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Most cheaters are amateurs; sociopaths are professionals

Lovefraud recently received a very nice e-mail from the editor of HowToDoThings.com, complimenting the information provided by Lovefraud. She suggested that an article from her website might be of interest to Lovefraud readers. It is called How To Recognize the Signs of Cheating Men.

I checked out the article. Now, I mean absolutely no disrespect to HowToDoThings.com, but the article describes cheating by mere amateurs, not sociopaths.

Signs of a cheating man

According to the article, all of the following should raise a woman’s suspicions that her guy might be cheating:

1. He improves his personal appearance.
2. He finds fault with you.
3. Your sex life changes.
4. He uses a new phone or other new technologies.
5. Your intuition tells you something is wrong.
6. His routine changes, or he has new interests.
7. His work or financial habits change.
8. You find evidence of another woman.

The key here is that something about the guy’s behavior is different. I’m sure this is the case if a guy who is reasonably normal, albeit bored or unhappy, strays. But it’s not the case with sociopaths.

For sociopaths, cheating is a way of life, so there is no change to notice.

Cheating by professionals

Sociopaths—both men and women—are professional cheaters, liars and manipulators. So let’s take a look at the list in the context of a sociopath.

1. There probably won’t be a change in personal appearance. Either they’re always obsessive about how they look, or they rely on their skills of seduction.

2. After initial flattery to get you hooked, a sociopath will start finding fault with you. In time, the sociopath blames you for being the source of all problems.

3. Sociopaths always have plenty of sexual tricks and incredible stamina, so they’ll continue to get sex from you, even if they’re getting it from someone else.

4. A new phone is simply another new toy, and sociopaths love toys. In fact, they’ll get you to buy the toys.

5. Your intuition has probably always been telling you something is wrong. But sociopaths have so many glib explanations that you no longer trust your own perceptions.

6. Sociopaths are always coming and going, and they’re always starting something new. After awhile, you accept this as normal.

7. A sociopath is always irresponsible. Jobs and money just disappear. This, too, becomes normal.

8. When you find direct evidence of cheating, the sociopath either explains it away, or accuses you of being paranoid.

The problem about being involved with a sociopath is that he or she is always erratic, and you are always off balance. So it’s difficult to see the signs of cheating, especially as the sociopath continues to profess his or her love and concern for you.

In fact, you may never find out the extent of the cheating until the sociopath discards you. Only then, when the sociopath no longer bothers to spin a web of deceit, might you find out what was really going on.


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59 Comments on "Most cheaters are amateurs; sociopaths are professionals"

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Donna, you are right. Unless you have been involved with a sociopath, you have no idea of the difference between an amateur and a pro. When I try to talk to people, they always treat me as if I “need to get a life”. They can’t understand why it is so hard to move on after an encounter. When I read many of the post, it is as if I wrote them myself. I can relate to all of the characteristics above, especially #4. My ex would rather go without food than give up his phone (and he always got me to pay the bill)! It is unbelievable how many sociopaths are lurking out there. Thank you for your website and keep up the good job.

I am learning that “my story” is really for people who already understand. I find it hard to explain the manipulation to anyone else. If I go to great lengths to explain all that happened, I feel vulnerable to judgement and I don’t like it.

Recently, I was assisting a friend of mine who is a relationship coach at one of her retreats. She asked me to talk about the signs of a dangerous partner as she was concerned that 2 of her clients were dealing with partners that were dispalying some personality disorder issues. I read my list that I had carefully written and felt really good about my contribution until someone asked, “Who would put up with that?”

At that point, I just burst into tears. No one knew that the things I read had happened to me except my friend. I felt so vulnerable. I felt judged. I felt like I gave away my power. I knew it sounded absurd when I described the signs.

I find it impossible to describe the manipulation in a way that a person can get it unless they have been though it.

As far as “getting a life”… well, I believe that this will always be a part of me. I don’t feel terrorized but I am cautious now, I check out people’s stories. I am more careful. It was about time.. I was way too trusting.

Anyway, thanks for all the great essays here. I feel understood here and that helps tremndously.

Aloha… E.R.

The fear of being judged is a big one and it’s easier to keep things and the relationship to yourself because you feel that if you can just give it a little longer, if you can just get clarity, you’ll be able to handle it. In the meantime you lose focus and your attention for important details in your own life, as well as for familyand friends who are really there for you. All in the name of ‘love’ and passion and being a trusting and ‘good person.’ I recently flared up at a boss who really wasn’t that bad – I had my issues about that job but it wasn’t in my best interest to give my notice in the heat of a moment – and I know it was partially due to the inner frustration and low-grade depression I’d felt that week over this dysfunctional relationship with someone I can’t pin down. And it’s hard to say to the world “excuse me, I’m really a pretty together person normally, but I have become used to being abused – and I’m feeling really crazy, could I please have a time-out? I want to move on now and am in the process and am also grateful for this website.

Hello Persephone7,

Isn’t it strange how they permeate our thoughts?

I was absolutely consumed with thoughts of the Bad Man and I thought I would never move on. That was as recent as April of this year. But, I feel totally different now.

I spent 100s of hours trying to figure him out. Every time I received an email from him, I would lose two nights of sleep thinking about it and arguing with him in my head all night.

Nothing has helped me more than this site and all the reading I have done about Personality Disorders. Now I understand EVERYTHING that happened. It ALL fits into the diagnostic criteria I have read over and over in different books. There was not one authentic moment in that relationship. How sad.

Now that I know it was all smoke and mirrors, it’s easier to let go. And yes, we had the hot sex and all that. It’s just part of the disorder and it’s fake too. Too bad.

Anyway, it sounds like you are getting on the right track. My story is pretty bad but I think there are women here that have gone through worse. Listen to what they say. It will get better.

A friend of mine went through something similar to me and she declared for herself “THE YEAR OF ME!” If that sounds nice, maybe you can do that for yourself.

I wish you all the best in healing this hole in your heart.

I understand.

Aloha… E.R.

Donna – you are so right. People simply do not get it about sociopaths.

