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By | March 11, 2011 49 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: They are everywhere and they inflict serious damage

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader who posts as “Trista.” On January 10, 2010, we posted her story, “LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: I was dismissed with a shrug.” Well, Trista’s story continues.

I have written to you long ago telling how my S husband destroyed my life. I would never think that I would meet another one, even worst than the first. I wonder why I attract those people.

This is a sad story that is still now breaking my heart. I’m giving this to you and to the site.

I’m writing from Brazil, where I moved after my divorce. The very first week here I was looking for a flat and someone told me about an estate agent who could help. I went to meet him an evening in March this year, and I met a tall, charming guy of 58 who immediately seemed more interested in me as a woman than as a client. I should have seen some red flags when he became unprofessional with me and said I had a nice body. He then invited me for a meal that evening and I went.

We had a nice time, but he was talking sex very quickly. He grabbed both my hands on the table and I took my hands away. He was Mr. Charm, though, and I laughed a lot with him, even though he was quickly asking me intimate questions that I felt uncomfortable with. Leaving the restaurant, he asked me if I would go to a motel with him and of course I said no and planned not to see him again. I should have done so, but next morning he sent me a lovely kind email saying how much he had liked talking to me, and i replied that he should go a bit slowly with me! He agreed and disappeared for a while, but we resumed writing emails very soon.

He asked if I would pay

Through emails we started getting to know each other better, he was lonely, having lost his third relationship (Red flags!!!!!) and I was lonely having lost my husband through divorce. He wrote and wrote, absolutely lovely emails, we started sharing our lives. I asked why we couldn’t meet properly, he had lots of reasons, and we did not meet again till April.

When we met again he was depressed about the end of his relationship and about money. He told me he was absolutely squint (red flags!!!!!). We ended up having a row and left thinking we would not see each other again. I even deleted his phone number from my mobile. However, next day he wrote the biggest email ever, telling me his whole life and we started writing to each other again.

He then asked me if I would pay for a meal for us, since he couldn’t. We could meet again. I agreed. We had a good time and started getting to know each other.

From then on, we started going out together on a regular basis. He took me to the bus station when I had to go away on business, waiting till I left looking into my eyes. We had our regular pizza place, we went to many posh restaurants, and I paid it all. I wanted to be with him and his sad story was touching my heart.

In June we went to another state (Minas Gerais, in the middle of Brazil). He had business there and took me with him. We rented a car and I paid for it. We stopped for food along the way, 5 hours travelling, and I paid for it. I paid the petrol. The trip was wonderful, a lovely place, sunny days, amazing connection between him and me. I was falling in love fast. During this trip we made love for the first time. That was out of this world. He was kind, considerate of me, a lovely man in every aspect.

I was his angel

Another month went by. We saw each other nearly every day. He used to phone 3 or 4 times a day and even in the middle of the night to hear my voice. He asked me not to see other men, still wrote emails saying how wonderful I was, how much he liked me, how I was his angel, how I was this and that, he had only compliments and beautiful things to say. Soon he asked me to be his girlfriend and even ask to meet my adult son and told him we had a relationship. We would go to bed about three times a week and to be in his arms were the best times of my life.

He said he was ‘my husband’ and i was ‘his wife,’ he said he would give me lots of love and care and that our relationship was made in heaven. I believed it all and still paid everything, also bought him needed things like pairs of shoes, trousers, a shirt, mended two jackets, etc. He also started asking me for money to help is day to day, since he was not making ends meet, and I started lending him money in a regular basis. He said he was taking note of it all and would pay back when possible.

We went back to Minas for a second trip. That was even better than the first, since now we were a couple and obviously in love. A problem he had was not holding hands in public and not kissing. I tried to ask him why he could not do these things and he said that they were ’emotional’ and he never did then. (RED big flags !!!!). I suffered a lot about that, sometimes he did hold my hand but it was very quick and he would even take his hand away. One day I held his hand in the underground station and he told me very coldly that he would end the relationship if I did that again. (Oh, the flags were really coming by now.)

Started to pick fights

About this time, things started to change. He started to pick fights for nothings. He started to show a side I did not know, flying into rages for next to nothing and very frequently. The rages were huge affairs and very frightening. I never knew what could trigger then off and started to ‘walk on eggs’ near him. Once in a restaurant he thought the food was bad and wanted to ask for the money back. I asked if I could go and ask, because I knew how he would do it and he said yes, I could go. When I did not get the money back he flew into a horrendous rage against me, asking me to shut up, making me cry in the restaurant, using swear words against me for no reason more than I could not get the money back (and I was paying it all).

Next day he did not know why I was still sad.

We had some episodes of those rages and they were frightening. I realized that he was a liar as well, having told me fibs for no reason. Once he told me that his brother’s girlfriend was a teacher and that his brother was going to finish the relationship with her because of her temper, however when later I mentioned it he denied ever having said that and even said I needed to see a shrink. I think he made that up completely and forgot about it.

He also made me think that the wrong person was me and that I was spoiling the relationship. He had a cunning way to blame me for everything that went wrong with us. His anger attacks were more and more frequent, for trivialities, often I was left wondering what could have provoked the last attack. He also could not deal with frustration and became very depressed. He would say that he did not fight, he only answered to my provocation, that I had a terrible temper. However, he was the one flying off the handle for nothings, and forgetting it all next morning.

Getting bored

I noticed that he became easily bored with things, even my conversation, places, etc.

We had started talking about moving in together before things went pear shaped, and we were planning the flat, he was promising me to do all the fittings himself and we were imagining a life together. He even said that we would live together the rest of our lives. We bought things thinking on our life as a couple and in his good moments I could well imagine how wonderful it could be, if only he could hold his horrendous rages.

One Sunday he went to see his daughter for her birthday and when I tried to phone him, his phone was off. His phone was off the whole day and some of the next. When I finally reached him he said he had had a bad day and was depressed.

Finished the relationship

Next day, out of the blue, HE FINISHED OUR RELATIONSHIP.

He screamed down the phone that he was NOT my boyfriend and much less my husband, when confronted why he asked me to be his girlfriend then he DENIED ever having said that. He also denied everything else he said and said he must have been drunk. He said he was only my friend, not my boyfriend. So I said to him that he have used me as a friend with benefits, and abused me verbally, took my money and my heart. He continued denying ever having had anything with me.

I asked him to tell me all that in person, he came to meet me in a park, two hours late, with a face like a wall, trying to push me away, not wanting even to sit a minute to discuss things.

He then sent me a lovely email saying how wonderful I was, followed by a horrendous hurtful email telling me how bad I am and ten minutes later another email saying he really likes me and I’m a marvelous person, please oh please be his friend.

