flags. My advice to someone contemplating a relationship: research their history (courthouse records, business acquaintances, etc).

I was lucky i had a prenup and great legal help and an ex girl friend that helped me get this sociopath out of my life, the one thing that saved me is she was not as smart as she thought she was, also when i stopped fearing her and got a backround check on her it all became clear, if you stop all contact it seems to work the best, they also try to reach out to your loved ones and tell them you are the problem, she was also not liked by many folks except for the man she had sex with who said he knew who and what she was but knew how to handel her, shook my head in shame of what i got involved with.

Ox Drover

Dear Taken for a ride,

Good for you! Pre-nups and not mixing funds with others is always a good plan. Even if two young people get married and neither of them has squat, it’s not a bad idea to have a pre-nup with the instructions for divisions layed out back when you both like each other. Even in an ordinary divorce, there are enough ill feelings most of the time that money and property always seems to become an issue. Pre-nups can always be updated every so often.

My late husband and I because we both had assets and children that we didn’t share, had a pre-nup and if I had needed it to protect myself from his children, or whatever it would have. As it was, I have great step kids, but you just never know what might happen. Always good to be prepared.

Glad you didn’t get taken to the cleaners. LouiseRosen is right, the law IS inept in this kind of thing. It also predisposes that there was “wrong on both sides”even when that is not so.

Dear OxDrover, if you think about all your other relationships with good folks and then look at what the Sociopath has done to you, it is evident that they have no compassion or remorse that’s what seperates them from us. I always wondered if after a while when they are older and not as pretty and have gone through so many men do they finally stop ? A good question for Donna.


I was wondering if anyone has filed a civil suit against a P or S and if they had any luck.

I am currently going through a divorce with my ex-P but unfortunately it is in a state where marital misconduct doesn’t come into the eqaution. I am planning on looking into filing a civil suit against my former N father-in-law who evicted me and my three daughters from our home under duress and coercive circumstances. He owned the home that my ex and I lived in even though at the time we got married I thought it was my ex’s. Soon after we were married my ex father-in-law started charging us rent. He used this guise to get rid of me and my daughters soon after my baby was born 4 months ago. Then, after we are out of the picture, he allows his son to move back in.

My ex and his family have been totally unaccountable and this is what gets me the most. From a lot of the laws I have been looking at it looks like I may have a case.

Ox Drover

Dear Maniatissa,

Unfortunately, I don’t think you have a legal leg to stand on (but I am NOT an attorney) I have had rental houses and if you own the property, you can pretty well do what you want with it as long as you are not discriminating against someone for racial exclusion so if he “violated” your rights, chances are it would not be a big case and you would have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to hire an attorney.

What he did is a NASTY, HATEFUL thing to do sure! And obviouisly the whole thing was set up that way to keep you from having any legal right to the house you lived in. I know of other people who have had this same nasty thing done to them to keep the son’s wife from having any legal right to any of the “son’s property” in a community property state.

That’s how they skirt the “spirit of the law” while keeping to the “letter of the law.” This trick is as old as time. When Jesus was talking to the Pharisees (men who outwardly were very “holy”) he accused them of doing more or less the same thing so that they didn’t have to support their parents! They “dedicated” things to the Temple (but actually kept them for their own use) and therefore they couldn’t let their parents have them even when the parents were in need.

That kind of thing is what the BIG FRUSTRATION is. I read the post from one of the posters from a year ago about trying to save her elderly mother from her P-BF and how frustrated she was. I can relate to that, by trying to save my mother from my P-son and his “legions” of Ps. Saving someone from a P against their will is usually impossible no matter how much damage they do.

Saving ourselves from them is usually about all we can do, and still they get away with so much MORAL CRIME, even though it isn’t “illegal” by the laws of the land. Our prisons and jails are so full now that they are releasing or refusing to take in all but the MOST VIOLENT criminals. We, on the other hand, have to “suck it up” and the P gets no or few consequences for their MORAL CRIME, even sometimes for the breaking the law crimes. ((((hugs))))



Thank you so much for your response. I haven’t consulted with an attorney on this yet but was wondering if a civil suit could be filed for emotional harm which the incident caused. Me and my daughters are suffering from PTSD because of the incident and I do think I can get enough documentation from professionals. My ex father-in-law is also worth millions so I am thinking that some lawyer might take the case on a contingency basis. This man is, unlike a lot of the other S and Ps, who has managed to hold on to his material wealth by staying below the legal radar.