Recently, due to the Megan Meier/ MySpace Suicide story we have had people come to our site and say “but you guys are ADULTS! You should know better!”

Know better about what? Something you can’t see or feel or hear? How is anyone supposed to know they are being emotionally raped or defrauded until it happens?

And these people also miss the point about manipulation & mind control. These guys are PROS!

I, too, was the object of scorn because of what I endured. I liken my situation to emotional rape. I was needy and the men, first my husband then a man who called us friends, apparently saw me as an easy target. I always felt that my love was folded, stapled, mutilated, and thrown back in my face. I always thought love begat love. Never in my life did I think that someone would actually fake illnesses, sex, and all the other emotions. to gain, what, I never really knew. I’ve found the only real emotion most of them emit, is anger. That is real. Their heart has so much garbage in it, and when they are given love that is real, they tear it to shreds.

I have a sister who hasn’t spoken to me for over 3 years, because she said that maybe some people create their own hell. Meaning me. She went on to tell me what a selfish, self centered person I was. I tried to explain to her how dysfunctional my marriage had been. Because she didn’t see it first hand, she won’t believe it. She formed an opinion based on nothing other than her own mind. So many can’t understand why we just can’t see through them. It’s because they are good. They use their wiles to trap you and gain your trust. They tell you what they think you want to hear. Once they are sure they have you, the rest is easy for them. Until we finally reach a breaking point and just can’t take any more of the abuse or as in my case, I had someone come into my life and inform me I was being abused.

Someone with normal boundaries and emotions, won’t treat a person like I was treated. Devalued, belittled, disrespected, to the point where my spirit was crushed. I figured I was the most unlovable person God ever created. How could someone use me for sex, which I thought was great, but hate me otherwise? Nothing was consistent. But those skeptics out here, thought me too gullible. That wasn’t the case. These men had a hidden agenda, and I served their purpose. I have backed away from the ones in my life who exude negative energy. I refuse to be sucked into that quagmire again. I lived too many years with never knowing who he would be today and now that I have taken back what I was robbed of, I won’t go there again. But I am much wiser than before. My mind is more settled. Yes, I was duped. But I still came out a winner, because I wasn’t completely broken. Crushed,yes. But not broken. I, through so many of these blogs, know even more what to look for, that I won’t allow anyone else to do that again. As I reflect, had I been aware, the signs were there from the get go. I just thought a man was a man. Had no idea they were so demented. The outside looked so good. How could the inside be so messed up? Now I know the rest of the story, to quote.

fighter…….
the women sociopaths are Pros as well………
some even more dangerous……in a different , more deceptive way……….
both men and female psychopaths are not good……..
dont dance with them….no, not for a min.
the mind control ? omg.
to me, i learned it like this…..
the red flags are like the odor you smell when yu enter a strangers house for the first time……

the longer you stay, the more desensitized you become to the odor ……
so it is with Ps…Ns….Ss.
in the begining, before they have time to gather all their INFO from you to put together a character that will HOOK you…you can SEE ……..

i believe that THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO ESCAPE….
before we are charmed and harmed……….before we are desensitized by the ambient abuse……….before we cant smell the odor any longer and we stay…
the opportunity is in the beginning….and i already trusted myself and saed myself from another filet of my soul.

Ps can smell vulnerability and a wounded heart and soul like a shark can smell blood…..
after my experience with my 5 yr long N relationship…i was hurting….but i was now educated….and low and behold the freaks …Ps…Ns whatever that crawled out from under rocks but i trusted my senses…

since my P experience, i like to think i have new ANTI-VIRUS P software installed inside me now……….and NOW when im alerted…i have the opportunity to LISTEN TO MY GUT……and take the action that i wish i had taken before – had i only known THEN, what i know now,

thanks everyone – thanks Lovefraud – from a 45yr oldMale who was in a 5 yr relationship with a female P

B…im sorry……..i did my best………with what i had, what i knew…and whyo i was at the time. – S

Phoenix

p.s.
B was her boy that was 7 when i met him – i’ll miss him – i was made to be the bad guy,and was ousted like turning off a TV or changing its channel – just like that…. i was gone.
God only knows wht she said to him, but i can fill in the gaps from what i HAVE sen and heard.

as imentioned up ABOVE…in the beginning is when you can ‘smell’ the odor…or rather SEE THE RED FLAGS….i let them slide….didnt know the TRUE INTERPRETATION TO THOSE particular signs were………but i do now….and i just recently spared myself another ‘dancing’ lesson.

so glad i listened to my gut this time….and took action……..
no contact IS the only way…….. ignore them……..dont be drawn into interacting with them…….thats wat they want.

Phoenix

Absolutely true! I didn’t find out what was really happening during our marriage until after he left me. I did find out about one during the marriage and he bawled his eyes out, but told me he couldn’t explain to me his motivations or thinking concerning why or how he did it. “The opportunity was just there”.

He had/has ZERO conscience.

Of course there were things I suspected-

Condoms in his glovebox, flirtatious text messages, hard core porn, a USED condom in our bathroom trash can, internet cookies filling in the search bar for me, the list goes on.

It took me so long trying to figure out how I let it go on. But for every question I asked there was a ready explanation. I’m not sure it was even premeditated. He was just that good, lies flowed naturally. Lies I couldn’t fault or counter-argue. His facade was air tight. I didn’t want to be the bickering, suspicious, jealous wife…and I refused to be that without real proof.

So I found out that over a year and nine month marriage, he cheated on me over 15 times (real number will never be known), he did drugs, and got drunk frequently when he told me he had stopped drinking. Nothing changed in bed, it just became less frequent. He said, “It’s like that book What to Expect When Your Expecting says…sometimes the father’s drive diminishes due to hormones too”. This was around the time my daughter was a few months old. It still amazes me on how he had the time to do all that he did without me knowing. What ambition it must have taken to live that life! And all the while I was at home calling the police station to make sure he wasn’t in a wreck, and crying my eyes out, caring for OUR newborn and he didn’t care one bit.