Next day he phoned me to say he had ANOTHER WOMAN. She was near him and he said he liked her, for her to listen, but later wrote me an email to say she was only a TEST for him. So, he is still using people. I feel cheated, abused and used and was left brokenhearted, without much explanation, only he was probably bored and found another woman.

Talking about that, I should have seen the red flags as well before, as he told me of one night stands he had had. He is also highly sexual, another red flag. His commitment to me meant nothing to him, less than nothing, as he does not even remember the things he said. He had also no empathy for me, for my suffering for him, as I really loved him, and wrote emails telling me how his new relationship was ‘all right.’

I’m also without the money he left from me, a huge amount.

I have contacted his daughter to know if he does these things often and all she answered me was that she has nothing much to do with him and she has her reasons.

Dreams are dead

I’m now suffering so much that I hardly can live. All my dreams of having him are dead and he is not even bothering. He told me to go dancing to forget him!!!!!

So, I’m another woman who saw the S a bit too late. All the signs were there—the lack of feeling, the lack of emotion, the lack of tenderness, like holding hands, the blame I got for everything, he was never guilty, the horrendous rages out of the blue for nothings, the lack of empathy, no sense of commitment even after a full sexual relationship (He said it was ‘functional’), the erratic lifestyle, no money, changing jobs and houses, changing relationships (I was number 4), living off his brother, using my money for EVERYTHING, telling silly unnecessary lies, incapacity for love and attachment, ingratitude for all I did for him, practically maintaining him for a year, his mood shifts, his lack of responsibility for his actions, even denying they ever happened, treating people like tools for money and sex, easily provoked, one night stands, trying to make me feel that I was the crazy one when he told a lie and did not remember it, thinking that i was provoking him to anger when he was the angry one all the time, not honouring formal or informal commitment to a woman who truly loved him.

Please use my story to warn others. They are everywhere and they inflict serious damage in other people’s lives.


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Ox Drover

Dear Trista,

I am sorry that your story had another “episode”—I too have had many Psychopathic chapters in my story because I didn’t really “get it” about them the first or second time through the “University of Hard Knocks.” Your and my stories are proof that if we don’t get the LESSON of the RED FLAGS and we let the “love bombing” that they do to us and the “pity play” they lay on us about being broke or unloved or needy, and then we jump in there to “help” them and bingo! They have hooked another fish.

Your story is well written about the RED FLAGS and how we must learn to recognize them but also to HONOR THEM. Run when we see them, no turning back. No looking back.

I too didn’t honor those red flags because it was painful to do so after Ii had built up so much hope, kept hanging on to that hope of a “happily ever after” in the end…but all Ii got was another lesson from the University of Hard Knocks—and more pain. Now, I am carefully considering anything that sticks up and waves in ALL relationships, if it looks like a red flag I take notice and I honor that flag and turn away from it.

If “he lies” then HE IS THE LIE—-run RUN RUNNNNNNN!!!!!

Thanks you for sharing and God bless…I think though it has been a painful lesson for you, you have learned a very valuable one, I hope your lesson saves others from more painful lessons of their own.

geminigirl

Where is One step? Where is EB?
Whazzup guys? We miss you!!
Love,
Mama GemXX

candy

Hi Trista. The way you describe your spath is classic. So sorry you have faced a second spath but it sounds like you are moving forward.

Your story will be helpful to others here to remind us that spaths are like the common cold, they are everywhere and we never know when the virus is going to target us.

Well done for picking yourself up, dusting yourself off and moving forward 🙂

trimama

Hi, Trista….
Your story is mine. Except for the location, the behaviors you describe are the ones I encountered. Each and every one.
The lies, the manipulations, the superficial charm, expecting me to support him yet not appreciating it, the constant threat of betrayal.
You don’t need me to spell them out for you. You have already endured the same thing.
You are not defective for having fallen into such a relationship for a second time. It is so easy to do. You are hard-wired to fall for this type of man, as am I and the many other wounded souls on this website.
I am new to healing but from what I have learned so far, it is helpful to separate your feelings from what he did. Meaning that how he treated you has nothing to do with you as a person because you were not a person to him. You were just a reflection of himself, for the time being. Then he moved on for a new reflection. As you became more aware of what he was about, he needed to find a new mirror for his shallow self.
So this is not about you as a naive person but about a shadow of a person trying to catch the dying sunlight so as to continue to shine..at anyone’s expense.
If you can hold onto the fact that the very things that make you uniquely you…your kindness and trust, your sweet nature…make you the perfect mirror for such a wounded person, maybe you can take the pain off of yourself a bit and place it on him. Because he is in permanent pain.
I am hoping that yours is temporary.
God bless you, Trista.
Know that you are not alone and not stupid. We have all been where you are, and we are not stupid…just caring.

Ox Drover

Dear Trimama,

Your advice to Trista is excellent! You already KNOW the things you need to know to heal yourself—see, I TOLD YOU THAT YOU WERE STRONGER THAN YOU BELIEVED OR KNEW!!!! The Knowledge base is there for you to build upon to build a FORT that will protect you from this kind of abuser in the future. That will still allow you to open your heart to good people, but just not open those doors to just anyone who knocks and says “let me in.” We must learn to recognize the evil from the good and BAR THE DOOR to the evil ones.

You are right, too, you are NOT STUPID, JUST CARING! God bless. Your wisdom is showing through!

hgg522

Trista,
Thank you for your story. I have to believe that being able to tell our stories actually do lead to healing..eventually. I have been divorced from mr. wonderful s/p for almost 5 years. It only got worse from there. He married one of the women he was cheating on me with and she is just as big a liar, s/p as he is. When they were starting their relationship, they met in a bar of course and I am sure he played the “pity me” game with her to suck her in. She knew about me and together they made my kids keep their relationship a secret. I though that once we were divorced and I was able to move away things would get better. Wrong!!! Now he has his wife and her whole family involved in the “smear campaign” and her family is just as psychotic as he is. They belong on the Jerry Springer show; last year they took a “family vacation” to Disney World and got into a drunken braul and were kicked out of the park. These people are in their 40’s and his wife and her sister beat each other to a bloody pulp all in front of my kids. Who gets kicked out of Disney World?!! Any way, he has her and her family doing all the dirty work so he can of course look like he’s Mr Innocent. He is a total shmooser. They both lie and the good thing is my kids know they are liars. They know it is all a game. i do have to remind them at times because these people are so stinkin seductive. It seems like it never ends. Together they work trying to hurt me. Even though the kids know what they are all about, it is still easy for them to get caught up in the games..being bought. I have spent everything I have on court battles and unfortuately the courts are so corrupt that it just doesnt seem to ever end..family law in Illinois, Dupage co. is a huge money maker. One day my kids will be 18 and I will never again have to deal with these fools. In the end we win..after a time of sacrifice and what seems like prison, we are eventually freed from these people. They will always be empty shells of darkness with no idea of what it feels like to love or be loved. They are in a constant state of paranoia due to all the nasty, deceptive things they have done to others and are never able to know reality. They will never excape their prison, their isolated hell that they brought upon themselves. They chose this path..their end is destruction either way you look at it. For us, with a conscience, we can love and be loved. there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We have hope…and no one can take that away. I teach my kids if they do the right thing, the right thing will happen. Maybe not immediately, but eventually. I dont teach my kids to hate. I do teach them about certain behaviors and how to protect themselves. At 13 and 11, they both have a conscience and are both faith filled and very loving…but that takes commitment. As stable and sane parent, we need to take the extra time and it does take sacrifice. Possibly even losing part of who we are…but it is worth it when you can hear your children tell you they love you and mean it. Right now, I am the common denominator between me ex s/p and his wife..the “hated one”. But when my prison sentence is over and my kids are grown and I can move out of this state…what do they have? Detruction=Destruction…Wish I could feel bad for them, but I dont!