Ox Drover

Dear Maniatissa,

Even though you have a reasonable case TO ME, I don’t know if you have a legal leg to stand on, but you can consult an attorney.

Wini successfully filed a law suit against her employers and I think settled for some amount, but I am not sure the HASSLE is worth it, as it will keep it STIRRED UP and you still may not win anything.

My husband had several SUCCESSFUL inventions that were stolen by an aircraft company and he filed a suit against them, it was an OPEN AND SHUT case of theft of intellectual property and YEARS HAVE PASSED and the delays and delays have kept my husband from seeing the results of the case, and now they are delaying again, because corporations live forever and if I die, as the last surviving witness, the case dies too. For some reason the DOCUMENTS aren’t enterable in court unless someone can testify that they personally KNOW this information. DUH???? Doesn’t make any sense to me, but if I die POOF, there goes the case. So, since I am 62 in 2 weeks, if they can delay long enough they WIN by default.

I realize that you have PTSD and so on, I do too, but you might be better off to focus the limited energy you have on healing yourself rather than trying to get justice. Believe me, I have been there! I got some small measure of “justice’ with my X-DIL going to jail and the Trojan HOrse Psychopath going to prison for a couple of years, but the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS YOU—I know how limited your energies can be in the early stages of the trauma and devestation, and frankly, I gave up and focused on me.

Good luck. (((Hugs))))



Thank you for your insight. I guess it all seems to be getting harder, even after 4 months. Maybe it was once I realized how my young daughters have suffered psychologically (they are starting counseling this week) and also how unreasonable my ex is being as part of the divorce process. Unrealistically, somehow I hoped that he would be more ‘fair’ after everything he pulled. I know this is absurd considering the kind of person he is. It is just discouraging that their is no justice with these people.

I know that living well is supposedly the best revenge but I don’t even feel like I have the energy for that. I have 3 young girls to raise on my own with no help from him and wonder where the strength and energy is supposed to come from? If it had been a ‘normal’ breakup then I don’t think I would be in such a weakened state. I suppose it hurts to no end to realize that my ex and his family have continued on with their carefree existence in spite of everything. A good part of me would like to burst their bubble since they are responsible for shattering our lives…



maniatissa: What you are experiencing is normal. With time, you will get stronger … as you get stronger, you will for seeing life can be beautiful will become a reality. Just give yourself time … you are still in the numbing phase.

I’m glad your daughters are in therapy. It’s good to talk and get the twisted truth straightened out again … to put it back on track so a person can deal with it.

Manipulation is awful, but to have a parent manipulate children out of their selfishness or insecurities is the most horrible on the scale of 1-10.

Just be glad that your daughters internalized the pain and abuse … and didn’t play along with it. The trade off saga. That’s the worse … seeing fear or selfishness on the parent’s part and seeing one of the children playing right into it because they get a sense of satisfaction or special treatment and a place in the family dynamics… it becomes two against all in the family. Two manipulating and insisting what the other victims are seeing isn’t right. Playing the nice smile to your face confidence game , then slam … putting your back up against the wall and the victim walks around for years saying is everyone crazy, can’t they see … doesn’t anyone want to do anything about this … then turning around and seeing the Cheshire cat grin… ha, ha, ha … everyone believes me and thinks you are the problem.



Thank you…I know I need to feel better for my children’s sake but much of the time thoughts of everything that happened just permeate life as it is now…I have a job interview for a teaching position and I feel like such an emotional mess I don’t know if I can handle it. I feel like I barely have enough attention to give to my kids, nevermind a classroom full of high school students. At the same time I don’t have an alternative financially.