I will just say I am so grateful to have finally “figured” him out! I have such a peace of mind knowing that it is NOT my fault, and that because I was so fooled and manipulated does not make me a foolish person, just unfortunate.

They enjoy the deception. It gives them a sense of power and control Sick freaks!

This is all so horribly familiar. Psychopaths are pros, that’s for sure. I can relate to the concept of emotional rape. I feel like he rummaged around in my life and my emotions, coldly using what suited him and trampling casually over what he discarded once he was done. The sense of violation is acute and profound.

Wow… I am speechless. See I never expected the cheating and even after everything he has done I think I am still in denial about it. Everything listed fits. This helped only reinforce my no contact. Thank you for this post.

Trinity: You are at the beginning of your healing journey … you just got hit with a big wave of TRUTH to what your EX is really all about … they mask he/she wore slipped and you got a big dose of reality … even though it knocked you on your butt and took your breath away, can’t sleep, are obsessing over your situation with your EX, the what went wrong? What did I do? What didn’t I do? What could I do? … and the rest of the flood of emotions that will come your way. Remember … this is just the beginning of your healing journey and what you are feeling (as well as what we all felt and are still feeling and working through) is the beginning of your healing journey.

Stay with us as you heal along with the rest of us on LF … we are all in this together and the TRUTH will set you free as it is doing for all of us. We will help you as you untangle the webs of deceit that he/she so cleverly trapped you in.

Peace to your heart and soul as you travel this road to healing.

OK I have been counceled in the error of my technique!:)~

Baby steps! instead of BLUNT REALITY works for the masses!

I promise to try to be Pre-school teacher instead of A Proffesor :)~

LOVE jere

I found the link to High Conflict INST. very enlightening espcially for the Parents dealing with Xs and Family members I recamend checking it out! LOVE jere

It is always like reading my own story all over again!

Toys , Clothes ,doing without food ,Toys , PHONE , Bills , CAR , Legal obligations , Fines , responceabilities , accountability , Other people, USE ,USE ,USE USE, USE !

Another thing I have noticed is there does’nt seem to be ANY difference Between Them Male/Female , child /Adult , they all seem Rotten to the core! The only Difference is the intelegence level !* Say the learning curve ! The frigging HOOK /Trance seems the same!

The magnatisum of looking in that Mirrior and seeing what ( we ) want ! And Then putting up with what others can’t even Imagin?! And Fathoming that an anti-relationship is something ( we ) Want????????? LOVE jere

118.

I’m new to LoveBlog ”“ although I’ve subscribed for a few years (been with him for 5) and have read much of the content that came thru my email. I think I always new there was a problem with him, but could I really call it being a sociopath?

He was the first to say I love you. Met him online- he was married ”“ i didn’t want anything to do with that but was charmed by him, feeling the need to help him “take control, be happy ”“ life is short” He told me he loved me with the first month. I was shocked, but charmed. He left her within a year. Moved into his own place and had custody of his two boys.

Stayed with him for 5 years. Recently broke it off with him (for the 100th time) but plan on staying strong this time. Hoping to. No contact is the key I think as he no longer has my number so I’m in the driver’s seat now. Feels good. Or does it?

But as I sit here typing this I wonder was it really ME? and what HAPPENED? 5 years. I loved him and will love him forever. He never took any money from me ”“ he helped me. Well, to the point of it being only “good enough” for the most part. I got the smallest piece of the pie. ” But he loved my kids too. These are not signs of a sociopath right? ? ?

But then there was the other side of him too. The person that cheated on me many times in the first two years of our relationship {but i’m different now, i love you, i’m not that man anymore} The first time I will never forget ”“ we were having issues because of a personal thing, and he declared his love for me so much that he wanted to go to counseling. The next morning, full of love, i left very early to drive the 50 miles to see him ”“ only to find another woman in his bed with him. I punched him in the nose ”“ something i have never done to someone ”“ but the pain of seeing his cold uncaring face just brought it out. I felt horrible, but somehow justified. That’s not me, I thought. What is happening?

But over and over I caught him in lies ”“ for all the years to follow the initial cheating. There were signs everywhere, internet sites for dating and sex were shown to be visited on his computer {but it was my teenage son not me} then why not get a profile for yourself for the computer to PROVE it’s not you? never happened.

Then all the sex phone calls ”“ soooooo many of them. {we were broke up or having trouble} i hear him say. This is true ”“ but when it’s already a huge sore spot in my heart to even KNOW that you have called sex lines {only to talk to people I was lonely} he says to me in my head again ”“ WHY? You loved me. You said you didn’t do that anymore. You even gave me your phone bill to prove it.

But what did I find? In one month just recently there were 23 mysterious phone calls made to numbers that are now ALL disconnected. All the same number 734-444-2xxx just the last three digits are different. 23 phone calls in one month ”“ most from 20 min long to 45. But he didn’t make the calls and has no idea {lets call the phone company and ask them ”“ he says ”“ and he supposedly does, only to tell me they have no idea and can’t give him ANY information ”“ again his son must have done it} hmmm strange. Well OK lets see what happens NEXT month on next months bill.

a few days before the bill arrives we are arguing about god knows what ”“ I’m going down there on a sat. night to visit him (he is 50 miles from me) on the way down i start getting texts from his friends phone (his died and it truly had) messages saying “he’s done with you” “don’t come down here” “he won’t come home if you are there” WTH? but the girl who is sending me the messages has no idea who was sending them, but it surely was not her ”“ and i feel he fails to stick up for me ”“ still befriending them, saying it was not them. Well WHO was it then? ??? never found that one out.