Ox Drover

Dear HGG,

Welcome to LF your first post was a good one and shows that you are healing. Glad that you are here and hope you will share your hard won wisdom with other parents here who are going through this same thing, only closer to the “epicenter” of the earthquake! Ot digging out of the tsunami after the divorce. Your experience shows in your post!

Glad you are here! Thanks for sharing! God bless.

skylar

HGG,
welcome.
You summed up life with the P’s so perfectly.

It’s heartwarming to hear how your kids are able to surmount life with a P to become loving people instead of drama queens.
Congratulations on that victory.

hgg522

We are not out of the water, but one day closer to the victory. I did read “Just like His Father”. I would recommend reading it. Says that children of an s/p have a 60% chance of becomming an s/p. Well, my kids know that statistic. They know that I am on to them (only in a loving way, and we can joke about it.) They know what their dad is. They are still kids, they try to manipulate if they can. They will try to lie if they can. (Sometimes they will try to play into their dad’s game to get what they want but I let them know wrong is wrong, no matter which parent you are trying to play) The difference is that they are redirected by positive parenting. They know there are certain consequences for certain behaviors. Sometimes they can choose the consequence, depending. The assuring thing is that they feel bad when they do something wrong. I choose to promote honesty when dealing with my kids. I help them to see the wrong they did and help them to understand. But I also follow through with the consequence. Key with children is to follow through with what has already been determined, good or bad. James Lehman’s “Total Transformation” is very helpful. If we ignore the undesirable behaviors in our kids or if we react and take them personally, that gives them unwarrented control. The key is to be the parent. Parent first, friend later. I love my kids and really dont want them to be s/p’s. With s/p’s, they are like spoiled kids on steroids, used to getting their way and will use any measure necessary….that is the only thing that saddens me about s/p’s. They were kids once..Once. That is about the extent of my empathy for them.
I am so grateful for the information that is out there, the personal experiences that I read, even though they are heart breaking, it is giving us as parents and as people the tools that we need to be better prepared and armoured. To even know what an s/p is considering where I was 20 years ago, I have come a long way!

Ox Drover

Dear HGG,

Well as a biological parent of one card-carrying psychopath and one arsehole but has a conscience, I know what you are saying. Unfortunately, God gave humans free will, so we can choose. I believe that just like a person can have the genetic make up to be an “alcoholic” we still have the choice to drink or not…it doesn’t DICTATE that we become an alcoholic.

Both my biological sons know right from wrong, one cares about doing wrong, his conscience bothers him and he isn’t going to kill someone or burn my house, but he will lie to me (he’s an adult, no kid) so I’m done, no more chances for him, the other one is a full blown psychopath who would kill me if he could, but he’s in prison so right now I’m safe. If he gets out I won’t be safe unless he can’t find me.

Fortunately, I have an adopted son who’s a dear man, and a wonderful person. Has some spathy in his background but it isn’t expressed in his behavior or personality–but I have more spathy in my genetic pool that it would take a LOT OF CHLORINE TO CLEAN UP MY GENE POOL.
s

hgg522

Dear Ox,
I do read many of your posts and realize you’ve “been there, done that…got the t-shirt.” I was talking to my husband that all we have is hope. My history isnt squeeky clean and I have made my fair share of mistakes. I was telling my brother that the only thing that has kept us from being s/p’s is our ability to love. in the triangle of character, we have moral reasoning, ability to love and impulse control. if you do not have any of these, you are an s/p. I did things out of choice whether right or wrong, but i never lost my ability to love. i think generally kids want to do the right thing. as parents though, we can only do what we can do. the rest is up to them. here is where our hope comes in. i hope they choose to do the right thing. when we have that genetic makeup either we are spaths or we attract them. I know i’m not one, but i do attract them male and female alike. I am grateful for the knowledge though, and my kids already know, if they choose to live like that, it will be without me…peace…

Ox Drover

Dear HGG, You are a wise woman and I applaud you for that wisdom and resolve. It took me a LONG time to realize that I did not have to tolerate abuse just because it was a family member doing it. Or a “close friend”—I can choose to not have that person in my life. I’ve become VERY selective about who I let close to me and what behavior I tolerate or give a person another chance over.

What is even harder is living up to my own standards of conduct and thinking…and forgiving myself when I fail. It is a WORK IN PROGRESS and I will never get to where I do it all right, none of us will, and I don’t expect anyone to be perfect, just honest and kind. If a person has those two things (really, a moral compass) the rest can be dealt with. Without honesty and/or kindness, nothing else matters. We all make mistakes, it is recognizing them, repenting of them and trying to do better that makes the difference between us and “them.” They know right from wrong, b ut do not care.

lesson learned

HCG,

I just wanted to comment about your posts. You ARE very wise and a great Mom! It’s good that you’re so intuitive and caring about your children so as to balance your good sense against your ex’s shenanigans. I feel so badly for people who share custody with their spaths and I thank the GOOD LORD every single day that My exP husband did not want the responsibility and that ex spath 2 did not have much contact with my children. I wish I had had your wisdom when I came across last spath. I might have thought more about my children, than I was thinking about myself….

Having said that, it’s a good thing you’re so vigilant with your children because I DO believe this is genetic. While I believe that, it is also possible that even with great parenting, a child can still turn out to be a P. I think the chances are LESS LIKELY when there is a healthy, stable parent involved and ENCOURAGES empathy and love as you do.

So kudos to you for your vigilance, love and care of your children as well as the sacrifices you’re making to see that prevention may indeed, in your case, be the “cure”.

LL

hgg522

Thanks for those kind words. It is a generational curse that I am hoping has been broken. I never realized how important setting boundaries is until now. I teach my kids that they have to established boundaries for their protection. if someone does not respect those boundaries and continues to overstep them, they are abusers and there is no excuse for abuse…when we graduate kindergarten, the only reason we should go back to kindergarten is to teach…peace

skylar

HGG,
Its wonderful how forthright you are being with your kids about this PD. You are giving them the tools they need to navigate the shark infested waters out there as well as the difficulties they will face battling their own demons in life. Kudos to you.