Anyhow, I guess they say that God won’t give you more than you can handle? My ex P used to tell me, and I look back at this and shiver, that what doesn’t kill you in life will make you stronger. I can only wonder at what his intention was when he discarded us all…



Dear OxDrover
I went to law school for a yeaar and although not an attorney I was in the field for 20 years. Yes, those documents must be called on by you at a trial HOWEVER you can and should do an affidavit of authendticity on them both in writing and notarized against a Dying Day emegency testimony via an attorney as well as via a videotaped discussion and testimony as to their authenticty and what you would say on the stand if you were still alive. (Sorry to use those words, but that iswhat it’s for) — and therefore you safeguard the evidence and testimony against possible malfeasance and/or natuarl cause dath. no you do not need to tell teh corp defendants about this — but get someone else in teh video and the neswpaper for the previous two days to authenticate the date and such — little safeguards… Good luck

Dear Maniatissa —
divorce is ridiculous from a P or S — I mean, they LIVE for cheating you so know that up front and no they will not become more human they will become more INhuman and cheat their own children out of money and a livlihood. so kow that up front. However, you are ENTITLED to the lifestyle you had before you divorced. Yes, tehy will hide money. Try to find someway and someone totally removed who will suddenly work their way into becomeing the S or P’s new best friend because given the S or P’s natual tendancies, this person will become the maeans to hide money or be a sounding board for devious ways to trick you at trial. Play the game his way. Find that thrid party FOR your S or P and provide them with whatever they need for money to do this for you and perhaps you can get back just a piece of your sanity. Yes, it will cost you moine but in the divoprce you should over inflate your costs of living from what you used to enjoy and demand that as temporary support during trial and then draw out the traial dates for a loooooong time. as for your own emotional support you will need that . go to Alanon (even if there is no history of alchoholic abuse or drugs or whatever — just go and sympathize with everyione an say you need support and love and are willing to gie yours in exchange because you are dealing with someone with a different kind of abusive behavior that defies alchohol or drugs and you fit the profile just as much as they do. BTW, do NOT get romantically tied to any of these people — just emotionally supported and comforted and seek out companionship even if you have to pay for it so it sdoesn’t feel like a date. You know? Do it for your children’s sake.


In getting the new best friend for your S or P ex-husband to be, make sure that ther is no trail of cash back to thjis person and no contact between this person and you until AFTER the trial is OVER. Hire an intermediary if necessary such as a private investigator in a different city to find someone for you so it is double blind and legit. Good luck — it is definitely worth the money to do it this way to retrieve a bit of your sanity if not document and issue precautions to the private investigator should anything go amiss before trial with your own safety (sorry to sound dire but hey, they are a S or P… what can I say


Maniatissa: Hey, we just didn’t realize how greed and selfishness got out of control in the last 50 years. That’s all. No need to question yourself or beat yourself up over not having a selfish or greedy bone in your body. You did what was right … we just didn’t know that the jerks we were involved with were motivated and blinded by selfishness and greed. What a mess. But, it’s their mess … and they need to be incarcerated to slow down … cause they don’t stop to focus on their own … no they don’t.

Peace. Good luck in your teaching job … I’m sure you will make a great, great teacher … now that you have the insights to see a big problem in our society … you will then be able to nip it in the bud at the age you are teaching. Hey, maybe give you kids an assignment on what selfish and greed can do to a person’s life?

Your girls will make it through too … kids are more resilient than adults. They bounce right back …

Thank God I have the child still alive and thriving in me … LOL.



so is insurance fraud – forgery -identity theft considered a sweetheart scam? I kicked him out 9 months ago and he has been lining his pockets by carrying me on his insurance -claiming I have medicare when I don’t? When checks are sent to him in my name his is signing them and cashing them – am I too do nothing? i have proof he has not lived here in 9 months – he changed his address when he left – he told me he cancelled the domestic partnership medical insurance the day he left – but he didnt – i dint even think he would scam me like this, do I have a case?


YES ! you do have a case henry — Contact whoever is sending the checks and get a copy front and back of any or all of them. If you are declared on teh policy then you should have legal access to request these but make sure you have them sent to you at a different address than yours (his old one) because they may put the envelope in his name and then it would get forwarded and then he would be tipped to the case against him. Capish? Ask the insurance carrier, btw, if you can have copies of the medical claim forms that were submitted too — always good to have the most evidence if possible —
Once you have the evidence, you need to file a report of identity theft and conversion of assets charge with teh police. I believe identity theft is a federal crime so go to the FBI office for this one. Fraud is a civil case so that should be the local or state police and forgery is also a civil case and most DAs are not going to pursue this I’m afraid unless there is mucho evidence — SO !! once the charges are filed at the piolice, contact the insurance company to get them on your side and they will pursue the police and DA to press charges etc. In fact, let them know ahead of time so that they are on your side when you file the complaints. ALSO — get a protection order for your own safety.