So anyway after that happens I’m ready to read the next bill”..what? no access? no bill? {well we broke up and I was mad so I canceled it} hmmm ok yes we were broke up/fighting as usual but you KNEW i was waiting to see it to COMPARE it to the last bill with all those wierd numbers on it. Damn, now I have to wait till next month (to decide if he is still lying or not)

OK next bill comes, he still is telling me he is changed and doesnt call livelinks, redhotdateline, vibeline or whatever other numbers he calls {just to talk } I get the bill ”“ first checking for those wierd 734 numbers ”“ still tons of them, all long periods of time, all now disconnected. ???? what is this? {must be a scam from someone at the phone company calling these numbers and putting them on my bill he says} huh? possible? maybe- I try to believe him, want to believe him. But he still tells me, he is changed now and was willing and did whatever was in his power to prove he wanted to get to the bottom of it all too, so he said anyway.

I let it go for a few days. Sitting in limbo stay/go/stay/go. I love him. I’ve been with him 5 years. We were looking at rings, picked one out a year ago ”“ but when he had the extra money he bought a new boat instead. {for US babe. something to do as a FAMILY} yes, you are right how could I be so selfish to want a ring after all these years to show your commitment and love for me. How SELFISH I was!

A few days later ”“ back to investigating the bill. I’ve spent many hours, days, month investigating his behavior. Finding fling.com sex sites that he joined ”“ it showed up on his email account which he ALSO freely gave me access too. {but babe it wasn’t ME it must have been my son, or that DAMN site just joined me as a member without my knowledge!!} he proceeds to write them a nasty email, sure to forward it also to me, about how can they do this ? join him without his knowledge? he lost a great woman because of it! take me off! he demands to the fling.com people. They delete his account, thanking him for joining”.for JOINING?

so the investigation continues. I’ve become quite good at it ”“ seeing the signs and red flags. Sad that I spend time doing things as this, instead of something for me, instead of being happy and content”. What????? What is that? I call the numbers. SEX LINES Blatently THERE ON THE PHONE BILL ”“ not just the 734 numbers BUT SEX LINES AGAIN the same ones as before???? I call him WTF? i say ”“ you said you didn’t do this anymore??? {but babe we were broke up} UG yes, we were but we also were still seeing each other, still talking every day, still sleeping together. Because I was waiting ”“ waiting for the next bill to prove that he was true. That he could be trusted.

I asked him ”“ why did you call those numbers knowing the chance was there I would see them? {we were broke up. I was lonely. I forgot I even called them. It means nothing to me} frustrated, broken, bruised and sad ”“ i change my phone number. I try and let go. He emails me how much he loves me, how it’s “me and you kid forever”, how much he misses me and the kids ”“ how much he has changed. Changed? it was just three weeks ago that you called those numbers AGAIN. Which also btw would lead me to believe that those OTHER strange 734 numbers were ALSO sex lines ”“ but ones that could not be tracked or something ”“ maybe escorts even. But when I told him that he just said he had no idea. Maybe he got better over the years for covering his tracks. But why so blatentlys call more sexlines when you KNOW I’m gonna look. You PAID extra so I COULD look ”“ to prove your innocence. Felt like a huge slap in the face to me. but again, somehow it was MY fault, because i broke up with him, because i didn’t trust him ”“ gee do I see a pattern here?

So it’s only been a week or two. I have seen him once or twice and talked to him. I’m trying to break free. I’m doing MUCH better really ”“ than I used to be. Every day that I don’t talk to him makes it {a little} easier. But then comes that point that I question myself”

“am I the one who is crazy” “did I jump to inconclusive conclusions???” Am I over-reacting—is this sociopathic behavoir? any comments would be so appreciated ”“ i need to keep focus and it’s so easy to lose focus when you are alone and know nothing else but this behavoir for the last 5 years.

P.S. He is an alcoholic. or was. That’s something he says he has changed as well, because I brought lite to the problem. If he is so CHANGED then why don’t I feel any change?

They call sex chat lines because they want to….and they can. Please check out the marriedtoasexaddict website. Dancing Dick (ex-liar-cheater-pervert)….racked up hundreds of dollars in “dial-a-whore telephone bills ….when we couldn’t afford diapers for our toddler….and another baby was on the way. It never stopped- he just learned to hide it better. With the rise of the internet- he got even worse. They are monsters……with no ability to feel empathy.

CountryGirl – He does not call the sex lines because he is lonely. he calls them because he want’s phone sex and/or a hook-up. Doesnt matter if he is a sociopath or not, he is toxic and has a huge sex addiction. He is stringing you along. He sounds like a sociopath to me but who care’s, he gonna bring something home to you that you can’t get rid of. Stay no contact. And we all understand that big feeling of loss that you have but it’s your dream’s he stole from you and used to manipulate you. Hang tuff. Study your past. Live in the present. prepare for the future. Welcome to lovefraud.

‘Hang tuff. Study your past. Live in the present. prepare for the future.”

GREAT ADVICE!!!!

miss erin that is my new cheer for us survivors…

…..AND LAUGH OFTEN!! 🙂

(There is healing in laughter….I truly believe this.)

To countrygirl1967: about your situation

I too experienced a whack of sex phone calls on OUR bill during the early stages of our marriage. When I questioned him, he said that it was his father(who was living with us at the time) and said that he would pay for it through company expenses. My ex worked out of town quite a bit, and at one time, he asked me to set up a cell account for him, so it was in my name. At one point in our marriage, he disappeared for 5 days. I had no idea where he was. I couldn’t sleep, eat or function properly, and when he finally did call, he said he was on a trip with a co-worker. It turned out to be his girlfriend. After I confronted him about the affair, I forgave him right away, in hopes that our young family could stay together. The more that I learned about his erratic behaviour the more abusive he became. He had opened up separate banking accounts, credit cards and was always going to meetings out of town ,stopped putting his paycheque into our joint account, (which left me with no money),I would be stuck at home with no money while he was away. I tracked many escapades to escort ladies by tracking his phone calls on his cell. He told me that it was none of my business. When working out of town he also had a “new” friend as he called her. She turned out to be a stripper.
I am not together with him anymore, but let me tell you, it has been extremely difficult having to deal with him as we have children together. I have been arrested for something I didn’t do, I have been stalked, I have had my home broken into, items stolen that I knew were his. I have not received sufficient support in years. He managed to “quit” his job (he said he got laid off), he is working under the table and is making a lot of money, and – yes- he has managed to drag out our divorce proceedings. He has tried to do many things such as buy groceries for me and drop them off in front of our children and simultaneously not provide support. Over the period of our separation he has used our son and managed to turn him against me and had convinced him to move in with him.