Foolme2wice

Trimama says:

“Meaning that how he treated you has nothing to do with you as a person because you were not a person to him. You were just a reflection of himself, for the time being. Then he moved on for a new reflection. As you became more aware of what he was about, he needed to find a new mirror for his shallow self.
So this is not about you as a naive person but about a shadow of a person trying to catch the dying sunlight so as to continue to shine..at anyone’s expense.”

Wow! These words are so sage and so insightful to me. They really help me to clarify my ex s-path, and they help me to deal with the current reality of my situation.

Thank you, Trista, for sharing your story. There are so many similarities in your story, and the stories of every LF blogger which help me to understand, and to know for certain, that I am not crazy, my story is unfortunately, not unique, and that a person you thought you knew, loved, and lost, never really existed in the first place.

It’s been 3 weeks of NC for me, but he keeps emailing me to ask how I am and to try to bait me, letting me know that things are not going well for him. (You reap what you sew). I have typed scathing emails to him (which include his sappy quotes of undying love and promises of a happy future), but I now have the resolve not to send them thanks to LF. I still wake up at all times of the night anxious, saddened, and uncertain of the future, but I know that I am well rid of him and that better times lie ahead.

“Love Fraud” is such a great name and a such a very helpful site. Thanks again to all of you who share!

Foolme2wice

Dear Oxy and Trimama,

You are both so right! I remember the S-path stopping his car in the middle of the road on more than one occasion, (in the pitch black with no street lights), because of his temper. He would later appologize and tell me that only I could make him so mad, and that it had never happened before. So, I too, will remember Jessica in my moments of weakness.

It is really tough. My ex is so incredibly handsome and charming. He was so helpful and loving at first. He really conned me. My kids really like him, and we live in a very small town. I think that since I introduced him to my friends who live here, it’s going to be impossible to avoid him completely. I pass him on the road at least twice a week, and he gives me a wave as if we are friends. I guess my plan is to feign indifference and to do my best to avoid him. I read the stories of those who have relapsed, and they are never happy. I know what to do. I hope I have the strength to be firm in my resolve.

What do you think of me dating so soon? I would like to try it. I have never really done that, as I was married for 20 years (to a narcissist) prior to the S-path. I wonder if it would be a good distraction,or if it would be unfair to my potential suitors…

Trimama,
Maybe you need a good distraction, too!

trimama

Hi, FoolMe..
I am thankful my words helped you.
None of us are ever truly out of the woods from this misery, unless our psychopath dies. Even then, we are haunted by the memories.
It’s just that some of us are in a different place in the healing process. I, too, consider calling him and leaving voice mails, or texting. Because I miss him. I truly do.
That said, I understand that he will never change and that a life with him is one filled with pain.
I hold fast to the words I read here. Ox tells of her son who killed his girlfriend. And as I’ve noted, that could easily have been me.
So I remember Jessica when I consider calling him.
And I don’t.
Hold on, FoolMe. You know you can’t hold on to him because it is like holding onto air. Or rather, smog. Or like having cotton candy in your mouth…tastes great for such a brief moment, then dissolves so quickly that you wonder if you there was ever anything there. You just have the residue of a taste.
Take a piece from all of what you read here. No story needs to match yours entirely in order to be of benefit.
With knowledge comes power.
Claim yours.

Ox Drover

Dear Trimama, you gave some good advice to FOOLEDME2WICE, and I hope you are doing well and taking it as well. It is reaching out to others that we help ourselves stand as well….like two one-legged men holding on to each other in order to stand upright, we can DO IT TOGETHER!!!

LoveFraud is a wonderful site and it gives us the opportunity to learn from each other, and to support each other, and together we can stand! (((hugs)))) and God bless and keep you both safe.

Fooledme, writing the emails and NOT sending them is a good idea. I wrote 1,000 letters and never mailed them. EVERY one I did mail, I REGRETTED COMPLETELY. Believe me, NC is the ONLY way to heal! (((hugs)))

trimama

Thank you, Ox.
You are right in terms of reaching out and helping others, thereby helping ourselves.
I don’t really feel any further along in the healing process than I was.
I miss him. Maybe not as much.
I cry. Maybe not as often.
I wonder where he is and what he is doing. No improvement there.
I am getting stuck here.
How do I get him out of my head?

trimama

Hey, fooledme,
I tried that, dating someone else. Last night, in fact.
I went to dinner and for four hours, felt less pain. It was kind of fun to have the attention of another man.
That said, I found myself comparing them as this man spoke. It doesn’t help that I seem to go for the same type of man…tall, handsome, black bad boys.
You may want to carefully consider the effects of your actions on your s/path. If he knows you are dating, what will be the outcome?
For me, it is a big city and I know the neighborhood where he is. And do not go near it. I know his habits. And I do not wish to enrage him.

Ox Drover

Dear Trimama and Fooledme2wice,

I suggest that you both forget about dating for now. Heal yourselves before you become involved in another relationship right now…and that may take some time. Almost all of “us” that get right out of a relationship with a psychopath jump into another bad relationship. Another bad relationship isn’t going to save you from this one, and right now you are not in shape to be in a healtny relationship yourself, you are still to raw, and not quite sure what “truck” just ran over you or why you didn’t see it.

Take my advice and work on yourself, your own healing, and getting over the trauma from the recent betrayal before you consider getting involved with anyone else. Other wise there’s a good chance you will be right back here talking about the next failure Your next healthy relationship deserves a healthy YOU to succeed!

The feeling stuck in one emotion or the other will come and go and the emotions will go up and down like a roller coaster. Don’t let that scare you. Just keep coming here and reading the articles and learning. Knowledge really IS POWER. lEARN AND BE PATIENT! (((HUGS))))

lesson learned

UGH!

I’m reading this and feel I just have to give a cautionary note here….

Fooledme/mama

I tend to agree with Ox (ok, although twenty years ago, i would have thought she was a looney tune lol!), I guess it’s true that the older you get, if you’re willing, the wiser you become….

I’m becoming an old fart (SHIAT!! NOT THAT!!)

Anyway….instead of a lecture, or a one upmanship here, I’ll just share this with you and let you do what you want with it, take it or leave it….

When I was just out of my marriage (actually, a little before), I was “friends” with spath. When I kicked exP out, I totally went for my relationshit with ex spath, can I just tell you NO- BUENO!!!!

Listen chicas….a MAN is NOT going to resolve your unresolved issues.