This is a good article. One of the main reasons it’s so hard to get closure is that most of us never see justice done. You should know that if your S is in the military, their standards of behavior are high. Adultery is considered a crime, and you can turn them in for it. I was able to do this with my ex. When the army told me that they suspected the S was also faking symptoms to get out with a full pension, my friends (who met him) and I came to the rescue. We sent in sworn statements stating all of the physical feats we watched him perform with no limitations. I have no whether the army ever convicted him on the basis of our statements. But I feel I did everything I could, and I was scared shitless doing it. I was also still in love with him when I did it, so it was really hard to do.

I realize that if I wanted to, I could have also sued him in civil court for intentional infliction of emotional distress (or something like that) and ask for therapy costs. I believe this is also an option for anyone.


StarG: Yeah, you could be awarded anything in court. Now try and get it? That’s the loophole. it’s like getting blood out of a stone.



It’s true, Wini. Winning the judgment is one thing, but it costs more money and time to try and garnish wages, etc. Many S’s don’t have a steady stream of income anyway. Mine did because the army was supporting him while he was petitioning for medical discharge. The thing that prevented me from taking him to court was that I knew he was married when I started dating him. Even though he lied about the circumstances and said he was getting divorced that week, I still knowingly got involved with a married man. It’s something I’m not proud of and wouldn’t want to advertise.


StarG: That’s why anti-social personalities do what they do. They know in advance, before doing their dastardly deeds … that it takes courage, money, determination to go after them. They play the system for everything it’s worth. “Normal” people don’t think about doing any of what anti-socials do … so they got it all over us from the start.

My bosses did what they did and could care less. They knew that if anyone had the balls to go after them, so what? They’d long be retired … by the time your lawsuit got into court, they’d be long gone, and the new bosses would have to deal with the suits. Ridiculous.

God was in our corner though. One of my co-workers who had a suit against the same bosses, had a condition that put his suit to the top of the pile of lawsuits. No one knew about his condition, so the bosses, after smugly and illegally firing him in July were facing him in court at the end of November of the same year! I was a witness in his lawsuit, along with others … and we were all protected by the court “witness protection”. Talk about a how God works in mysterious ways. Never, ever did these managers see God coming. It was God that did these managers under …I was right in the middle of a miracle. If God did not intercede on all our behalves … those same managers were systematically firing us … and my head would have rolled in December of that same year … “Merry Christmas Wini”.

This miracle allowed memories to be fresh … not staled by years of waiting. I had several witnesses die before my suit came to pass. God bless their souls. Angels, absolute Angel co-workers that were there for me in my time of need. Not knowing that other co-worker’s stepped up to the plate and told what they knew that the deceased co-workers could have testified. I was so blown away. It was the only time I got emotional in my deposition was hearing these co-workers repeat what transpired … I’m crying as I write this, it is still emotional for me. God Bless these Angels … all of them.

I’ll write latter. I’m loosing concentration of what I was writing you.



StarG: If one thing that you learned from being involved with an anti-social is … the urgency, the insistence that they must, must, must be with you, that you are the only woman for them, they knew it immediately … blah, blah, blah, blah.

Now, we can just step back and be at peace … so when the right man for us comes into our lives … it won’t be out of urgency, there will be no lies … heck, we’ll probably argue with them when we first met (like normal people do that don’t have hidden agendas).

No more, will we give people excuses for what transpired before they met us. Oh, your wife doesn’t love you anymore … you don’t talk. Too bad, get a divorce … come see me 2 or 3 years after your divorce was finalized.

You’re bitter over your divorce. Too bad, come talk with me in a few years when you get your shit together and your head is on straight.

You hate your job. Too bad, come talk with me a few years down the line after you changed jobs and you are settled in and you love your new environment.

Any other scenarios they want to give us. Look buddy … I’ve been through more than I care to discuss with you … bye, bye.



You are the angel. You love to project your angelic nature on others around you!