Even with all this turmoil, I know for sure that I had the right thing in leaving. I no longer lay awake at night, wondering, questioning myself if I have done the right thing. I have trusted my instincts and realize that his actions do NOT represent true love. At the time, he was so crafty in having me think that I have done something wrong. This would in turn take away more of my self-esteem – the very little I had left.

This is only a condensed version of what I have experienced.

My advice is to concentrate on your happiness. As each day passes you will become stronger and realize that it is not you but rather HIM that had created this turmoil in your life. It is your time now to focus your time and your energy on yourself. I also found that by letting myself feel each emotion as they came day after day, the anger and the hurt eventually subsided and I was able to replace those emotions with more positive ones.

I am new to lovefraud and have learned to cut off any contact with him. I just need some advice on how to deal with him regarding our children as he has and is manipulating them as well.

BE STRONG, STAY STRONG, GET STRONGER

With mine it was internet sex. He blamed the really raunchy websites and the college girl websites on his son (who hadn’t even been in his house for three months!) OK, I always kind of knew he had some sites he liked to go see, but I started to discover that he was really getting into some very very perverse stuff. I confronted him on it, and he said “now you know my deepest darkest secret.”

Well, I’ll tell ya: unfortunately, I may have figured out some deeper and darker secrets, which is why I”m scared of the guy.

But even now, as I’m NC and have that Protection Order against him, I waver. In my weaker moments, I wonder of there’s a glimmer of hope that he still loves me!

CountryGirl, I only went back once, and it was oh, so painful. But I know the draw of the addiction. PLEASE, if you want to feel good about yourself, stay away. He’ll survive! Unfortunately, he’ll find someone else, way too quickly for your comfort.

The problem is: those of us who love men and women like this love being in love; we love the passion and adventure, and when we pull away, well, we don’t think we’ll ever have the good times we had with that person again.

My suggestion: take a trip. Go somewhere you always wanted to go. Take a good friend! There’s much passion and adventure to be found in just discovering another culture.

have a hug, be strong, and yes yes yes I agree with Hens

I was watching the travel chanel today…..
I am thinking I should use my air miles to go to CHILE!
That would certainly give me a new perspective…..
🙂

I hear the food in Chile is wonderful. Wine is too. Wanna go?
I actually am thinking about China and Taiwan. Or Greece.

I’m in!
That’s my problem……no travel partner……and I don’t want to take the kids…..
I’d love to have a travel bud….Athough, I’d be willing to go alone too…..WHY NOT!

The kids will be gone this weekend….and I’m thinking a nice getaway would be nice……
Just not sure where i’d go…..this is the problem becoming a hermit….you become used to being at home…..

EB, come to Denver!

My trip to Jamaica this year has been foiled by a demanding Siamese. He went into renal failure and I finally made the hard decision to have him euthanized on Friday. He died at home in my arms. I’m pretty devastated. If he didn’t want me to go to Jamaica, he should have just asked. I would have stayed home with him instead. I would have done anything for him. I miss him so much. 🙁

Star I am so sorry your putter cat has died. i have had to put down pets. But if they had a good long life we did a good job and have many good memorys of them. What was his name? I will always remember Willie and JuneBug, two of my weiners that are long gone….

miss erin I will go to chile with ya – send me a ticket…

Oh, Stargazer, sooo sorry about the Siamese. My cats keep me sane!

Perhaps we should do a LoveFraud field trip. I suspect we’d discover we’re all pretty cool, compassionate people, most of whom need cat care.
😉

Star:
I’m sorry about your kitty……
It’ll be tears for you for a bit. Animals are such great unconditional lovers!!! I don’t know what the world would be without them! They teach, those of us willing to learn so very much…..
I’m sorrry Star.

When we had to put down our Allie gals (dog), it was so very miserable…..
I felt like a spath that day…..she had a stroke in the night and we called the mobile vet to come over….it was all very compassionate and we were with her, loving her til the end…..
I had a big job to do that afternoon…..and I couldn’t blow it off…NO WAY….it was with our governor and other politicians and rebuilding a business….ya don’t blow those dudes off!
My oldest was working with me that day……and he looked at me after we buried allie and said….I hope you don’t think we are working today. I said….Um, yes, we have no choice…..we have 2 hours to collect ourselves…..these people have seen enough of our drama and we are going to go and shine as if nothing was going on in our personal lives…..
It was so very hard to pull it together…..but we did…..
After the event, about a week…..a good friend and very invaluable supporter of me during this time called (she was at the event)….to tell me what a neat kid my oldest is……and what a great job he did. Then we got to talking and she asked about the dog….I told her she passed…and it came out when…..she was shocked!
Talk about compartmentalizing things…..my eldest learned this lesson that night!

And now we have OH mY GOLLY…..HOLLY.
And unfortunatley….I think she’d eat cats…..
We just had the coyotes howling in the yard…..I think she wanted to welcome them with chocolate! Dummy.
I think they are denning out near the ‘paintcans’…with their pups.
They have no idea how valuable they are!!!
🙂
Keep your chin up Star…..Keep those purrrsss and loves close in your heart.

Let’s go world tramping together…

Say the word! I’m in!

Stargazer, so very sorry to hear about your cat, is he the little love bug that used to crawl into your shirt? I remember we were all discussing the snakes one night and you mentioned your cat was the one crawling up your shirt, not the snake! My cat drools, so that wouldn’t work out too good. You are in my thoughts my dear.

EB, I’d like to be a tramp around the world, is that wrong? LOL

Star,
I am so sorry about your kitty. It is so difficult….Your in my thoughts.

Shabby:
You can be whatever you want to be……the world is your ‘truck’ darlen!

Sounds good to me!