I realize that there are exceptions, but running from one relationshit to a potential ‘nother one, is only going to mount your pain and ADD to your pain and sorrow, not MEND you although it may seem so at first. I don’ tknow how old you chicas are, but I have a feeling younger than me. So having said that you have THE TIME to REFLECT, THINK AND PONDER on WHY you got into these PAST relationshits to begin with, rather than think it’s all good and run into yet ANOTHER bad relationshit.

When you’re cool with yourselves, WITHOUT A PENIS TO FIX IT FOR YOU< life is going to be SOOOOO GOOD when the right one comes along. But PLEASE take the time to be ok with yourselves before you ponder yet another devastating relationshit. I have yet to meet ANYONE here who has adequate P radar after one of these relationshits without doing DEEP work on yourselves first. Please don't make the same mistake I did. And a bigger mistake than the first. I know for a FACT, had I waited and respected myself enough, not wanting a distraction from my pain, I would have waited…and not WASTED another many years on a man who wasn't worthy of that time.

God bless!!!

LL

Caylin

Dearest Trista,
Your story sounds pretty much like mine, except that when i started to figure my ex-sp out, lies, smere campagnes against me with everyone, just different lies for different occassions ( i was one type of person for his Mom and his work and his friends) none of which were me but it worked to keep people away from me cuz they all thought i was, in behavior, him……At the end, his paranoia was so bad! When he told me that he didn’t trust me i told him it was because he had lied to me, stolen from me, treated me horrible at times and if i were him i wouldn’t trust me either… Well at that time he realised that i had his number, the game was up, He was not going to get another dime from me. ONce he knew that i had him pegged he really got so untrusting/paranoid that he started a fight with me when he got home from work and beat the living crap out of me. Sometimes to my own demise i don’t back down when i should, i speak the truth even if it pisses people off, so on this night, Oct…. 8.. I TOLD HIM THAT I HATED HIM, RETURNING THE FAVOR FROM AN EARLIER CONVERSATION AND I KNEW WHAT HE HAD BEEN DOING TO ME, STEELING,LYING, I even told him that i had been talking to someone at his job and i have heard everything that he had been saying about me! Intuitively i knew what he was doing but i had not talked to anyone at his job but obviously he had said enough to everyone that he thought his whole game was blown, he became very angry and ( not healthy i know) but when we first started seeing each other i told him that what ever he did to me throughout our relationship i promised him that i would do the same thing to him, promised…. If he was loving then i would be too, easy for me because that’s my nature and if he cheated,lied, etc…, rest assured it would be done back and i don’t think he ever forgot that. So he was really scared because he thought i had an insider telling me what he was doing and saying. Well what i have learned is it really isn’t too smart to play their game because they get pissed if you get one over on them or call them on the truth. He is still in Jail, i am pressing charges, doing anything i can to keep his butt in jail…First let me say that he broke my cheekbone completely free floating and fractured my upper and lower jaw bone and there was what looked like a strangulation bruise across my throat ( like a cord had been used, i was knocked out so i don’t know what he did) He is facing at the most 19 yrs at the least 1 yr in prison. He is saying that i did the damage myself and he was protecting himself. After his arrest i found out he was married, he said he had lost a baby 2 yrs old and that was a lie too, among everything. What i can say is this site was found in my e-mail out of the blue and i started to read about his behavior being very similar to the stories i had been reading about just 2 months prior to his assault on me. He tried to intimidate me not to testify and when he saw that wasn’t going to work he walked into the court room wiping tears from his eyes, all a con and i still told the judge that he tried to kill me…Yes someone had mentioned that we have to do the work inside of ourselves or we will always pick the same type of person in different clothes and that is a fact….. GOd/ess bless all of you and don’t stop beleiveing that REAL LOVE dose exist but first we need to learn to love ourselves, and heal that subconscience thought pattern that tells us that we don’t deserve any better……It only gets worse and sometimes quick. As a victim of such people we are in grave danger, once they find out that we are onto them so everyone be caareful,really
caylin

I find a lot of comfort reading your story. Doesnt that sound strange. However, when you are aware that these horrid people are out there then you need to have that confirmed by others to show that you havent “lost it”. Their behaviour is identical! I didnt have to read much before I started to feel your mans PD. Those red flags were in operation right from the beginning. Problem is we are genuine and just want to be loved for who we are. We give real love back but they abuse that. I always say that if you want to know about someone…. talk to their family. Trust your intuition. I always did until it was put to the test. If you have any doubt at all, get out fast. I wish there was a data base for these creeps as they are out there playing their abusive games on others. Do you want others to go through what you have been through? Of course not.
You will grow through this experience. It will take time, but you will surprise yourself. You are strong and able not to crumble. I crumbled but I always got up off the floor and stood tall.
Thanks for your honesty. Your story is important to us.

Foolme2wice

Dear LL,

I think that your situation and mine seem VERY similar. I do consider myself a strong person. I can take care of myself financially. I can fix anything around the house. I have a great, high paying job and a graduate degree, but emotionally, I agree, I am a mess. I think I don’t necessarily, “need a penis to fix it for me,” but I do really miss the feeling of love and connection to a man that I thought I had with the SP.
I liken dating more to methodone as compared to heroin. I have never been addicted to any drug, but I was definitely addicted to the SP. I have had 7 months of being on the backburner and have had time to kind of process the whole emotional mess. I know that I should look for a nice guy for once in my life, and I hope I can find one. It makes me very happy to hear any stories of successful love after the SP trauma on this site. I am 45, and I think (hope) that I have learned my lesson after 26 years of being with 2 personality-disordered folks, that I can finally look for a good man. I do plan to date (with caution) soon. I am still on the emotional roller coaster of “being hit by a truck,” but I have faith that a good person is out there for me. It’s too depressing for me to think otherwise.
By the way, the SP tried to bait me with a check-up email tonight, but I was able to hit “delete” with no problem thanks to you all!

lesson learned

Fooled Me.

I’d LOVE to hear about what you do!! I’ve not “taken care of myself” financially, really. Still striving for my degree, that I’ve just about completed, but then decided to try to change course that will require a few more years of schooling. It must be really nice to be established in something. I’m really curious and perhaps you could answer this for me: Does being able to be financially solvent and independent, help you to deal with this better (I know that probably sound so crass, and I honestly don’t mean it too, but I AM curious if that helps with your self esteem while going through this). I’m 47 and I understand what you mean about two personality disordered relationshits. I did that too. Married to the first for twenty years, involved with the second for ten. Over half my life, no wait, LONGER, if you include my childhood, dealing with spaths. I’m just flat tired.

I wish I could offer you something that says there is success in love after SP. I’m not looking for it. I have no desire to date. He still permeates my being and I have too much work to do and am too much of a mess to even think about it. Another reason I wonder if having a life that is productive outside of SP makes it just a little easier. May I ask how you got involved with yours? Was he as “successful”, career wise, as you are? What made you realize he was SP? How long were you in it?