I actually did consider a civil suit against the S. But given the time it would drag on, and the humiliation it would cost me, in telling a courtroom full of people I willingly slept with a married man, I didn’t think it was worth it. Remember, I only knew him for 2-1/2 months, and he never got any money out of me. I think the laws about “emotional distress” are probably very vague. If he wanted to fight dirty, he could probably do me all kinds of harm. But I am aware the option was there, and I think others who have incurred greater damage should consider it. At least know you have this option, so you don’t have to remain a powerless victim. Telling your story to others who are in a position to help can be quite empowering.


Looks like we were posting at the same time. I have most definitely learned a lesson about married men, and also about instant flatterers. It’s sad though that I am so guarded with every man I meet now.


StarG: That’s a good thing. You need to guard yourself. You’ve been through a lot … most people wouldn’t have a clue as to what you’ve endured. So, you’re guarded … that’s yourself protecting yourself. Don’t worry about it … in time, when you are ready … you will let your guard down.



Amen Sister Winabago Tell it like it is !


StarG: It’s funny about court or depositions. All you need to do is focus on the truth … and the truth naturally flows out. Truth will never fail you … no matter what they truth is.

All I’m saying is don’t focus on your imagination of what or what couldn’t happen to you when you go to court. All you do is focus on telling the truth how it transpired. Not embellishing on it. Not twisted it to fit a scenario. Just say the truth … and let truth fall on the court ears.

All I know, no matter how difficult the questions the attorneys asked me, no matter how they twisted the reality of the situation (and you know their attorneys … it was their job to make me look like the bad guy) … I just spoke truth … the way it happened … truth.

You never go wrong with the truth… even if you think it’s didn’t go your way (like my situation … the rest of the mess) … it’s because you have to be patient to see how God is working the rest of it out for you.

As people, we have to stop insisting on instant gratification.

How can I put this so you’ll understand. My suit brought down about 70 corrupt individuals … most likely, anti-social personalities. Then, years later, the other truth came out about my EX … big scenario here … but, I know God is using my situation … cause he’s not finished with using me … he’s going after some heavy hitters that need to be brought to justice. I’m just God’s impetus for doing what he needs to do. I have to have faith in God why he’s doing what he’s doing in my life. I know it’s not over … because no matter how high anti-social personalities climb the corporate ladder … there are always righteous people overseeing what they do … and these righteous people get pulled into the mix because of God.

So, I keep my eyes and focus on my faith in God. Let God handle the rest, in his time frame, not mine.



So Wini, do you think I should sue my ex in civil court for intentional infliction of emotional distress over the 2-1/2 month relationship?


My lucky day! StarG, Indi and I … all in the house at the same time.

How did we all get so lucky in the timing today? Who else is on line?


I noticed that, Wini. It’s my lucky day as well.


StarG: I am the worst person to ask about bringing a lawsuit. My having to bring suit was the most painful thing I’ve ever done in my life. The stress, the waiting, the money, the attorneys … let’s just say it’s not my cup of tea.

On the other hand, if you feel that you need to get justice … go for it sweetie. I wouldn’t change my scenario of having filed my lawsuit. It just wasn’t a picnic. Maybe for other personalities it would be a snap … I know my co-workers who had suits had a different mentality than mine. I’m more peace loving … don’t like conflicts … and never had to resolve to a lawsuit to resolve a conflict … and my hand was forced on having to file, I was left with no other option but to file a lawsuit. I told you, this boss demoted me twice already and of course, the union didn’t do anything about it … because the President of the Union was so jealous over me … because my co-workers wanted me as the union president a few years earlier and she always had it in her head that I put them up to it. I found out the same day she found out … when we were standing in line to vote. I told my co-worker’s who wanted to write my name in on the ballot, that I had no time to be union president, that school and study was consuming all my free time.

So, needless to say, jealous on my union president part against me, helped fuel my bosses destruction of my career. It always amazes me that people never figure out their negative mindsets are their own doing … I wasn’t sitting their with a magic wand or anything making their minds think the way they think. Cause if I did … I’d be at the race tracks putting my money on the horse I ordered to come in first place.

Piece of cake, piece of pie.


To tell you the truth, Wini, I am not really angry at my ex S any more. I’ve moved on in a lot of ways, but more dealing with other issues from earlier in my life and ungrieved losses. I’d rather just be done with the sociopath. I am aware that I could have sued him, but I think we have to pick our battles carefully. If there were children and large sums of money (or time) involved, I’d probably sue just on principle even.

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