I had an interesting conversation with a 85 year old woman last night…..a sassy old gal at that!
We were talking about her G. kids and behaviors and teen stuff……
When all of a sudden she blurted out that she’d been celebate for 45 years!
NOW….what was I supposed to do with that? Relate it to the G. kids…..
Anyways…..I just listened…..she said….it was the best decision she ever consciously made…..
Of course, going on several years myself…and NOT consciously…..(I just haven’t had anyone to turn down)…..I thought…..hmmmmmm 45 years!!!! SHIT!

She told me how uncomplicated it has made her life….and once she got past the raging hormone phase….she was quite allright with it…..she has dated….but she wasnt’ interested in being their play thing…..she said if she had met a man who she felt would stick around…then she would have ‘given it up’…..but she didn’t want to go around feeling bad about herself…..she did it twice after her divorce…..and she didn’t like how they played her…..
So celebacy it was!

I think I would rather tramp around the world…..maybe at least come across those 2 ‘testers’…..to convince me celebacy was the way for me at this point!

🙂

one/joy_step_at_a_time

(((STAR)))

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((STAR))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((STAR))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((STAR)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

i am so sorry my girl.

check out angel on my shoulders. i was there years ago, and it was extremely wonderful. like here.

one step

one/joy_step_at_a_time

HENS: we gotta make t shirts

‘Hang tuff. Study your past. Live in the present. prepare for the future. ‘

one/joy_step_at_a_time

and if y’all are going to chile, I’m in.

Now, who’s buying the tickets?

onestep – i think you and I are in the same boat – the closest thing we will get to Chile is a can of Wolf Brand Chili – As for the T- Shirts? I will stick with my favorite T-shirt that says ” I am confused”

one/joy_step_at_a_time

okay, we can make one that says, ‘ Hens is confused’.

and i don’t want nothin’ to do wit boats! 🙂

the idea of sitting down in the living room with a can of chili….instead of being in the sun speakin’ spanish is ’nuff to make me sad.

Thank you to the women that posted in response to my story. I feel like I so desperately need someone else to know the details to confirm that it’s him and not me. So many times he has a way of having just the right excuse to give me enough doubt that I feel maybe I am wrong. Somehow my actions caused his actions. I find it so hard to stay away form him, I love him after all. It just blows my mind the things that he does to me!

It’s not as simple as stealing money, or stalking me or stuff like that. It’s stuff like when I didn’t want to see him for valentine’s day weekend (well actually I did want to see him, but I was waiting for him to give me a reason to see him) anyway there were reasons why I pushed him away and I wanted him to prove to me that he would do right. ANyway on that weekend I got text messages from his phone from a girl he cheated on me with. I was very upset to say the least, this was totally opposite of my idea that maybe he would “blow my doors off” this weekend like he always promised he would – to prove his love to me. Well she even called me from his phone telling me that there is nothing between them anymore and that if I wasn’t such a “nut case” I could be with them all hanging out too. When I tried to call him to ask him why he let her call me at all – he never answered the phone. They were at the bar all together as a group (all a clique that she is also part of ) (o and I do believe the alcohol also plays a part in his behavoir) Well in the end he did call me at 1am but he was obviously drunk and I didn’t answer the phone.

The next day I happen to Facebook the girl and she had posted at 2am “brad spooning me and me spooning jen……” Supposedly her friend was breaking up with her b/f and very distraught and upset (also another friend of his) and she asked to spend the night – well her friend was this girl that he had cheated on me with! So anyway he had let the two girls spend the night IN HIS BED. He swore nothing happened, but he never told me about it before hand – he only admitted it because the girl put it on her facebook page.

I told him that was it – that I can’t be around these people he hangs out with especially when it includes her. I told him I felt uncomfortable that he was with her when I was not around. I went down to see him this past weekend for god knows what reason – and when we went to breakfast the next day SHE was there at the restaurant! It was only a coincidence but again I was uncomfortable. I knew that in his town this happened a lot and I live 50 miles away from him. Far enough to not really EVER know what was really going on down there.

He swore to be honest with me from now on and he did tell me that she called him a few times and once even at 2am ! I was happy that he told me – thinking how honest he is now being – but unhappy for two reasons

1. why the hell is she still calling him and why is he allowing it? supposedly he said her mother was dying and she needed someone to talk to about it at 2am Yea Right

2. unhappy also because i have this sinking feeling in my stomach that perhaps he was telling me only to cover his own tracks – in case i found out on my own that she called him at 2am – he already had his excuse in place.

Also she has stopped over his house in the past week “with another friend” that is also a middle aged man like himself and who is also “cuddling” and hanging out with this girl, who is 25! We are in our 40’s!

The other day I happen to be cleaning out some office stuff and noticed her number on a piece of paper with lots of other numbers on it. It was my handwriting – and it was a list of suspicious phone numbers I had found on his phone a few months back. I called him and reminded him that I told him if I catch him in another lie I would have to leave him. So I asked him DID YOU TALK TO HER A LOT BEFORE THE INCIDENT WHERE SHE SPENT THE NIGHT ON FEB 12 VALENTINES DAY WEEKEND??? he said no he didn’t think so I said are you sure? because I found her number on this list from your phone bill a few months back and I’m going to check the bill. He gave me the password to check it . Which of course I did. I found 8 either text messages or phone calls up to three weeks prior to the “sleeping over” incident. I told him. He said he didn’t recall it but yes it could be because of course he TOLD me she had texted him. ???? he seems to just slightly change the story to his behalf.

So here I am again – when I was out for two weeks almost – back into the web of lies he tells and trying to always get concrete proof of his lies so that I can finally justify leaving. I told him tho that I was done with him (I ‘ve said that many times before ) he said that I had no reason to be so upset because he told me that she prob texted him (he doesn’t remember why) but I feel why can’t he just CUT ALL TIES with this woman if it makes me so uncomfortable?????

Dear Country girl,

What do you NEED IN THE WAY OF “PROOF?” My goodness woman, do you want a video of him having sex with someone before you kick him to the curb?

Maybe even that wouldn’t work and you’d want to see the action live before you kicked him to the curb!