Fooled, there ARE good men out there, even if few and far between as we get older. I think. Seems so unfair to me that SP’s can hook up immediately with women abundant, while there doesn’t seem to be men out there that aren’t like an SP, if that makes sense. All the rotten pieces of crap seem to be tossed back into the dating pool, unfortunately, but there ARE good men out there.

Congratulations on deleting your check up email!! YAY!!! THAT is progress, my dear!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!

Hang in there Fooled. You seem to have great strengths that will help you get through this!

LL

lesson learned

FoolMe.

Forgive me. I’m looking up this thread (as I Should have done before I responded) and reading your story again a little bit. It’s hard to keep everyone straight for me.

It’s totally up to you if you feel ready to date or when you do. I don’t know if you’ve read Donna’s Ten Signs You’re Dating A Sociopath, but I have found them helpful in a lot of ways and have shared it with others too.

I understand about wanting to feel loved and cared for by a man. I think that’s another reason I stayed in the last relationshit so long. I’m learning that it has to come from within, rather than from outside. I’m lonely as hell. Isolated somewhat. Grieving. But I’m willing to try to withstand that. It makes me ANGRY that I don’t feel like the answer to escaping is through yet another mistake and failed relationshit. There was a time I would have done just that and probably walked right into the arms of another predator to forget the pain of the last….but this time, it’s different for me. I need to grieve and heal. This is a choice for me.

As it is for you too. I hope you will come and post again when you DO date. I know that Donna found love after her relationshit with a spath. It IS possible, just not sure if it’s so common.

HUGS

LL

Foolme2wice

Dear LL,

I am glad to hear that you are working on making yourself happy. I can tell you, for certain, that having my career and being financially stable is a big help to me in getting over my 25 year relationshit with my narcissist and my 2 1/2 year one with th SP. I also exercise often and go out to socialize at least twice a week.
I know that I have used bad judgement in men, probably due to the fact that my mom married 3 times in my youth. The sperm donor was abusive, and she luckily only stayed with him 4 years. The second was bipolar (6 years), and the third is probably Asperger’s, but he’s OK, and I like him now. (They’re still together). As a kid, I got in to punk rock and rebellion and loved the bad boys who went along with that movement. I got married too young and spent many years impossibly trying to please a narcissist. I gave up and decided to be myself.
I met my SP when I was still married. I was charmed by his good looks, and I used him as catalyst to get out of my bad marriage. No one knew about our relationship and only my friends and family know to this day. Honestly, it was I that pursued him. I knew that he had a snippy, sometimes mean sense of humor, before I got involved with him, but it stopped once we were together, and he laid on the charm. I received daily emails of undying love, calls, cards, gifts, and help with tasks and projects. How could I resist?
I noticed some red flags regarding his temper and mood swings about a year into the relationship, but he always made up for it and apologized. He had a stable job for 17 years, and got another one right away upon its loss. However, he lost that one 3 weeks ago due to the economy. I figured out that he was an SP by researching his symptoms. He started becoming distant about 8 or 9 months ago. Wierd things started to happen on our FB sites. Men from my past got mysteriously deleted from my account (he had my password). I asked him about it, and he got extremely indignant. He started to get really friendly flirty postings from a young woman on his site. Then I got unfriended. He said he closed his account, but he lied. The woman started posting photos of them as a couple for her profile, but “I was just too sensitive. They were only friends from their fitness group.” Seriously, he was such a good liar and was so adamant that I was the one with issues. I almost believed him.
Anyway, as I reasearched his past more, I found out incidences of him stealing from a friend and of a major lie that he told in his area of fitness that was highly publicized. I know he was a rebel and got into trouble in his youth, and that he has a strained relationship with his family. More and more, I would catch him in stupid lies. I realized that I was always worried and on edge, checking up on his honesty, ignoring my gut, having to let things slide, putting up with his temper, emotional distance, and his mood swings. Why was I doing this? I was addicted to him.
As I researched his symptoms to see if his divorce or midlife crisis was to blame, and also to alleviate my feelings of craziness, I found this site. All the pieces started to come together. As I read the stories and examples here, I realized that he fit the mold of an SP. I still wonder if I’m wrong, as we all do, but I’m pretty certain that I am not. I can now read his actions through a different set of lenses, and it gets clearer to me every day.
I sincerely hope that you, me, and everyone else here does find happiness, first, within ourselves, and secondly, in a loving relationship with a good person. We all deserve that. I think we are all here because we are extra kind, hopeful, compassionate, and are believers in the goodness of human nature. Those are traits that we should all be proud to possess. We just need to be more careful on whom we choose to give our love to. I will keep you posted on my progress. Hugs and best wishes to you!

Claudia

FooledMe and LL,

I think that dating again after a relationshit with a spath is great as long as you (or one in general)

1) are not married 🙂
2) use all the caution towards red flags you learned
3) follow your intuitions, which are stronger now
4) are aware of your boundaries and don’t cross them under pressure

One of the things Donna didn’t want the psychopath to take away from her is the dream of finding real, mutual love. And she found it!

Ox Drover

FooledMe,

To me it isn’t the “dream” of finding a “real relationship” with a man that is important, it is FINDING A **REAL ** RELATIONSHIP WITH MYSELF that is important.

If I have a “dream” of being a Kentucky Derby Winning Jockey and I focus ALL my energy on that “dream” (which let’s face it folks, is NOT likely to happen–I’m 64 years old and weigh as much as TWO jockeys) and if I PREDICATE MY HAPPINESS ON THAT DREAM COMING TRUE I am NOT going to ever be happy.

My FOCUS now is to be HAPPY NO MATTER WHAT! WITH OR WITHOUT A Relationship–with our without being a Kentucky Derby Winning Jockey–so if I am HAPPY, happy with myself, then IF AND WHEN I GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A GOOD MAN, I will be READY for it. If I am NOT happy in the meantime, I have wasted my life waiting for WHAT? Something that didn’t happen. Or, I JUMP at the first guy who invites me out to coffee and I IMAGINE he loves me when he is just saying nice things to get me into the sack. Then when he skips off down the road after our short fling, I feel BETRAYED and HURT and I’m back to square one—NEEDY, ALONE, LONELY AND UNHAPPY.

I think that looking to EXTERNAL things for “happiness” or contentment and only being “happy” if we have those things is self defeating. I loved my late husband, he was a good man, we had a good marriage, but unfortunately, toooo much of my “happiness” depended on him. When he died, I lost it….and that neediness opened me up to attack by a predator because I grasped at straws to ease my pain, to stop my grief. To reassure myself that I wasn’t “unlovable” and that I wasn’t going to spend the rest of my life ALONE!!! (Gasp!)

NO ONE no matter how much they love us or we love them or we love each other can guarantee that they will never die and leave us. And we can’t guarantee someone that we will never die and leave them. We can love and be loved, but ultimately our security must come from WITHIN OURSELVES for ourselves.

NO ONE else can “make” us happy and that happiness be secure if it is totally dependent upon someone else providing that.

Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s Search for Meaning” which he wrote after he lost everything in the Nazi camps showed me that I can’t depend on anyone or anything to provide my happiness. I must provide it for myself. I must find MEANING IN MY LIFE and exclusive of everything else material because any other kind of meaning is subject to loss at any time.

I find the order, the calm, and compassion in the Japanese people right now—as compared to the disorder and chaos and looting, rape and murder, in New Orleans during Katrina—remarkable and wonderful. Their police are NOT wading through chest high water holding stolen TVs over their heads, people are helping each other, not robbing and raping. Lines are orderly for the scarce resources, no one is pushing and shoving with a me-first attitude. Contrast that to our culture and society here. Just something to think about.

behind_blue_eyes

Sometimes society does not recognize the harm done and focuses on the “positive,” such as in the case of the sociopath Lance Armstrong: http://www.versus.com/blogs/the-experts-opinion/armstrong-remains-unscathed-in-the-limelight-despite-accusations/in-stream/sort/most-recent/

Ox Drover

BBE, while Armstrong has been accused of drugging, I’m not sure that it is proper to label him a sociopath at this point, even if he is guilty of that drugging. Sociopathy is a PATTERN of behavior—if he is guilty of drugging, he is dishonest, but that still (assuming that is all he is guilty of) doesn’t mean he has the widespread PATTERN of abusive behavior and in relationships that it takes to make for a diagnosis of sociopathy/psychopath/anti-social personality disorder.

I think, personally, that we should reserve the terms S/N/P for the worst of the worst, not necessarily for the run of the mill person who will dishonestly compete in sports versus the Michael Vicks who will repeatedly kill and abuse living creatures or other people FOR sport.

purewaters3

I have actually met a couple of women who had ex’s with personality disorders. One woman was a lawyer from California with a sociopath for an ex. The other lady, yesterday, a narcissistic ex.

I’m just glad my “crash course” in personality disorders is over, and even though I still feel sad from time to time, I mostly enjoy rehashing stuff with others who have gone through the same thing.

Ox Drover

Purewater, it is a good thing to LEARN from our experience and the experiences of others so that we don’t REPEAT the same experience again. Unfortunately, I didn’t always learn from my experiences with Ps, so I got to take “psychopathic experience 101,” several times. LOL

purewaters3

Ox,

I reeeeaaaally hope my crash course is over. I have worked very hard on pacing myself in any relationship, being mindful and conservative, not offering emotional support to people who I haven’t “sniffed out” yet. And, definitely noticing inconsistencies with personality that stick out.

I’m even fairly sure I bumped into another sociopath because of my job – noticing he played on words quite a bit, and was trying to press buttons to see if I would respond. He even had “the stare” or glare :D. It was spooky and left me feeling a little gross, but I am SO GLAD I am at this point in my personal recovery.

No more illusion. Just the bitter stomach from a bad relationship with a socio – and feeling like although I am still spiritually bruised, I have recovered a lot. Now, I feel I’m able to give people some great advice, and have directed both ladies to this website for reinforcement and information.

purewaters3

This writer’s story is very sad. It reminds me a lot of the deep rejection I felt with my ex sociopath. He often used the anger and dismissal, neglect, ignoring, followed by attention and compliments when he wanted something. Amongst fear mongering, but that’s a whole different paragraph 😀

This sociopathic immature behavior had an incredibly deep way of exploiting very sensitive parts of my emotions. Somehow, on a level, I was aware that he was manipulating me, but instead of seeing his actions as indicating his personality disorder, I felt deeply responsible – as if I was unworthy.

Very painful game to get sucked into.

trimama

Folks?
I have to tell you that labelling Lance Armstrong a sociopath will inspire a lot of anger.
Needlessly.
I have read his books. They have no hint of sociopathology.
Narcissim, perhaps.
But I see no value in tagging him in this way, with all of the really good wisdom that comes from this site.

trimama

And as an FYI….
Unless you understand how drug testing is performed in professional cycling, combined with the pure hate that the Europeans have for American cycling champions, it is unwise to comment on this area.
This is a slippery slope and again, a bit of a waste of the wisdom and direction available here.
His good far outshines any bad.

Ox Drover

Trimama,

I agree that there is insufficient evidence to label Armstrong a psychopath, I don’t doubt though that he is a bit narcissistic though…but even IF he did “drug” for the sports, that still doesn’t mean he is a psychopath, only a cheat….psychopathy is a PATTERN of attitude and behavior not just being somewhat dishonest in your sport or profession. It MIGHT mean he tended to be high in the traits, and it might not. Just ONE instance is not enough to label someone anything….especially a psychopath.

How are you doing? I hope you are doing better and feeling better. (((hugs)))

trimama

Yeah, labelling Armstrong a psychopath is a stretch. Drug testing in cycling is a very difficult thing for most people to understand. One possible positive result out of the thousands of tests that have been conducted on this man is no indicator of drug use.
I am better.
I keep your mantra in my head..”NO contact.”
The other day, he came to my work place, wanted to talk, said he would do anything to make it work, one more chance, etc.
I told him firmly that it was over and that I desired no further contact. None. I had never been that decisive with him before.
He stepped up his efforts….calling, texting, coming to my work place. Pleading.
I did not respond.
I wanted to. My mind played games with me…focusing on the pain in his voice, the need I sensed, the fun times we had, the beauty of his body.
Until I considered that that same body had lain naked in my bed with another woman from the neighborhood. That his sexual compulsion knows no boundaries, and it is disrespectful to me.
That he will continue to use crack.
And that his concern is only in meeting his own needs, never any true concern for mine.
And that if I was ever alone with him again and he got angry, it is very likely that he would kill me.
Honestly, having your mantr in my head made all the difference. I kept softening my heart, ratinonalizing reasons to answer his call.
But I recited, “NO contact” over and over and over.
And that directed my behavior in a way that I could not on my own.
So thank you.
In many ways, Ox, you may well have saved a life today.

Hopeforjoy

Trimama,

Good going girlfriend! You deserve a pat on the back and a high five!!!

I compare their pleading to a sirens song, it’s beautiful until you crash into the rocks. Seduction is the name of their game and sometimes we wish for the words to have meaning, but they don’t. So glad you could see through all the seduction, trying to get you sucked back in. Doesn’t it feel good to be strong in an assertive way?

Yesterday spath came over to get info for taxes and gave me the puppy dog eyes and said he missed me a few times and some lines about how I could stop the divorce because we should be together. Siren song.