He is playing you, she is jplaying you and they had a 3-way and they are all playing you. I know it hurts, but you deserve better than this creep! ((((Hugs)))))

This thread is really hitting home for me.

I feel like it has been very difficult to stop trying to bargain to have back the fantasy that I thought was our life together. In the last couple of weeks, it has helped me to all but live on this site and read the stories and the articles and to use all of the resources I could get my hands on.

Soon a shopping trip for the books!

I was happy with what I thought my life was. I was stunned when I started to uncover what was really going on right under my nose! 16 active dating profiles, literally hundreds of approaches over email and a few hot prospects.

This guy was a real salesman and his business was women!

Its hard to pop the bubble. Seems that the intellectual understanding about what is the right thing comes first but that the emotional support for what is right comes later through a slower process.

Accepting that he was not only cheating, but very seriously intent on it required that I accept it was real and that it would be a very serious impediment to any future because this wasn’t the kind of behavior he should have been conducting as a newly wed and he’d obviously been at it just that way for a while.

To me it came down to asking what would he have to do in order for me to believe any promise I could anticipate?

The way I looked at it was : 1). Could he tell me that there was a reason for it? No, because I already knew he lied and therefore no worlds from his lips would suffice.
2). Could anyone else tell me? No, why would I believe them if I couldn’t believe him?
3). That the only way would be for him to LIVE IT DOWN and that would mean a lot of time from me to double check everything he said or did.

Ultimately, I decided that’s not the life I want to live. It would put me in the position of being a nag and a mommy which in turn would justify his acting out.

I just came to see the whole thing as a vicious cycle with nothing in it but a downward spiral for me.

So as hard as it was to act from intllect before my emotions caught up, I started following the advice from people here. No Contact, No kidding. And I called an attorney to begin the process of ending our legal relationship.

In time, the emotions come to the place where I acknowledge that it hurts to be embarrassed and humiliated and decieved and that eventually, this will pass. And I find myself to be increasingly more at peace than I was during the time i was in contact with him and being invited to pretend like he wasn’t in jail and every thing is normal.

Because, its not.

One of my favorite characters in the movies was Scarlett O’Hara’s Mammie in the movie Gone With the Wind. I am reminded of her stalwartness when in the scene where Scarlett is preparing for a visit to Atlanta Mammie says :
“It ain’t fittin, it ain’t fittin, it jes ain’t fittin”!

I listen to that voice inside the back of my head and go on. One day, one step at a time.

I don’t know where I’d be or what might have turned out different if I didn’t end up here, but that is neither here nor there because I’m here now and LF has made a difference for me as I went through the process.

If my story, or just knowing that I’m here helps you in any way, then I am gladder still to be here and part of the ongoing process of recovery from this experience.

Dear LF peeps!

Whoever is going through all the old essays, I LOVE IT! I keep finding my very old comments and I can see how far I have grown. Above I said I felt vulnerable and judged when I tried to share my story but now I feel empowered by what I learned and how it might help others.

Cool…. it was worth the ride!

Aloha

P.S. Not to say I don’t have work to do… always a work in progress. :O)

Dear Aloha,

I second the sentiments there, going back through the old articles and rereading some of my posts! Yea, the healing is a JOURNEY, not a destination. Sometimes we BACK TRACK TOO or get off the road into the SWAMP of DESPAIR (been there recently) but when we find ourselves mired down in the swamp, or looking up from the bottom of a hole we have fallen into we just have to climb back up to the ROAD and keep on trucking!

Having friends here who don’t judge you for falling, or for back tracking is a good thing. When I had my melt down in December and January I started to NOT post it here cause I didn’t want people to “know” or think badly of me, I actually felt somewhat ASHAMED of melting down, but you know, at the same time, I realized that EVERYONE melts down once in a while and that me “pretending ” here that I don’t is FALSE and I can’t be anything LESS THAN 100% HONEST with my “LF peeps” as Janie would say!

Sure, I WISH I was always handling things well, but I don’t always–NO ONE does—we all make mistakes and are in denial sometimes, no matter how WELL we do MOST of the time. MOST of the timem I am DOING GREAT! But I have my MOMENTS! when my world still falls apart and I crash. But less often and for shorter periods of time, and I am LEARNING, and continue to learn! I’m still a dingy old bat with a twisted sense of humor, Henry calls me his “twisted sister” LOL but I know that I am OK, I WILL BE OK, and I will continue to climb back up on that road to healing because I will CONTINUE to work hard on myself.

It is comforting for me to know that I have freinds here who will call encouragement to me when I fall off the road, or fall down and skin my knee or bust my lip, and Know that I will do the same for them. That’s why I keep coming here, why I read as much as I can, why I CARE.

Empowering ourselves and using that power to help others is what LF is about. NONE of us is ALONE and that is a powerful feeling. Seeing the people who come here that are really DOWN and then seeing them start too feel more powerful because we reach out to them and say WELCOME, YOU ARE NOT ALONE makes ME feel my own power more, because when

“a burden is shared, it is halved, and when a joy is shared IT IS DOUBLED.”

We share each other’s burdens and we share each other’s joys though we have never met face to face, and probably never will. That doesn’t matter, what matters is none of us is ALONE in carrying our burdens, and not alone in sharing our joys either.

TOWANDA TO US!!!!!

2Behappy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read here.
Then Decide.

I agree, the reversal of your position is stunning.

After 12 years with a man, it has suddenly dawned on me that he is a sociopath. We have had domestic violence issues and separated, but would reconcile after many promises were made, etc. It would always go downhill fast, but I stayed because I really loved him and I labored under the illusion that it would “work out”. It didn’t.

But there were other things. Some I didn’t know about until recently, like the hook up sites he was on and the daughter of his best friend, a dominatrix. He would tell me she was like a “niece” and he would drive 4 hrs away to visit her. I discovered that he was giving her tons of $$, and that they were role playing. He would actually come home with his wrists and ankles bleeding from being bound, and marks on his back from being whipped. He would say he bumped himself, etc. This is a 67 yr old man who takes medication to thin his blood. He bruises easily and he would have finger print marks on his upper arms. God only knows what they were doing, but he is hooked on it big time. He won’t talk to me about it, soo I don’t know the whole truth. I do believe they have included other women, and possibly men, in their “get togethers”. They have taken this to a whole other level, and she actually blogs about it. I would say she is a sociopath too. I think he has become a sex addict. I can’t help him. I am appalled at all of it and cannot understand how I got sucked into this.

Then there is the blaming me for everything, and turning me into almost a servant. I always knew something was off kilter, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. After reconciling, he will begin to get real cold and he has an legion of friends that he talks to about me and uses against me. He has them all convinced that I am some psycho bitch he has to deal with when it’s really him. He lets bills go like the mortgage and won’t pay utilities. I lost my job so he was paying everything and I assumed he was doing it. But then late notices from the gas company appear on the front door, etc. He is so irresponsible. He’s giving this dominatrix money carte blanche but not paying for the basic necessities.

He goes to church every Sunday, and they think he’s a great guy. He has everyone fooled. He is Jekyll and Hyde. I read that sociopath’s sometimes take on the personality of the person they get involved with sexually, and he has certainly done that with this woman. She is 43 yrs old and a phone sex operator. She does the whole femdom thing on the side. He told me she was a waitress, but I discovered the truth when he invited me to visit her with him. I was mortified and didn’t want him to go back, but that didn’t happen. While there, she had the gall to tell me that I had “deserved and asked for” an injury I received during an altercation with my ex. I was livid, and let’s just say the visit did not go well.

I ended up having to leave my home again because he wouldn’t. He always has to win. Always.

There’s so much more. I think it would take a book to write it all. Thank God for sites like this so I can know I’m not crazy (which he tries to make me think). God bless.

Jesus cheaters/perverts are the lowest of the low! They have the audacity to sit in churches- as if nothing ever happened. It’s their job to cheat on you…and abuse you….AND it’s your job to forgive them! All the while they look like “nice church goers” on the outside. Creepy as it gets!!!

Raintree26,
Hello and welcome! So glad you found this sight!It has been so educational and supportive to all of us!

So sorry to hear your story.Sociopaths may differ in some respects,but as you’ll see by reading the many posts here,they’re more similar than different.

I’ve never told my story all at once;often it is too much to handle emotionally.

Reading these stories reminds me again how selfish and sick these men are. The blaming others, crazy making and lies remind me all so well of my husband. It has been 6 months since he left and discarded me but I still sometimes blame myself. I am definetely improving. Please make sure that you will never except any blame at all. I am slowly healing from this abuse after 20 years of it. Once you are not in that situation anymore and broke of all of contact with him you will realize that actually he is absolutely nothing. Everything that comes out of their mouth is worthless. Good luck to you.

I met an amazing man about 5 months ago. I was a bit surprised with how quickly he professed his love and feelings for me early on. The experience was very flattering and exciting, but overall “intense” would describe it best. I have yet to meet one friend, which I thought was odd.. but of course there was explanations. I let it go even though I thought it was odd. Although some aspects were a bit unusual, but overall I’ve been happy. Past and present are used because Im still “in it”. Recently he attended a work party of mine, and shortly after we returned I found out he had gotten a coworkers number and began texting her immediately to meet up, in secret. I was informed of all of it pretty quickly, understandably so! It was my work party! A cheater was the LAST thing I would have accused him to be; fidelity seemed of high importance to him. Never in my wildest dreams.. especially surrounded by people close to me. I feel as if I don’t know this man at all. Since the incident, he’s been calling and texting relentlessly… even wrote my parents a lengthy letter of explanation. His reasoning for doing it was an impressive story… teaching my gossipy coworker a lesson by framing her. Making it seem as if SHE was trying to lure him. Come on… ever since the incident, I can’t stop reading about sociopaths and thinking his behavior is textbook. No friends, over expression of “emotion”, lying .. I’ve caught him in so many lies since.. my gut keeps leading me to this site.. but my head can’t stop trying to understand why someone would go through the trouble to demonstrate such love and commitment, only to throw it away in such a risky way. Reading about how sociopaths enjoy lying for the sake of lying and seeing how much they can get away with really hits home.

Ann, I went through the exact same thing with the one I dated for 3 months. It took me all of 3 months to figure it out, but it was devastating nonetheless. I once went on a camping trip and came home to 25 voicemails from him professing his love for me. All the while, he was married and lying about it. He had also gone behind my back and contacted several other women from the website where we met. I didn’t find this out till much later. Drop him as quickly as you can. I guarantee that what you are seeing is only the tip of the iceberg. It’s hard to understand how they can woo you as they do but lie and cheat so easily. It’s not a normal game that an insensitive jerk plays. It’s much more sinister and something that they will never changed. Get out now before you get hooked in further. Trust me on this.

BTW, when I turned mine into the army for adultery, he denied that we were more than casual friends. Fortunately for me, I had the 25 voicemails to prove otherwise. (And that’s how you bring down a sociopath!)

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I did finally break it off officially and blocked him. The calls and texts nonstop were just draining me, and really messing with my head. Of course we want them to magically turn into that perfect person we thought they were, but when the masks slips it’s hard to forget. I was almost to the point of giving it another try, but I caught him in one last lie and decided to cut it off. I received a text later from his mother saying he had left my things by my car… “my things” included every gift I bought for him, every note, shampoo and conditioner, produce I had left in the fridge, Christmas gifts from my parents, even a receipt for a chair he bought me months ago. That is not normal… so I toss it all in my car, so I’m not blocking my neighbors space and head to work. Tonight I became curious about the site we met on.. logged on.. sure enough, I have a smiley face message from him and his profile is updated. Ready for next one already…. if only they had warnings. 😕

Good job for holding that slime ball accountable! Will doing the same….if I run into any like that!

I heard that one before! Dancing Dick practically said her vagina chased him down the street and jumped on him! They believe the own lies….so arguing with them when you find the truth- is futile.

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