What’s up with these people? Now that we’re on to them, they sound like they read from the same play book. They just don’t give up and they don’t get it.

skylar

Trimama,
I should be in bed but I had to respond to your post. I’m worried about you. Your spath sounds dangerous and it is at this stage that they get crazy when you stop responding to him. It has to be done very carefully. VERY VERY VERY CAREFULLY. He wants to know that he can still control you. If he can’t he may go into a rage, as mine did. You wouldn’t believe the hoops he jumped through to get me to respond the way he wanted. I would still talk to him on the phone but he needed to know that I would come when called, like a dog. I didn’t, so he had the crazy-husband-stealing-neigbor call the cops on me twice in one day. Then he called the suicide prevention line to get cops to come to my parents’ house.

Yes, I was purposely tormenting him by alternating NC and then contact at my choosing, because by that time I knew that his only goal was (and had always been) to hear me say, “how high?” when he said, “jump”.

At that time, I understood how painful their fear of abandonment is and I turned the tables on him to make him jump when I called/emailed him. They say that a little knowledge can be dangerous and it was. I was playing with fire because I had learned ONE trick: their fear of abandonment is TERRIFYING TO THEM.

My spath was not dangerous like yours is – he is different because he will take 20 years to plot and execute his revenge. Yours is more impulsive and could become violent.

So, what I want to emphasize with your spath is that you must make HIM think that HE is the one getting bored of YOU. That is why you have to be boring to him. Make yourself ugly, boring, pathetic… whatever it takes to make him lose interest, but don’t show any spine. If he asks for money, tell him you don’t have any. Don’t tell him “no”, because he cheated on you. Tell him you are having to pay for major car expenses or you have huge doctor bills because you are seeing a doc for depression. Or your rent was increased, or some other hardluck story to make yourself just a worthless person who isn’t good supply at all. During that time, show no emotion. Tell him you are numb because you are taking prozac – or something. Act like a zombie. Practice in front of a mirror. I’m not kidding. It’s your emotions he wants because to him, they are proof of his power to be the grand puppet master.

Trimama, it is at this time that you have to look at yourself and find out what he found attractive about you, then hide it.

I can already tell that you are a self-assured woman, who takes care of herself (you exercise) and your responsibilities (you work). I bet you dress very nicely too. (I used to) When you see him, you have to look frumpy and boring, hide your figure and don’t wear makeup.

Be careful, trimama, I’m sending protective thoughts to you.

(((hugs)))

Remember this: ALL OF THEIR SELF ESTEEM IS BASED ON THEIR BELIEF THAT THEY ARE PUPPET MASTERS.

Ox Drover

Trimama,

NO CONTACT!!!! NONE! ZIP! ZERO!!! NADA!!!!! Good for you, and you DO DESERVE A BIG PAT ON THE BACK!!!!!

I know how difficult it is not to fall for the con game they pull, and when they think they are losiing control of you they pull out all the stops….the “PITY ME……EEEEE Oh, pity poooooor me” and the “Oh, I have changeeeeeeed” or the “I love you, you are my soul mate” it is nothing but BAIT to lure you in, just like a fisherman puts a fat juicy worm on a hook—A HOOK that he will use to reel in the poor fish before he kills it.

That crack using drug addicted ex-convict without any money or a place to stay is ATTRACTIVE HOW? You want him WHY? He can offer you WHAT?

The sex was wonderful? Well, okay, so he is having sex with the old neighbor and sex with the young hot chick and who the hell knows who else and he’s likely to give you WHAT SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES….? (BTW I suggest you go to the STD clinic and get tested, even if you used condoms with him because they will not protect against everything.)

Good for picturing his “beautiful body” lying next to the neighbor lady….and she may have been a lonely old woman, but you know, she isn’t your friend either or she wouldn’t have done that.

Get away from these people, all of them, if you can…..start your life clean and FREE OF this kind of person…people who jump into bed with the first person who is interested, people who do drugs, people who have criminal records, people who are dishonest….free yourself not only of this man but ALL THAT HE REPRESENTS in the way of dishonesty and MEANNESS.

Not only save your literal LIFE, but make your life a GOOD LIFE, a MEANINGFUL LIFE with GOOD PEOPLE in it, honest and kind people. You deserve much better than someone who is a PIECE OF SHEET FLOATING IN A SEWER.

My prayers for your safety and happiness, trimama! (((hugs)))

super chic

trimama, I wish I had been able to read Oxy’s advice about 20 years ago,
I would have had a different life now.
Congrats on telling him no!!! I am proud of you.
I know it’s hard, but now you are building your strength.

You DO deserve someone wonderful !!!!! xoxoxo

Ox Drover

Dear Chic,

I wish Oxy had known about that advice 20-30-40 years ago, she would have done a lot better then too! LOL ROTFLMAO

super chic

Oxy, Yeah!!! LOL !!
xoxoxoxo

trimama

Much sincere thanks to all of you.
I hear—and heed—the concern.
I had not considered all of what I am reading here and am so thankful for your insight.
Yes, this man is impulsive, and spiteful.
I am thankful that he is also easily distracted, so though he may want to keep up his efforts to pull me back in, if a nice piece of ass walked by, he would be gone and on to another pursuit. And then there is also the need for crack, that further distracts and disables him from carrying out retribution.
Thank god.
Is safety an issue? Absolutely.
But fling a restraining order would only incite him. He would see it as a challenge to his territory and devise means to get around it. And we all know how easily that is achieved. I would be dead long before anyone could intervene.
Staying under his radar is the way to go…don’t come to his attention, as Skylar advises.
What was attractive about him, Ox? He is handsome and charming, with a beautiful body and a seductive baritone voice. But he is also very attentive in a way I had not experienced with other men. What I did not see is that he was reflecting me back to me. And I like me, so I found that nurturing….because I am nurturing.
And he was fun to be with….whatever activity we chose to do was filled with laughter and affection and fun.
I did not balance those experiences with the other, far more dark aspects of our relationship.
There was little if anything of value about US (as he says) and too much danger and unhealthiness.
I hear what you all are saying. I am getting stronger here, largely because of what I learn from you.

Ox Drover

Dear Trimama,

Good for you! It is important that you look to yourself to find what you want and provide it for yourself without falling for the “brass ring” that he holds out—-it is FAKE, it will turn green in your hand. It is not the real thing. We must not fall for the phony stuff they hold out as glittering jewels, it is all fake, and POISON.

It is like the apple held out to Snow White, it is beautiful but filled with poison. Only in this case, there is no way that a “prince” will find you to kiss you awake from the poison. The poison that they hold out actually kills you—physically or emotionally or all of the above.

You deserve something good in life—find it and hang on to it. Start with yourself. Love yourself. Do good things for you. Take care of yourself FIRST. You deserve the BEST!

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